Conference 7.286::digital

    No, but it sure sounds like the "new Digital".

    Re: .0
    
    Join the crowd!  From conversations with many of my COD classmates &
    others it looks like when the next axe falls it will strike COD people.
    
    While it is ironic that one spends so much money on people only to 
    discard them it does make short term business sense.  The relocation
    and training costs are sunk costs.  Long term, however, this will make
    employees avoid any career risks.
    
    It also does not help when COD funds are stripped away leaving a unit
    manager with a bloated cost structure upon which he must now make a 
    profit on.
    
    All I can offer is to say that no matter what happens you must feel
    that you did everything possible to succeed and wish you luck.
    
    Mike

    I have sensed the same thing.  I didn't do COD, preferring to stay with
    my group.  I got the impression during COD interviews that the folks I
    interviewed with were really trying to get some of the best people out
    to the field.  My skills were seldom a match for what they were looking
    for as in my case they were looking for someone with even more
    experience than I had.  And, the impression I had was that COD was 
    designed with the intention of getting more expertise out there.  Seems to 
    me that if COD met this goal it would be pretty foolish to let these folks 
    go. Digital will not benefit by first selecting out its expertise, moving
    it to the field and then letting it go.  Just wouldn't make sense.
    
    Steve

    Uh,    Just a quick question.  What is COD?  Did that come before 
    COE or are we working our way backwards?
    

    re .3;
    
    IMHO, it's been a good while since ANYTHING around this company made
    sense.
    
    -dave

COD stands for Career Opportunity Days.  It was a corporate effort to get
expertise from the inside out to our customers.  There were three 3 day
events called COD I, COD II, COD III.  Sales and Sales Support managers
from the field went to MRO to interview candidates interested in field
positions.  Candidates who pre-qualified with the managers, went on
interview trips to the prospective sites to interview with others, and
get a feel for the job and location.  After acceptance of the position,
the employee is relocated to the new office; paid by DEC.

Last April I relocated to the San Diego office from Parker St.  Overall
the whole relocation went very well.  Some glitches, as might be
expected.

While I was interviewing, I had heard rumors to the effect that people
who accepted positions in the field would be targets for a layoff.  I
felt that this was just a deduction from someone who 'wasn't going to
fall for this ploy'.  Then, shortly after I relocated, the funds from 
corporate dried up leaving DM's with the bill.

I would deduce that since:
	A) expenses are an issue and the AGM's (post DM's) are footing
	     the bill for subsequent years relocation costs or just have
	     a bad taste from last years costs
	B) some COD employees are still ramping up to becoming full
	     contributing members of the team
	C) corporate is seeking cuts

		...that COD people are more likely to get hit, particularly
if they aren't bringing in the revenue.

Dan

    It's axiomatic that, in any downsizing operation, the benefits package
    is less with each successive downsizing stage.  It's also axiomatic
    that the least valuable employees, i.e., the ones that are offered the
    earliest downsizing severance package, get the best package.  Life's a
    bitch and then you die.

    re .4
    
    In the past 1-2 year timeframe Digital put on a major recruiting effort
    internally called Career Opportunity Day.  The company marketed very
    aggressively this program which required submission of resume and a
    scheduling of appointments for a particular day at MRO3.  Each of the
    9 areas had a recruiting staff and a table (room) to interview any
    interested candidate to transfer into sales and sales support jobs.
    
    Non sales type people were encouraged to move into sales.  More feet on 
    the street.  IBM had done something very similar just before this.
    
    COD = Career Opportunity Day
    
    paul f

    Re: .2
    
    The axe has already fallen on some COD people, including some who
    attended the TDP training program, which lasted from five to seven
    months and cost Digital a small fortune.  The costs included housing,
    per diem, travel expenses, relocation expenses, overtime (students in
    the program were temporarily made wage class threes per federal
    regulations for a retraining program), etc..  Relocation was especially
    expensive for folks who had to sell houses in the depressed New England
    market, and DEC had to absorb huge losses for those relocations.
    
    Why did DEC spend so much money on this training?  This company is 
    lacking in certain crucial skill areas, and Ultrix is one of those, so 
    the latter part of TDP focused heavily on Ultrix.  The cost of the 
    program was therefore justified as an investment in DEC`s strategic
    future.  This seemed to make sense, as DEC is heavily committed to "Open
    Systems", and Unix is a currently a big part of that environment. 
    Currently, many parts of the country are short on Ultrix resources, and
    hiring for those resources (sometimes EXTERNAL hiring) is taking place
    even as we speak.  So Ultrix resources are precious, right?!  Not to
    some DEC managers, apparently.
    
    Some of the folks we trained at such great expense were laid off
    without even being put to work---fresh from the training program!  (And
    while we`re hiring for their skills elsewhere in the company!)  This
    huge waste of DEC`s money was matched by the human tragedy of people`s
    lives being disrupted by five to seven months of training (away from
    home for many), followed (for some) by uprooting their families and 
    relocating them to unfamiliar places, far from their friends and extended
    families---only to become unemployed.
    
    This horror story is matched by many others I`ve seen, like laying off a
    successful salesperson with 19 years of service, and replacing her with
    two external people.  How`s that for saving big bucks and rewarding
    loyalty and performance?  The stories of stupidity and callousness are
    to numerous to repeat.  After eighteen years of service with DEC, I`m
    horrified by our company`s prospects and depressed by its decline in
    business acumen and moral fiber.  
                   
    I sincerely hope that we can turn things around as a company, but I see
    decisions which are intended to cut costs increasing costs.  I see
    decisions which are intended to increase account focus and control
    decreasing account focus and control.  I see decisions which are
    intended to increase customer satisfaction decreasing customer
    satisfaction.  I see decisions which are intended to improve expertise
    in a particular field decreasing expertise in that field.  I see
    decisions which are intended to increase revenue and market share
    decreasing revenue and market share.  In short, I see managerial
    incompetence everywhere!
    
    Sadly, the majority of us have little control over our fates.  We can
    only work as hard and as smart as we can to help DEC to cut costs,
    increase revenue and market share, increase customer satisfaction,
    increase expertise, etc., and we can only share our ideas about what
    needs to be done.  None of that will do any good, however, if key
    decisons are made at higher levels which negate anything we can do. 
    (Like consolidating regions to make them larger, so that most folks
    have to travel more to conduct business---now there`s a real cost
    saver!  Also gets managers closer to the customer, doesn`t it!)  
    
