Conference 7.286::digital

In order to discuss this rationally re: Digital's activities, I believe it would
be pertinent to know whether these sales/deliveries took place before or after
August 2, 1990. Is that information available? My feeling is that prior to the
Iraqi occupation of Kuwait and the ensuing UN resolutions, there were no
compelling reasons not to be doing "business as usual" with Iraq, or any other
country not under a trade embargo or export limitation of some kind.

-Jack

    One does not need a "Trade Embargo" to not deal with a particular
    country or company. If DEC or anyone else can not see what a particular
    "Dictator" is doing in a third world country, then shame on them. If
    dollars mean that much to our company in selling "Sadam" computer
    equipment regardless of dollar amount that some "ivory tower" VP better
    go see a head shrinker. There is in this case of "Iraq"  in doing
    "the right thing".

    Just because we don't agree with a country/leader's politics,
    doesn't mean we would refuse to sell to them because we feel
    we are on a higher moral level.
    
    The Denied Parties list is the official list that says who we
    can and cannot sell to.....even then it's tricky if a couple
    of countries decide to act as re-seller or intermediaries, etc.
    Isn't that what happened to DEC a couple of years ago....we didn't
    sell directly......there were 2 or 3 companies in between, but
    DEC got hit with the fine from the Feds.
    
    There was a rather interesting tongue-in-cheek article in the
    Atlanta Journal last night stating the reason Gorbachev was 
    exerting such pressure to prevent a ground war is because if
    Iraq totally falls.....he's lost one of his best clients.....G
    Gorbachev wants to preserve what's left of the Soviet military
    investment in Iraq and guarantee the Soveits a role in the 
    continued Middle Eastern turmoil.
    
    I'm sure we've not been selling to Iraq since this mess started;
    and before it started we thought Iran was our reason to worry in
    the Mid East.
    
    Karen
    

    There is and always has been a problem in controlling sales of our
    equipment outside the borders of the US.  Its along the same lines of
    selling software, people are not trained or are, but choose to ignore the
    policies and procedures that are involved.  We have an exports dept and
    some good people that can help.  But DEC makes a lot of sales every year. 
    I have been involved and seen cases where people within the company but
    outside the US will ignore the policies of the company and the US
    because they have determined it is not in any way detrimental to them
    or their country to export to whomever they choose.  That more
    doesn't find its way into the wrong hands is a testament to those that
    try to control the problem with the little resources and help they
    get.  It is not always possible to control the actions of resellers
    and other third parties.  Much of the business outside the US is not
    done direct by Digital or its subsideraries. 

So, I repeat my question of .1 - When did these transactions occur?

If prior to Aug 2, 1990 we would have been doing reasonable business with
Iraq just like anyone else in the world (except Iran!). If after, that's
different. If prior, what's the issue? If after, well, draw your own
conclusions . . . 

-Jack

Re: Note 1380.2 by GRANPA::JFARLEY

>    One does not need a "Trade Embargo" to not deal with a particular
>    country or company. If DEC or anyone else can not see what a particular
>    "Dictator" is doing in a third world country, then shame on them.

I'm glad it's so clear to you to whom we should sell or not sell. Now how 
about a decision on Chile, Panama, Poland, Niger, India, Japan, Thailand, 
Canada, Israel, Egypt, Ireland...

Stephen

    Referring to note 6- It is a thing whether you want to believe it or
    "having Moral Conscience". You did mention it in your own "hit" list
    of countries. If you don't have some moral platitudes then let us sell
    some Vax 9000's to dear old Russia, but I am sure you could raise some
    objections to that. It really does matter in my book of morals, who we
    sell to but I guess it doesn't matter to you. I guess the almighty 
    dollar must prevail to meet you sales quota for the quarter. I am just
    returning your slice, should we proceed any farther?????

Of course it matters to me to whom we sell our products and how they are used. 
My point was that "see[ing] what a particular "Dictator" is doing in a third 
world country" doesn't sound like very definitive criteria, and it's too easy.
If you think you can use a 'moral' judgment of the customer's behavior, then 
what do you do in the difficult cases, for instance the countries I listed.

Stephen

    
    FWIW-We stopped doing business with the Iraqi embassy after the embargo
    was placed on Iraq.
    
    
    Mike