Conference 7.286::digital

If your management won't pay attention to the doctor's _written_
back-to-work letter, you should go back on disability until you
can work full time.

I am amazed that your local Health Services department isn't
being more supportive of your situation.

/john

    If you are in ZKO, Health Services and Personnel would be absolutely
    supportive and scrupulously fair to both your management and yourself. 
    If you cannot get support from either of these departments at your
    facility, you should contact John Murphy @CFO.  I am a manager and have
    been involved in a number of STD cases and know what I have stated
    about ZKO to be true.
    
    RE: .-1
    
    STD can be used to delay the salary planning cycle and increase the two
    year job commitment.  I would not give the advice to go back on
    disability.  Besides, only the doctor can make that decision.  I also
    have seen cases where employees NEED to return to work part time and
    work up to a full work week.

	From personal experience I can say that I had to use the
	STD for one month and had no problems.  I took a tube home
	with me and would catch up on mail and so on.  People were
	very supportive ("You were gone?") and I had no problems...

	I have seen other people who had more length problems like
	you describe.  I know at least three people who had extended
	medical problems and returned to work one a part time basis
	and finally full time.  I would push the issue on the chain
	of command - it sounds like your management for whatever reason
	doesn't like the idea of a 'recuperating' employee...

	

    
    Go to local personnel and if no support, send a memo to John Sims
    telling your story and ask what he thinks you should do.
    

	I was out for seven weeks last year due to pneumonia. Everyone in
	my group including my managers were very supportive and understood,
	actually insisted, that I needed to take it slow for a while when I
	returned.

	Health Services (PKO) told me that if I wasn't feeling well to leave
	early or stay home to recuperate. They also told me that if my manager
	refused to grant this time off, to call them.
	
	Everyone understood that returning to work too soon could possibly
	put me back on disability and delay my full recovery.

Larry

Right now there's a woman in my office on part-time who's arguing the other way.
She feels "ready to return" but personnel is encouraging her to take it slow
since her doctor hasn't yet authorized full time for her.  I don't think your
situation is typical of Digital, although I realize that doesn't make it any 
easier for you right now.

I cannot offer any words of personal experience about this, but just wanted you
to know that there are many people out here who listen and care.

No matter how this works out, remember you're not alone. 

	/Marvin

As a former manager of 8 years, I can tell you that what you are experiencing 
is far from the norm in Digital. I, too, am surprised that your Health 
Services organization isn't being more supportive. Don't back down; take the 
issue to whatever management level you need to. No matter how bad the business 
and economic environment gets, there is no excuse for this type of 
insensitivity.

    I have  been on STD and LTD and never experienced the type
    of situation described in the base note.  Indeed, at a time when
    I and my doctors wanted me to come back, Digital actually
    wanted me to wait a little longer and have some added testing.
    
    The type of behavior described in base note would have been  terribly
    destructive to me and I'm very happy that the folks I worked with
    did not      treat me the way the base note reads.

    Insensitivity from management doesn't surprise me in the least, as I
    experienced it--and worse--from management in an earlier position. I am
    surprised, though, of the behavior of your health services organization.
    I can't say enough nice things about the health services organization in
    MRO, which helped me through my difficulties. I also received an
    increble amount of support from Employee Relations in MRO, from which I
    I solicited help because my personnel consultant at the time of my
    situation was ineffective (to say the least).
    
    My suggestion is to go back to your Health Services organization and
    ask for assistance from the E.A.P. person. Also, if you're not
    satisfied with your personnel consultant, find the nearest Employee
    Relations office. I'd be shocked if these sources can't help you.
    
    Good luck. I've been there and survived to tell this tale.
    
    Nancy-  

    re: .0
    
    I would suggest that you read the ORANGEBOOK policy 6.17, Return to
    Work of Disabled Employees.  It lists all your rights/responsibilities
    as well as Digital's rights/responsibilities.  It's only three pages
    long, and I think it addresses all your concerns, and should help you
    out considerably.  I don't know the specifics of your situation, but it
    appears to me that your doctor's note may be too vague, in which case
    you've essentially placed _yourself_ at the mercy of folks who are not
    qualified to make medical decisions/judgement calls.  I'm sympathetic
    to your situation, but you may have contributed to it yourself by not
    knowing your/your doctor's responsibilites under the policy.
    