    I`m sorry that a reply which was originally intended to be
    informational (COD folks already getting the axe) became a soap-box
    speech, but I had to get it off my chest.  I`ll go back to my job and
    continue to pray for the enlightenment of our leaders.  At this point,
    they`re the only hope we have left, and prayer is the only tool we have
    left to help them.
    
    Good luck to us all.  We`ll need it.
                                  
    
    
                                               

    Re .9:
    
    Hey, I've been with DEC two times for a total of almost eight years. 
    Enrolled in COD because my wife was offered a transfer from her company
    and I wanted to get closer to our customers.  My position was not
    eliminated and a replacement was hired to fill the slot I vacated.
    
    I have only been in my present role since February with a product that
    has an 18 month sales cycle.  Needless to say I have not generated any
    sales.  Want to guess on whether I will make it to 9 years at DEC?
    
    While everyone here probably agrees that downsizing is necessary this
    has got to be the stupidest layoff program ever implemented.  Does
    anyone wonder what will happen when stockholders hear of this?  It 
    doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar...
                                    
    Mike

    The real solution .9, et al, is a surgical airstrike, using our latest
    smart bomb technology, on Stow (OGO).  Around 9 A.M. on any working day
    would be nice, as all the conference rooms are then full of "managers"
    making their latest informed decisions.
                                        

    Related to layoffs. To weeks ago a good friend at Unisys let me know
    that they would be letting 20,000 go next year. Lots of operations
    consolidated etc. Well, in VTX today Unisys made that announcment.
    
    What a crappy industry, wave of the future..sure. Should have gone into
    worm farming.
    
    

Not sure there is any substance in this topic to detract from, but i heard
another version of this unattributable rumor that said a significant number
of the COD placements were not technical heavyweights improving the quality
of the field but administrative types who just about broke under the stress
of having to go through a heavy technical retraining that was way over their
heads.  And that if you didn't pass the training you didn't get paid for
(in addition to having a scarlet "L", as in Lay-off, pinned to your shirt).

Who was managing this program?  Seems like an expensive way to go about
laying people off...surely that couldn't have been the original intent.
Somewhere buried in those old stacks of DECnewsprint handouts that flooded
every facility for a while there must be the name of the COD program
manager...can't that person speak up and tell us what's really going on?

(Moderators, feel free to delete this note without prior warning: i only
enter it to counterbalance the other notes here that seem to say COD is
causing our "best and brightest" to get relocated and then turned into
instant lay-off fodder far from home...which i hope isn't the case!)

								paul

    re: .3 - .12  The thing that really concerns me is not how lobotomized
    DEC policy is becoming but does this reflect policies in other
    companies? In short, if the season for hope in DEC is almost dead, does
    it live anywhere else?  On the other hand, I certainly do continue to
    care about DEC's survival (how long will it with this incoherent
    approach?) and it makes me very mad to think of the penny squeezing
    cost-cutting instituted and driven by the same folks who would throw
    hundreds of thousands away by dumping COD folks. It is wrong ethically,
    moraly and is brain dead business sense.  It seems to flow from a lack
    of the ability to stay the course and to implement a consistent
    strategy which must follow from weak leadership at some point. It would
    almost appear from this and other equally senseless actions across the
    company, that there is a calculated plan to pull DEC down. One can
    hardly believe that but at the same time the apparent stupidity of
    spending lots of money of COD folks to only dump them is equally
    unbelievable. It is very hard to believe that KO and other high level
    folks could be aware of this and permit it. If those in middle
    management don't care or can't apply sanity to this confusion, then
    those higher up must be made aware of it soon. Then again, maybe all
    this steam venting is useless, and the real question remains; what do
    other companies do when it comes to applying intelligence to layoff
    policies. If we end up having to leave and have the luxury of choosing
    our landing spot, it would be nice to know.

    My own datapoints include that I didn't get bites on the COD positions I 
    was looking at because they wanted more specific expertise than I had to 
    offer.  I'm not a VMS guru or a PC guru which is what the folks I was
    talking with were looking for.  (I am a 'guru', BTW, just not in these
    areas.) I personally know three people who went to the field, at least one 
    of them was with COD.  All of these are very technically competent and at 
    least one of them was management.  I'm not personally aware of anyone that 
    went to the field that was not brought out because of technical expertise. 
    This is why I feel that many (if not most) of the moves were done to 
    increase the technical expertise in the field.
    
    I don't know what others have seen.  But, I haven't seen anything that
    indicates any kind of conspiracy to hurt the company.  What I have seen
    are sincere attempts to adjust and change for the good of the company
    and to the benefit of individuals.  Given this, laying off any of the
    folks I've seen go to the field would seem grossly counterproductive.
    
    Steve

I was a COD I person and I have been in my job for close to two years now.
If there are folks who just finished training, they must be COD III.

I saw some groups go "'COD' fishin'" without any real plan for managing growth,
just snapping up some easy reqs...  (COD Headcount was supposed to be funded
by corporate for some period which I think was pushing 18 months).  Corporate
renegged on the alleged funding and some folks got caught with a lot of extra
headcount that they hadn't been planning to see for another year.

As the saying goes...

  "may you live in interesting times!"

My prescription to get out of this mess...

  "sell more stuff"


/mlm

    Re .16
    
    Exactly!  These managers were previously measured on how much revenue
    they generated.  Revenue was limited only by a lack of skilled
    technical people.  These technical people were now going to be provided
    and trained by corporate.  A few months later business dries up,
    corporate cancels funding, and management now will be measured on
    profitability.  Well now you have a staff composed of 2/3 proven
    specialists and 1/3 partially trained COD people.  Whom do you as a
    manager cut?  
    
    While I am sure there are washouts the predominant cause of COD people
    being terminated is due to the afformentioned business changes.
    
