Conference 7.286::digital

    
    	(Age + 5) + (Service + 5) equal to or greater than X.  (Don't know 
    	what X is.) 
    
    	I've heard that it will not include a salary package.
    	

    Does anyone know when this will be decided?  I feel management has the
    responsibility to let us know as soon as possible so we can get on with
    our plans!  
    Sick of rumors.........   
    
    Alan

    
    
    re. -.1 X = 75 OR 80 depending whomis the rumor moderator for the day.
    
    Any word on when it is supposed to come down --- or if ever?  
    (I make the 75 number by a couple)

    Hi,
      Heard on channel 5 today that Digital was going to announce the
    "new restructuring of Digital" and also announce the Q3 results.
    
    Wouldn't it be nice if we, the employees of Digital, got to hear this
    information first????  They only seem to inform you of the good news
    and the bad news you get to hear from the Boston Globe.
    
    Left in the dark,
        nancy
    
    

    Digital will not be announcing the Q3 (jan,feb,mar) results until sometime
    mid-April.

    yeah - it seems a bit early to announce Q3 results :^)

    re: nancy  Did they say when?
    
    
    Mark
    

Re: a few back -- no salary plan for early retirement

Anyone 55 years old with 10 years in the company is already eligible for 
immediate retirement, including an immediate annuity. So any early retirement
plan, if such comes to pass, must include some increased benefits, over and 
above what you are already vested for.

Bruce

    re -1 --- that's what the 5-5 is all about.  I.e., of you're 50 or
    above, you automatically appear to be at least 55, and then the
    extra five years added to your years of service is the sweetener.
    
    This is a cheapie package though compared to many others.  More
    typical is 6-6-6.  Add six years to age, six years to longevity and
    six-months of pay as a sort of bronze handshake.
    
    I predict that just a 5-5 will not excite a lot of people.  For
    instance, I would love to take such an opportunity, but I don't
    believe a 5-5 will be good enough.  Guess I'll wait and see.
    

    You might also want to consider that there will be some sort of minimum
    age limit (50 is often heard).  Thus, if you were 50 and added 5 years
    to your age, you would be *eligible* to retire.  This feature  will 
    eliminate from contention many younger folks with lots of service.  If
    you are already 55 or older, you can add 5 years to your service and
    increase your benefits.  It's not simply a matter of meeting the "magic 
    number", but also satisfying regular eligibility rules.  Also, as we hear 
    various rumors, you add 5 to your age *OR* 5 to your service, but not 
    both.

I was forwarded two memo's a couple of weeks ago that discussed Early Ret.

The first memo was dated 21-Jan-1992, and was entitled Z's Talk. The memo
stated that it was a summary of a meeting that "Z" had held recently. It
stated that "there is a plan(s) being reviewed" and an "answer will be
forthcoming... no later than mid February."

The second memo was dated 23-Jan-1992, and was entitled J.S. Eng Mtg. The
memo stated that an "early retirement proposal was going before the board."
   "min age is 50"
   "will add 5 years to age and service"
   "retroactive"

There was no information in either memo that either affirmed OR denied that
the early retirement proposal would or would not include the current or any
other package.

I believe that the "Z's Talk" memo should be taken to mean that the decision
will be announced within the next couple of weeks. Like .8, my belief is that
if an early retirement is approved, it will include some enticements for
people to take advantage of it. As an example, nobody between the ages of
55 - 65 will take it if there aren't any incentives... they already are
eligible to retire. 

    RE; last few -- The most common cmbination I have heard is  5-5-2 where
    you add 5 to age, add 5 to service, total = 75/80 and get 2 years pay,
    BUT, the way things are going it probably will end up being 2 weeks for 
    us common folk 8*)

    re: 1756.7
    
    All they said was Digital was going to announce it today... thanks for
    the messages!
    
    They did mention results, could have sworn they said Q3.  
    
    Carry on.....
    
           nancy
    

    I called Employee Compensation Benefits in MRO-2 yesterday to have 
    them figure out how much $ I have if I take the lump sum from my
    pension. She has been bombarded with calls asking for the same
    information. She has also heard all the rumors and spoke to her
    Manager to at least give her an early warning when it will be
    announced. They told her "When we know, we will tell you". I forgot
    to have her figure it with 5 extra years added on to my age. Her line
    has been busy ever since.

    re .8
    
    If your 50 and been with the company seven years...
    
    All employees are fully vested at seven years as of a couple of years
    ago.
    
    Tom
    

    I suppose it's just possible the Q3 "thing" might be a forecast.
    But, I don't know whay we would want to turn off the investment
    community so soon.

 >>> RE; .12-- The most common combination I have heard is  5-5-2 where
     you add 5 to age, add 5 to service, total = 75/80 and get 2 years pay,

     Anything much less that this is not going to get much of a response.

     Most people I know (including myself) in the age bracket (+ service)
     they are targeting need to be put in a position that allows them to wipe 
     the slate clean ie; pay off the mortgage(s), tuitions, car, etc. etc.
     before they can seriously consider the offer.  

     Under normal circumstances (retiring at age 62 - 65) these things would
     be paid off by then. I suspect that's how most of the older folk would 
     like to leave here (given a choice).

    As far as quarterly results, could they have meant IBM?
    I know their fiscal year is skewed with ours, not sure
    when it is though...
    
    Mark

    IBM is skewed by 6 mos from ours. Sometime in January IBM announced its
    annuals for the fiscal year ending DEC 31. They would be announcing
    quarterly results in April, July, Oct, January (like us)

    If it's good enough, I can be packed in 20 minutes.....OK, 15.  But
    seriously, for me, the third number's gotta be pretty good or I
    couldn't do it.  HP just went through this out here in CX, and they
    threw in a year's pay as sweetener.  Had so many people take it, they
    had to start hiring!

    Per Ross Brown, US Human Resources, the early retirement will be
    announced by Valentine's Day.  This was at our FY92 Midyear Business
    Meeting.  No details to speak of.

There are many employess in the 50 plus age bracket with many years of service.

The bind the company is in, so far as early retirmement goes, is that if they
make it too attractive, they will lose a lot of folks at an expensive price, 
but if they don't make it attractive enough nobody will take it. My bet is
that they will tend toward the less attractive end of this spectrum. It favors
those who already have lots of assets, have paid off mortgages and kid's 
tuition, and/or have another job waiting in the wings.


Oh, well -- guess I gotta work for another 8 or 10 years.

Bruce 

        A person can be 64 and not be eligible for retirement. My
      feeling is that an early retirement plan will appeal to those folks.
    
      For a person, who is less than 65 years of age, to be a Digital retiree
      they must have at least 10 years of service with the company.
      The key to early retirement is extended medical benefits. A person
      who retires at 64 with less than 10 years of service is not a Digital
      retiree and has no medical benefits from the company.
    
                                                     

    re: 1756.17
    
    According to the Dow Jones News Service, there was no news regarding a
    re-organization at Digital today.

    
    I heard that the early retirement proposal will be discussed at the 
    Board of Director meeting next Tuesday.  I also heard that the money
    for the early retirement (1.5 billion? ) has been approved by the
    board at an earlier meeting.  I am waiting/counting for the actual
    benefit.  So far I have no idea what the sweetner is.
    
    I will be retireing this November (92) anyway, and hope I will not be
    excluded from the benefit.
    
    jean

    $1.5 Billion
    
    For 5,000 people that would be $300,000 per person as a "sweetner".

    What hasn't been asked or answered in any of the various notes entries
    is whether or not the years added to the (age + service) equation add
    to the retirement pay computation, or if it's just to determine your
    eligibility to take the "package."  Any thoughts, rumors, or reasonably
    informed info on this?
    

    
    
    1756.15 
    
    Your fully vested with Digital at 5 years. The 5 or 7 year vesting
    depends on the company. It used to be 10 years, but that changed a
    couple of years ago. Can't remember when exactly.
    
    Mark

    .28
    
      If, as has been rumored, the ER plan is only for those over 50, 
      then adding 5 years to their *age* would enable them to take early 
      retirement, since one has to be at least 55 to retire early.
    
      Adding 5 years to your *service* would increase your retirement
      benefits by virtue of having longer service.
    
      So, if one were 53, with 12 years of service, and accepted the 
      plan, for early retirement purposes he/she would qualify as a 58
      year old with 17 years service.  (Retiring at age 55 grants a 50%
      benefit, retiring at 58 grants a 65% benefit.
    )
    

    Early out as explained in the southeastern area of the US was as
    follows:
    	Age + years of service + 10 = 80, this would make you eligible
    for the early out but, it is very hazy as to what the "topping" would
    be to get the "elder ones" to bite..............
    regards
    John

    -.1 mentions a 50% benefit at age 55 and a 65% benefit at age 58.
    
    Would you know how this works out other ages, say: 60, 62, 64?
    
    

    Ref .31--Does that mean that the 55 year old with 10 years of service
    (already elgible for early retirement) wouldn't be elgible for the
    "Special" early out ? (55 + 10 + 10 =75)??
    Ron

    I just heard that 5-5-2 just passed...
    
    This is a rumour and I do not attest to it's authenticity, I don't
    even want to say that it comes from reliable sources.
    
    And I did not hear if the offer is across the board or selected.

 >>>   CALS::DIMANCESCO  -< Percentages ? >-

 >>>   RE; ... 50% benefit at age 55 and a 65% benefit at age 58.

 >>>   Would you know how this works out other ages, say: 60, 62, 64?
    

        Unless they changed it, the Benefit Book says:

        @ age 65 = 100% of benefit payable
              64 = 93.3
              63 = 86.7
              62 = 80.0
              61 = 73.3
              60 = 66.7
              59 = 63.3
              58 = 60.0
              57 = 56.7
              56 = 53.3
              55 = 50.0

    No one has addressed the issue of the payable benefit.  Does anyone
    know how that is calculated?  I once heard it was based on something
    like the average of five years' salary taken at a set point in time
    (the set point in time moved at periodic intervals).  I would be
    curious how this calculation is actually done....if it was really that
    easy, we would all be able to do it ourselves instead of asking
    Personnel.
    
    Judy 

     

    Two more questions that come to mind are::

    Is the "sweetener" to be paid as a lump sum up front or is it to be
    spread over a period of time?
     
    When do the "payable benefits start? Do they start immediately
    regardless of actual age or is there a waiting period of X days, weeks
    months, like unemployment, or if the "retiree" is less than 55 calendar 
    years old, do the benefits start only after calendar age equals 55?

    If by payable benefit you mean the actual amount of money a retiree
    would earn
    
    that too is stated in our annual benefits book pg 8.16ff
    
    The standard formula for all
    employee
                                  This formula is used to calculate your
                                  pension benefit, regardless of your hire
                                  date. If its result yields your highest
                                  monthly pension payment, then this
                                  formula will determin your pension.  An
                                  example of how this formula appl.ies is
                                  shown on the following page.
                                  
