Conference 7.286::digital

    RE: .0
    
    Sounds like a typical field office to me.

    You are describing the typical field office.
    
    This is the bottom line:
    
    If sales reps and sales support people do not USE, daily, the equipment
    they are selling, then they are ipso facto operating from a massive
    disadvantage compared with the competition.
    
    I used to sell, in 1978, graphics workstations for Tektronix, in the
    UK. Remember the 4051? 1024x780 resolution, keyboard, tape or disk
    drive and microcomputer running BASIC. Not bad, for 1978! Way in
    advance of the Apple machines or PC's.
    
    I had two units, one for my car, one in the office. I used them for
    almost everything, to make graphs, presentations, demos, accounting,
    sales projections, you name it.
    
    I sold a lot of them!! In 1978 I was selling at a rate of over $1M per
    year, at an average of about $10K per unit (and lots of peripherals),
    against HP and other general purpose computer companies, including DEC.
    That's about $3-4M a year at today's rate.
    
    BUT I COULDN'T HAVE DONE IT WITHOUT THE DEMO UNITS!! HP still have
    them. So do SUN Microsystems reps and support people. So do all the
    others. But our field people (so sorry for generalization) are
    relatively uneducated. Even worse, they are forced to sell such a large
    range of products, they cannot hope to be expert in all of them. Even
    the SPECIALISTS don't have enough equipment to use or loan or demo to
    really be proficient.
    
    Tally-ho,
    
    Ray

    I wonder if this will begin to change as the Sales units have more
    responsibility for their own destiny.
    
    Rep:  "I need you to give a demo/talk on the mumble-frantz for
    big-bucks, Inc."
    
    Specialist:  "I've never seen or used the mumble-frantz."
    
    or
    
    Rep:  "Customer mega-bucks has a question on using glop-manager on a
    mumble-frantz.  See what happens when you do it on the one in the
    office."
    
    Specialist:  "I can't.  You gave the mumble-frantz away last week."
    
    Maybe a few of those exchanges, coupled with the knowledge that the
    sales unit now has responsibility for the sales support specialists,
    will help shake loose some equipment for the field.
    
    Bob

    Digital Management (a theoretical term) does not feel it necessary for
    them to provide us with the tools necessary for us to do our jobs. 
    This is not just a "field" problem, it exists anywhere a digital
    manager (a theoretical term) "exists".
    
    Someday they will learn one of the basics of business, that you have to 
    spend money to make money.
    
    They (a theoretical term) are only concerned with their "numbers".
    Eventually, the "number" they will be concerned with is the number
    of people in front of them in the unemployment line when they manage
    this company out of business.(but they will make their "numbers").

    I can't speak for all field offices, but things appear to be getting
    better here in Santa Clara.  Every Sales Support Specialist in our
    office has a workstation of some variety on their desk (these are
    replaced yearly with new state-of-the-art equipment by Sales).
    
    I'm a delivery consultant, and we've managed to acquire enough
    workstations for PSS to average about 1 workstation per 1.7 employees,
    which isn't bad at all considering we had only 1 or 2 workstations for
    the *entire* District not 3 years ago.  However, we have some excellent
    managers who recognize the importance of getting this equipment into
    our hands.
    
    Susan

    re: .7  Any open jobs out there?  Just kidding ...:-)
    
    re:  Sales Management over SW Management
    
    Unfortunately, I think the "tools" situation will get worse, not
    better, under the new regime.  It's not really anyone's fault, it's
    just the circumstances.
    
    Sales reps run under severe short-term goals and do not have the time
    or energy to worry about whether or not the resources are adequate to
    do the job.  Some sales reps really try hard to do good by their SWS
    counterparts:  I have been fortunate to work with more than one sales
    rep who worked long and hard to get us needed equipment and tools.
    But the real problem is just lack of understanding and experience on
    the part of Sales Management.  It's not easy for them to understand
    what constitutes an adequate support environment.  They are also under
    increased pressure to hold down costs in the Field under the new ROR
    (Return on Responsibility) metrics.
    
    The overall situation has improved over the last few years (IMHO) only
    because the cost of hardware has gone down dramatically.  It is now
    possible to assemble a decent system to learn and demo on for only
    a few thousand internall dollars.  When I first joined DEC, such a
    system would have cost many tens of thousands, and required a large
    ongoing expense burden (computer room, etc).  This is more likely the
    real reason for the new trend, not any sudden shift in Field policy.
    
    Geoff
    
    

    Sounds better than the typical "Field" office. He knows what hes
    supposed to be doing !
    