    Mike

    re: .13
    
    I am aware of three recent layoffs.  None of those was related to
    performance.  In one case, the person was laid off right after
    finishing training without having had a single field assignment.  This
    person did not flunk any training, nor did either of the two others to
    whom I refer.  All had been in the field too short a time to prove or
    disprove themselves in that arena, although all had proven themselves in
    a very long and intensive training program.  It is true that wash-outs
    from the training program were not paid for and were subject to rapid
    "downsizing", but my .9 note was not referring the them.  The persons
    to whom I refer all passed their training with flying colors (and they
    WERE graded stringently).  Furthermore, it would have made no sense for
    the company to expend all those bucks (BIG bucks) on a program like
    this if was going to be a staging area for rejects who would then
    receive even more big bucks from a transition package to leave the
    company.  
    
    No, this was not a conspiracy to hurt DEC, nor was it a calculated plan
    to ease out "weak sisters".  It was a good idea which was botched by
    incompetence.  DEC has become very good at developing good concepts,
    then fumbling the ball in the execution of those concepts.  Nobody is
    making these stories up.  They are real, and it won`t go any good to
    ignore them and hope they aren`t true.  What we need to do is to take
    notice of things that go wrong, determine why they went wrong, and
    eliminate the causes.  In many cases, that probably means a different
    downsizing target---some of the decison makers!
    
    
    
     

    
    
    	It reminds me of a "Far Side" cartoon somebody in the office
    modified to reflect the same feelings expressed in this note.
    The cartoon is titled "COD"  and in it is a fishbowl with a huge
    plume of smoke and flame rising out if it.  Outside the fish bowl
    stand 3 fish on the table looking at it saying "Thank goodness we
    all got out on time, of course, now were equally screwed".  The
    fishbowl is labeled "Corporate DEC", the fish standing on the Table
    are labeled "The Field"
    	
    	To me this cloud has a silver lining to it.  I came out to
    California with COD III, and since the first formal lay-off
    announcement in January I have felt vulnerable to it.  BUT!!!!!!!
    I realized that getting laid off may be a fact of life, and If
    I have to face it where do I want to be.  In Massachusetts with
    the highest unemployment rate in the country?  Or in the Silicon 
    Valley where I can take my PC Integration skills elsewhere.   My wife
    is a COD/TDP'er and believe me the layoff thought has come across 
    our minds alot, but if she didn't take the move she would have
    been bought-out probably during the first couple of passes.
    Now at least, we each feel that we have a chance of getting a new
    job if our current ones go away.  In the future when the economy 
    is going in the right direction I will look into moving back, 
    on my own finances if I have to. 
    
    	Bill
            
    

    These are indeed sad, bad times. No-one seems to have correctly
    forecast the true effects of the recession upon DEC, along with the
    rest of our industry.
    
    It remains the responsibility of our company officers to try and ensure
    DEC's survival and, through increasingly desperate times, we all are
    going to see increasingly desperate measures such as those described in
    this topic.
    
    Sure, there are screwups going on. There are also some definitely good
    developments in all areas of the company, including products and sales.
    
    I guess we all have to work to minimize the screwups and maximize the
    revenue, because that's the way we'll get out the other end of the
    tunnel with the maximum number of people still here.
    
    I'm very sorry for the people leaving this company because of our
    difficulties - indeed I may yet be one, along with other readers here,
    there are no guarantees on any of our jobs.
    
    	- andy

    Someone asked how other companies do it.  They do it in the simplest
    and fastest manner possible.  They just look at where they are heavy
    and cut.  No retraining programs ( except IBM, and I don't thing they
    laid them off after they trained them), no relocations.  Just cut where
    you need.  It's actually better for the company and more humane for the
    people.
    
    The irony here is that DEC was indeed trying to be a better company to
    it's employees.  We do it all the time.  I have seen DEC make more
    messes out of trying to be the nice guy than you can believe.  The real
    problem is in implementation.  The ideas were good, but there was no
    real plan, no communication, no buy ins.  It was let's try this and see
    what happens.  I can tell you we have lost a lot of business for the
    same reason.  We are our own worst enemy.  In sales they say they spend
    more time selling to DEC than to the customer.  It is absolutely true. 
    We need to fix that first before we will get out of this slump.

    Re. 19
    
    Maybe your happy DEC relocated you to Silicon Valley, and maybe with
    two incomes you may even be able to afford your new home there without
    DEC's paychecks....   But I don't think the folks re-located to
    Oklahoma or Washington State will share in the golden economy of
    Silicon Valley...  Yes, the Massachusetts economy is in shambles and
    most other places present a better opportunity, but without contacts or
    very large demand for your specific skill set, you will find just 
    keeping food on the table an interesting exercise in your new found
    home.  I know I had a better network in the east, then I do in Phoenix
    and opportunity is often only as good as your network.
    
    
    

Guess I'm one of those "partially trained" COD II folks mentioned a few notes
back.  Since I relocated to Maryland via COD on 04/01/90, I've been trained to:

  - Support these database engines & layered products on VMS:  dBASE, Rdb,
    Ingres, Informix, Oracle, Sybase.

  - Support these on U*IX (mostly SCO & ULTRIX):  Ingres-ULTRIX/SQL, Informix,
    Empress, Oracle, Sybase.

  - Manage a VMS VAX, including tuning and demonstrating these
    products:  DECdecision, DECtrace, RdbExpert, DECwrite, DECpresent, and
    all the VMS performance and tuning software.

GSG no longer needs the above, so I'm in the "at-risk pool" of people--5 of
the 8 who relocated via COD, including the 1 woman and 2 blacks who came. We'll
be "downsized" from DEC on July 8th.

    Regarding, .23, assuming no other issues such as performance issues,
    I just can't believe someone with your skills is at risk.   If there
    is a method to the madness, I don't see it.   I wish I could offer
    some job leads.   I can only hope that we don't see these talented
    ex-DECies out there selling Oracle against us!
    
    Is it me or is this whole "right sizing" process taking on a more
    and more surreal air to it?
    
    -> "DO the right thing" by going to the field (COD), just to be laid
    	off?
    
    -> "More feet on the Street" = more feet in unemployment?
    
    -> Sales support and EIS people in strategic areas such as database,
    	Unix, etc... being laid off?
    
    -> Digital wants to be player in SI, but lays off its project,
    	technology and industry expertise that its invested in over the
    	past 3 years.
    