    Good luck!

    I had to go out for 2.5 months on STD because of illness in 1986, came
    back to work, got sick again with a relapse and had to go out on
    SDT for another few weeks, and then came back for good. 
    
    Health Services was incredibly helpful, and tried to discouage me
    from coming back too soon, and kept after me not to over-do it. My
    management likewise, very supportive.  If anything, it bothered
    me to have to be self-conscious about all these people telling me
    to take it easy and don't push myself.
    
    I'd recommend escalating a situtation like the one described here; not
    escalating to make trouble for it's own sake or to try to beat the
    system (there's never any winners in that game), but in order to bring
    the problem to someone that is more representative of what Digital's
    practices actually are here.

    Sounds to me like your medical condition is a controversial one.
    People who have had easy to diagnose and/or well-known illnesses 
    are probably those who have had no problems.  
    
    I think it is insensitive for people to keep telling the author
    that THEY were treated better.  Clearly the author also expected
    better treatment.  Those with ideas for future steps are the most
    help!! 

    I went through a similar situation in 1984.  It does NOT surprise me to
    hear of an employee getting hassled about trying to follow doctor's
    orders, yet trying to hold onto a job.
    
    In 1984 I was ordered out of work on bedrest due to complications of
    pregnancy.  My Health Services (MKO) refused to honor it.  The person
    in charge stated, almost verbatum, "...you're only pregnant, dear,
    that's not a reason not to work".  Because she felt I was able to work,
    DESPITE my obstetrician's written order to cease work and go on
    bedrest, I was refused STD.  The Health Services org told me I was free
    to take an unpaid leave of absence if I wished but could not go out on
    STD.
    
    I went to personnel, EEO office, Labor RElations office.  Italked to
    the person in charge of Health SErvices, reiterating this was written
    doctor's orders.  Luckily, my direct boss was supportive of my doctor's
    orders, yet Health Services was not.  My boss allowed me a lot of slack
    at work until it was worked out, which took about two months.
    
    Eventually, Health Services agreed to get a second opinion from another
    doctor and abide by that.  The second opinion concurred with the first
    doctor, and I was granted STD.  But I can tell you, Health Services
    opinions aften depend on who is in charge at your particular site. 
    This whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth about "doing what's
    right" at DEC.  Further, if I had continued working against doctor's
    orders, and had lost my child from that pregnancy, who would have been
    liable?  It stuns me at times the ways in which we seem to be penny
    wise and pound foolish.
    

    RE.0 
    
    First thing to do is go back to your Doctor and have your Doctor 
    clarify his perscription to your Health Services Person. Most Doctors
    would slam-dunk any HS person who tried to countermand his orders.
    
    Second, as the last reply stated, I find it hard to believe that 
    an employee of Digital (the Health Services person) would place the
    corporation in a position of liability by countermanding a Doctors 
    perscription. I doubt if that person has the corporations best
    interests in mind. 
    
    In any case, .0 asked if she is crazy, NO WAY!.
    
    Take care of yourself, seems like others aren't...
    
    George

    and if HS and your supervisor persist, see a lawyer.
    
    I was out on disability last year for 3 weeks.  I was totally 
    disabled for 8 months and had two  operations.  I got all kinds
    of run-arounds from my supervisor and dec insurance.  I said the
    magic word "lawsuit" and did not have a bit of trouble after that.
    
    I know, why was I here when I could have been out for six months?
    Oh, I don't know.  There is a thin line between dedication and
    stupidity.  Having no payraise in over 18 months, I now feel
    a little on the stupid side (which is my right side).
    
     

Thanks for your thoughtful reponses. I wanted to update what
has happened. 

