Conference 7.286::digital

	... is the next "milestone". Q1 results will probably drive a lot
of decisions!

Its happening here in GIA (I am one) and Augusta is downsizing by 100
per Sunday's Boston Globe and the rumor mill says folks in PK are getting
that nice information today.

Instead of having an answer sheet as handouts you will only get
anmswers to questions you ask and under that stress level many
questions are not answered.

For those of us in GIA we need a FORMAL or Veifyable Job offer by 9/27
even though we have 9 more weeks as DECees, ie. 11/29 to cover their
advance notification butts as required by Mass. laws anyways.

And in DEC getting a job is 2 or 3 weeks through to the Formal Offer
Phase is hard indeed.

Told about the Pkg last week, found out about this date today by asking...
even though I had talked with Personnel last week. Guess I forgot to ask
that question. Wonder how many more I forgot to ask ?

Any good Labor Lawyers out there ?

Lloyd
244-7555

Isn't HPS losing hundreds of people right now?
Anybody in MRO to clarify what's happening there?

What did this Globe article say? 

What does the severance package look like this time?

Mark

    
    re: .3
    
    You bet. 
    
    PKO just got hit last week as well.
    
    IND closed down a couple weeks ago. It was a leased building. I
    worked there when it first opened.
    
    /prc

    PKO1 got hit last week.  People were told on Wed they had 2 hrs to pack
    up their things.  This was CIS.  They said 10 people got it.  The
    package was the same as it was before. 13 wks + 3wks to 10 yrs + 4 wks
    with a max of 77 wks.  Most of the people already knew they would be
    going.
    

    RE-4
    
    I believe all of the IND employees went to SHR.
    
    charlie
    

    With all the down-sizing still going on, and folks being offered the
    pkg....What is this thing I hear about DECFLEX??????? It sounds like
    the ole Stride program. If so then what are these folks doing???
    Do they have real jobs....or just waiting for one????? If you get the
    old tap on the shoulder, can you get into this program?????? I thought
    DEC wasn't going to have anything like the stride program.....BUT
    I may be wrong.........Anybody know??????????
    
                                               Bob

    
    
    re: .6
    
    Yes. From what I remember IND housed Regional Customer Service.
    I used to work there with Internal Software Services before it
    merged with Field Service.
    
    /prc

    Rep to <<< Note 1584.7 by LJOHUB::REILLY >>>

    Bob,

>    With all the down-sizing still going on, and folks being offered the
>    pkg....What is this thing I hear about DECFLEX??????? It sounds like
>    the ole Stride program. If so then what are these folks doing???
>    Do they have real jobs....or just waiting for one????? 
    
    As someone  who  is  in  DEC-Flex,  maybe  I can answer some questions.
    DEC-Flex was a  part  of  the  old  and  now  non-existant TMP program.
    DEC-Flex was the vehicle  for  people  in transition, who when tired of
    trying to find a job,  and  where  willing  did  contract  jobs for the
    company,  and  thus still fell productive  while  pulling  a  paycheck.
    Since April TMP has gone away, and the only piece that survived  is the
    DEC-Flex piece, Noone in DEC-Flex is spending time looking for a job or
    in long  term  training (except those now coming out of some programs),
    most people are  out  doing  various  short  to  long  term contract in
    various groups of the Company.
    
    Also since April or so DEC-Flex  has  change  its  name to USMHEO (U.S.
    Mfg.    Human  Resource Orginization).  We are considered permanent DEC
    employees, only our jobs descriptions are that we do temporary work for
    the co.   We  are  funded and subject to the rules etc.  like any other
    employee in the company.
    
>    If you get the  old  tap  on  the  shoulder,  can  you  get  into this
>    program??????  
    
    Yes and no, you must first fill a regular job rec to get into USMHEO,
    and once in USMHEO you'll be match to a temp rec based on skills etc.
    In fact we are encourage to mention USMHEO when we encounter people who
    are unhappy with their present job and are looking.
    
>    I thought DEC  wasn't  going  to  have anything like the
>    stride program.....BUT I may be wrong.........Anybody know??????????

    Like I said the old TMP program is dead  and  gone,  there are nolonger
    people  sitting  around  whose  main  job is to find a  job,  or  being
    crossed  trained  into  new  carreer, (with exception to those who were
    enrolled in a training program back last year).
    
    Hope this answers some of your questions
    
    Claude    

    As someone in DEC-Flex, 

    Rumor has it that Bob Hughes is at 40% of last years sales. Rumor in
    the field is that early October will bring down another 12,000.

I've heard from a couple of places that Sept 12th is 
supposed to be some kind of D-DAY or something with 
some major layoff announcements and also of a 3-3 retirement plan.

Anybody else hear this one?  

Mark

    When we eliminate 100% of the expenses, think how much money the
    company will make!  I thought people were an asset, not a liability.
    