    This is difficult to understand.....

No, performance isn't it.  One of us has 12 years with DEC, is a solid 2
performer, and has 4 certificates of merit from field service for his work
with external customers.  In January, I was nominated for Information Management
Partner (that's database); in April, my performance review had mostly 1s and
2s, after 12 months with the group and 7.5 years with DEC.

They just don't believe they need what we know.

I always swore I'd never compete against this company, but after the
severance and unemployment run out...BUT NEVER ORACLE, Heaven willing.

    re: .-1
    
    My own personal favorite, per my own situation, is that a personal
    situation is requiring me to locate to a partiular (unnamed, to protect
    the guilty) district area in the northeast.  An EIS manager, with whom
    I have had 2 interviews, wants to bring me on board as an "opportunity
    manager" (business development;  doing bids and proposals, etc.) but
    can't get his boss to OK a slot to do business development, despite the
    fact that minimal/no relocation would be required, I'm an internal
    hire, etc.  
    
    Last time I checked, based on places I've been before and from running
    my own business, that if you don't have anyone doing business
    development, you very shortly won't have much business.  It sounds like
    the philosophy is still to "wait until the customers break down our
    doors to do integration work for them" rather than what seems to be
    reality:  it's a tough climate out there and someone needs to be
    bringing in the integration business or we'll shortly be seeing TFSO 5,
    TFSO 6, TFSO 7, ....
    

    .26 should refer to .24, not .25;  notes collision.

    
    Good experience with relational databases and/or system management 
    (either VMS or U**X) are very desirable skills to have.  DEC's loss 
    will be another company's gain.  I know that doesn't make your
    situation any easier.
    
    			Bob 

Thanks for the words of encouragement.  Those in our own group who'll remain
(mostly the U*IX-only folks) rarely speak to us anymore.  That includes our
cost center mgr, who did the recruiting in MRO.  I try to remember that, if
this package is like the last, we can come back in just 2 years. 

    re:  .29
    
    ...but would you *want* to come back?

RE:                    <<< Note 1496.23 by FRYE::CASEY >>>

What's GSG?

Are you telling us...
	...that no one in your unit/district has sold a VAX w/VMS over
	   the past year?
	...that the installed base of VAX/VMS customers have hummin' machines?
	...that none of your customers have any databases?
	...that, maybe, you are a less senior redundant resource?  Someone
	   else, who's been w/the group longer, has this expertise?

This doesn't jive.
Dan	   

Re .30:  Yeah, I'd like to come back.  Out here in the "field" isn't "my
Digital," the place that gives to charities, values differences, sends
Ken-Olson-signed letters when your father dies and does what it can to enable
its people...you know, all that stuff that makes us different from Wang and
its layoffs.  That Digital makes some pretty hot hardware and darned elegant
software and is becoming a decent systems integrator, too.  If that Digital's 
still around somewhere, I'm still dumb enough to want to work there.


Re .31:

>What's GSG?

  GSG=Government Systems Group.  My piece of it = Government DCC, Technical
  Services.  Until 3 weeks ago, we put together the hardware/software solutions
  for Government bids estimated at, usually, $50million or more.  4 of our folks
  won the PCLAN bid for DOD that was written up in "Digital Today" 2 weeks ago.

>Are you telling us...
>       ...that no one in your unit/district has sold a VAX w/VMS over
>          the past year?

  Right.  Only VMS bid was to NASA and the results aren't in yet. Everything
  else architected/bid was U*IX-DOS.  Under reorg, the  DCC's only emphasis on
  VMS will be in health care support, but even Digital Standard MUMPS now
  is ported to ULTRIX so that will likely start to skew away from VMS.   

>...that the installed base of VAX/VMS customers have hummin' machines?
>...that none of your customers have any databases?

  Philosophy here is "after it's sold, someone else will support."

>...that, maybe, you are a less senior redundant resource?  Someone
>   else, who's been w/the group longer, has this expertise?

  Hard to tell.  But it looks like the expertise will be bought from SWS ACES
  if it's needed.

    re:  .32
    
    "coming back"....I'm in the field, too, and was part of
    COD I. In talking with some friends from back east, the
    whole "direction", atmosphere and "family feeling" there
    USED to be with DEC is long gone. I've noticed this feeling
    since coming to the field (and thought it was just because
    I was away from the GMA), but even the GMA folks are feeling
    the same thing I am.
    
    I, too, miss the "old DEC". Having been with DEC 14 yrs, I've
    seen a lot of changes and downturns. The business climate during
    those times seen to remain positive....but for the last 3 yrs,
    there's been an *awful* lot of negative waves, bad decisions,
    etc.....this is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Like the basenoter, I left a secure job (at T and N in Littleton, MA)
    to relocate (to the Proposal Design Resource Center in Alpharetta, GA) 
    thinking that I was helping the company as well as myself. Now, I also 
    am "at risk."
    
    I hit the deck running here, contributing to a successful DEC proposal
    to McNeil Consumer Products in Penn. a few weeks after relocating.     
    Since then, I have worked on several winning proposals. Everyone with
    whom I have worked has been very pleased with my performance. Several
    letters of commendation have been sent to my manager(s).
    
    My performance is not the problem -- my "function is being downsized."  
    Unfortunately, my skills are not technical. I have been a writer and
    editor for 17 years with DEC, and have a broad knowledge of our
    products and services, but I am not a technical expert in any one
    field. I feel that the ability to communicate clearly in writing is
    almost as important to successful selling as having the right products,
    but apparently those who make the decisions do not agree.
    
    So now, not too many years from retirement age, I find myself forced
    into the job market. I am not terribly optimistic about my chances,
    judging from what I've heard from other mature job seekers.
    
    Ironically, when I was in the process of relocating, a couple of people
    said to me, "What would prevent you from going through the relocation
    and then quitting DEC after a few months?" And I naively replied, "Oh,
    I wouldn't think of doing that. I have a real commitment to DEC, and
    feel very loyal to the company." Well, I guess it doesn't work the
    other way around.
    
    If the rumors are true (and most of them have been), July 8 will be the
    day. In the meantime, I'm going on vacation next week and hope I can
    completely forget about DEC and what has happened to it in the last few
    years.
    