    Mike
    

	In the NY/NJ districts, we have workstations and at least
	access to workstations. We have a cluster with 2 8700s, 6310,
	and a 8350. We also have 2 HSC50s, 4 RA91s, 18 RA81s. Our
	former Area manager and the current SWS managers know how
	important this equipment is. We are also receiving VT1000s 
	(only 1MB of memory though). This is just in the KYO office.
	The other offices have 3400 servers for the workstations and
	miscellaneous VAX systems. It can be done...

	Why not take Jack Smith up on his offer he made at DUIT? Put
	together a plan with costs and ask him how to get it funded.
	He said "Money should not stand between a specialist and the
	equipment he needs to get his job done..."

	I don't always get enough time for training, but I take
	every opportunity I can to use my workstation to learn 
	something new. 

	You can't solve a problem by complaining about it. Take charge.
	Squeeze till it hurts... Hopefully management will get the
	idea the first time around.

	P.S. Make sure at least 1 system has CDROMs. At this point you
	need 1 for docs and 2 to keep both Consolidated Distributions
	on line. Subscribe to the CDROM update services. 

    re .0
    
    Got it one.  Been here just on two years as a PCSA specialist and my PC
    has only just been authorised.  Of course, getting it delivered is
    another matter, since being internal I'm at the bottom of the list.

I would like to say that it is not the same everwhere...  We are very fortunate
here in our local sales office.  Late last year we (Software Services)
put a plan together to put a 
workstation "on everyone's desk" (both Sales Support and PSS).  The plan was
developed, re-developed, re-developed, ... and finally presented to management.
Management took a very careful look at the plan and the approved it.  As a
result of the plan we have put a workstation in the hands of every Sales
Support, PSS, management and secretarial employee within the district.

The program has been received very well by both the employees and the customers.
It is now easier to sell "the Digital Difference" when we try to sell PSS to
a customer.  While our hourly rates have always tended to be higher than other
consulting firms we can now show a tangeable difference of "why Digital".
Having workstations has certainly generated more business for us within the
district.

It should also be pointed out that, independent of the effort and plan that we
put together within Software Services, many Sales Units within the building
put together their own plan and presented it to Sales Management.  It too was
well received and well over 50% of the sales representatives within the building
also have workstations.


The moral of the story...  Don't give up!  It wasn't easy but if you get your
facts together, prepare a detailed and well thought-out plan, you might be
pleasantly surprised.

If anyone would like, feel free to contact me at WHYNOW::NEWMAN if you would
like to discuss this further.

Bob Newman

	re .5:

>>>	 If Ken Olsen were in the field for a day...:0)

	I believe he was. Shortly after, Jack Shields left the company.
	It is just barely possible that things will start to improve,
	baselined on that event.

	/Tom

    re:  .5
    
    Ken Olsen frequently makes trips/visits to the Tucson, AZ
    office. I believe his son attends a special school there.
    He tends to drop in and get regular feedback from sales
    on issues they may have, and what would make their job
    more efficient.
    
    pat

    I keep hearing about Sales Support and SWS people having the equipment.
    But my point was that SALES people need it, too. How can they sell what
    they don't intimately know? Especially workstations. Oh yes, the
    paradigm has been that "you call in the right resource". But sometimes,
    selling comes from really knowing the products you are peddling, and
    knowing how they can be applied to solving problems. A training course
    just does not cut it.
    
    Ray.

Ray,

I have to disagree with you about giving workstations to the
Sales Force for their daily use.  Any sales people out there
do not take the following statement as an insult and applies
as a statemnet of the average.  I do realise that there are 
exceptions to this statement.  The Sales Force does not 
have the time, inclination or the technical ability to utilize a
workstation to acheive any benefit over a VT320.  

What sales does need are Support People who use work-
stations and are knowledgeable about them.  They also need
seed units and resources to support those units on the 
customer sites.

Larry

re .15 - I agree with you as far as Sales is concerned.  If you refer to my note
of a few replies back you will see that a majority of Sales people in our
facility have workstations (and more are getting them).  Managers and
secretaries also have them.  The philosophy here is that it does not matter what
your "job title" is; if you need a specific tool to do perform your job, in
this case a workstation, make a case for it and people will try to go out of
their way to accomodate you.

And yes...  there are a few job openings here...

> And yes...  there are a few job openings here...

	...and where exactly is "here"?  Just curious...

re: .19,

>                       -< Burlington, MASS Sales Office >-

	Oh.  Somehow being within 10 miles of corporate headquarters
    doesn't quite seem to qualify you as working in a "typical" field
    site, although I would like to think that all field sites were so
    well stocked with computer equipment for their employees to use.