    Perhaps I should worry.. after all, they did just give me a raise..
    
    karl

Once you get rid of all the field, think of how many DECvoice/DECtalk
units we'll sell to ourselves to take orders for PDP-11s (in eastern Europe)!

erik

    
    If Osterhoff made 400K a year, and we have quite a few VP's that
    probably make around that much...
    
    You tell me who needs to go and who should stay.

           
           What does anyone hear about the DS Logistics world?
           
           Steve
           
           
           PS- Will tommorrow (9/12) be D-day? ... "update at 11"

Watch them make a liar out of me and wait till..

FRIDAY THE 13!!! 

Mark  :^)

    re .14
    
    Sacking more senior executive because they make more money is false
    wisdom. Sacking more senior executives because they are the prime
    contributing factor to our current state is another matter...
    
    q
    

    
    Asking them to take a pay cut wouldn't be unreasonable. 

    just heard the word springfield is close to death !!

    
     I spoke with someone that received a memo regarding how the new round
    of terminations will be handled. It said that the past method shall be
    discontinued, no more 1 day notice. Supposedly, they hold a meeting,
    afterwords staff members being terminated are notified. They have
    access to their all-in-one account and vtx. They receive assistance
    from personnel in seeking a new job. They are given 5 working days.
     
     Has anybody else seen this announcement or memo or whatever?
    
    

    As far as I know, the logistics are still based on local management (at
    some level), not any corporate directives that would prevent the wor
    most distasteful practices.  So, the experience in one area may be a
    poor guide of what to expect somewhere else.
    
    Dick

    
      re.17  Well said!

            <<< HUMANE::HUMANE$DUA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;2 >>>
                          -< The DEC way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 1584.11                 calm before the storm ?                    11 of 23
SAURUS::AICHER                                        8 lines  10-SEP-1991 16:24
                               -< September 12 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've heard from a couple of places that Sept 12th is 
supposed to be some kind of D-DAY or something with 
    some major layoff announcements and also of a 3-3 retirement plan.

Anybody else hear this one?  

Mark

    ****************
    
    Any further info on this? I've heard nothing.
    
    John

Nothing.  and I'm sorry for winding everybody up,
but this one seemed pretty credible having heard it from
two different places, from somebody in Salem and somebody in the Mill.
Also, somebody in Maryland heard the same
thing but the date was a little different.

FAR-REACHING coincidence, eh?

All I know is 

...a billion dollars is alot restructuring money.

...They're going to have to start spending it soon.

Mark

    That they are smarter than most of the rest of us?

    
    that says to me that they needed some spending money so they sold some 
    stock :0).
    
    actually what it probably says is that this quarter isn't going to be 
    very good... i don't know what it means but I don't recall lots of
    ballyhoo about quarter ending results prior to 3 years or so
    ago...maybe it means we've aligned with Wall street in terms of
    thinking only of the short term ?
    
    
    
    

For what it's worth, $5,800,000 is probably less than 5% of Ken's holdings, e.g.
(assuming common stock) 100k shares at $58.  I don't remember if he holds 2 or
3 million shares - anyone?

My guess is, being an engineer and an entrepreneur, he's helping start up
some really fascinating, promising, possibly complementary (but more likely
not, as it's his own money rather than the company's) enterprise.  There's
more than one way of being a leader.  

If I were a betting person, I'd say he's eyeballed some research or prototype
involving innovative, environmentally correct manufacturing methods, or maybe
material science.  Something that the BOD sees as having no connection to the
enterprise known as DIGITAL, that may or may not have some connection to it
in K.O.'s mind.

On the other hand, I could be totally wrong: he may finally be taking some
financial advice and putting 5% into (for example) precious metals, i.e. gold.

Purely conjecture - but more likely than any doomesday scenario.  I'll worry
when they tell me he's sold that much every second business day for 40 business
days (or some pattern implying same).  I see no evidence in that direction.

Plenty of other things, including some in this conference, to worry about.

    re .26
    
    I would venture to say that is probably the most he (K.O.) is allowed
    to sell at one time, being a principal of a corporation.  As for Sims,
    he is free to sell as much stock as he wishes.  It seems V.P.'s at DEC
    are as plentiful as V.P.s at most banks, and about as ..(..regarded).
    
    More significant is the implication that these two stockholders do not
    believe that DEC stock will be back around $70 a share any too soon.
    
    Mike
    

    
    All I know is that I'm selling all the stock I acquire in December
    and then I'm getting out. I can use the extra cash every week these
    days.
    
    

    Re: .31
    
    Even if the stock goes lower, you can make money. Granted, 15% of $50
    isn't as much as 15% of a larger number but if you sell on the day 
    that you buy, you will make 15% (give or take a little). Where else
    are you going to find such a sure thing (as sure things go)? It is a
    low risk high return. So why pull out of the ESOP ? It's easy money to
    my way of thinking. Am I wrong???
    