I spent a few days trying to get my mental /emotional 
state under control before I even attempted to speak with
anyone.  I called my doctor, and went in to discuss the
events of last week. Needless to say, he was not pleased 
about this situation. He has written up a more reasonable 
schedule for me, which specifically states hours and days I 
can work, till I see him again.  I am planning to present
to Health Services. I am somewhat concerned my management
will view this as a "well I'll show them!" kind of behavior". 

I hope I can convince them in a positive manner that this
schedule will be in my best interest, as well as Digital's.


Having previously worked in Personnel as an administrator,
I am aware of all of the policies (ie, 6.17) in the Personnel
Orange Manual. What astounds me is that it's very clear
on how a return to work should be handled. If there is 
any concern regarding the actual STD, or time involved with
recovery, the Health Services Dept. is to consult with
the Company Doctor, or the outside consultant they choose. 
Many disabilities can fail to meet guidlines established
by DEC. But that is why they pay good money to a consultant!

I was very concerned about the expectant mother in .13! 
They CANNOT refuse to honor a doctor's order. They 
should immediately pass this on for consultation. The
legal implications, if this person lost their baby, are
enormous. I consider these incidents very serious, and
wonder at the competence of our Medical Departments
here at Digital. Sounds like we have a few Nurse Ratched's
on the loose. If I am intimidated again like this, I 
will bring up the subject of legal liability. As it is,
the stress of being told "your health is not my problem"
feeds back into .....you got it, more bad health and 
stress! 

BTW, my attempts in meeting with Personnel have failed - 
They seem to be ignoring my requests for a meeting .... so
much for the open door policy. Can't even get the person
behind the door to open up. 

I feel confident I have taken the right steps. I may meet 
with EAP to apprise them of this situation, since my Rep 
evidently thinks I am not important enough 

If any policy makers out there happen to read this, might I 
suggest the following:

1. Your nurses shouldn't be putting Digital into a sticky 
   legal situation by playing doctor.  Clearly, many
   do not know enough to call upon their resources. Perhaps
   some intensive administrative training is needed 
   on how to recognize when a problem needs to 
   be elevated. 

2. That you train managers in sensitivity towards those
   with disabilities. Disabled people should not be perceived as a
   "headcount problem". 


3. Employees are a valuable resource. The needs of the company  
   are important, but without a healthy employee, you 
   have nothing.  

4. Show some compassion when an employee returns to work. It
   takes time to build back physical strength. It also 
   is important to recognize that simple things like MAIL
   feel funny to use..... it takes some time to get
   your confidence back.

5. Put yourself, your spouse, or your children in the employee's
   place. Would you like to see them come home in tears or
   start to get sick again?  Show some flexibility and let
   them get a feel for work again. Don't demand a rigid 
   schedule as if it were Marine Corps boot camp. 
   

I'm kind of confused by all this. I just returned from STD but I didn't really
have to deal with Health Services at all. Before I left my supervisor
had to fill out some paperwork and send it to the Disabilities people (I think
they're in Marlboro or some such). They handled all the details with the 
doctor. He filled out his paperwork telling them when I could return. I don't
know if Health Services (I'm in MKO) was even notified. When I returned I
had to bring a note from the doctor but I took it as just a formality. The
disability rep. called me to make sure I was back and make sure I brought
a note, but beyond that Health Services didn't really have anything to do
with the whole thing. 

Jenna

I authored note 1185 in this notes file, and need some additional 
feedback. 

That note explained an particularly nasty situation with
my supervisor and how he handled my return to work from 
short term disability. 

This turned more nightmarish than you can imagine. I had 
my doctors orders rewritten (since my supervisor 
saw fit to interpret them HIMSELF) and was promptly sent 
registered mail stating I had to see the company doctor, 
who fortunately, supported my doctors orders 100%. Upon 
telling my supervisor the new schedule was approved, 
he stated he WOULD NOT believe my new schedule till he 
talked with personnel. 

He also attempted to put me into a corrective action 
situation, by writing a job plan senior members 
could not hope to achieve, and insisted on continual 
one on one's. (I was the only group member to have 
such plans). 