	After all, practice makes perfect...

>> I have to disagree with you about giving workstations to the
>> Sales Force for their daily use.  Any sales people out there
>> do not take the following statement as an insult and applies
>> as a statemnet of the average.  I do realise that there are 
>> exceptions to this statement.  The Sales Force does not 
>> have the time, inclination or the technical ability to utilize a
>> workstation to acheive any benefit over a VT320.  

>> What sales does need are Support People who use work-
>> stations and are knowledgeable about them.  They also need
>> seed units and resources to support those units on the 
>> customer sites.

>> Larry


Larry:

Some novel thoughts?  A Digital salesperson who could actually do a DECwindows
demonstration for one of their customers?  A Digital salesperson who could
demonstrate DECwrite because they use it for letters and proposals.  A Digital
salesperson who could demonstrate DECdecision  because they use it to maintain
pertinent customer information.  A Digital sales support person freed from
performing seemingly mudane presentations and demonstrations of decision-support
applications?  A Digital sales support person who has time to learn new (maybe
even existing) applications that are truly beyond the technical sophistication
of a Digital salesperson because they're not doing those mundane demonstrations.


As they say: "A mind is a terrible thing to waste!"  While some might say that
Digital salespeople are mindless, I say: "Give Us Workstations!"  We might even
surprise you.

Think about the possibilities!


Bob Whitecotton
Digital Sales Executive

    re .20:
    
    Since when is there a "mileage requirement" that defines the type of
    office one works in !?
    
    Let's not get into a "office bashing" discussion please.
    
    All I was trying to point out is that I work in a Sales office and both
    Sales and Sales Support people (as well as many other types of jobs in
    the building) have workstations.
    
    As far as being close to "corporate" is concerned, from my
    perspective it does not make any difference.  We do not have people
    from "corporate" coming through the building.  We are not trying to put
    on a "show" for anyone.  We just need these tools to do our job.  I
    believe the fact that we have them is directly related to the type of
    management that "corporate" elected to put in the facility and not the
    location where "corporate" decided to put the facility.
    
    Enough said.  On to more productive discussions...

    Before I comment on the comments, let me add a little background of
    'field facts' (that I have seen, recently being involved in budgeting
    for FY91 as part of a Corporate Account team):
    
    1.	Sales and (plus) Sales Support manpower (generic term) are lumped
    	(added together) into 'headcount'.
    
    2.	Field metrics include a 'yield' number of dollars divided by
    	manpower.  The current term for this is ROR - Return on Resources.
    	(This includes people plus any equipment plus all the other
    	costs of doing business like corporate visits, travel, etc.)
    
    3.	That figure (US, Corporate Accounts) is currently about 1 MILLION
    	dollars per person.
    
    4.	Sales is chartered with selling - closing business - and OWNS
    	the responsibility for this.
    
    Now, some observations:
    
    1.	In the early days, DEC sales reps were engineers.  Our customer
    	base was the engineering/technical market.  Our customers
    	were engineers who strongly influenced what got bought (ie. what
    	they recommended to the 'buyers').  It was engineers selling
    	to engineers.  The seller had to be knowledgable about both the
    	application and the product.
    
    2.	Sales Support was NOT considered a cost of sales (by sales), but
    	was considered technical help and support, used as needed.
    
    3.	The ratio of Sales to Sales Support was close to 1:1 and there
    	was close teaming in many places.
    
    4.	As we moved into the 80's, the concept of a 'professional' Sales
    	force and a 'pool' of Sales Support people emerged.  At the same
    	time, our market expanded into many areas and our product set
    	became complex and varied.  Buying, in many instances, moved to
    	higher levels in the organization.
    
    5.	These factors brought the ratio of Sales Support to Sales down,
    	made the 'team' more difficult and created a need for
    	specialization in Sales Support.  It also became more difficult
    	for the Sales force to remain technicaly competent.
    
    6.	Sales Support became 'billable' to Sales, forcing decisions like
    	"do I 'hire' another Sales rep or a Support person"?  Since I
    	need a million to cover the person, better get a sales rep - who
    	can sell that million worth!
    
    7.	Low cost PC's and workstations brought the buying power back down
    	to the individual level and the 'engineer selling to engineer' came
    	back into play.
    
    8.	We were moving in the other direction and were in a financially
    	driven mode of measurement where capital equipment (like
    	workstations for field people) were expenses to be rationed.
    