    

    The answer is simple, Ken and other VP's who have access to information
    we wish we had, have decided based on the information they have that 
    DEC stock's august price of $70 is a good price to sell! Could they be
    wrong? the odds are heavily in their favor; actually the sell-off 
    is probably responsible to some extend for the recent DEC stock debacle.  
    
    fd. " Who, foolishly, is still holding on"      

    I believe that as a Corporate Officer Sims is NOT free to sell what
    he wants.  He still has to go through some form of internal approval
    process.
    
    I agree that they now know that the stock will be anemic for many
    years, and it's best to grab what you can and run.....sad.

    Re:                       <<< Note 1584.32 by NYEM1::GRAY >>>

    I agree, no other  place  to  make  that kind of return with  no  (or
    almost no) risk.

    A little nit, it's  at  least 15% of whatever money you put aside for
    ESOP, regardless of the share price, (and since other investments are
    usually measured in a time period, like % interest per year, then the
    return is so much bigger, since you get at least 15% on money you put
    aside as little as one week before).
    
    As many people, say, I cannot  afford  NOT putting the maximum in the
    ESOP.
     
    OLD
    

    I believe if you have the same amount witheld throughout a period, and
    sell the day after the end, worst case you make the equivelant of a
    60% annual interest rate. If the stock went up much during the six
    months you can do lots better then 60.
    
    Marty

    The Employee Stock Purchase Plan ESPP is such a good deal that you
    would even make money if you BORROWED the money using a CASH ADVANCE
    from your VISA card to fund it.

    Here's a sample scenario...

    Let's say you're going to have $1000 taken out of your paycheck for
    ESPP over six months, which works out to be $38.46 per week. Let's
    assume that you take out a $1000 cash advance using your VISA card,
    which charges 21% interest, and that you put it into a savings account
    yielding 4.5% interest. Each week you take $38.46 from savings to
    replace the money deducted from your weekly paycheck for ESPP. At the
    end of the six month period, you IMMEDIATELY sell your stock and pay
    off your VISA cash advance.

    The very WORST you can do, even if the price of the stock drops
    dramatically during the six month period, is a clear profit of $77.68,
    or about 8%, taking into account the savings interest you earn, the
    profit from the sale of the stock, and the interest on your cash
    advance that you must pay. If the price of the stock has risen during
    the six month period, your return will be MUCH GREATER. For example,
    using this scenario, if the price of the stock has risen 10%, you will
    realize a NET GAIN of 20%, while a rise of 20% will yield a net return
    of 31%. Remember, this is the ACTUAL RETURN on a six month investment,
    using BORROWED MONEY!


    MORAL OF THIS STORY: You have ear wax for brains if you don't do ESPP
    to the MAX, even if you have to borrow the money to do it! ;-}


    Disclaimer: BEWARE! This scenario does NOT WORK, if you do not sell
    your stock immediately, and then stock price drops after the ESPP stock
    purchase date.

In the above scenario you must also include interest on your credit card
(not directly tax deductable) as well as paying income tax on a) the
'discount' of 15% that you get and b) gains that occur from buying at one
face price and selling it at a higher one.

    re: .38
    
    finally someone who can see the "whole" picture...

    Re: Note 1584.38 by SMOOT::ROTH
    
>                  -< include taxes and borrowing interest >-

    The cited example already did take into account the interest you would
    have to pay on the credit card cash advance, as I stated in the
    example. And, of course, you do owe tax on any gains. I thought that
    went without saying... Even so, you still make money!

    With reference to Ken's selling of stock...
    
    Bear in mind that about a month ago Digital announced it's intention to
    do a stock buyback so as the "fill the pool of stock available for
    employee purchase".   Maybe KO is just helping with this effort...
    
    q
    

    If someone contributes $100 per week into the Stock plan, that would be
    $2600 after 26 weeks.  That person realizes a 15% gain on the whole
    $2600 investment even thou that person's investment has been $100 per
    week instead of having $2600 tied up for 26 weeks.  So the net gain is
    some where around 30% since the average investment for the 26 weeks was
    only $1300 and that person is getting 15% of $2600.
    
    Dave

    Now I'm no financial wizard, and I don't pretend to know a lot about
    the virtues of borrowed cash, BUT...the absolutely last place I would
    go to borrow $1000 dollars is VISA!
    Doesn't VISA expect a payment every month?
    
    Besides,a top precept on Wall Street is "buy low and sell high."
    And that's a tough order when dealing with DEC stock!
    
    The lesson of the crash of '29 was, I thought, that those who wanted
    to make money were buying the stocks which were bargains.  
    
    In these troubled times I prefer to invest in myself; work a little OT, 
    pull some stand-by, be and feel more productive - and get paid for it.
    
    
    Mike
    (who likes a free lunch
    but almost always pays)
    

    Both K.O. and John Sims, as Corporate Officers, are bound by SEC rules
    regarding the sale of stock.  Advance notification has to be given to
    the SEC and approval granted before any Corporate Officer can liquidate
    any stock held personally or in a trust fund in which they have
    material interest.  It would be foolheardy to look solely at the stock
    sale transaction and come to a conclusion that both individuals are
    using inside information to gain financially.  The SEC rules are
    structured to prohibit such activity, with huge fine's for anyone who
    violates the insider trading regulations.  Moral:  Don't jump to a
    conclusion, without understanding the facts behind the action.....
    