I went to both EEO and EAP to help me with this, and 
has their support. They recommended I have no one on one
contact with him, which I was able to maintain for 
about 2 1/2 months while I finished my rehabilitation. 
During this time, I was able to find a position (how 
lucky I am, I know) with a wonderful group, that has 
made all the difference in regards to my health, and
my self-confidence. I love it! 

Last week, I happened to be talking with one of the 
people who hired me, and it was mentioned that my 
supervisor actually told this person HE WAS TRYING
TO TERMINATE ME FROM THE COMPANY. As well, the Personnel
Rep (who only met me once, upon MY initiation of a 
meeting) had a few comments as well. 

Now, I know this person had it in for me, (what the
reasons are, beyond having a disease and having 
to go out on STD, I don't know) but I think this 
is blantant libel on his part. I don't think someone can say
they are trying to fire a person, if no disciplinary
action has been started. 

Under no circumstances was I under any type of verbal
or written warning. There was absolutely no discussion
regarding whether I was good, bad, or in-between. NOTHING! 

I must also mention that EAP did talk with him, 
and he stated for their records he found my work
to be good. 
 
I am very disturbed at these comments. I am thinking of
discussing it with EAP for their records, so they will
have his contradictions on file. I also am thinking of
reporting this to EEO - they are aware of his actions
in regards to having a formal job plan for me and no one
else. (BTW, my new group feels his comments were 
inappropriate, and hired me anyway). 

Do you think this would be appropriate action? I really
want to ensure this person does not make any further 
damaging remarks. I have so much to look forward to 
in my new job, but I some sense of closure on this. 

Any suggestions? 

    His actions are reprehensible and he should be nailed for them.
    Of course that is if this can be backed up.
    
    We don't need managers like this guy.
    
    Jim C.
    

    I have been reading this note and all it's replies for several months
    now.  I don't believe we are getting the full picture.  There are
    always two sides to every story.  This one sounds very one-sided to me.
    
    As readers of this notesfile we don't have the opportunity to hear the
    other side of this story; therefore we should not respond with our
    emotions and pre-judge someone.
    
    Notesfiles like this continue to fester a bad experience instead of
    letting it be resolved and forgotten.
    

    re .20
    
    There is no doubt that we hear only one side of many stories in this
    notes file.  The primary reason is that the management side of these
    controversies either can not be told or will not be told in a public
    forum.  The can not be told stems from privacy and disciplinary rules
    which gag management even when the worker is allowed to scream.  The
    will not be told stems from the inability and/or unwillingness to admit
    behavior which on the surface appears to violate policy, attempts to
    rationalize behavior which appears wrong generally degenerates quickly.
    
    What I see in these memos is a request for information on how to pro-
    ceed from individuals caught in very uncomfortable positions.  They
    can not go to the normal source of support because it is the source
    of the problem (be this immediate management or local personnel).
    
    These people are seeking shared experiences and what worked to resolve
    the problem.  Unfortunately, they have to wade thru people condeming
    them or their management and not offering suggestions on how/when/why/
    where to proceed to correct the problems they are experiencing.
    
    Now let me give advice.
    
    First, since you have moved on to a new position and the old manager
    will not/should not have any influence on your new position, it might
    be best to begin to forget the experience you went thru and focus on
    the new position.
    
    Second,  if the manager told someone they were trying to get you termi-
    nated from the company and that person is willing to bring this to per-
    sonnel's attention, I would suggest that they do so not that you do so.
    The manager in this case certainly appears to have been trying to ini-
    tiate the termination of the employee.  If the manager had been success-
    ful in initiating the termination, there would be evidence in the file
    and it would have to be made available to the employee and their new
    manager.  If there is nothing in the file, the employee can check their
    own file, then the manager obviously did not succeed in starting the
    disciplenary process.  Why any manager would tell anyone that he/she was
    trying to terminate someone, knowing there was nothing in the file to
    substantiate his/her efforts and reasons, is beyond me.  If the manager
    behaved thusly, he/she is generating a high risk for Digital to be sued
    for discrimination and personnel should discourage his/her further com-
    ments before the employee is forced to take legal action.
    