    
          
    
    
    read this, pl

    The last line of .34 is not a plea to "Read Me" but an inadvertent
    leftover that should have been deleted. 
    
    Anne

    My God, how sad!  If this is really what's happening to good Digital
    people, then I hope we don't make it!
    
    COD is/was another example of the super-hyped, high-visibility,
    Corporate-funded fiasco that we are so good at.  The now defunct 
    Target Sales Force being another example.  I think we truly believed
    that all we had to do was put enough feet on the street, and the good
    old days would magically reappear.  BTW, IBM has had exactly the same
    experience with their massive move of resources to the field....zero
    additional revenue.
    
    BTW, what's the isssue with the blacks and the woman?  Why even bring
    it up?  You're not remotely suggesting that they should have some form
    of special consideration, are you?
    
    What's forcing these ill-advised lay-offs is the mindless
    implementation of the New Management System (Management?).  Managers
    are looking ONLY at business they feel really comfortable with, and
    then staffing and budgetting just for that.  NMS will kill us.  Who's
    gonna take a chance, and keep valuable resources around?  Not our
    average manager, that's for damn sure.
    
    BTW, IBM has not yet had any form of involuntary separations.  They
    are depending much more on the voluntary/early retirement route.  I
    cannot understand why we don't do the same.
    
    Finally, I see a report this morning saying that DEC may take a $750M
    write-down for FY91, and move the 9-10,000 numbers previously mentioned
    up to 15,000.  It's absolutely amazing!  We're committing Corporate
    suicide exactly on the DG/Wang model.
    
    Well, at least I feel better now.....no, I don't.  I really feel like
    crying.                                 

    It would be interesting to see what response future programs such
    as COD get in light of these developments.
    
    Mark.

    re: .32
    
>    ... the place that ... sends Ken-Olson-signed letters when your
>    father dies...
    
    FYI:  This happens even in the field.  I got a KO letter when my father
    died a couple years ago.
    
    -- Russ Pavlicek @DCO
       (who works in the same office park as you do, if I'm not mistaken)

    re .37  ......  One would hope that any future corporate wet dreams
    like COD would get the response they deserve...might one suggest
    "studied indifference"?
    
    What ever happened to that great Zereski-sponsored upheaval to 
    reevaluate everyone in the field?

    re: .39
    
>    What ever happened to that great Zereski-sponsored upheaval to 
>    reevaluate everyone in the field?
    
    As far as I know, everyone in our district (at least) had new
    performance appraisals done.  So, I think most people were "upheaved".
    
    -- Russ

Our managers in the Government DCC were told that they had to re-evaluate
everyone who hadn't had a review in calendar 1991.  Reviews had to be done
by, approximately, April 15th.  One manager reviewed his 20 people; the other
still has done nothing.

Upshot:  The reviews had nothing to do with deciding who'd be axed on July 8th.
A number of 4 performers remain; several 1 and 2 performers will go.  Go figure.

    Can Ken really be aware of what is happening at this level?  If he is,
    he's not the guy I thought he was.  If he's not, someone should tell
    him.  I can't believe he knows.

At 11:45 this morning, I'll get my--do we say "exit" or "layoff" or "fired"?--
interview.  We knew, implciitly, that this would happen this morning.
But, no, we weren't sure until our manager's secretary came around at 9:30 or
so to tell us when our interview was scheduled today.

Here's a quick profile of the four people who'll be let go from the Government
DCC this morning:

  - We all came via COD II.  The first, 14 months ago; the last, 7 months ago.
    Wives gave up their jobs "up north" for the move; children changed schools;
    a baby was born in Virginia, far away from the mother's family.  

  - We have a combined total of 51 years with Digital.

  - None of us made the relocation because our pre-COD jobs had been eliminated.

  - We have a total of 7 university degrees, 5 of them in engineering.

  - We include 1 Electronic Publishing Partner, 1 very senior networks/comm
    engineer, 1 storage design engineer with 20 years' Digital experience,
    1 Information Management Partner.  

  - On our last (April 1991) performance reviews, we got mostly 2s, a few 1s,
    a couple of 3s.

  - As a group, we don't have many non-Digital friends in the Landover area yet,
    because we've worked so many nights and weekends trying to succeed. 

I'm the one single person of the four.  Now wishing fervently that I hadn't
believed the COD promises and left my mother, sister, brother-in-law,
godchildren, and friends in Massachusetts to come to Maryland.  I've learned
a lot, technically, in 14 months and that should make it easier to look for
a new job.  But I've also learned, I think, some limits to commitment.  For
better or worse, the new employer will be just that.  And when he asks for a
year-plus salary freeze, believe that I'll start looking somewhere else.  
Digital's taught me that loyalty is emphatically a one-way street.



 

re: .43

>  - On our last (April 1991) performance reviews, we got mostly 2s, a few 1s,
>    a couple of 3s.

How is this possible with only four people?  Or does each person's review
contain multiple numbers?
									paul

P.s.  good luck

>  - On our last (April 1991) performance reviews, we got mostly 2s, a few 1s,
>    a couple of 3s.

I believe the noter meant that each person got mostly 2's on the various
areas of their goal sheet, a few ones, etc.

    re.43
    be glad they gave you a ride to Maryland.
    
    You could be here with your friends and family all looking
    for the same few jobs!
    
    Remember the goal is to cut head count without killing Ma.   
    
    So first you move them to other states/then you lay them off.
    
    
    Good luck. 
    
    buzz

    First they came for my neighbor and I did not complain, next they came
    for my friend and I did not complain, now they come for me and there
    was no one left to complain.
    
    So far two out of four COD people in my group have been TFSOed.  I am
    waiting for them to get around to me either in the next few minutes or
    Tuesday.  What a waste.  
    