    Jay

    Re: Note 1584.43 by QBUS::M_PARISE
    
>   Now I'm no financial wizard, and I don't pretend to know a lot about
>   the virtues of borrowed cash, BUT...the absolutely last place I would
>   go to borrow $1000 dollars is VISA!

    Of course it is the last place to borrow money. This was only intended
    as a worst case scenario. So, pick a better place to borrow money, say
    at 11%, and see how much better the return is.

>   Doesn't VISA expect a payment every month?

    So, make the miniumum payment each month. In this case, the return will
    be even greater. Another thing you can do to make the return greater is
    to take out a series of smaller cash advances over the six month
    period, as needed, instead of all up front.

>   Besides,a top precept on Wall Street is "buy low and sell high."
>   And that's a tough order when dealing with DEC stock!

    The beauty of ESPP is that you ALWAYS buy low and sell high, no matter
    what the market price of DEC stock is, IF YOU SELL IMMEDIATELY. The
    program is structured with a built in guarantee. 

>   In these troubled times I prefer to invest in myself; work a little OT, 
>   pull some stand-by, be and feel more productive - and get paid for it.

    I like to think of ESPP as part of the compensation package the company
    has given me for the work I give to them, if I choose to use it. I
    believe that DEC has truly put together a program that is a real
    benefit that every employee should take advantage of, if they are wise.
    In addition to this, I think your approach is also wise.

    Re: taxes
    
    I sold my ESOP shares a few years back ($160/share).....felt good
    until income tax time :-)
    
    If you've held onto your stock long enough so that it becomes a
    "long term gain" the tax percentage rate isn't too painful.  In my
    case, I had to cash in because of an emergency.....my shares fell
    into the "short term gain".......I took a bath at tax time.
    
    Karen
    
    

Re: <<< Note 1584.43 by QBUS::M_PARISE >>>

.43> In these troubled times I prefer to invest in myself; work a little OT, 
.43> pull some stand-by, be and feel more productive - and get paid for it.

You are one of the fortunate ones to be able to garner an immediate
reward for your extra efforts... many digits are not as fortunate and
have to wait 15-24 months to see how much their butt-busting earns them.

Lee

Re: ROI

Example: Invest $100/wk
      	 Total Investment $2600
     	 Purchase Value of Stock at 15% Discount $2600/.85=$3058.83
     	 Return $3058.83/2600 = 17.65% on your investment

     	 It is in six months therefore is 2 x 17.65 = 35.3%

     	 The average time your money is tied up is 3 months therefore
     		the annualized Return on Investment is 70.6% - try to beat 
     		that in the credit union.


Re: Taxes - you do not have to pay taxes on money you do not make.

Re: KO Sale - it is just possible that he had to sell some options or loose 
     them.  They time out after 10.25 years.

>             <<< Note 1584.45 by RIPPLE::KOTTERRI "Rich Kotter" >>>
>                   -< Ways to further increase your return >-

>    The beauty of ESPP is that you ALWAYS buy low and sell high, no matter
>    what the market price of DEC stock is, IF YOU SELL IMMEDIATELY. The
>    program is structured with a built in guarantee. 

The programme is structured with a built in guarantee for those
employees who bank in US dollars. For those of us who use a different
currency, we are exposed to fluctuations in the exchange rate between
the US dollar and the currency we use. Even if the stock is sold on
the day of issue, guaranteeing your 15% gain on the share parice, you
still need to wait nearly two weeks for the stock cheque to work its way
through the internal mail and then to be paid into your bank account.
All this time, the exchange rates can go up or down, affecting the 
value of the sold stock about the same order of magnitude as if it
was still being traded on Wall St. If ESPP took the exchange rate on
the day of sale and used this to issue a cheque in the appropriate local
currency, then non-US employees would have the same peace of mind
of getting their 15% as those who bank in US dollars.

Craig

    re: .48
    
    The 35+% annual return makes the assumption that you take the proceeds
    from your sale and reinvest it so that your new investment yields
    17% return over six months.  There are investments that have this
    potential (Seabrook Bonds, anyone?) but there is RISK!  (ie. you 
    can loose.  If you take the proceeds of the Stock Sale sale, take 
    a portion out for taxes and reinvest in a Certificate of Deposit 
    at 7%.  Your annual return is closer to 8% (after taxes).  

    Just a nit: ESOP went down the toilet when DEC and everyone else,could
    no longer take a tax CREDIT (one dollar off income tax for every
    dollar's worth of stock given to employees) when they gave stock away
    to employees.
    ESPP is the employee stock PURCHASE plan that is being discussed here.
    Also,there is no more short and long term gain for tax
    purposes,everything is taxed like ordinary income.
    