                                  	Standard Formual
                                  .
                                  o determine your fiscal base salary for
                                    each year of benefit service.
                                  o replace every year's fiscal base salary
                                    on or before 1989 with the average
                                    fiscal year's  base salary for the
                                    years 1985 through 1989
                                  o Multiply each year's new total by 1.5%
                                    to get your benefit for each year of
                                    service
                                  o Totl the Benefit per year column to get
                                    your annual pension benefit. Dividing
                                    this number by 12 gives your monthly
                                    pension benefit, payable at age 65
                                  

    Re .34    less'n I'm wrong, I pretty sure an early retirement plan like
    the ones most of industry uses cannot be "selective".  I believe that
    by law they have to be open to everyone who qualifies, period.  This is
    why DEC has been reluctant to implement such a plan.  Almost without
    exception they end up over-subscribed, and there is nothing they can
    do about it.
    
    Seems to be a lot of confusion about who is qualified normally.  You
    must have five years service to be fully vested.  You could reach that
    exalted state at 25 or less.  All it really means is that 30 years
    later when you have worked for seven more different companies, you
    can always apply to DEC for a small pension at age 55.  
    
    The "sweetener" programs we are talking about are intended to artifici-
    ally raise your age to at least 55 in order to initially qualify you.
    
    I'm assuming that whatever formula they eventually arrive at, the lump
    sum option will be available.  That could be a nice chuck of change...
    for some of us it could be in the 300K range.
    
    Can't wait.....but expecting to be disappointed.
    
    P.S.  Smith-Barney is forecasting even worse losses for DEC in Q3 (and
    Smith seems to agree).  For that reason, I believe early retirement
    will be approved...and implemented quickly (well, quickly for Digital)
                               

    re: do it or get off the pot
    
    DEConstipation? 
    
    :^)
    
    Mark

    p.s.

    I just computed my retirement benefit. If I were to leave the company
    now after 20 years service, than at age 65 my retirement benefit works
    out to be about 27% of my current salary. 
    At age 55 (next year), it would be about 13.5% of my current salary.

    Based on the rumors, If I were to leave the company now after 20 years
    service, than at age 60 my retirement benefit works out to be about
    33% of my current salary. 
    At age 54 (now), it would be about 22% of my current salary.

    				herb

    
    	But, Herb, the kicker is if they were to give you a 2 year
    	salary package now.  (That would be money in the bank/mutual
    	fund/whatever, now.)  Five years from now, this package is
    	not likely to be available.  It is unlikely that I could save
    	save 2 years salary in the next 5 years.
    
    	Said differently...  say for ease/convenience that the salary
    	package (NOT the retirement lump sum) gave you a distribution
    	of $100,000.  That's $100,000 for you to put in the bank, right
    	now.  Five years (hell, maybe next year) it's unlikely that the
    	offer would still be there.  5 years from now your retirement 
    	lump sum may be bigger, but your bank account won't be as big.
    
    	'Least that's what's running through my head.
    
    	The big, unanwered question is... what must the number be? 70?
    	75? 80?
     

    Not that it will make much difference, but (to the best of my
    knowledge) the yearly income for calculating pension is based
    on our fiscal year  eg for FY 1990
    
    July 1 1989 - review date   =  x weeks at salary 1     }
    review date to June 30 1990 =  y weeks at new salary   }  = 1 fiscal year
    
    Now go back and find actual year start / end dates, pay slips, review
    paper work and a calculator with good batteries.
    
    BTW, if this is wrong PLEASE, somebody tell me.   Thanks. 

    From what I'm reading,it sounds like if 5-5-2 goes through,people like
    me (45 years old and 25 years at Digital) who would take it will be
    getting the DECshaft!
    
    Ken

    <will be getting the DECshaft>
    
    how, why?

    
     So you get 2 years pay. I'm sure the taxman is gona get a real big
    chunk. 
    
     Any tax experts out there know how it will most likely handled?
    
    

    re:-1
    
    Because it sounds like even though my numbers add up to 80,I can still
    not take it because I'm not 50. (and,if this plan is approved,it's
    unlikely to still be around when I *am* 50)
    
    Ken

    aha,
    I understand
    thnx

    Re .47......here's what you can do with a lump-sum disbursement, VERY
    ROUGHLY.
    
        - You have 60 days within which time you need do nothing (except
          fight off the "investment councilors".
    
        - If you put it into some form of long-term investment, you only
          need pay the taxes as you start drawing your annuity payment.
    
        - ...or you can just pay the taxes, which can be averaged over
          five years. *
    
          (* I'm not completely sure of the cut-off date but if you were
           50 years old PRIOR to 1 July 1986 (I think that's the date) you
           can average the taxes over ten years.)
    
        - All this from a retirement seminar DEC held here last year.
    
    The guy also was a strong proponent of taking the lump sum option.  I
    tend to agree with him as I don't really trust who will have their
    sticky fingers in the pie 10-15 years from now.  Plus, even if you
    take the lump sum, you still get the medical bennies just as if you
    were taking a monthly payment.
    
          five years*             

    I was wondering when you had to be 50? Can you be 50 this year and
    qualify for ER, or is the cutoff date 31-DEC-1991?

    you _do_ realize don't you, that it is a hypothetical 'early retirement
    plan' that is being bruited about?
    
    
    				herb

    Another advantage of taking the lump sum from the pension is you can
    leave it to anyone you want while it is in an IRA. If (God forbid) both
    you and your wife pass away after 2 years into retirement, all that
    money is kept by Dec.
    
    

    Did anyone read about the U.S. West early retirement plan in the paper
    last week.  If DEC was really serous about a retirement plan to get rid
    of people over 50, this is the one.  Basicly what it does is give you
    your monthy retirement you would receive at 65 and add $290 a month to
    it till you were 62.  This averages out to about $920 a month till you
    are 62 and then drops the $290 a month.

    re: .54
    >This averages out to 920/month...
    Your monthly pension depends on your years of service, so it
    will be different for each person.
    
    Also this sounds like NO incentive at all for people between 62-64.
    

    Yeh, I thought that was one of the cheapest programs I had ever seen!
    
    I think the case probably is that with U.S. West, the corporation
    matches 401K contributions.  For A LOT of U.S. firms, the matching
    401K thing is really the major retirement bennie.  Pensions are
    usually only supplemental.
    
    I remember when we had the retirement seminar here last the year, the
    guy giving it couldn't seem to get over the fact that DEC did not match
    our contributions.  He said that was very, very common in other firms.
    
    Just another example of how we are sliding back in our benefit
    offerings.

    re: 24
    
    Medical benefits are for life - after retirement - even at age 55.
    A DEC friend of mine retired at age 55 and definitely has her medical
    benefits for life.
    
    T 

    Re: Medical benefits
    
    But what does one pay for them?  Is the same amount that you
    pay when you are employed?
    
    And life insurance.  Do you maintain the same benefit for the
    same cost?
    
    d

    As of now medical benefits are free for *Digital* retirees and there is
    a cost if the retiree is covering someone else. Benefits are for life
    for *Digital* retirees. Unless you meet the criteria of a *Digital*
    retiree you have no medical coverage from the company when you retiree.

    "Medical benefits are for life..."
    
    I'm pretty sure that Digital medical coverage stops at 65 and Medicade
    takes over.
    
    

re .60:

>    I'm pretty sure that Digital medical coverage stops at 65 and Medicade
>    takes over.
    
That's Medicare.

    No -
      Medicade is a popular new drink in retirement communities.
    
    :-)
    

    It was explained to me last week that the cost is about $78 per month
    for Dec's best medical plan (Plan 1 or 2?) They now have an option to
    take an HMO for less money per month. And it is only until you and your
    wife reach 65. Also a small charge for the dental plan. I just received
    my print out of what I have for a lump sum in the Pension plan. Not
    as much as has been mentioned a few back. But I have only been with Dec
    for 11 years.

    
    
	From Page 1.3 of the <<1990>> "Retiree Benefits Book"
    	(so .63's comments may be more correct):

>	As long as you meet the age and service conditions for
>	retirement and you had medical coverage as an employee,
>	you are automatically eligible to be covered under the
>	Digital retiree Medical Plan.  At the present time, this 
>	coverage is provided to you at no cost.  This coverage 
>	ensures that youhave immediate protection against the 
>	high cost of medical expenses.

	Same for Dental

	Basic Life Ins provided = $3000.
	 (Want more?  Contact John Hancock within 31 days of leaving) 

	Also continued usage of:
	 Employee Purchase Program 
	 DCU
	 MetPay
	 Matching Gift Program
	 Child Care Resource/Referral Program 

    
    The Medical Coverage (Digital Retiree Medical Plan) for retiree is $0
    according to the 1990 Rate Sheet (part of the retirement package from
    personnel).  However, for the family coverage there is a big
    difference depending on the age of your spouse:
    
                Single Coverage          Family Coverage
                                     Spouse 65       Spouse < 65
                                    (with Medicare)  (without Medicare)
    
    		$0.                  $8.5 per month      $54.17 per month
    
    
    jean

    
    Any news about the Board of Director meeting?  How do we know the
    result?  Stock is up 3 point today?  What does that mean?
    
    I sure hope to hear the news here before I read it from the Boston
    Globe.
    

    I wouldn't elect an HMO when I retire....
    
       1992 rates for retirees are;           single      family    
                                             coverage    coverage
           * Digital Retiree Medical Plan        0          73.02
           *  " (dependent medicare eligible     0          10.50
                       age 65)
           * Digital Dental Plan                 0           9.75
           * " (dependent medicare eligible      0           4.85
                      age 65)
    
       Retiree rates for HMO's range from 25.70 per month (Fallon) to 80.43
    per month (Tufts). When you retire you are locked in to your decision
    unless you choose an HMO and move out of their service area. At age 65
    Medicare becomes your primary coverage and the coverage you choose (DEC
    Retiree Plan or an HMO) becomes your secondary coverage. Your secondary
    coverage is used to pick up eligible costs that Medicare doesn't pay
    for. With the Digital Retiree plan your coverage is much better and it
    allows you choices (where to go, who to see) where an HMO limits you
    to where you can go and who you can see. Also, there are a lot of
    expenses that both Medicare and HMO's will not pay for and the DEC plan
    does.
                       age 65)
           

    Boy, these HMO/Medical Plan discussions sure make me glad we do it
    through the government.
    
    
    Don (in Canada)
    

    A few back, someone mentioned a $750 deductable with Digital plan 2.
    Can someone verify that? This is real high.

    Ignore that blather.  I wish we had the Canadian system here.

    RE: 70
    
    From your comments, it doesn't seem that you know too much about the
    Canadian system--it's held in very high esteem.

    He probably doesn't want to know anything else about the system. He
    knows it is run by the Canadian government. That perforce makes it BAD
    in the eyes of American conservatives.

    Excuse my ignorance but exactly *who* holds the Canadian system in such
    high regard?
    