    Goodbye,  Mike

    I am waiting for them to come for me.... I am in a sales office of
    15 people (winston salem NC) and had 3 COD people walked out yesterday.
    They were looking for me but I am on vacation. I am attempting to stave
    off the process...don't know why..other than there are other
    departments hiring my skill. I was part of the TDP which was 9 months
    long including the extended Ultrix curriculum and internship. I was
    hired with the expectation that I would not be able to contribute
    before Q1 of 92. I was, however, finding ways to contribute. The work
    station business (we are a 3 member team) made our numbers for the
    year... My previous job is solid and theyare hiring more.. I spent 17
    years in this company and am morally outraged that they would pull me
    1000 miles from home, took a beating on my house, took alot of short
    term loses, and now am being cut. I thought we had a 2 year commitment.
    I have drafted a letter to KO and will enclose my clock tower badge.
    This company once prided itself on doing whats right...even built the
    company on it as one of its 17 basic principles of operation...
    
    bob 'who dosen't know who this company is anymore'

    Ugh, some pretty grim stories in this note!  I know a couple of other
    people affected by this who have not chosen to tell there stories here,
    also - makes me wonder how many COD people have been cut?
    
    Can anyone say if the Q1 "package" for the unlucky folks getting tapped
    this week is the same deal as the one for last quarter?  Or is it less
    generous?  The Globe had an article last week that said that DEC was
    supposed to make an announcement to its employees yesterday about
    layoffs for the new fiscal year, but no one here (HLO) heard anything,
    not even my boss, so maybe whatever the current "package" is was only
    announced to those immediately impacted??
    
    I really wish this company was not making it up as we go along - even
    in organizations that have not been cut much (we have gone from 92
    people to 87 people here in the last fiscal year) people are very
    nervous, and it is impacting productivity.
    
    /Charlotte

    
    > The Globe had an article last week that said that DEC was supposed to 
    > make an announcement to its employees yesterday about layoffs for the 
    > new fiscal year, 
    
    	Yep, about 2,000 people got an "announcement" yesterday.
    
    	/prc

    COD and TDP appear to have been the kiss of death for many DEC
    employees and their families. My husband and 4 other COD/TDP
    people in his unit alone were given their walking papers yesterday.
    
    One year ago next Monday I was saying good-bye to my husband for
    5 months as he journeyed back East to retrain for his new position
    in Sales Support. It was a tremendous sacrifice to be separated for
    all those months but we were under the false impression that it was
    good for my husband and good for Digital. In retrospect it was only
    good for the Princeton Park housing people, the car rental people,
    the airlines and any other groups who Digital spent money with to
    train and relocate all those COD/TDP people. Because they spent a tone
    of bucks......
    
    If I sound bitter and disappointed it is because I am. I have lost
    faith in this company to "do the right thing".
    
    I'm not sure if there are any COD people left to read my message but
    I'm not sure if those that are left are the lucky ones or not.
    
    (The package was the same as TSOF2 and TSOF3).

    
    FWIW, the following comes from that controversial internal publication,
    digital today, dated yesterday, "Questions answered about downsizing":
    
      Q: COD moved lots of people into field positions. Have the number of
         COD participants been adversely affected?
    
      A: COD employees have not been disproportionately impacted.
    
    Of course, the following is also quoted from the same article:
    
      Q: Why weren't we given an opportunity to find other jobs in other
         organizations?
    
      A: We have made the decision that we would have a common announcement
         date for each employee and that everyone would have equal
         treatment to look at opportunities outside the company.
    
    Say whu-ut??
    
    
    (Prediction: the 8-July publication will become a collecter's edition
    for many of the "proportionately affected"...)
    

	RE: COD and all that

	As I described in an earlier note, I'm a COD transplant.  Cross-country
	in fact, Marlboro, MA to San Diego, CA.  I take some exception to
	thoughts and opinions related here by other COD folks.

	Regarding a disproportionate number of COD people being let go, that's
	to be expected.  For example, before I accepted the new position,
	I considered:
		- the state of the company: voluntary separations were happening
			and I deduced that involuntary separations were around
			the corner
		- new job: my MA job was secure, my new job would be insecure
			because it is a job with new tasks and responsibilities
			that I would have learn and quickly become proficient
			in, I'd be lowest on the seniority list, etc.
		- new manager: I interviewed the manager more than the position.
			This person was critical to my staying w/the company
			and making it in my new position.  If I couldn't trust
			the persons guidance there was no sense taking the job.

	After throwing all of this into the 'risk equation', my wife and I
	decided to take the risk.  We chose the danger.

	The exceptions to the above are the COD people who took DCC jobs, these
	jobs were questionable to begin with.

	Regarding the people who stated they were extracated from their jobs
	and homes, are they saying that it wasn't their choice to move?  They
	had no say in the matter?

	Dan

>The exceptions to the above are the COD people who took DCC jobs, these
>jobs were questionable to begin with.

You're reading into the govt. DCC case, for the most part COD was transfer to
district sales and sales support.

>Regarding the people who stated they were extracated from their jobs
>and homes, are they saying that it wasn't their choice to move?  They
>had no say in the matter?

Of course they made the choice, but it was misinformation that led them to that
choice.  UM's took all these people in because there was 18 months of corp.
funding.  Those managers who are responsible planned for the post-corp. funding
peiod, those who were irresponsible didn't, but it wasn't their heads who 
rolled yesterday.

In our district the corporate funding was removed after the COD
hires hit the field.  Since some unit managers were influenced in 
their decision by the 'free' labor idea, losing the funding didn't
help the situation.

By the way the above represents an opinion since I'm not a unit manager
and wasn't involved in the hiring process.

    I recall the COD process when the ISWS organization in Merrimack
    disbanded and was merged with IM&T.  Many of the 60 or so people went
    to COD and interviewed for field positions.  I also recal their
    comments after the interviews in which they were told that some of the
    positions were being funded through July 1991 but that beyond that,
    there were no guarantees.  
    
    I have to say that these folks were informed of the risks and that the
    guarantees were just not there.  Many of these people were positioned
    to make a choice as to whether they would take the chance in the field,
    knowing the risks, or taking a "safe" job.  I agree with the noter who
    states that the risks were known, for the most part.  I hate to sound
    insensitive to those who have been on the receiving end of the
    cutbacks, but the risks were there and were known.
    
    When taking on this type of interview, it is important to ask the right
    questions also.  Perhaps some of the folks, who are now surprised by
    the cutbacks, didn't ask the right questions.  I do know that most of 
    the folks I am acquainted with did.
    