    BTW: I sold my ESOP shares in June '87 when the price was
    $162/share...I never regretted doing that.
    
    Ken

    re: .44
    
    The "rules" for officers and certain employees cited there for selling
    stock are incorrect.  Rather than create a tangent regarding this, if
    you need to know, then contact Investor Services.
    
    The operative word is "disclosure".

...
(FORWARDS DELETED)

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     12-Sep-1991 09:04am EDT
                                        From:     Mark Steinkrauss
                                                  STEINKRAUSS.MARK AT A1 AT CORA
@ CORE
                                        Dept:     Investor Relations
                                        Tel No:   223-7182

TO: See Below

Subject: Stock Activity


The stock has been under pressure the last two weeks due to a variety 
of factors.  They are as follows:

1.    Subdued messages re tone of business from the Company.

2.    Numerous comments from other vendors re weak tone of demand ... 
      NCR being one of the most recent.

3.    Announcements re Jim Osterhoff and Bob Glorioso.

4.    Disappointing results for the Company in the just announced 
      Cowen/Datamation Computer Industry Survey.

5.    Continued mixed signals re U.S. economy coupled with projected 
      slowdowns in the European and Japanese economies.

6.    Disappointment re progress of the VAX 9000 effort.

7.    Momentum of SUN, HP and IBM.  IBM did well in the Cowen survey 
      with AS400, RS6000 and the newly announced products of 
      yesterday.  They were weak in PCs.

8.    Uncertainty re future success of acquisitions.

Brad and I will keep you apprised of any future investor sentiment 
when we return from the Cowen Conference.

Regards,

Mark

    re: .46
    
    There is no longer (since 1986 or thereabouts) any difference in the
    tax rate between long-term and short-term capital gains.  If I'm not
    mistaken, the only reason you continue to account for them separately on 
    schedule D (or whichever one it is...) is to limit the write-off of 
    capital losses.
    
    Al
    

    The previous formulas should also take into account that the holding
    fund does not pay interest.  If I had invested the $100/wk into a money
    market fund (or investment of your choice) over the 26 weeks I would have a
    higer value on my $s.  Therefore subtract that (9%) from you ESPP
    profit.
    

    .53 contained a mail message with no indication that the author of .53
    had received permission of the author of the mail message, to post it
    in a notes conference.
    
    When the author of .53 receives such permission, .53 will be unhidden.
    
    Bob - co-moderator DIGITAL

    Alan (the author of .53) has indicated that he has the permission of
    the author of the mail message to post it.  As such, .53 has been set
    unhidden.
    
    In the future, if anyone is posting a mail message WITH the permission
    of the author, if you will preface the mail message with text
    indicating that you have such permission, it would save all of us a
    lot of work.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob - co-moderator DIGITAL
    

Re .57:

I invite the moderators to place specific conference policies in writing in the
policy topic, 1.*.  Their fair judgement seems to have sufficed so far.


Neither corporate policy nor written conference policy in 1.* requires proof of
permission accompany postings.  The policy of this conference is alleged to be
that the moderators will trust that the members will act with common sense and
prudence.  (I interpret that as meaning that the moderators will trust by
default that members have obtained cross-posting permission, etc.)

I don't begrudge Bob his right and responsibility to check on anything that
concerns him, and he definitely behaved as one expects a good moderator to do so
on the net.  I certainly considered .53 to be a significant document, although
there were other reasons besides talking to Mark on the phone beforehand which
lead me to believe that it was at worst "Digital Internal Use Only".  And I
acknowledge that existing corporate and conference policy put the risk and cost
on the moderators to take time to deal with questionable cross-postings.  But up
until now, that has been part of the "dues" of being a moderator.

Yet I have no desire to contribute to an erosion of the prevailing atmosphere of
trust in this conference by silently aquiescing to a "prior restraint" rule. 
Next year, perhaps a moderator will be tempted to insist that all cross-postings
carry corroboration from the original author.  I won't give people ideas by
posting a scenario for 1993.

I don't know whether all the moderators have discussing this issue today
beforehand or not.  However .57 imples to me that all the moderators are no
longer going to trust any of the conference membership to follow corporate
policy 6.54.  If so, then note 1.0 ought to be amended to reflect this
unfortunate state of affairs.

	-or-

Perhaps in retrospect the moderators will consider it sufficient to take this
opportunity to reaffirm the bond of trust by reminding the membership to review
1.* and policy 6.54.  (They could do worse than to insert the relevant
paragraphs in 1.*; the topic already contains more specialized memos from the
Law Department).  It's reasonable that folks recognize how the moderators put
their necks on the line on their behalf.
				/AHM/THX

RE: .58

>Neither corporate policy nor written conference policy in 1.* requires proof of
>permission accompany postings.

The PP&P section on proper use of the network states explicitly that mail
messages may not be posted in notes conferences without the express
prior consent of the original author, and that such postings must have the
original message header intact.

>Next year, perhaps a moderator will be tempted to insist that all cross-postings
>carry corroboration from the original author. 