    Ken

    re - .69
              For single coverage the deductible is $250 and for a family
    of three or more the deductible is $750.
    
    re - Canadian system
         I like the idea of having all people covered by health insurance,
    but I don't like the idea of waiting 3 months for a hospital bed
    (unless emergency) as in Canada. I don't like the idea of having small
    businesses forced to pay large expenses for health care (if this
    happened in the US many businesses would fold). I don't beleive Canada
    has the quality of doctors we have in the US otherwise why would so
    many people cross the border into the US for major operations? Last
    time I heard the Canadian system was almost bankrupt... If we (US) adapted 
    the Canadian model how many doctors would stay in this country knowing that
    their fee is limited to what the government wants to pay them? 
       I say give all Americans the coverage President Bush and the other
    hacks in Washington have. If its good enough for them it should be good
    enough for all of us....
        

    He couldn't conceivably be associated with any of the insurance
    companies that were put out of business in Canada??  85% of Canadians
    are supportive of the system....and that is absolutely outstanding
    for any government program, anywhere.
    
    Maybe in another hundred years we'll reach that level of civilization.

    
    I'd settle for less.
    
    Many of the services offered by family practitioners could be dealt
    with by someone with far less experience.  The requirement that only a
    doctor can write a prescription for an antibiotic to treat a sinus
    infection is absurd.
    
    As well, a national program could be designed to shut out the need for
    malpractice insurance and the questionable tests doctors request to
    prevent litigation.
    
    Course it would be very sad to penalize the lawyers and insurance
    companies for the inadequacies of our society.
    
    Ken :-)
    

re: .70
    > Not to mention about the famous waste, waiting,
    > and inefficiency typical problems for a national medical program. 
...unlike the incredibly efficient, non-wasteful, no-wait system
in place in the States.  Not!

Let us also remember that just about *everyone* in Canada has
access to(relatively reasonable) health care.  What is the 
current percentage of access in this country?  Personally,
I'd be willing to give up access to immediate elective surgery, 
if it meant a poor woman with a high-risk pregnancy actually got
the prenatal care she needed, rather than the platitudes of the
Free Marketeers.


Bobbi_who_worked_for_U.S._medical_institutions_for_10_years

    excuse me!  Is this note for early retirement or a discussion on the 
    merits of Medical insurance.  I was just curious!  
    My oh my we can sure get carried away with each comment cant we.  Oh I
    guess its because we all work for DEC!  Just a friendly comment.
    Oh, to get back to the original subject.......  I wonder if we will
    hear the news of early retirement by Valentines day.
    
    Happy valentines, you'all.  Hope it will be happy for us over the hill
    folks..... (now I don't want any comments of how old is that!)
    
    Cheers
    
    Alan

    Regarding waste and inefficiencies, I heard some interesting
    comparisons on NPR news last week.  For an employee health plan for a
    small company (small = 25 employees or less), 25 cents of every dollar
    went to administrative costs.  This was compared to 2 cents on the dollar
    for Medicare.
    
    There are economies of scale.
    
    Larry

    
    
    		Relative to the entitled topic...  Early Retirement.
    
    		It's sure been quiet relative to the eddies of rumor
    		swirling around here last week.  Hope that's a good
    		sign.
    
    	        

    	Whether it is a good sign or bad depends on the people you
    	talk to.
    
    	Some people want an early retirement program in place.
    
    	Others see it as one more slip down the slippery slope for
    	DEC.

    
    
    	If DEC wants to eliminate "heads", then asking for volunteers is
    	smart move.   They've never done that before.  Might'a saved the
    	jobs of a few that wanted to stay.
    
    

    re -1
    I think TFSO1 was voluntary, and it was a lot better in terms of 
    the monetary benefit compared to subsequent packages. There were
    also jobs available at that time, so someone who had taken TFSO1
    had a good chance of catching on with another company. They didn't
    get the numbers then but maybe they will now, who knows ?

    >>I think TFSO1 was voluntary
    
    It was voluntary if it was offered to you. There has yet to be a dinner
    gong approach to a "package." 
    
    John H.

    Having family both in Canada and the states...Oh..this isn't the
    healthcare debate note?
    
    Please stick to the subject of this topic.  (But don't ask me what it
    is, because I don't remember).
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL

    Just got the latest early out rumor very reliable. They are throwing in
    a lifetime pass to Disneyworld, a five year supply of Geritol, two
    Lawrence Welk videos and, an autographed picture of Don Ho.
    
    Ron.

    re.: .89
    
    If that's the best they can do, I don't believe they'll entice the 
    number of early outers they reportedly need (+5K). People need to
    substantially reduce their debt, especially mortgage, before they
    "retire". 50% of annual salary wouldn't do it for me. If this turns
    out to be *the* actual offer, I predict few will take it, compared to
    a 5-5-200% annual salary pkg.
    
    /Bob

    
    re.90
    
                 Humor has its own note file.
    
                 Health Ins. is in note ?
    
                  Canada vs. U.S.A. is in note ?
    
    54 and I love Disneyworld, drink o.j., watch M.T.V., photo...Cher
    please.
    
    
                     Sorry I will not debate/bash on.
    
    Regards .0

re: 1756.88                 Early Retirement ?????                     88 of 88
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Having family both in Canada and the states...Oh..this isn't the
>    healthcare debate note?

Hi,
Just my .02USCents worth ...

Would it be germain, if some DECcies were planning to retire to Canada
with their early retirment package ?

Alternate comment:
On the US News yesterday were a few comments about Canadas' Health Care
system, which (according to the news people) is in deep financial trouble;
partly due to th loss of some 300,000 jobs in Canada this past year (less 
income); and partly due to the lowered tariffs, many  Canadians are now shopping
in the US (crossing the border); just as many US residents are now crossing to
Mexico.

As other have pointed out .. any National Healthcare System has to be paid
for "by someone" ... If any of you caught the (what 20/20 ?) program of the
number of pregant  Mexican mothers have been crossing into Texas to have their
baby  there; often at the expense of the local cities; and as the babies
mature (in Mexico)l they become eligible (as any other US Citizen) for all the
beneifits currently avialable to all other US Citizens (Medicare, Aid-to-Dependent
Children, Food Stamps ...) ... actually the US Does have a defacto Government
Health Care. Its just that its beyond the reach of people who work for a living.

Bob Early
 (what goes round comes round)

    Could I add my voice to those who have asked that this note be used to
    discuss, report, speculate on a possible early retirement plan, as its
    title leads one to suspect will be the case?
    
    The general Healthcare issues are *very* interesting, and deserve a separate
    notes file. Perhaps there is one.
    
    Bruce 

    I don't know if this really means anything or if the person is just one
    of those who happen to be able to keep a secret. Because of the rampant
    rumors and also out of personal curiosity I decided to find out what my
    retirement and pension benefits would be. Do we get one check or does
    my wife get one and I get another based on survivors benefit, how much
    do I get, when does it start, etc., etc., etc.?????? Well during the
    course of my conversation with a retirement/pension counselor this
    person very carefully avoided any mention of an early retirement plan
    and at one point when I gave my natural age and combined that with the
    5 adder the person commented that "Digital doesn't retire any one under 55
    years old". 
    
    Oh woe is me. I may actually have to continue working for a few more
    years. It was a nice dream while it lasted.

    .85 re. TSFO1
    
    It may have been voluntary, but some people who volunteered were
    turned down.
    
    Carole

    re.95  the REAL steve,
    
    Real steve,
    I would guess that that any person in that position is ordered at
    *gunpoint* *8) to make NO reference or inferrence to any future 
    announcement in that topic. I think your experience is what is to be
    expected until/if a formal announcement is made. Don't panic yet!
    
    Mike

  I think I got this ER thing figured out.  They keep all us old duffers
  on this emotional roller coaster for 2+ years by letting us think that 
  there might be an ER.  Some can't take the stress and leave mumbling to 
  themselves and can now be found wandering the malls.

   Half of those who remain will probably keel over from the anxiety and the 
   strain on the old ticker.  The insurance takes care of them by paying off 
   their families who end up with more money then they know what to do with.  
   We're probably all worth more dead then alive. 

   For those of us who remain we get to split the pot ;^).  Could be a very
   attractive ER package for the survivors and great publicity for DEC.

    =Bob  Whose_breathing_is_becoming_very_erratic + +
                                                    *
                                                   /^\

    
    
    	Why doesn't somebody leak it to the Globe that DEC is soon to
    	announce a ER package?  They'd call DEC, and then we could
    	find out from the papers, just like we always do.  
    
    	Or, we could call the oft-quoted "Digital Spokesperson" directly?
    
    	I'm with Walker (.98), I wanna hear something official yes/no,
    	up/down, whatever!  Let's get on with it! 
    
        

    Re last two (Hi, Bob)...I couldn't agree more.  Lost two hours sleep
    early this morning just wondering if DEC is ever gonna get off the pot.
    
    The way DEC approaches these things is incredible!!  There has got to
    be a special How_Can_We_DeLay_it_a_Bit_Longer_Committee..
    
    I don't know about the rest of you, but this crap has really impacted my
    ability to consistently do my job.  Why should I start a big proposal,
    etc., if I know (or think) I might be able to retire soon.
    
    My God, HP just did an early retirement program for several thousand
    people.  The whole thing, from announcement to departure took a
    maximum of two weeks.  We must have the same people who handle our
    new product introductions doing this early retirement thing.
    
    Oh well, maybe we'll hear something by June (you pick the year).
                                                             

    This early retirement rumor was started right here in DIGITAL notes
    Dick. Upper management may have a lot of shortcomings but I don't think
    one of their faults is a deliberate effort to prolong anything. I
    believe that they'll let us grunts know something,if anything,when
    they want if there's anyything to tell us. If,as some people are
    saying,no ER thing is in the works,KO will probably get tired of
    hearing about it and come right out and say it's a lie as he's done
    before.
    
    Ken

    The good news is...
    
    
    
       No one of authority has offered a REBUTTAL to these rumors!
    
    There is still hope!
    
    sorry about the suspense. Didn't mean to excite anybody 8*)

    re .101
    
    I started hearing these rumors at least a week before this base note
    appeared, and from sources that I felt to be very credible.  I suspect
    that the headwaters of the rumor have been identified and instructed
    to clam up, and that's why the rumor traffic has abated during the
    last week.  It's not Valentine's Day yet.

    No - No - No - No...this NEVER was a rumour.  Both Smith and Zereski
    categorically stated, in widely distributed internal memos, that
    an early retirement plan was on the BOD agenda......and that a deci-
    sion would be made by Mid February.
    
    

    re: Dick
    
    Bingo.  

    Until it's announced as a done deal, complete with numbers, I'd call it
    a rumor (or rumour).  

The Z-memo specifically stated that an answer would be given[one way or
the other] by "mid-February." Although nothing has been announced, I heard
from one source that the announcement won't come out until the 1st week
of March. Another source stated it would be announced Feb 14. In any event,
all the most recent rumors are consistent in eligibility and content.

    OK., Friday, February 14th. 1992 is finally here.
    
