Conference 7.286::digital

    Contract personnel who work for Digital do so on temporary basis, they
    are employeed by employment companies and I heard that those companies
    were duly notified that Digital would need their employees after last
    friday, in my own opinion, Digital has done the right thing by those
    employees... I know of a few who had been taken to lunch, who were
    given many nice gifts and mememtos by fellow workers, and well, I trust
    Digital and its employees. I am sure they did well.
    Ana
    

    Jon, I too have a acquaintance that was affected by this R.I.F. and 
    they were indeed given only a few minutes notice. I guess in these
    days of big business and economic hard times this is going to become
    standard procedure, alas!
    
                                  Art

    
    I believe we are talking about contractors here...and not temps.  It
    shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone as Jack Smith mandated a
    20% cut about a week before in his "I Want...." memo.
    
    Sunmmary departures are a way of life for Contractors.  I used to 
    manage an organization in MKO that had from 15-20 contractors on board
    at any given time.  Notifications on a Friday not to come in next week
    were very common.
    
    In general, contractors know the rules of the game....and I've had many
    tell me that they prefer to work like this.  No tears please!
    

	I was a contractor for seven years at Digital and other places.
	This is part of the game when you are a contractor and if 
	you aren't prepared for it, you shouldn't be contracting.
	I never personally faced a fifteen minute notice
	but it was in fact, in every contract I signed. 
	I did get notice once on Tuesday that Friday would be my last
	day at Honeywell, (along with three other contractors)
	but it was something I was prepared for.
	
	In fact, some of the justification for higher contract hourly
	rates is a premium for just this type of risk. The fact that 
	the risk actually came to be is too bad, but its in the
	nature of contracting.

	Incidentally, I don't think this effected technical contractors
	did it?

AS an EIS consultant, I've had this happen to me more than once.  The shortest
notice weas being told at 11:30 AM that my services wouldn't be required 
after lunch, since the system component I was working on had just passed 
its acceptance test.

-dave

    Short notice is indeed common. I started at NQO as a temp order picker
    on 3rd shift. After 2 weeks we were told that after 7 we would not be
    needed and to not come back that night. The only reason I was shocked
    was that my agency had told me that afternoon that my contract had been
    extended and was now "open-ended". I guess the end was closed sooner
    then they or I thought. I was called back within a month and hired
    during the great hiring spree of 1984. So alls well that ends. At least
    so far. BTW we were told at 3:00 in the morning and some people walked
    out at that point. They were never called back. I know of one person in
    my building who did this same thing last Friday. I belive our people
    were given notice at lunch time. Sad, but the way of the world these
    days.
    
    Phil

    "The way of the world", "that's the way it goes", etc, maybe my values
    are too old-fashioned.  In this particular case, the temp was NOT via
    an outside agency, but a "DEC temp".  She had just gotten word last
    week that her contract had been signed thru March 1991.  Then Friday
    afternoon (less than 4 hours before the end of the day), she was told
    about this thing.  Granted, her manager really agonized over it, but
    the end result was still the same.
    
    In order for people affected like this to be able to plan for their own
    futures and the future of their families that just might be depending
    on that income, I still tend to think that Digital could have given
    them more than a few hours notice, if not from a legal/personnel
    standpoint, then at least from a viewpoint of moral decency and human
    respect.
    
    Sorry, I reserve the right to disagree with what appears to be the
    majority opinion here so far...
    
    Jon

    Well, Jon, I agree with you as well.  I'll explain why.
    
    It may be true that you take a temporary/contract/whatever job fully
    aware of the terms & conditions.  That doesn't erase the fact that you
    have bills to pay, groceries to buy, etc.  Sometimes you do what you
    have to.
    
    I came to DEC in September 1987, as a temp from an outside agency.  I
    did so because I wanted to work here, and it seemed to be "common
    knowledge" that just about the only way for non-engineers to get in was
    to temp here first, show your stuff, and hopefully impress the right
    people.  Well, October '87 slowed my career down a bit, but I did
    manage to "get in" in July '89.  In the intervening two years I worked
    for two "Kelly Services" type agencies--whose names I won't mention to
    be safe/legal/whatever (NOT Kelly)--and as a DECtemp.  The agencies
    offered minimal benefits, usually after 6 months or a year's service. 
    DECtemps gives absolutely no benefits at all (except for stock, which
    is not very comforting).  Do not blame this on the Temporary Human
    Resource Organization--they are a great bunch and they do their
    best (that's where I worked for a year).  The policy on this comes from
    the VP level.
    