As one who considers cross-posting without obtaining the author's permission
to be, at best, a gross breach of etiquette, I would welcome such a rule.

--PSW

RE: .58

FWIW, it has always been my own policy, in the several conferences that I
moderate, that it is incumbent on the author of a note to demonstrate
to me that they have proper permission to post somebody's mail message, if I
think I have reason to question whether they have such permission.  It is
not my responsibility as moderator to do the leg work for such things.

--PSW

    STOP!
    
    This set of notes has the topic heading "Calm before the storm". It had
    been about what was happening around DEC as we all brace for yet
    another set of layoffs/whatever the PC word is today.
    
    First there was ESOP rathole, and now I sense the Moderator rathole.
    Let's move each of those elsewhere, and carry on with the stated topic
    at hand.
    
    It makes me crazy to see long discussions on how to exactly calculate
    ROI when Rome/Maynard's burning.
    
    IMHO,
    
    /Tim
    

Re .59:

In my opinion, .53 conforms to policy 6.54.
				/AHM

           RE: Note 1584.61 -< STOP!   STOP!     STOP!   Please! >-


           AMEN! AMEN ! AMEN!
           
           
           Steve
           
           PS- WHAT'S THE LATEST ON LAYOFF'S?

    
    I'm just glad to hear that Digital didn't lose yet another excellent
    and valuable engineer. Many have been lost and Digital deserves the
    worst for letting it happen.
    
    /prc

.64>The only good part is that this individual found a better-paid and more
.64>responsible job within a week.  The bad part is he will NEVER stop
.64>hating Digital for the rest of his working life.
    
.65>I'm just glad to hear that Digital didn't lose yet another excellent
.65>and valuable engineer. Many have been lost and Digital deserves the
.65>worst for letting it happen.

Re: .65

We should await clairification by .64's author... nothing was said that
indicated the person stayed with DEC.

Lee

re: .65
    
>    I'm just glad to hear that Digital didn't lose yet another excellent
>    and valuable engineer. Many have been lost and Digital deserves the
>    worst for letting it happen.
    
What makes you think that they still work at DEC? I read nothing in .64
that implies that. I believe that they found work outside of DEC.

- George

    .....yeah, sorry.  Sorry.....it's with another company.  He was
    solicited by a head-hunter whom he had never even contacted
    previously.  Digital's loss and his gain.

    People, I deleted my .64.  I realized that I put just enough
    information in there that "someone" might be able to track my
    description to him.  In the present climate of corporate insanity
    I don't want to do anything to jeopardize him in his last few days.

>================================================================================
>Note 1584.64                 calm before the storm ?                    64 of 64
>COOKIE::LENNARD "Rush Limbaugh, I Luv Ya Guy"        17 lines  18-SEP-1991 14:51
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    
>    Have the inmates really taken over??
That's a rhetorical question, right?

    There was a time I would have said yes....now, I'm not so sure.

    Ref 31...48
    
    I've always considered the ESPP plan a no-brainer.  If the stock is
    sold immediately, the risk is minimal and the return is fantastic.
    I had difficulty convicing fellow employees, so I created a speadsheet
    (using the FVA function) to calculate the return.  The way I look at,
    I ask the question what annualized interest would the bank have to pay
    in order to get the same return that ESPP provides?
    
    The main reason I look at this way, is that the tax penalty is the
    same (i.e. ESPP gains and bank interest are taxed as income).
    
    Using the $100/week example, $2600 would be available to buy stock.
    Assuming a FMV of $60 per share, 50 shares could be purchased at $51 and
    sold for $60.  So an investment of $2600 returned a gain of $400 in
    six months.  In order to get $400 of interest in six months from a
    bank, the bank would have to pay 68.5% interest per year.
    
    
    .ref Corporate Officers selling stock.  I'm sure they must provide
    notice in advance of selling. 

    Re: .73
    
    >   Using the $100/week example, $2600 would be available to buy stock.
    >   Assuming a FMV of $60 per share, 50 shares could be purchased at
    >	$51 and sold for $60.  So an investment of $2600 returned a gain of 
    >   $400 in six months.  In order to get $400 of interest in six months 
    >  	from a bank, the bank would have to pay 68.5% interest per year.
    
    I disagree with the 68.5% figure.  To figure the interest rate:
    
    Payments           = $100/week (made at the beginning of each period)
    				   (total payments = 26 * $100 = $2,600)
    Number of Payments = 26        (each week)
    Future Value       = $3,000    (You purchase 50 shares at $51/share)
    				   (You sell 50 shares * $60/Share, ignore the
    				    transaction costs involved)
    Present Value      = $0 
    
    The result for Interest is 1.0429928%/week.  Multiply this by
    26 and you get 28.28% return for the 26 weeks.  If you could
    somehow re-invest $3,000 for another six months at 28.28%,
    you could have an ANNUAL return in this area.  
    
    
    This is equivalent to investing $2,275.67 today in a Certificate
    of Deposit and six months later getting back $3,000.
    