    When will it happen ?.
    WILL it happen ?.
    When will what happen ?.
    Will it be in Livewire ?.
    Will it be distributed covertly ?.
    Will it appear in 1756.137 ?,
    Or by a letter at your home address ?.
    Will your manager call you in, stop by your cubicle, send you mail ?.
    Will we hear more rumours, pseudo facts, pure fiction or NOTHING ?.
    Will you be able to sleep tonight, this weekend or even next week ?.
     
    
    TO BE CONTINUED....

    Hey, it's all in fun anyway, right?  Nobody would really want to
    voluntarily leave early when all the fun is just starting. ALPHA is
    close, the stock is bouncing back, my Health Care customers are on the
    verge of spending BIG on new clinical systems, IBM is confused and in
    disarray, OSF/1 is here, and best of all my Harley finally stopped 
    leaking all over my garage. As the song said, "The future is so bright
    I gotta wear shades."
    
    Fred   :^)
    
    Unless you live in an L.A. flood plain......
     

    Try me .....like I said, I'm not even bringing such a big sandwich
    to work anymore.  
    
    I have studied my stuff, and now believe I can be packed and at the
    front door in 12 minutes, 47 seconds.

    This is getting tooooo funny.
    
    Now I can croak.  I've heard everything.
    
    I just heard one that says its 5-5-1...magic # 80, and that the
    people eligible will be notified at home by MAIL. huh?.
    
    First Zereski says mid-February.  This is what probably bred
    the 14th as a magic date etc. lessee...28 days...the 14th.
    Yeah...that's it!  
    
    As if deadlines of any kind are regularly met with this sort
    of efficiency...
    
    Mark

    I just started one that's 10-10-4 no magic number (why wish small)
    See how long THAT takes to get around.
    Ron

    RE: -.1
    
    >>  mailed to those eligible by 3/2; decision required due by 4/31.
                                         ------------------------------
    
    

    Now what if....
    
       it is indeed 5+5+.5
    
           and very few people opt to take it...
    
     Is there a chance that they may later improve the plan and
     re-offer it a later date?
    
     Seems that it might make sense to take this approach.  Offer
     something less than ideal.  See who bites.  If it doesn't work,
     offer more.
    
    ??

    
    
    I would hope/think the last #, (kicker/sweetener) would be at 
    the 2 range. If not, I dont think they will have many takers.
    If they want to get rid of 22k heads this may not be enough.
    
    Dan

    Okay, here's the latest rumor from Magic Mountain..5 + 5, with .5 year
    of salary, plus x number of weeks determined by length of service (a la
    TFSO).  Let's see...last TFSO max was 77 weeks...add 26 weeks....plus 9
    weeks vacation on the books.....
    
    Hell of a nice vacation or job search time!
    
    Other piece of rumor is that the package IS being mailed to employee's
    homes today.
    
    

    RE: .114
    
    I hope your information is accurate.  At this point I cannot
    concentrate on working.  Like some others, I can be out of the door in
    10 minutes.  
    
    >>> letters mailed to home.. by 3/2...  I don't think it is a smart 
    thing / efficient  or fair to my manager.  How can the group do any
    real planning.  All this waiting is wasteful and really hurting DEC.
    
    Why can the whole thing be done efficiently and quickly.  This is not
    the same Digital that I joined 15 years ago.
    
    jean
    

    I don't necessarily agree with your comment about us being a very
    young company.  I don't have any numbers.....but I see a lot of grey
    heads everywhere I go.
    
    

re                     <<< Note 1756.110 by SWAM2::KELLER_FR >>>

>					     my Harley finally stopped 
>    leaking all over my garage. 


	Now  THAT  is totally unnatural,  there must be some kind of a 
cosmic misalignment or something for such a thing to happen.   They
can leak out 5 gallons a week and keep doing it for years after a 
quart was added  (-:

	R	{time to duck  (-: }

    Grey hair? Part of my beard is grey,so do I qualify for ER? Just
    wondering!
    
    Ken

     
    
    Sat by the mail box on my hog all weekend...............nothing....
    
    nothing that is but a big oil leak by the mail box.
    
    Never had that problem with my Honda.
    
    later............ easy (retired) rider
    
    Dan

    Just heard that someone from Maynard got the package Sat. in the mail.
    The early retirement package was 5-5-2. The offer is supposed to have
    been mailed Fri..... No mail today, so we wait, wait ,wait.

	Reply .128 says the package is here and it's  5-5-2.

	Could someone explain to me what 5-5-2 means?  I gather from 
	previous replies that it means

  	              yrs_of_service + 5 + age + 5 = x

	and if x is equal to or greater than some threshold (75? 80?) 
	then you get the package.

	If this interpretation is correct, why add 5 and 5, why not just
	add 10?  

	What does the 2 mean?  Does it mean 2 years' salary?  That sounds
	too good to be true.  Or does it mean 2 months' salary?  That's
	so stingy that no one would take the package.

	Now the real reason behind all these questions: I am 56 and will
	have 9 years of service by 22-Apr-1992.  Do I qualify?

	Jack_who_is_very_curious

      
    
    Re: .129
    
                    5 + 56 = 61
                    5 +  9 = 14
                            ----
                             75
    
    In your case its the _X_ factor that is your/our qualifier.
    
                 The 2., is yrs. pay.
    
    Sure hope its "TRUE"................    Dan

    
    
    	re .128
    
    	That would be interesting/etc, but I would think that many more
    	than just one person in Maynard go the same letter friday, and
    	we haven't heard from any of them.
    
    	I just think it is either 1) A lousey rumor that letters were sent
    	out friday or, 2) it's P*ss poor timing to send them out friday with
    	monday being a Federal holiday with no mail delivery.
    
    	

    
    
    re .128 got the package in the mail-----
    
    
    DID IT MENTION A BOTTOM LINE NATURAL AGE???? (ie 50, 45,) 
    
    (48+5)+(18+5)=76 + 2 (years pay)
       ^     ^
       |     |   age 
       |     +-------
       |   years w/DEC
       +-------------     (or is the other other ways round?)
    
    gone in less than 10 minutes. 8*)

    
    
    .132  There may not be any bottom line other than anyone over age
          50 as of <date> qualifies.  This makes some sense since one
    	  must be 55 or above to retire.  Adding 5 years to a minumum
    	  age of 50 would bring everyone into the 55 or greater range.
    
    	  

    Just my luck, I am leaving for Fla. Wed. and have stopped my mail until
    I get back next Wed. I will not log out of notes until late tomorrow
    afternoon just to hear if anyone else got a letter. But I agree with
    the "old Navy man" I'll believe it when I see it. :-)

    
    Why pick the number 5 to add to age and years of service?  It
    sounds very arbitrary.  Why not make it 10?  or something else?
    
    Carole  

    
    	.135  Because more people would qualify for more money each.
    	      (It would cost DEC a lot more.)
    

    
    I got my 15 year gift package in the mail Sat. almost sh*t.  Turns out
    I'm to be TSFO'd before the 15 year date. Damn shame I'll miss digital
    and the good times growing to where we are.
    
    Paddy

    re: 128
    
    Digital's retirment policy states that one can request to retire at age
    55 with 10 years service. It is a natural assumption that the min. age
    for this package will be 50, so 5 added to your age must get one to 55.
    The other 5 is to bring thoes under 10 years service up to the min.
    years of service to 10. It is also assumed that the 5 to your age, plus
    the 5 to your years of service must equal an arbritary no. such as 75.
    
    For purpose of determining retirement benefits, it is assumed that the 5
    to your age will determine at what age your benefits could start. For
    example, if one is 51 years old, the 5 + 51 = 56. At 56 years old one
    could retire and collect 53.3% of the calulated retirment amount
    starting now. The second 5 if added to your time in service would
    increase your time in service for determining the retirement amount,
    ie, if one currently has 14 years service and they add 5 years, then
    the retirement amount would be calicuated on 19 years, not 14.
    
    It is assumed that the 2 means two years of salary paid upon acceptance
    of the package. This is to entice people to take the package. Remember
    Uncle Sam will get a big piece (28% to 33%) of this since I am sure it
    will be paid in one chunk. At retirement, you also have the choice of
    taking your retirment amount now, delaying it until later or taking a
    cash settlement. There are a lot of options to consider.
    
    If one really wants to know more about your retirment plan and
    procudures, I suggest you go into VTX and read the chapter on
    Retirement in the Personnel Policy and Procedures.  I make the above
    assumptions from reading all 100+ pages of this policy.
    
    Until the letters hit the mail box, if there is a letter, this is all
    guess work. Everyone just hang in there. If there is such a letter, we
    all will hear about it about the same time.
    
    Regards

    RE...136
    
    ?????  Was this early retirement or downsizing er, I mean right sizing?
    
    Did you get the tap or the opportunity for ER??????
    
    Sorry to hear the news!!!!!!!!
    
    Alan

    Did anyone back East get their "package" in the mail yet?
    If so, could you inform the rest of us what it is?
    

    It is now 1:00 eastern time. The great majority of people will not
    know for several hours. the great majority a. are not able to get home
    for lunch or b. have not received their mail at home. I am not yet
    old enough to participate but there are a lot of anxious folk waiting
    to hear. If anyone gets the *notice* please notify us all before 
    packing 8*)

    
    How does the "notice in the mail" news got started?  I am assuming such
    important  across the board announcement would come from the top such
    as joint meeting with the managers, personnel, and the qualified
    candidates.  Recently the change of health insurance carrier at our
    site got more coverage then this!!!
    
    This notice in the mail sounds "fishy" to me... what if the mail got
    lost? I am anxiously waiting and there is no news here in California.
    
    jean

    Re. "In the mail"
    
    My father-in-law, who has been working on this early retirement thing
    for some time now, was told by his manager yesterday to "stay home
    tomorrow morning and wait for the mail".  He did, and nothing from
    Digital was in the mail....holiday delay??
    
    Steve

    
    	Well, I think all you folk out west can stand down for today.
    	T'is now 1325 here and no one has mentioned getting ER info in
    	the mail.  I certainly believe there are a bunch of folk able 
    	to get home and check out the mailbox.  My conclusion is that
    	nothing about ER arrived today.
    
    	I suspect that the "in the mail" friday thing was a bogus rumor.
    	(As opposed to Quality rumors!)
    

    The federal holiday yesterday didn't help matters any, but I'm a little
    surprised that there's nothing in vtx live wire about it yet, assuming
    that it's for real.  I suspect that a lot of curmudgeonly types will be
    leaving for home early today and perhaps several days thereafter, until
    the mail arrives or until the eligibility parameters become public
    knowledge--or perhaps until this ER thing is revealed as a hoax.  What
    a concept for an April Fool joke!
    
    Craig

re: .128,

>    Just heard that someone from Maynard got the package Sat. in the mail.

    	Actually, the mail was all sent out early last week and everyone
    who was supposed to recieve it already recieved it.  Apparently only
    one person qualified for the ER package...

    				   -davo


p.s.	Sorry, couldn't resist!  ;^)

>  T'is now 1325

	Maybe mail comes to your house by 1325 but it seldom gets to my
	house that early. Then again mail usually takes longer to get to
	my *town* than to some others. :-)

    The only letters that I received were bills. I suggest that the
    DEC theme song should be..."TOMORROW, TOMORROW, TOMORROW.....
    