    In summary, I can feel the pain that these folks are experiencing.  I
    can also imagine how I would feel if I were on the receiving end of the
    current economic woes.  Perhaps I will be some day.  I guess I'll have
    to take the responsibility for my own actions if it does happen.  It's
    not over yet.
    
    D_W

    I think it's a shame that some COD people are being let go after only a
    short time in their new, relocated field positions.
    
    I think it would have been more humane either to exempt them from the
    layoff, or to offer to move them back - to put things right, as it
    were.  Shipping them off to a remote location and then bagging them a
    year later just doesn't sound fair.  It takes a couple years to recover
    from a move, and it can take that long to establish yourself in a
    totally new organization.  Whether they knew the risks or not, and I
    sincerly doubt that they really did, I don't think they're getting a
    fair deal. 
    
    BTW, I'm a field Sales Support person, for the past six years, not COD.
    
    tim
    

    I have to respond to .56's note...
    
    I accepted a COD position during COD III. I moved across the country
    for a job that as it turned out, didn't remotely resemble the job I
    accepted. We were never told anything about the 18 months of corporate
    funding. I didn't ask because how should I have known to ask? I have
    never in the past had to ask about who was paying my salary. I did ask
    about the security of my job before I accepted it so I did realize that
    I was taking some sort of gamble.
    
    As it turned out, the COD position for me was intolerable and I have 
    fortunate enough to find a different position within Digital. But, I
    have tremendous sympathy towards everyone in COD... so much was not
    told to us... so much changed within months of starting our new jobs...
    those in my old group were here at most 6 months before we had to be
    reviewed for this series of layoffs... of those 6 months, at least 4
    months were spent in training...so after 2 months of real work, we were
    evaluated against a new process of goal sheets... not only did we not
    have a chance to prove our worth...we were guinea pigs for this new
    process of goal sheets... and those of us in COD who came from
    Corporate out into the field never had a clue as to what goal sheets
    were... For instance, I was working as a Technical Writer in MA, I came
    out into the field to work in a proposal center... now as a writer, you
    would think that your writing skills would be what is evaluated as part
    of judging your ability to do your job...nothing was mentioned on my
    goal sheet in relation to my writing ability....my ex-boss relied on 2
    months of gossip to come up with my review..
    
    To say the least, I am extremely grateful that I have managed to be
    hired back in an engineering environment...But  I will help anyone in
    COD fight or express their feelings of abandonoment and poor treatment
    by Digital... the company has been doing poorly, that is true, but
    those of us who chose COD positions took personal gambles without
    having been told everything about these positions...
    
    As it has been said many times already... the Digital that we once knew
    is no more...
    
    Judy

    re: .54
    
    In rough terms, approximately half of the COD transfers were to DCC's. 
    Of the remaining 50%, approximately half of those landed in New England
    districts.
    
    As far as corporate funding goes, it was pure backpedalling from day 1.
    The original agreement was no expense and no budget for 18 months for
    anyone transferred through COD.  That was immediately interpreted to
    mean only COD hires above BOD headcount.  After a couple of months,
    it was changed again so that only expense relief was granted; DM's were 
    expected to carry full budgets for people who were supposed to be 
    learning new careers.
    
    There is no question that culpability lies both with those who invented
    the process without demanding solid business plans for using the people
    and the hiring managers who applied no discretion in hiring way above
    what their business could support. 
    
    Al
    

    Well, the basenoter's VMS account can still receive mail....
    
    	- andy

    From an another view, the COD people that were moved into our sales and
    support organization were for the most part very talented and hard
    working contributors. The problem we had, not anymore after Monday, is
    management went wild with this idea of "free" bodies for 18 months. We
    took on more people than we had business, the economy went in the can,
    and the rest is now history.
    
    Interesting to note our accounts group lost a total of 9 people only
    three of which were COD.
    
    Frank

    There are lots of disturbing stories here of people being evacuated to
    the sticks before being dumped, but it is hard to get a feeling for the
    numbers involved.  Any guesses?  Of course it shouldn't be happening at
    all, but what is the magnitude of this debacle?
    
    Ian.

    I hestitate to enter into this discussion.  You all are aware that
    managers who have the power,position or what ever it's called to put
    you on the list of the ones to be let go, are reading this particular
    note carefully and are taking names.
    NO, I don't know the manager's name.  I do know a person from COD, that was 
    let go the other day and that the manager mentioned his participation
    in this note.
    My comments: The cost that DEC paid for this COD person in the
    15months he was involved totaled more than 250K.  To have spent that
    kind of money for what resulted in him working 6 months and then
    letting him go seems so unbeleavable to me. I have known him for over
    17 years.  
    
    BUT, hey, seems the headhunters in his area are telling him he was
    severly underpaid and that there are many opportunities for him TODAY.
    If he had been let go here, there are no jobs... 
    
    Murphys Law: His wife was let go from her non-DEC job on Tuesday.
    

    I think that COD was a gamble that both Digital and the employees
    lost out on.  DEC spent tons of money to relocate and retrain people
    in attempts to stave off layoffs that *could* have started two years
    ago.  Then DEC laid some of them off anyway, causing personal hardship
    and yet more expense to the company.  I truly sympathize with those
    in the COD wringer who were conned in one form or another; many were
    never told that lots of risks were involved, and that DEC could and
    would change the rules after all the agreements had been struck.
    
    Perhaps it would have been better if DEC had simply started the layoffs
    sooner without attempting the COD programs.  Certainly Wall Street 
    would have been pleased ...
    
    Geoff Unland
    

    I think the most distrubing aspect of doing COD was that it enticed
    people from positions in which they performed well at and were not at
    risks of being laid off from into positions where they were not fully
    prepared for and now are highly at risks to being laid off from.
    
    The program cost Digital millions, created disruptions when qualified
    employees left positions they knew how to perform and performed well in
    because they accepted the challenge to contribut more to the company in
    a new role.  Unfortunately, their training never allowed them to con-
    tribut to the level expected and management's grab for free resources
    reduced the opportunity to contribut effectively.  Now that management
    is not being effected but the loyal Digital employees who attempted to
    help their company by moving to the field are no longer here to contri-
    but to Digital's success...
    