    
    

    Both .73 and .74 neglect the fact that you are investing $100 a week,
    not $2600 for 6 months.  You don't have $2600 invested until the last
    week of the payment period.  In fact you don't have the money (it comes
    piecemeal in each week's paycheck) so you couldn't have invested it in
    a CD for 6 months.
    
    Back to the calculators folks ...

A couple of notes in this string seem to imply that you must achieve a 
specific return for a full year to get the defined apr.  That is like 
saying one must drive for a full hour to be driving at a rate of 60
miles per hour. 

    Isn't there another topic in this notes conference where we can discuss
    the DEC employee stock plan.  If not, let's start one and get on with
    "the calm before the storm", or has the storm blown over?

    
    
    	re .78
    
    	I agree wholeheartedly. Stop discussing the stock plan here and 
    	get back to the main topic.
    
    	So, any more news about the rumored layoffs that are coming 
    	Oct. 7 or thereabouts?

    I like the idea of a note to discuss employee investement options in
    DIgital. I don't want this kind of information to go away but if it
    must leave this conference, I for one hope it reappears somewhere else
    so I can continue to learn about this and other employee investment
    opportunities which are specific to Digital.

    
    	It doesn't have to leave this CONFERENCE; it's just a good idea
    	to have it discussed in a separate note, to avoid going down the
    	proverbial rathole.

    RE  Any news?
    
    I think Note 1606.15  by SCAACT::RESENDE says alot....
    
    >They did confirm that downsizing will hit in October, altho one
    >caller's figure of 10,000 was disputed by DZ (I believe) along the
    >lines of (paraphrasing) "I don't think there will be 10,000 in the
    >field" ... one might question the "in the field" portion to indicate
    >the number might not be invalid, just the scope of the area.

    Hmmm...What percentage is the Field?   
    Might it be e.g. 5K from there...5K from Mfg...5K from Eng.
    (which is being clobbered as we speak) etc.
    Who knows?  A billion is a lot of bucks, or a lot of dead 
    bodies (maybe 20K), or a lot of big buyouts for big shots.
    
    What will we see?  Some major elimination of entire organizations?
    In reality, how can there be some major D-Day at a corporate level?
    
    If that is the case...this has to be the best kept secret ever.
    I've been pretty much used to hearing the "crackling of gunfire" 
    in the distance.
    
    Mark

    If a senior VP doesn't know how many layoffs there are going to be,
    then who does?
    
    
    Mike

    
    There's an article in today's Globe about Eichhorn. The article
    SUGGESTS that this might be a purge. The number of visible folks
    leaving so close to each other has the Wall Street types worried
    and confused.
    

    This reply is about the layoffs, so don't hit that NEXT UNSEEN key.
    
    In an on-the-record interview, Bradley Allen, manager of Digital's
    shareholder relations told Ted Smalley Bowen of Digital Review
    (independently published, by the way) that the "decision" is to
    downsixe the company by 20,000 to 25,000 employees by the time it's all
    over"  DR Sept 23, 1991 p.4
    
    This is the first time I've seen that number "25,000" in writing from a
    Digital spokesperson.  Earlier I've only seen that number from industry
    observers who said that 10,000 was too low.  I don't know what the base
    is for that number, from the high water mark of employees (including or
    excluding employees in acquired companies...) or the current number of
    employees.

    Any truth to the "rumor" that KO will step down OCtober 6 and on 
    October 7 Mitsubishi will buy out DEC?
    
    Carl

    RE: .85 I believe that he was including all the people we've
    already let go. The press has done this all along. Every time 
    we lay off 1,000 people they report the total number of people
    we've laid off since this started so the numbers are always
    inflated. So if we've already laid off 10,000 or so people
    an other 10-15,000 would add up to the 20-25,000 DR quotes. And
    that's in line with every other rumor I've heard this quarter.
    
    			Alfred

re: .85
    
>>    In an on-the-record interview, Bradley Allen, manager of Digital's
>>    shareholder relations told Ted Smalley Bowen of Digital Review
>>    (independently published, by the way) that the "decision" is to
>>    downsixe the company by 20,000 to 25,000 employees by the time it's all
>>    over"  DR Sept 23, 1991 p.4
    
    
    This quote of "20,000 to 25,000 employees by the time it's all over"
    is attributed to John Jones, an analyst with Montgomery Securities
    in San Francisco, *NOT* Bradley Allen of Digital.

re .86:

Don't forget the other part of that rumor -- that Mitsubishi will give
two years' salary to departing employees.  Tee hee.

re:86 

Yes, Ken told me personally that he's tired of this nonsense and will work
out the deal to sell DEC to Mitsubishi.  

He want to raise dental floss in Montana.

			Bob 

It's a natural for Mitsubishi -- cars, tuna, and computers.

    Actually it's not that far fetched (although I doubt that it is a true
    rumor).  Mitsubishi is part of a large conglomerate that now owns the
    company that my husband works for.   His company makes printers for
    computer companies of which Digital is one.
    