    SOME MORE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS FOR SOME OF US.

    I am ashamed of myself for allowing the rumors to get to me.  And I
    don't blame DEC management for the rumors...we have done it to
    ourselves.
    
    It only makes sense if the decision was made last week that it would
    take some time to implement it.  Like a previous note I can't believe
    that we will be the first to know.  Our managers certainly need to 
    know and understand the possible impact to their organization.
    
    Although I would like to know, I can wait and in waiting hope that the
    process is handled properly not only for me, but for DEC and my
    management.

    
    Odd that noone from Personnel seems to know about this!

    DAVID - DAVID - DAVID
    
    	I'm astonished ! You never behaved this way when you were my
    reliable and sturdy IVISLAN guru.  Shame on you.
    
    G. Kelly   in Hotlanta.

    RE:146 - 151 -128
    
    Sorry my response in .151 was directed at .146

This is all a sinister plot by management.  They leak information about
several supposed early retirement packages.  The people that think they
might qualify begin to anticipate.  Then they begin to fret and worry and
get angry when they feel like they're being kept in the dark.  Then their
job performance goes down.  Management can then fire them for non
performance and save a bundle of out placement dollars... 

    As I said before, management has nothing to do with this.  For us to
    think that they have not considered early retirement is foolish.  
    
    We should be mature enough to know that a major decision like this
    requires considerable analysis and planning.  Any leaks that have
    occurred I feel have been embellished by the anxious.
    
    I, personally, am glad that I have had the opportunity to explore the
    rumor before the announcement.  It has not reduced my productivity it
    has increased it.  First I wanted to tie everything up in a neat
    package before I left.  Now I realize that the dollars and the loss of
    benefits aren't worth the ready cash and I am working with a sense of
    renewal and purpose.
    
    

I just phoned home and there was nothing from DEC. Also, for anybody
interested in another unsubstantiated report, the supposed reason for the
delay is because there is a hangup/problem/issue with the medical benefits.
Oh well, I assume that by now everybody is as fed up with the rumors as
me.

    Went to the mail box last night and there it was - 9 1/2 x 4 inch,
    white envelope, Bulk Rate stamp, AND an important message -
    
    NOTICE: STARTLING INFORMATION THAT MAY AFFECT YOUR FUTURE TRAVEL PLANS.
    =======================================================================
    
    This is IT, let's see what the real story is, ripped it open
    
    and it was from American Express offering to insure my baggage on my
    next trip....
    
    

    WELL........................  QUOTEING MR Z.  BY MID FEBRUARY WE WILL
    HAVE SOME ANSWERS????????????????   CREDIBILITY IS BEING LOST BY OUR
    MANAGEMENT  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    SIGH......
    
    ALAN OVER 50...............
    

re: .151,

>    	I'm astonished ! You never behaved this way when you were my
>    reliable and sturdy IVISLAN guru.  Shame on you.

    	Hey George, If you thought I was a guru, then it looks like
    I've been successfully fooling you for quite awhile!  ;^)

    				 -davo

    Ok, I'll still buy Mid-Feb.  The question now is what year?  I think
    I know the problem...they're probably trying to use a computer to
    handle this, and you know how good we are at that!
    
    If it wasn't so damned sad, it would be funny.

    As if anything requiring any consensus in DEC is finished 
    by an appointed deadline.
    
    Let's start a new rumor.  You'll get an envelope in the mail
    but instead of Ed Macmahon's picture, it'll be Ken's picture
    saying "You may have already won the DEC Early retirement PLan!"
    
    Sigh..I wish somebody empowered to do so, would have the guts
    officially address this.
    
    Mark

RE:.1-.LAST

	Well folks I have just received the semi-official, pseudo-reliable,
quasi-positive, practically bankable, definitely probable, usually confirm-
able, normally dependable, word.

	According to the above mentioned source(s), the announcement for 
the ER package is absolutely April fools day which I hear rumored through
the grapevine normally falls on the first day of April.

	I'm told that you can put that in your pipe/cigarette-holder and
smoke it.

	Humm_m_m_m_m_   April Fools Day, I wonder, could it be....?
Do you really think? 	Humm_m_m_m_m_    I wonder, I mean they wouldn't?
Would they?   A HOAX is a HOAX but really......   

    
    Guess I will not be checking in hourly now that most of us got
    disappointed by the lack of actions/news here.
    
    See you around some other time.  Good luck and good bye to you all.
    
    jean

    you know what.......  I don' think i believe anyone anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    
    April fools day...................  Tell me another one!!!!!!
    
    
    Oh well
    
    have a nice day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Alan ---- aging more each day-------------

    	
    Assuming that the plan is 5 + 5 + 26 wks, has it occurred to anyone how
    unfair this is, considering that employees who were less valuable were
    given TFSO pkgs of up to 2 yrs pay and left at a time when there were
    still some jobs available.  Now why can't those employees who were
    considered too valuable to release, be given at least the same monetary
    consideration???
    
                                                            Al:

    
    .165  Assuming there is any truth to this whole thing.....  You've
          got it wrong.  It's the same time as you'd have gotten with
    	  a TFSO package, PLUS 26 weeks, and you're retired.
    
    	  Myself, I liked the 5-5-2.
    

    re - 164  How much are benefits worth? TFSO 1 had a 2 year benefits
    extension where the ER would allow a lifetime of benefits.. Also, I
    know many people who still haven't found work and now have no medical
    coverage.
    
    re - 165  What do you mean its the same as you'd have gotten with a
    tfso plus 26 weeks?

    
    If I got TFSO'ed I'd get 40 weeks pay.  If I get ER'ed (assuming it
    is true) I'd get my 40 weeks, PLUS 26 weeks.  That's what I'm saying,
    that's what I mean.
    

    re 168 Where does the 40 weeks come from for ER folks? Wouldn't that be
    called 5-5-66?

RE .167

Current TFSO calculation...

3 x (#years of service between 3 - 10)
4 x (#years of service > 10)
+ 9 weeks

As an example, assume you have 15 years with DEC, then

3 x 8   =  24
4 x 5   =  20
add 9 wks + 9
           __

curr TFSO  53 weeks

If the 26 is an adder, then the ER would = 79 weeks
unless of course you can use the 5 adder to your years
of service, ie.,

add 5 years to your age
add 5 years to your length of service

The length of service adder might only be used for determining
the % of your retirement pay or it might also be used in
the calculation of the package amount.

    I think an early retirement "package" is dead!
    We were told that it was being considered.
    *IF* it would be implemented we would have "answers"
    by mid-February. Mid-February has come and gone...
    No answers = NO ER.
    Of course it is still possible that the problem of 
    deciding the details has caused a delay in announcing
    an ER package, but it seems more and more likely to
    me that there will NOT be ANY announcement.
    I for one find it incredible that people are nit-picking
    the details of this phantom ER "package".
    

    Look on the bright side .(at least I am) If this rumor *does* come
    true sometime and it's a limited offer,that "sometime" just may be far 
    enough in the future that I'm old enough to "really" retire. (only 45
    right now)
    
    Ken

    Re - 170  Are we assuming that the ER package will include the TFSO
    package on top of the ER package? I hadn't heard that one yet.. Seems
    like two seperate things to me.

>  .Also, I  know many people who still haven't found work and now have no 
>    medical coverage.
 
	I still don't understand how this works, 
	- can't you get private medical coverage?
   	- If you can't, then isn't their a basic service?

	Heather

    Don't know how individual plans are priced out, but my sister-in-law
    is paying $100 a week for Tufts HMO (Mass.)  family coverage( small business
    membership). Also, it may be difficult or impossible for someone
    to get coverage under a new provider if they have pre-existing
    conditions, a stopping point for many of us who were offered a previous
    buyout and are the insurance provider for their family. I don't believe 
    any company offers "basic coverage", so that is not an alternative either.
    
    Lynn
    

    Does anyone know if this "ER package" would apply to both exempt and
    non-exempt employees?  (For as much as any of us KNOW anyway!)
    
    "G"

    Sure, we might as well assume that, we are assuming everything else.
    
    Seriously folks,...
    I do not think it would be possible to distinguish between recipients
    and non-recipients on that basis.
    
    
    				herb

    MONDAY MAR 2,1991 IS THE DAY FOR ER ANNOUNCEMENT

    Is that 1991 or more like 1996.
    
    Bob

    THIS IS STRAIGHT SKINNY FROM PERSONNEL MAR 92

    
    
    	ALL RIGHT!  "Straight Skinny" this time, rather than just plain	
    	rumor!
    
    

>STRAIGHT SKINNY FROM PERSONNEL

	Does this person have and name? Or a title? Or could it be just
	an other random rumor from someone who just happens to be in 
	personnel?

			Alfred

	PS: Perhaps you could get you manager to replace your VT50 (the last
	terminal we made that only had UPPER case letters) or fix what ever
	it is you are using so it can enter mixed case. Unless you are intending
	to SHOUT?

I tried Find Straight Skinny in ELF, but it could only find 3 people named
Skinner, none of whom seems to be in Personnel.  Could you have spelled
Mr/Ms Skinny's name wrong?  Or maybe he/she's already retired early?

    Yet another rumor has it that the algorith is 5+5+1/2 (that's 1/2 years
    salary - not the 2 usually mentioned!!).
    
    But then again, that just another rumor, but from a good rumor source.

    I can't (oh well I guess I can) continue to read what folks input to
    this file!  Why don't we wait till March 2, 1992.  Then all folks over
    50 walk to personnel and stand in line till we get an answer.   I bet I
    don't see any one waiting in line................
    
    
    Till the Ides of March arrives..... BTH in my humble opinion 1/2 will
    not tempt to many folks..............   But maybe there is
    something;;;;
    
    
    
    Alan

re                      <<< Note 1756.186 by FSOA::ASKIEST >>>
>                           -< Lets stand in Line!!! >-

    
>    Till the Ides of March arrives..... BTH in my humble opinion 1/2 will

	Thats it.  

	The Ides of March formula, 3/15/92, you must have heard from 
the same reliable source that I did.  

Subtract 3 from your age, 
Subtract 15 from your years of service, 
If the sum is less than 92 go stab Brutus
else, you're probably over 65 anyway... 
			Q.E.D.

	R

    Independently gathered info from a reliable source:  5 years, 5 years,
    and 26 weeks as a bonus, to be announced Monday, March 2.  I don't
    think there will be too many takers except for those close to
    retirement age anyway.
    

    There is no early retirement.  It is just wishfull thinking by a
    few people.
    
    I would not even think of early retirement at this point in time
    with the job market the way it is.
    
    Of course if they would make it realistic and give 1 years pay for
    over 10 years with company and the 5 & 5, they may get some takers.
    
    I'll retire in 2002 regardless what is happening at DEC.
    