    Third,  I would check my personnel file to see everything in the file.
    If necessary, I would write a letter documenting everything that has
    happened from my own perspective and would make sure that it was put
    in the file also.  I would not put anything in the file, if I found
    no mention of disciplenary action and/or other controversy since doing
    so will only prompt others to probe an area which will cause you pain.
    
    Fourth, I would continue to work with my doctor and others to regain
    my health and a positive attitude about working for Digital.  Good
    Luck on your recovery, we need all the healthy, hard working people
    contributing the best that they can to the company.
    
    

Yes, it certainly is difficult to assess a situation when 
you know only one side. However, the opportunity is there
for readers to correspond off-line with the writer (me)if they
wish. I fact, I have heard from more people than you could
possibly imagine, which scares me. 

Many of the things I wrote about are fact. The emotions
remain the part of the picture you can't see. 

For example, in my initial note, I did indeed have a 
manager, Health Services and a member of Personnel indicate
I should come back in 2 weeks, completely against my
doctor's order. That issue, alone, is one I consider 
a serious violation of our company policies. Again, 
when a manager says "your health is not my problem" 
isn't that rather callous? I have contradictory 
statements of "my work is good" to "I'm trying to 
terminate this employee" on record. It was said to
others. I have no reason to make these kind of things 
up. Who would? You'd have to be off the wall to concoct 
a scenario like this!

As for letting things fester, when statements are made 
that jeopardize your job, health, and relationships with
family and so-called friends, they need to be worked
and addressed. Not addressing the emotional impact, at
least in my case, will only cause my emotions to fester
but my disease to "fester". I believe once those issues
are worked through, then the person can go on. A bad
experience cannot simply be dismissed, especially 
if the experience made you so fearful, you could not
function normally on a day to day basis. 

An analogy would be if a close friend waited forever to 
let another friend know something said was bothering 
them. After weeks, and maybe months, the relationship 
would probably sour and may even become unsalvageable. 
And the problem there is twofold - ASSUMPTION and 
COMMUNICATION. Without either, you certainly can't
ever hope to know both stories. If no one speaks up, 
or even WANTS to speak up, then there is nothing
there worth saving, is there? 

That's what my work experience was like. I hope that 
makes things easier to understand. The writer of .20
may respond to me offline, should they wish to 
discuss the other side. My impression is their mind
was made up months ago, if I am not mistaken. You could
have said something constructive then, but do it now? 
Why bother going back to my note if it never rang true?
I can read between the lines very easily. I know where your
message of truth and 2 sides comes from. 

To others who really cared to offer meaningful 
and thoughtful suggestions, as well as support, 
thank you so much.

I am fully confident that the work I have done
the past few months (using open door, and going
up the chain, such as it is) is complete, and 
I have nothing to fear any longer. I still 
continue to use therapy to help me to realize
that I am not a bad person for having a disease. 
And that having a disease and being on STD is 
not punishable by termination. 

    It has been brought to my attention that my use of the word "public"
    in .21 could be misinterpreted as meaning that this conference is
    in the public domain.  This is a private notes conference, but it
    is not sufficiently restricted to maintain the confidentially which 
    is required when management speaks on personnel matters.  Management
    can be held accountable for revealing details of a personnel matter
    to anyone beyond those with an absolute need to know.  They are making
    a personnel matter "public" if they allow information to be seen by
    individuals who do not have a need to know the facts, even if the
    facts have been already revealed by the employee.
    
    It is a fine line deciding when and how one can respond.  The response
    must be a statement of what is the policy and how it should be followed
    without regard to specific incidents in which the policy was or was not
    followed.  Whether management responds in a private notes file, or
    shouts its response from the balcony, they have made the details "public"
    and can be held liable for doing so.
    
    I appreciate the reminder that precision is required when using words
    that can be misinterpreted.  Hopefully, with my clarification those
    who chose to misrepresent my sentiments, will now be denied the oppor-
    tunity to use my words to do so.