    

    As was said somewhere else in this conference,it's highly unlikely that
    the US Govmint would let a foreign company buy the world's second
    largest computer maker.
    
    Ken

re .93:

They can't do anything about it.  The second largest is a Japanese company.
We're #3.

> They can't do anything about it.  The second largest is a Japanese company.
> We're #3.

Well, things are close.
The June 15, 1991 Datamation 100 has separate North American and World-wide
rankings of companies based on IT (presumably "information technology,"
formerly DP, for "data processing) revenues for 1990.
Worldwide, IBM leads with $67.1B, DEC is second with $13.1B, and Fujitsu
and NEC follow closely with about $12.4B each.
Presumably, the contention of .94 is that one of these two has overtaken
DEC based on 1991 revenues to date.  (Or maybe both, and we're #4?)
Next down the list is Hitachi with a mere $9.6B.  Next after that
are two North American-based companies, Unisys and Hewlett-Packard, at
about $9.3B each.

Just to put some numbers on things.....

- tom]

I was referring to Fujitsu.  When they bought out ICL (which I believe was
the UK's largest computer company -- did the UK gov't try to prevent it?),
they were supposed to become #2.  What happened?

    RE: Who is bigger. Don't forget we're in the process of buying up
    a $1B/year division of Phillips. At this time it's a moving target
    who is bigger. Unisys was bigger then us for a couple of days after
    those two companies joined. Seems like some room has opened up between
    us since then.

    		Alfred

    If we looked at the same list so ICL was listed there later.
    Furthermore, ICL has now purchased Finnish PC manufacturer and
    multivendor integration company (in Finland) Nokia Data. I calculated
    that together they were bigger than Digital. But to my understanding
    Fujitsu and ICL are formally separate entities. Perhaps they just
    don't want to waken us up quite yet.
    
    Ritva
    

    FORTUNE Magazine July 29 1991
    -----------------------------
    
    World Top 15 Computer Companies (inc Office Equipment)
    -----------------------------------------------------
    (ranked by Sales)
    
    			Sales	Profits	 Profits as % of
    			$M	$m	 Sales     Assets
    
    IBM			69018	6020	  	9%		7%
    Fujitsu		17974	 603		3%		3%
    HP			13233	 739		6%		6%
    DIGITAL		13085	  74		1%		1%
    Canon		12208	 424		3%		3%
    Unisys		10111	 437 loss (4%)      (4%)
    Olivetti		 7543	  50		1%		0%
    Bull		 6408	1247 loss (19%)     (22%)
    NCR			 6395	 369		6%		8%
    Ricoh		 5959	 111		2%		2%
    Apple		 5558	 475		9%		16%
    Compaq		 3626	 455		13%		17%
    Pitney Bowes	 3267	 213	  	7%		4%
    Esselte		 2770	 264		10%		12%
    Wang		 2635	 716 loss  27%	     37%
    --------------------------------------------------------
    TOTAL	       179789   7398	
    Median		 6408	 264		3%		3%	
    -------------------------------------------------------

In the same Datamation I referenced above, ICL is listed #20 in the world
with $2.9B in revenue.  Nokia is listed at #45, with $1.3B.

- tom]

    .99:
    
    Ah, so Canon and Ricoh are bigger computer companies than DG, Wang or
    Prime?  And Pitney Bowes and Esselte sell more computers than Sun?
    
    Dick

    FORTUNE 500 COMPUTER COMPANIES (Inc Office Equipment) 
    ------------------------------
    (ranked by Asset Value in Billion dollars US)
    
    
    			Assets		Rankings on Profits as %
    					of Sales   	of Assets
    	IBM		87.6		  3		   5
    	FUJITSU		18.8		  9		   8
    	CANON		13.5		  8		   9
    	OLIVETTI	12.5		 11		  12 
    	DIGITAL		11.7		 12		  11
    	HP		11.4		  7                6
    	UNISYS		10.3             13               13
    	PITNEY BOWES	 6.1              5                7
    	BULL		 5.6             14               14
    	RICOH		 5.3             10               10
    	NCR		 4.5              6                4
    	APPLE		 3.0              4                2
    	COMPAQ		 2.7              1                1
    	ESSELTE		 2.2              2                3
    	WANG		 1.9             15               15
    
    

    Ranking by assets is bunk.
    
    Income, or _Return of Equity_ or _Return on Assets_ are valid
    measures.  Assets are a worthless measure.
    
    Do excellent companies accumulate property and inventory for its own
    sake?

    Patrick
    
    All statistics are _bunk_ used to bolster whichever argument the
    proponent is trying to sell.
    
    "Methinks the honourable member is using statistics like a drunk uses a
    lamp-post..... for support rather than illumination" (Disraeli in a
    House of Commons debate.)
    
    The trend in companies' Stockholder Funds (Net Assets) is a useful 
    measure of you are going to invest. 
    
    
    John