    Bob

    re - 190 Is that wishful thinking? I would have to consider ER because
    of the way the market is. I would hate to pass up an ER package now
    only to get laid off (who knows what the future will bring) later. If
    we had an ER package it would seem to me that its the last effort
    before real (minimal or no package) layoffs start...

    Well, it is hard to call and each person has to make his own
    mind up on this.  I have set my goals, and I have to meet them.
    
    The one goal I reach was I get a retirement no matter what.  I
    have medical in place with the retirement no matter what.
    
    I will gamble with DEC not throwing me out without some kind of
    package.
    
    I never look back.  I always look forward and have a plan of
    action if they lay me off within the next 1 hour.  I can never
    set around saying what might have been.
    
    Bob

    If it really is 5/5/26 weeks...that pretty cheap considering the
    packages offered by many other companies with far less cash.  Could
    it be they are just going through the motions?
    
    I'm one of those guys that is pretty close to retirement anyway.....so
    I would probably accept it, but it is right on the bloody edge of
    acceptability.  Could be it was tailored specifically to strip off
    the old farts?  Anyhow, it'll be a restless weekend.

re: this whole topic

Well, not to worry, I have it from a very good source that if nothing
is heard by 3/2 that it will be by 3/16. In the extreme case that nothing
is heard on the subject by 3/16, then most definitely it will be by 3/30.
In any case, the latest that any definitive word will be in coming is by
April 13th. That is of course, if it doesn't take longer than that...
in that case it will be no later than .....
As to the actual offering, well it will be 5-5-4 unless of course it is 5-5-2.
Then again, it most definitely might be 5-5-1 or 5-5-3.33 or ......

(-:

This string is killing me, I can hardly get up off the floor I'm laughing so
hard... I guess there are people who will or want to believe anything.
Somebody mentioned marching up to personnel and demanding an answer 
(or something like that). I would suggest that while they are at it, they
also demand an answer to the other 15 unfounded rumors that are prevelant at
any one time.

- George

    26 weeks is a joke! So typical of Digital's upper management, too
    little , too late. With the job market in a shambles, surely only those
    in the over 60 range who are already thinking about retirement would
    benefit from this ER plan. How many could that be, not many, a drop in
    the bucket. The program needs to attract thousands not hundreds.
    Digital has a major over population problem. 
    
    The ER should have been the first program, not the last. Looks like people 
    programs are just like product programs, we don't bother to ask what 
    people/customers want,we just go off and tell them what they want. 
    I guess we really are what we say we are, a manufacturing and engineering 
    company, not a marketing or people company. I suspect that many of you who 
    are following this issue have been around long enough to remember when we 
    were a people company. I guess I am getting old and tired. 
    
    The 26 weeks is looking better and better..........

    Bon week end!

    as somebody who would most likely be eligible for the plan...
    
    Even if the plan offered 2 years salary, i could not afford to take it.
    We just remortgaged (15 yrs) our home for the kids' college (total
    edu_cost $180,000, so I am not asking for sympathy) My wife and I won't
    be able to retire until that mortgage is paid off.
    I suspect there are a lot of early 50s through latish-50s people in
    similar circumstances.
    
    
    				herb

    If it already hasn't been done...... Why don't we send this entire
    notes file to Management so that they can pick one of the above and
    enjoy the fun and laughter we have had trying to decipher the rumors.
    BTW IMHO I also feel 26wks won't get many takers!  Oh well, only ten
    years to go.................  Until the next rumor.  Actually I really
    believe May 2 or was it jun 2 .............
    
    
    Alan

    RE: Other companies and other plans

    Maybe the other companies that have "better" early retirement plans
    are more fun to work at. Maybe there it takes extra extra incentive
    to get people to leave. There seem to be people here who are so
    unhappy that one almost expects to hear *them* offering DEC money
    to let them go.

    Someone else is always going to have a better plan. There are lots
    worse than what rumor has Digital offering. If you're offered a plan
    and you like it - take it. If you don't like it - don't take it. I'm not
    sure why I should want the company to pay big bucks to people who
    don't want to work here when they are already non competitive with
    salary for those who *do* want to work here. (At least this is true
    for S/W engineers according to Digital's own survey.)


    RE: Digital having too many people.

    I'll accept that being true if one means too many managers. I happen 
    to believe we've already cut more than deep enough into individual
    contributors.

    			Alfred

    RE198
    
    You are either living in never never land or are a politician. DEC. has
    not cut enough people to survive in the current market place. For them
    to survive and keep a competitive price they have to cut costs......
    What better way to cut then get rid of the dead wood that they have.
    Not that the dead wood is the people looking for ER, but the people
    who for the past 2 years have done nothing for the CO. but get a 
    paycheck. The amount to cut for survival is 15,000 to 20,000. Come
    forth with a decent package and get on with business. Let who wants to
    leave, leave..... Hoo ray for ER........

    re -1 .... well finally, some common sense.  I agree with you that we
    haven't even started to do serious cuts.  I submit that if we are back
    on our corporate feet five years from now, AND Alpha is a success, we
    could well be doing it with 50,000 fewer people than we have now.
    
    Remember, our goal is to make Alpha very commodity-like.

    
    
    	Why cannot DEC come out with a portfolio of options?  Options
    	like ER, options like voluntary TFSO, maybe some scheme that
    	offers less cash but a long-term insurance package, or the
    	opposite for those covered by spousal plans, or manditory time
    	off without pay, or voluntary pay reductions for long-term job 
    	security or some retraining programs, etc, etc.
    
    	It always seems to be a tippy-toe ever-so-slightly in the water 
    	on this plan, then maybe a tippy-toe again over here.
    
    	(seems to me, he said) Somebody ought's get on with reducing
    	staff/expenses quickly, efficiently, AND with the least amount
    	of pain, which means voluntary programs.  There has YET to be a
    	100% voluntary program.  (I know of people that volunteered for
    	TFSO1, and were told that volunteers were accepted only from
    	specific groups.)
    

    	"Cross over the BRIDGE, Cross over the BRIDGE!!!" 

    RE: .203 by MPGS::ZEREGA   "Remember that old song??"
    
    
    	>"Cross over the BRIDGE, Cross over the BRIDGE!!!" 
    
    Is that the criterion?  If you can remember this song, you're eligible
    for retirement?
    

    
I'm 53 years old and have nearly 20 years service with DEC.  There are days
when I'd take a severance check in the high three figures. I want the medical
for the rest of my life. 

We built our current house in Vermont fifteen years ago.  Prices were still low 
up here, and the real estate market was just taking off in Mass.  We sold our 
house in Natick for a lot more than we thought it was worth and also cashed in
a pile of DEC stock for the down payment on the new place.  The current
mortgage is laughably low - one week's take-home covers it and buys the
groceries besides. 

My wife has a pretty good job that doesn't pay as well as mine.  Both of our 
kids are done with college and are married.  We have no significant debt other
than our mortgage; we own our cars and keep our credit cards paid off every
month.  We are putting a lot of money into various retirement schemes.

I'm ready for the package.
    
    Larry

    
    
    Just got the _TRUE_ "skinny"..............
    
    More A.S.A.P........................  ******  YES !!!!!!!!! *******
    
    Dan (ret.)

    Sorry for the delay,
                         E.R. _______ IS_________ 5 - 5 - .5
    
    To be announced on Live Wire March 2 1992.
    
    I will try to get the whole E.R.P. on the tube.
    
    Later
    Dan
    

    
    
    What ya going to do....................
    
    Wheeewwwwwww HEAVY STUFF !
    
    Like the KING said.............I'm all shook up...uh huh...
    
    Dan

    
    
    Jeez ! Note .208 was short lived......
    
    		 	Mike
    			----

    Where did .208 go?
    
    Mark

    
      What did it say?????

    
    
    Freedom of what........................
    
    THE DEC WAY.....................
    
                        ************** FLAME ON ! *****************
    Dan

    .208 had a mail message in it. The original author information
    was not attached nor was permission to post noted in it. Either 
    is enough under policy to rate pulling a note.

    			Alfred

    Please don't anyone start any long conversations with me!!!

    I have just received a copy of the E R program and no where did it say
    5 + 5 + 5
    
    The truth is 5 years to ones age.
    26 weeks one-time payment.
    and DEC's retirement life coverage for one year.
    Then 3K after.
    Medical and Dental coverage under the Digital retiree Medical program.
    
    This is an insult to some of us that have over 20+ years and just
    make the 50 age by May 31st.
    
    It looks like I'm here for a long long time. Or untill I get told to
    leave.
    
    The Sad one 

    Update to note 216
    
    I have gotten a few calls and had a few issue cleared up
    
    Note 208 WAS Correct.
    
    The E R Program is 5 + 5 + .5
    
    Sorry for miss leading you. 
    
    I promiss it won't happen again. I'm taking the package
    
    Please no more phone calls I have outher work to do.
    
    
    

    Does anyone know of a formula or rule-of-thumb by which you can
    estimate the current cash value of your pension fund.  I know about
    what I'd get in yearly pension payments.
    
    Craig

    Re: .216 
    
                 .207    states    .5
    
    
            Tiz your choice !
    
    Dan

    Good luck Andries.
    
    I am happy with the 5 + 5 but had hoped for the 52 weeks pay.  I
    don't look for many to take the early retirement.
    
    I will be here till I am 62 or they through me out.
    
    One mans thoughts, one mans decision.
    
    Bob

    Re a coupele back.  The lump sum retirement payment will be pretty
    close to 10 years of monthly payments.  I've had it computed for me
    a few times, and it usually comes out really close to monthly payment
    times 120....Not too slouchy.

Some people evidently have received a memo which purports to be the "real"
retirement plan which is yet to be officially announced, and have posted same
here.  The moderators have been officially asked by Corporate Personnel to
remove any copies of that memo posted here.

Please - just because you've obtained a memo, that doesn't give you permission
to post it in a notes conference.  Indeed, corporate policy prohibits that
action unless you have received explicit permission by the memo's author.

Once the plan is officially announced, then details can be posted here.

				Steve - co-moderator

    
    
    	Dick, 120 times what "monthly payment"?  What you'd get at age 65
    	if you stayed 'till then, no raises, etc?  120 times the % you'd 
    	get at whatever age you "early" retired at?
    

    I think (but I'm not sure) that the amount of the lump sum does not
    depend on your age at retirement. Am I close?
    
    Ken

    
    It really is here.  Just be patient and you will get it.
    
    5 - 5 - 26 wks
    
    

     
    
    We read it in the globe 1st.
    
    What a way to run a ship.
    
    Shhhhhhhhhhhh dont tell anyone I said that. *8-)
    
    Dan

    If details are in the Boston Globe, why aren't they here?

    Sorry I am not a cunning linguist.
    
    On anouther note  .5  S*CKS !
    
    As someone else well put......."good guys finish last"
    
    The more I think about it, the more of a problem it is to me.
    
                  _____ CAN WE TALK ? _________
    Dan

    I've seen the memo.
    
    It's not impressive.
    
    I'll pass!
    
    

    - Im 54.
    
    - 22 + yrs. with dec..
    