    Is their any wonder why those remaining question when they will be
    asked to leave???
    
    

    re: -.1  Interesting.  I don't think that it was planned in advance to 
    entice folks to take positions from which it would be easier to lay them 
    off.  I may be doubtful of managment, but I would prefer to attribute
    this to incompetence rather than nefarious intent.
    
    Steve

    Steve,
    
    	I too would attribute this to incompetence rather than nefarious
    	intent, except for two incidents which bear on the issue.
    
    		A recruiter/manager from Atlanta told an associate
    		of mine during COD-3, that Digital had designed
    		this program specifically to disperse people out
    		of Massachusetts so that when they lay-offs came
    		as they surely would, Digital would not impact a
    		single local economy.  The funding was specifically
    		designed to bootstrap some people into positions
    		which were pipe dreams (if they person turned the
    		dream into reality then they would have a job next
    		year otherwise they would be out on the street).
    		Needless to say, my associate did not accept the
    		recruiters offer to relocate to oblivion.
    
    		A recruiter who was not successful in filling his
    		positions in Los Angelos complained to me that the
    		program was flawed because he was looking for spe-
    		cific talent which he knew there was marketability
    		for but did not exists in the numbers he needed.
    		Shortly after the COD-3 event funding for training
    		and first year expenses got cut off preventing him
    		from offering people he had carefully screened the
    		jobs he was trying to fill.
    
    It seems that timing (ie business that had been worked on for months
    or years prior to the COD events) and/or critical skill shortages
    produced positions which allowed COD personel to survive July 8th.
    
    But many of the positions offered were highly speculative and manage-
    ment was not necessarily truthful about the chances for individual
    success.  Managers were encourage to take the money and attempt to
    grow business where none existed, and the individual contributors are
    now paying for the speculation.   One might fault the contributor for
    getting themselves into this situation and not recognizing the risks!
    I can't fault them as much as the management that led to their depar-
    ture.  If would have been much more comfortable with termination based
    on performance (past and present), than what appears to have been ter-
    mination based on assignment of the day!  Some manager convinced the
    individual contributor to take this job (work on this project, etc...)
    and now the job no longer exists and the individual contributor no
    longer works for Digital.  The manager that convinced them that this
    was the best thing they could be doing for Digital, of course still
    has a job, maybe not as a manager but still employed by Digital!
    
    
    

    Well, you've got me there.  I can't tell whether such actions are any
    worse or better if due to incompetence or nefarious intent.  It looks
    like there were people in the corporation who called the situation
    correctly.  One wonders, prompted by what I read here, whether there
    existed some agenda that was not widely known or understood.  Either 
    way, I doubt that anything like COD (that is, a voluntary program to
    displace and retrain the troops) will ever be successfully run 
    again because of the mistrust created in upper-level decisions and
    commitment to those decisions.  This is really a shame because it is
    just this type of thing that Tom Peters credits IBM with as being one
    reason why IBM has been able to avoid layoffs over the years.
    
    Steve

    Steve,
    
    	One also wonders why upper level management allowed the situation
    	to erode its ability to motivate employees to strive for what's 
    	best for the corporation.  It will take a Herculean effort to
    	convince people that reskilling is in their interest and attempts
    	to react to market pressures will be resisted for fear that getting
    	marketable skills is a sure path out the door.  All the wrong mes-
    	sages in the environment we now find ourselves in.  The only class
    	of employee apparently exempt from this foolishness is management
    	itself, but can even they beleive what they are told?
    

    I agree.
    
    Steve

    Not all field managers jumped at the chance to take advantage of
    getting a "free" body.  I was speaking with a sales rep in a remote
    area who had been asked to sit in on the interviewing process with 
    a COD person.  The rep said the COD person definitely showed that
    he had the ability to become a viable support person.....and the rep
    was later surprised to find out that the hiring manager decided not
    to make an offer.
    
    When the rep asked his manager why he hadn't extended the offer, his
    manager told him that he had observed too many past programs....where
    someone would dangle a carrot and then snatch it back later.  The
    hiring manager said he had a bad feeling that the relocation cost
    offer probably would be withdrawn.....and if this were to happen,
    his  cost center would then have  to absorb the relo and it would have
    a negative impact on his existing employees.  The manager said the
    COD person was anxious to make the move....but had admitted his 
    wife and children weren't too keen on the idea.....apparently not
    everyone in Massachusetts wants to live in Florida :-)
    
    Obviously, this was one manager whose gut instincts were correct;
    he made it clear he didn't have a pipeline into any information to
    back him up early on, it was just a feeling that he had at the time.
    Time has proven that manager right....
    
    Karen
    
    

    RE .70
    
    I've worked with this individual over the past 3-4 years and must
    express my continued awe and his ability to focus in on the root causes
    of a problem.  Perhaps that's why I enjoyed working with him so much. 
    Keep up the good work PN.
    
    DW

    re: COD layoffs
    
    I recently received a memo which claims that the percentage of outplaced 
    COD people isn't unusually large (please note that this is the claim 
    of the memo's author, not me).
    
    Since I don't have permission to print the memo here, I will simply
    quote from a small section:
    
    "Only 18% of the field reductions were COD hires.  This represents only
    a 7% reduction of the COD placements (150 out of more than 2200)."
    
    If I understand the statement correctly, that would put the number of
    (U.S., I presume) field people "outplaced" at roughly 834.
    
    -- Russ

    Just got the word, go look for a job!  I have about 30 days to relocate
    in DEC.  I'm a 14 year veteran, originally a Systems and Programming 
    Guru.  Now a Sales Support Consultant since Feb 1990.  
    Would like to stay in sales support, but am open to all challenges
    at DEC.  If you know of any opportunities for a seasoned DP person
    please contact me via A1 at HST Skiest or ushs01::Skiest .
    
    HOping to be around another 14. 
    
    Thanks in advance 
    
    Alan
    Resume on request
    441-6035

    	There is still sporadic hiring here at the CSC in Colorado Springs.
    	My group (VIA -- layered product customer support) has filled all
    	its slots.  But there are still other groups that were hiring
    	quite recently and may very well still be.
    
    	Contact our personnel folks out here.  Try DTN 592-5106.
    
    	Joe Oppelt