    What this means is that the temp can look forward to short paychecks in
    holiday weeks, particularly this December.  Holidays become a mixed
    blessing at best.  And if you're sick?  Oh well, "that's the way it
    goes," right?  I went two years without health insurance; I was darn
    lucky nothing happened to me.  If you want to take a vacation, of
    course you don't get paid for it.  But you do get time off.  Once a
    year DECtemps must be terminated, so that everything is legal.  You may
    not work at Digital in any way until a month after that termination.
    
    All of this is legal, straightforward, whatever.  You sign an agreement
    as a DECtemp stating that you understand that this is the way it's
    going to be.  There is no coercion, deception, etc.  (I want to
    make it clear that I'm not accusing DEC of anything legally wrong). 
    But it just amazes me that a corporation such as Digital,
    which is known for it's fairness beyond the minimum legal standards
    with its employees, operates what is effectively its secretarial pool 
    in this manner.  And so in answer to the question of "how does Digital
    treat its temporary employees," I would answer "not very well."
    
    Although it's not clear from the base note and its replies so far, it
    is very possible that DEC will move to get rid of many DECtemps soon,
    considering other events.  I hope not.  My wife still is one.  If DEC
    does, the DECtemps will not get a "financial bridge," or anything else.
    
    One last thing.  Please don't call them "TAGS."  There is no such thing
    as a "TAG" at Digital.  That term originated from an acronym of
    "temporary assistance girl," (later "group"), and is outdated, sexist,
    and demeaning.  It reflects the persistant outlook on temps that they
    are idle housewives with nothing better to do, who are happy as
    anything to work with no benefits and no security.  DECtemps and agency
    temps are regular working people trying to gain experience, keep
    working, prove themselves in a company, etc.  They are not content to
    collect unemployment (read: your taxes) while waiting for a resume 
    blitz to pay off.  That is deserving of a little respect.
    
    I'm reaching for <ctrl><Z> with great trepidation, fearing that this
    may only make things worse for the temps here, or the folks back at my
    old job in Temporary Human Resources.  That would be sad.  Because I
    think it's important for regular employees to know, and for many who
    once contracted here to remember, how precarious it is to be a
    temporary.  You need that job just as badly as the person sitting
    next to you, who at least knows he'll get a severance package if he's
    let go.  To say "that's the way it goes" is just too cold for me.
    
    (<gulp> here I go again)
    
    Brian W.

    Does anybody know the real reason why the temps/contractors were only
    given a few hours notice? I would have thought that if they were in the
    middle of something then it would cause the organization grief to try
    and work out where these temps/contractors had got to. A week's notice
    would given them time to clean things up and hand off to a full time
    employee. Ie wouldn't it cost the company more giving such short notice
    as against giving a week's notice.
    
    As for all those bleeding hearts who say it is unfair on the
    temps/contractors I tell you to go find out what their hourly
    contracting rates are. They get these high rates precisely because they
    have to put up with near instant contract terminations. If they wanted
    security they wouldn't be contracting/temping.
    
    Dave

   My ex-secretary was a Temp, about 3-4 months ago, all of the Temps in ZKO
   were given a couple of days notice. (This was a couple of 100 people, I was
   told.) She started temping again a week later in MKO, and was working in
   TTB last week. In the mean time, 20-30 people, including a number of
   product managers were left without Secretarial support while we got a
   replacement on board. 
   
   Temp purges like this do nothing for the costs. Because of the extra work,
   we will soon see the "agencies" putting up their prices, fer sure. They
   disrupt organizations, cutting our profitability, which is what it is all
   about, not headcount...
   
   q
   

    Could someone please explain the difference between a DEC temp and an
    agency temp?  In my experience, all temps are hired through, and work
    for, outside agencies, under the umbrella of the agency contract.  I
    also believe that the agency contract is "at will", or terminable at
    any time with little or no notice.
    
    If these are the rules, and you know the rules when you go a-temping,
    why all the hue and cry when provisions of the contract are invoked? 
    If the contracts are unfair, the temps have a beef with the agencies,
    not DEC, IMHO.

    Just to add a few more facts to the picture, I too got my foot in the door 
    at DEC via the (outside) temp route in a Lead Operator position at
    $8.00/hour - altho' that's more than MacDonald's pays, it's not the "big 
    bucks" we tend to assume all Temps/Contractors/Consultants are making in 
    exchange for taking the risks.  I believe, correct me if I'm wrong,
    that this is the range of pay that most of our DECtemps, who are
    primarily in secretarial, operations, or other entry-level jobs, receive?
    