    - Good health.
    
    - Want to live in Fla.
    
    - Dont owe much on our house.
    
    - My wife will "go with the flow".
    
    - If I dont take it, can/will dec. tap me after the E.R. expires.
    
    - Will we have anouther E.R. in the future.
    
    - If so what will they offer.
    
    - Why cant I have 77 wks. and the E.R.   (77 wks. max.)
    
    - They held on to me, so why should I get < $.
    
    - Will Dec. change to " flat out layoffs".
    
    _ Why all the double/pick a # standards.
    
    * Is ELVIS still alive *8-).
    
                   More later, im sure.
    
         ?
      ? Dan ?
         ?

The law requires informing the stock-owning public first.

At a much smaller company than this, the PR people used to issue their 
announcement and then immediately plaster the halls and the appropriate
mailing lists with the announcement, but there was still a small time 
difference (minutes) between informing the public and informing the employees.

    
    
    	if we're taking a poll....
    
    
    		.5 ain't for me either.
    
    

    Assuming 5 + 5 + .5 is it, so much for ER "I". It will probably be as
    successful as the Rainbow. So lets start listening for the rumors for
    ER II or in the Digital way of doing things, ER Plus. Rumor has it, you
    heard it here for the first time, from that "straight skinny" guy down
    the hall who has a friend who's knows a guy who's wife's hair dresser's
    boyfriend is a Boston taxi driver who over heard a conversation that
    said ER Plus will be announced on Sept. 6th, his birthday. As good a
    day as any for a rumor.

    He said it is the 2 + 2 = 3 plan. If you can prove 2 + 2 = 3, you
    qualify for the plan. To determine your benefit, you take your age and
    divide by 2, add 2 times your years of service, and divide this by the
    number of years you have been married, or divorced or single or dead.
    If the answer is zero then you will receive a one time compensation of 
    3 times your first years salary or last years bonus which ever is
    smaller or something like that.

    Don't take it serious personnel, we all make mistakes.
    
    See ya in the flip side!
    
    Rocky Top

    What memo?????????????  Could someone please write about what is
    in "the memo" they have seen.  Who wrote the memo????

    Bob, I got the 120 factor from an actual retirement quote that I asked
    personnel for a while back.  I wanted to know what I would get if I
    retired right now....not at 65.
    
    The monthly payment (if you chose that route) is called the "annuity".
    In my case the lump sum offered was 118.6 times the monthly annuity.
    This is what I'm basing my assumption on.
    
    I too think the 26 week thing will limit acceptance.  While generous in
    some respects, it IS definitely below industry norms.  It will severely
    restrict the number of 50-55 year olds who will be able to accept this
    package.  Maybe that's what the authors had in mind.

    
    .237 Dick, wouldn't that amount (factor) vary according to the prevlent 
    interest rates?  
    
    My understanding is that "they" put aside "X" bucks.  That "X" bucks,
    along with accumulating interest, should in time provide the money needed
    to disperse monthly pension checks for the length of time actuarial tables
    say you'll have a need (ie, for as long as you live).
    
    So, in times of low interest like now, more money "X" has to be put in
    up front to compensate for the low interest.  Z'at right?
     
    

    
    
    
    
    
    
			"SOME SWEETENER"

Unbelievable!  How can it have taken SO long for DIGITAL to now offer THIS
ER package?  The 26 week "sweetener" is offered equally to those who have 
been with the company as long as 35 years as it is being offered to those
who have been with the company as little as 1 year.

DIGITAL cannot reasonably use the excuse that 26 weeks is the most that can
be offered without taking too much from the company's stockholders.  What
SHOULD be done is to use the SAME total dollar amount and distribute it 
proportionally to time at DIGITAL (i.e. like the TFSO distributions have 
been done).

There must be at least one potential retiree who was there at the beginning,
working shoulder to shoulder with Ken.  To make things worse, such a person
might just be 65 years old now and will not be helped AT ALL by the second
"5" of "5-5."
    
                   For the record..........
    
    DEC. _has been_ very good to me, and I have enjoyed working for DEC.
    
    All I want is to be treated ***_ FAIR _***.
    
    Later
          Dan

    re .238
    
    I think you may be reaching, not that I blame you.
    
    I'm almost 54, and my only debt is about 24K left on my mortgage.  If
    the housing market were better and I thought I could get a decent
    equity out of the sale of my house (getting out from under the NH
    residence tax monster en passant), this 5-5-.5 thing would look a lot
    better to me.  It would look even better next year, when I qualify for
    the one-time capital gains break.
    
    I'm frankly a little astonished that we're not being offered at least
    as good a deal as the TSFOs were given.  This package is strictly for
    those who are almost ready to retire without the package.
    
    I will wait to see the personalized mailing in about two weeks.  Maybe
    with the lump sum pension, I'll have enough head room to cover my
    mortgage and go into some kind of business.
    
    Craig

    Re; .239 Strongly agree.
    
     Something relating to your years of service should have been 
     part of the formula.
    
     
    
    

    
    
               The E.R.P. memo/guidelines are in the mail.
    
    I just looked at one that came in the mail today.
    
    It is just like the old memo .208 (the devil made me do it)
    
                  10-4 and back at ya ............
    
    Dan
    

    What a bunch of cry-babies.  Did someone promise that life is fair? 
    They lied.
    
    I've been laid off twice in my career.  Both times all I got was 4
    weeks "severance pay" and a handshake.
    
    Turn down the bloody offer if you don't like it.  Then you might have
    something to REALLY cry about if the next time all you get is a tap on
    the shoulder.
    
    Sigh.......

    re .243
    
    If the package lines up well with your situation, I'm very happy for
    you.  Have a nice life.

    
    
    You have a right to your opinion.
    
    You have no rights to name calling.
    
    Dan

    What everyone is talking about is the internal mailing to managers of
    the announcement of the Special Early Retirement Program (SERP) at
    Digital.  I got mine today.  The early warning to managers is so
    planning can begin should people in your group take the bait.  This
    will create some vacuums which may or not need to be filled.
    
    All the specifics quoted earlier appear to be confirmed by this
    document.  A followup document is to be mailed to all U.S. employees
    "shortly", followed by a customized mailing to eligible employees. 
    Approximately 7,000 employees are believed to be eligible.  The offer
    is not limited by location or job function.
    
    The brochure includes a schedule of events culminating in the effecting
    of retirement on May 31 for those who opt out.

    Its my party and I'll cry if I want to, cry if I want to.
    
    Maybe I'll write a song and get rich.
    
    Bob

    re .246
    
    >>Approximately 7,000 employees are believed to be eligible<<
    
    I assume this number came from the document you received.
    
    If so, that represents ~6% of the corporate workforce, which seems
    rather low assuming that the baseline is 50 years old/5 years with
    DEC. 
    If the 7,000 is based only on U.S. employees, then it seems more
    reasonable.
    
    Terry

    Of course it's U.S. only!  I'm looking at the same brochure.  It
    also says that about half the eligible group is between the ages
    of 50-54.  They state they will not be able to predict or control
    who takes the offer, and that some organizations will be heavily
    impacted.  Also makes a strong statement to the effect that managers
    are not supposed to immediately start generating reqs.  The name of
    the game is to get along without the retirees.
    
    I will probably take it unless the lump sum retirement payment (not
    the 26 weeks) turns out to be truly insulting.  Personally, I think
    they will be surprised at the number of people in the 50-54 bracket
    who will refused.

    Does the offer give an immediate pension with _no_ actuarial deduction
    for each year that the pension has been taken early ?
    
    If there is no effect on the pension, then (IMO) the process is one of
    being just another focused TFSO package and not genuine 
    "Early Retirement".  This is what happened in the UK last year.
    
    Imquiring mind wants to know.
    
    John
    

    
    Yes, it says specifically that ...
    
      Less of a reduction for early retirement.....In fact, anyone who is
    age 60 or older may receive a full pension benefit immediately under
    SERP.  (because eligible employees will also be treated as though they
    are five years older when determining the reduction that is made
    in their pension benefit for early retirement.
    
    Hope you like this
    

    How do you figure out what your monthly payment will be ...?
    
    Approximate... is good enough...

    re:years of service...
    
    There's probably some obscure federal law which keeps DEC from
    including years of service in the formula for ER. Your tax dollars at
    work!
    
    BTW: look at your yearly benefits statement for an estimate of monthly
    pension payments.
    
    Ken

    From VTX this morning
    
          Voluntary early retirement program for U.S. approved by Board 

  Digital's Board of Directors has approved a Special Early Retirement Program 
  (SERP).  It will be offered to U.S. employees who, as of May 31, are at least 
  50 with five or more years of service, or at least 60 with one or more years 
  of service.  Approximately 7,000 employees are eligible to retire under the 
  voluntary program.  Retirements under SERP are effective May 31, 1992, when 
  the program ends.  

  The program was designed to reduce the employee population by providing 
  eligible employees who are interested in retiring with an attractive early 
  retirement option.  It complements the Transition Financial Support Option 
  (TFSO); it does not replace TFSO.  The results of SERP will be evaluated when 
  the program is completed.  In the meantime, TFSO activity will be limited. 
  Those who choose to retire under SERP will receive:

    o  A larger pension plan benefit.  The benefit will be calculated under the 
       normal plan formula based on an additional five years of service at the 
       rate of pay in effect on February 1, 1992.

    o  A higher percentage of fully accrued benefits for employees under 65. 
       When the reduction in pension benefits for early retirement is 
       calculated, eligible employees will be treated as though they are five 
       years older.  As a result, the percentage of benefit for retiring prior 
       to age 65 will be greater than it normally would.  Employees who are 60 
       or older may receive a full pension benefit immediately.

    o  Special one-time payment.  A special one-time payment equal to 26 weeks 
       of current pay will be paid in a single lump sum.

    o  Retiree medical and dental coverage.  SERP participants will be eligible 
       for coverage under the Digital Retiree Medical Plan and the Retiree 
       Dental Plan.

    o  Continuing life insurance coverage.  Basic life insurance will continue 
       for one year after retirement.  Coverage is generally equal to two times 
       pay, with a benefit of up to $50,000.  SERP participants may also 
       continue purchasing optional employee and dependent life insurance for 
       the first year.  After one year, the normal retiree coverage of $3,000 is
       in effect. 

  Outplacement services, including career transition workshops, individual 
  counseling and, in some locations, career centers, will be offered to all 
  SERP participants through November 30, 1992.  Those who participate in the 

  Restricted Stock Option Program (RSOP) will have the rights normally awarded
  under RSOP at retirement.  A detailed information package, including a 
  personalized statement of benefits and instructions for electing the 
  retirement option, will be mailed to the homes of all eligible employees 
  within the next three weeks.  Special meetings to provide more information 
  about the program will also be scheduled for eligible employees.  In 
  addition, the next issue of the Benefits Bulletin, which is distributed to 
  all U.S. employees, will explain the program in detail.  

  Employees who believe they are eligible for the program but do not receive 
  any information should contact their Personnel representatives. 



  Can someone explain to li'l old me what "it will complement TFSO" means
    

>It complements the Transition Financial Support Option 
>(TFSO); it does not replace TFSO.

complement 
   def... n. Something that completes, perfects, or makes 
             up a whole.
          v. To add or serve as a complement to.

I'm not really sure what the above statement means. The 
way it is worded, it could mean that the SERP A-N-D the
TFSO could be used as a total package to entice people to
leave, ie., certain people might be eligible for both
based upon business participation in TFSO, necessity to
reduce headcount, obsolete skills, etc., etc..

    What I should have asked was, if you know your monthly payment from
    your benifits pkg., that mo. payment is figured for retirement at age
    65, and you want to retire now at age 58,(63 with the 5 yrs added),
    how do you adjust the difference in $'s between 63 and 65?
    
    Also, if my 58th birthday is April 24, and I want to take the ER, can I
    retire that very day, the 1st day of my 58th year, or do I have to wait
    until May 31st.
    
    And under the lump sum entitlement, will my 26 weeks benifit be
    deducted from that?  Thats how it sounded in the ER summary letter
    that was forwarded to me last Friday.
    

I think "it complements TFSO" means that its intent is the same -- to reduce
headcount.  The sentence about suspending TFSO until SERP is complete leads
me to believe that they want to see how much it reduces headcount before
they decide on the next round of layoffs.

    The statement that TFSO will still continue is certainly true!  We lost
    one this morning!
     

    <What I should have asked was, if you know your monthly payment from
    <your benifits pkg., that mo. payment is figured for retirement at age
    <65, and you want to retire now at age 58,(63 with the 5 yrs added),
    <how do you adjust the difference in $'s between 63 and 65?

    This question was asked and answered earlier in this discussion.
    In addition, your digital retirements benefit bulletin contains a table
    of percentages for each of the years 55-64.

      
    
                 *********** INQUIRING MINDS (part 2) *************
    
    I want to see 7k replies ..........*8-)
    
    
    Based on what you know _ now _, what ya going to do ?
    
    
                          Myself..........not sure
    Dan

re 	difference between  "now with 5 & 5 years credit"  and  "then 
	without"

	I think the formula is approx

	Accrued pension benefit is 1 1/2 %  of average of last 
	5 years salary - times years of service

	50% of pension available at 55, 100% at 65, 
	e.g. 50% @55, plus 5% more per year after that

	The 5 5 just adds 5 into each of these, so	
	Round numbers, for a hypothetical 55 year old with 20 years of 
service;  without SERP  50% (for age)  of 30% (for service) = 15%
with SERP  75% (for adjusted age)  of  37 1/2% (for adjusted service)
= 28.125%

	So, how would such a person decide ??

	I doubt that many people would decide based on the value of
this package alone.  The hypothetical employee above would be taking a
71.875% cut in gross the first year, so the next list of questions
might become 

i)	How am I going to make that up ?
ii)	How competitive am I in the current job market ?
iii)	What current job market ?
iv)	What is more worth my time ?
v)	How long do I need to hang on to a full pay job to break even 
	if I get TSFO'd some time after SERP expires ?
vi)	What chance do I have to re-skill ?
vii)	Do I WANT TO re-skill ?
viii)	Is there a market for people who can count in lower case roman 
	numerals ?
ix)	Will son of SERP be better or worse ? 
x)	How much could I put in the bank while holding on for SERP III ?
xi)	Having retired at 'adjusted 60'  does my pension remain at 75% 
	of 37 1/2%, or does it increase by 5% of 37 1/2 % per year
	until I am 65 ? 
xii)	

	I dunno, flip a binary decision making device  (-:

	R

    Don't know about you, but the present structure of the "special one
    time payment" really doesn't feel good on the basis that a 30 year
    employee gets the same number of weeks payment as one who has been with
    Digital for only ten years. Guess I'd expect that if a ten (10) year
    employee could get 26 weeks pay (2.6 weeks per year served) then
    Digital could value the longer term employee's contribution to Digital's
    success by using the same 2.6 weeks/year served times the number of
    years to arrive at the "special one time payment".
    
    As currenty structured, the plan "discriminates" against the long
    time loyal employees.
                         
     

    
    
                      THANK YOU !
    Dan

	Doesn't the amount you get for the rest of your life depend on how
	many years of service you have with the company? I don't see how this
	plan is so bad for people with more years of service. So the lump sum
	is the same, the pension is larger for longer term employees isn't it?

			Alfred

    The fact that DIGITAL has issued an early retirement offer package made
    it newsy enough that it was highlighted on the 2 PM CBS Wall Street
    Update news section on our local affilicate (WBT in Charlotte NC).
    
    Guess words certainly officially out ...
    
    Jack Bouknight

    RE: .263
    
        I have felt this way since day one, I just did not know how to put
    it, Thank you.
    

    RE: .269 Companies that have offered better packages as time 
    went on have been sued by people who received earlier, lesser
    packages. Those companies have lost. For this reason it is quite
    unlikely we'll see packages get better.

    Also the logic is that the more a company *has* to get rid of 
    people the less they can afford to give those people.

    If you want to talk about fair, is it fair to give bonuses to 
    people you don't need while keeping salaries of those you do
    need under what the competition gives?

    		Alfred

    I think (imho) that is the genral consciences of all that _ARE_
    qualified.
    
    I started anouther note pro. con. and ?'s of S.E.R.P..
    
                       # 1786
    Dan

    Let's move this discussion to the new SERP notesfile.

    ADD ENTRY SERP/FILE=NOTED::SERP

    or touch KP7 to add to your notebook.
    

re: .270 (Alfred)

>If you want to talk about fair, is it fair to give bonuses to 
>people you don't need while keeping salaries of those you do
>need under what the competition gives?

From the above statement, I assume you feel that the company doesn't
need people over 50 years of age. My belief is that the company is trying
as humanely as possible to reduce cost to make the company profitable. So
far they have offered several voluntary, and more reluctantly, involuntary 
packages to try to cuts costs. The current effort recognizes that people 
over 50 are more likely to be financially secure enough to consider doing 
something else with their lives... whether that be retirement or opening a 
new business(Colonel Sanders opened his first Kentucky Fried Chicken store 
when he was over 65.) Unless you wish to restate your reply, I'll offer the 
following observation.

Where would we be and what would the world look like if Thomas Edison, 
Michelangelo, Albert Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, Pablo
Picasso, Sir Isaac Newton, Arturo Toscanini, George Washington, Aristotle,
Johannes Brahms, Sir Winston Churchill, etc., etc., had all been told that
they weren't needed anymore once they reached 50 years of age. 

Gnaw on that one for a while!!!!!!!!

re: .273

I'm not Alfred and I suppose that he ought to answer for himself
but, I think you are WAY off base here. I don't for a minute think
Alfred meant that the people who are to be offered the E.R. are
not of any use. He said that the company is giving bonuses to people
who they don't need. That I guess, is because they are trying to get them
to retire... They = DEC. So, if DEC is trying to get people to retire early
then it can be concluded that DEC feels that it can get along without them.
Isn't that a fair observation?

- George

    My interpretation of that comment was that it was a comparison of TFSO
    people who were given large sums of money (based on time in service) to
    help them transition, and SERP folks who have been here a long time
    plugging away for dear old DEC.  Could be wrong...it wouldn't be the
    first time.  IMHO, the SERP incentive should have been based on years
    of service, as were the TFSO packages.  But then, I learned long ago
    that life isn't fair...On the other hand, SERP is better than a
    handshake and a boot out the door.  Lots of people are going to be
    doing some serious soul searching the next few weeks--maybe for the
    first time in years.  Good luck to all!
    

>From the above statement, I assume you feel that the company doesn't
>need people over 50 years of age. 

    	You assume quite INcorrectly. I was referring only to the fact 
    that Digital feels it has more people than it needs and is paying
    them to leave. Personally I think that an early retirement plan is
    a bad way to get that reduction specifically because the people we
    will lose have experience that we will never be able to replace.

    			Alfred

re: .274 (George for Alfred)
>So, if DEC is trying to get people to retire early then
>it can be concluded that DEC feels that it can get along
>without them.
>Isn't that a fair observation?

DEC has TFSO'd several thousand people over the past few
years that they feel that they can get along without. All
of those people, however, were let go as a result of
something other than age. If you reread my original reply,
you will find that I gave Alfred an opportunity to 
"...restate [his] reply," if I had misinterpreted his
comments. 

Alfred, thank you for clarifying your comments... I probably
shouldn't have assumed your intent. I suppose I'm a little
sensitive now that I've reached the big five-oh.

    my father tells me that life starts at 40, so you guys are teenagers
    now, your are really young.

    how about a turnabout?

    take the average age of the employee population.  on a service basis. 
    pay erxp on the basis of + years.  have the pups pay on the basis of
    - years.  or something like that.  y'know, to stay about.  or maybe it
    works something like that way now? 

    fred, 57, who thinks he likes nassar's "put-on" notes calligraphy.  at
    least he doesn't shout much.
    

    Talked to a friend last night.  He asked if I was taking early
    retirement at DEC.  I told him no.   He said he had 3 friends at
    MDC in St louis that were offered early retirement.  1 took it
    and retired.  2 otheres could not afford to take it and stayed.
    2 months later they were layed off with nothing.
    
    Is this a picture of the future???  Only time will tell.  I am
    in for the long haul.
    
    Bob
    

    whatever happens alpha will be interesting (exciting)

    Now say that you was in line for downsizing and also in line for the
    early retirment..Would you recieve both or just one.???
    
                    ANYONE WITH THE ANSWER....
    
    

    re:.281
    
    That sounds like retribution for not retiring when asked. I don't think
    DEC would do  that.
    Incidentally,I said before,half jokingly that there must be some
    obscure federal law which makes DEC offer the same "sweetener" (26
    weeks) to everyone. Now that I've thought about it,I'm sure that there
    *is* such a law: "You can't discriminate on the basis of age". The
    guv'mint probably believes that offering a higher amount to those with
    more years at a company would amount to enticing older employees to
    leave because they *are* the ones generally who have more time with a
    company. Does this make sense? Am I wrong again?
    
    Ken

    RE: .283
    
    According to the Benefits Bulletin I received at home yesterday, an 
    employee cannot receive both TFSO and SERP lump sum payments. The 
    SERP payment will be reduced by the amount of the TFSO payment. 
    
    Linda

IBM and others have had no problem rewarding long years of service, most other 
plans have rewarded longevity.  This is the new DEC.  

There is an implied threat in every news release that I've read, take it or be
prepared for worse.  

    In other words as I read here,The only thing DEC is giving to those
    that on the package list,Is the insurance added to the lump sum...
    This I don`t think would be to the best of these peolpe,Only to DEC.
    If you are over 55 and take the package for the downsize and later
    say a few weeks take the retirement bennies..If you are under 55,You
    got to wait a few years for this package..I hope I`m right..As for a
    longtime reward as 1756.286 stated,I don`t see it if this is part of
    the downsizing package..