    As that was my total household income, it was indeed a precarious route 
    that fortunately paid off by giving me enough in-house experience to land 
    a (much more lucrative) consultant position that turned permanent in May 
    of '87.  Altho' I took a substantial drop in pay to come on board, in 
    October, I was *very* happy to be employed by a company that "didn't do 
    layoffs" and has an excellent benefits package.
    
    BTW, when I gave DEC a weeks' notice (none was required by my agency)
    that I was leaving my *temp* job as a Lead Operator to take a
    consultant position, I got heat from my supervisor for not giving a month!
    
    I've rambled a bit, but my point is that Temps are people too, and
    especially considering today's economic climate, are certainly
    deserving of our compassion and consideration.  I hope our DECtemps who
    keep coming back for assignment after assignment in hopes of "getting in
    the door" are not summarily dismissed as were the Temps referenced in
    the base note.
    
    dlw

    RE: .8
    
>    What this means is that the temp can look forward to short paychecks in
>    holiday weeks, particularly this December.  
    
    In another company, where I worked as a contractor, several contractors
    from another agency were going to be denied holiday pay for Christmas
    and New Years because they would not be working the full day before and
    the full day after each holiday.  They couldn't because the plant was
    going to be shut down for the week.  The agency was just trying to make
    an extra buck off their "temps".  Our boss contacted the agency and
    said that if they weren't paid for the holidays (as were all the other
    contractors from other agencies) they would all be let go and rehired
    through another agency.  They got the pay.
    

    
    You're all forgetting something here, it's called Digital Equipment
    Corporation.
    
    Ken Olson, Jack Smith and their staffs all must do what they think is
    right to save DEC from further havoc.
    
    They must take the proper steps at exactly the right time. They must
    call the shot as they see it at this time in DEC history. 5 years from
    now if their asked: Would you have done (whatever their going to do)
    again? They would probably answer"YES" Because, weather it was, or
    was'nt the right thing to do, it was the right thing to do at the
    present time, and the main objective was (IS) to save Digital and
    nothing, no nothing is more important than the survival of the
    Corporation.  That's how I would and feel they are thinking at this
    time. I don't envy their jobs when it comes to cutting people. As any
    manager can state..When it's a people issue it's very difficult to deal
    with. Especialy when you really have feeling for your people.
    
    BTW: All bet's are off! meaning..Anything can happen today..ANYTHING!
    
         No one asked, Just my opinion.
    
    Rick

    As a contractor at DEC I don't ask anyone to feel sorry for me if
    my supervisor tells me I have to go. That's the nature of the business.
    If you don't stand the heat just get out of the kitchen.
    
    If I happen to leave a contract before it's end I like to make the
    things easy to the company (you should read the supervisor), because
    this way I know I can have a good reference (and references are
    everything in 99% of the contracts) even though legaly I could just
    walk out.
    
    A company is in their right to cancel a contract with a few hours
    notice. The contractor is in his/her right not to work for that company
    again or to build into his/her rate the added risk or just to accept it
    as the nature of the business.
    
    On the other hand a person that does contracting without having the
    equivalent of 6 month worth of bills in the bank, or is crazy or has been
    too lucky. Every contractor should expect to be out of work an average
    of 3 month a year (call it vacation if you wish).
    
    But don't forget we also get unemployment benefits. 
    
    So please don't be sorry for the contractors in general. I'm a
    contractor because I want to. I know the risks. I enjoy the benefits
    of having an above average salary. Be sorry for those that spend it
    all. But that's being human and I'm sure a lot of Decies fall into the
    same category.
    
    DEC management is doing their best to make DEC a profitable company
    again. Times are tough, but I see the light at the end of the tunel
    (where did I heard this one?). At the end we all win!
    
    RPG
                                                                      

    Re .11, etc:
    
    Just to clarify--
    
    A DECtemp is a Digital Employee, through and through.  DECtemps carry a
    Digital badge, they get a blue paystub from Payroll every week, they
    are on the Employee Master File.  But they do not get ANY benefits
    besides stock.  And if you want to hire them, the company calls them
    "external."  Like an agency temp, they may be let go without notice or
    compensation.
    
    BTW, there seems to be a blurring of terms here.  "Contractor" sounds
    like it's being variously used for what is often called a
    "consultant"--usually brought in on a P.O., often highly paid; and for
    an "agency temp" (my term) or "contract temp," someone who comes in on
    a Personnel req from a "Kelly" type agency, at regular market rates for
    their job, which is usually support/secretarial.  Not something you can
    bank a three month financial cushion doing.
    
    Brian W.

    re: .15 We should treat others as we would wish to be treated. Courtesy
    toward all employees, including temporary employees, is no bad thing.
    
    You shouldn't throw out the Digital way, even in these times, "Anything
    may happen" is unacceptable.
    
    
    /andy/

    The person referenced in the base note is (was) a "DEC temp".  True,
    they get no benefits if you define benefits as meaning health, life,
    etc, but they *do* get the Christmas turkey, Canobie tickets, etc.  And
    no, they do *not* get paid if they are sick, take vacation, and do not
    get paid for national holidays.  And not meaning to start a rathole,
    but I understand that while DEC temps are eligible for unemployment
    checks during their mandatory 6 weeks off/year, it takes almost 6 weeks
    for those benefits to start rolling in after you've applied, so what's
    the point, if you're going to be coming back?  (Of course, "coming
    back" is not a given, but it was a verbal commitment -- what are those
    worth these days?)
    
    I agree that in these economic times for Digital, the top brass need to
    make decisions that aren't always going to be popular.  But I think
    Andy said it best in .17; ie, we (Digital) should treat others as we
    would wish to be treated, extending courtesy to ALL employees,
    regardless of whether they are real employees or temps.
    
    If a temp has a contract/req that has been signed by the appropriate
    level of management and that temp starts working that position, what do
    you suppose management's reaction would be if the temp decided, on a
    few hours notice, that this was his/her last day?  You BET they'd be
    steamed.  Yea, the temp employee has the "legal right" to do just that,
    and I think all would agree that that temp was "bad" for giving less
    than adequate notice, might even be black-balled from further temp
    positions at Digital.  But put the shoe on the other foot, and now it's
    supposed to be ok because of current economic conditions??  I think a
    week or two of notice would hardly be asking too much.  As it was, most
    of these temps barely had time (or had no time) to train remaining
    people on how to do their jobs!  As Peter said, I think the work
    disruption far outweighs any minor financial advantage that Digital may
    have gained by getting rid of these people.
    
    imho,
    Jon

   re .14
   
   I think you are forgetting, that in most cases, the "silly" things that end
   up happening as a result of "executive directives" in this organization,
   are more often then not, mid-level managements' mis-interpretation of said
   directives.
   
   q
   

I received mail from a contractor at AT&T/Middletown NJ yesterday.  At 4:40 he
(and other contractors) were told that Friday would be his last day of work.
				/AHM

    My department lost two temps last week, both with a few days notice.
    As a group we did lunch, cards, etc.
    
    I've worked as a temp myself, both at Digital and at other companies. 
    It's been my experience that Digital, or at least the department I've
    worked in, treats its temps well- by which I mean, they are included in
    all the functioning of the department, attending meetings and
    social-type functions, remembered on birthdays and special occasions,
    etc.
    
    Unfortunately, it's a fact of temp life that temps are not really
    "owed" anything by the companies at which they are placed.  I've
    personally gotten 20 minutes notice, and no notice (i.e. a phone call
    at home at 6:00 PM saying don't come in tomorrow), even though I've
    always gotten excellent performance reports.
    
    Lynn

    An acquaintance of mine who was recently a temp became frustrated in
    her efforts to get hired full time, especially considering the current
    DEConomic climate...
    
    She went to a software house nearby with all her proposal development
    talents and was hired on the spot.  She now has a full time position,
    matched 401K, health benefits, covered parking, an office with a door,
    and makes a coup-thou more than she made as a temp with no benefits.
    
    And where is she applying all of here talents?  Helping them write
    software consulting systems that are delivered on AS400's.
    
    Gil
    

    Re: 15
    		Try paying rent, electric, or insurance on employment 
    		compensation.
    
    Re: 17	Thank you. Let me reiterate:
    	
    		CONSULTANTS who independently negotiate for fees/service
    			    make big $$$.
    		TEMPS/CONTRACT employees work for a company which
    			    negotiates for big $$$ (for themselves),
    			    leaving the workers making about 5-10%
    			    more than a permanent position pays for
    			    the same job.
    
    		dk