    9.	A big ship is hard to turn, but our spinoffs (Sun, Apollo, etc.)
    	had come from those early days and used that model.
    
    Now my opinions on the topics:
    
    1.	Use what we sell!  That conviction is a great reference.  All-in-1
    	was sold to many business managers in the South by a District
    	Manager who brought them into his office and showed how he ran his
    	business using it.  Can a manager whose secretary prints his mail,
    	gives it to him to mark up and then types his anwers do the same?
    	Can I demo DECwrite when I'm still doing presentations with
    	Overhead Express on a VAXmate (or a Rainbow)?
    
    2.	Where better to test and learn how to improve our products but
    	our own use of them in REAL situations.
    
    3.	Make our stuff easy to get, use and configure.
    
    So much for the rambling, bottom line:
    
    	EVERYONE SHOULD USE, UNDERSTAND AND HAVE PRIDE IN OUR PRODUCTS!
    
    -Barry_who_went_to_the_Field_in_1976_and_has_aged_30_years_in_14_
    	but_loves_it-
    

I'm sorry, but in my dealings with three districts in the 
San Francisco Area is that except for a handful of Sales
Reps, most would use them just the same way they use a
VT220 today.  The questions I would get are, "Show me
how to get to ALL-IN-!, AQS, ACCESS, ...?"  In our area,
the Sales Reps are too busy chasing numbers to be 
bothered with learning how to demo DECWrite and other
products, "That is what Sales Support is for?".  They don't
even want to demo ALL-IN-1!!! and they use it every day.
I agree that if they did the demos, they would be more 
impressive then if the specialist performed the demo, but
they are too busy chasing sales so they can continue to
work, go to DECathalon ...  The sad part is that the San 
Francisco District didn't want to pursue Workstatiion Sales
because they didn't return enough for the effort, that is, until
they learned what SUN's budget was for the area.

Larry

    
    The idea of Sales Reps (after the techies, of course) all having
    workstations appeals to me even if they only use them to access
    traditional applications. The reason for this is simply education. Most
    Reps couldn't identify with their customers when they complained about
    something or lobbied for a new feature in ALL-IN-1 until they began to
    use it themselves on a daily basis. Same would be said about
    Workstations. Do you think we still wouldn't be providing print screen in
    DECterm if all our Sales Reps had one? Heck no! They'd scream bloody
    murder and would have the customer info to back it up.
    
    I also believe that as DECwindows matures so will it's use by
    non-technical folks. Just having DECpresent alone with go a long way
    towards that day.
    
    Now, my question is around support for those Sales Workstations. What
    type of enviormnment do they need to support? What if they were
    satellites hanging off of IS supported systems instead of standalone? I
    know there are pros and cons to both but since I'm proposing the former
    within our area I need to find out what the "real" world things. Bob,
    how are those stations in the Burlington MASS office handled? If VMS
    was 3-6 months out of date would it make them unusable or what?
    
    Thanks,
    Ray
    

    re .26
    
    The "Sales Cluster" in Burlington presently consists of a mixture of 23
    VAXstation 2000's and VAXstation 3100's connected to a MicroVAX 3600
    acting as a boot node.  The entire cluster is "managed" by two sales
    support consultants; myself and one other person.  We do the system
    management in our spare time (translated-->  outside of the normal work
    week).  The cluster is kept up to date with the latest versions of
    software, in fact, it is running field test software for many products
    so that we can keep everyone up to date with what the new features of
    the products will contain.
    
    We also "manage" the Sales Support cluster in the building that
    consists of 17 workstations booted off dual MicroVAX 3900 systems. 
    This too is managed in our spare time.
    
    While this might sound like a lot of work it really isn't.  Most of the
    daily system management tasks are automated.  We use software tools to
    monitor the system and notify us if things "go wrong".  For backups I
    am using an RV20 drive and an automated command procedure.  ALl I have
    to do it to keep an eye on when the RV02 platter is full and needs to
    be replaced.
    
    Yes, it does take some extra time but the payback is well worth the
    effort.
    
    I hope this answers your question.  If you have any more don't
    hesistate to call me.  Personally I am opposed to corporate IS running
    machines such as our cluster.  Call me if you want to discuss this
    off-line.

    Can you say, "Reduce Overhead Cost"?  The only way sales or sales
    support people get equipment in the field is to order it for either
    rotation or consignment.  Consignment equipment's primary function is
    to be loaned to customers and sold.  Rotation equipment is for use
    by digital employees; and most often ends up at the customer site
    used by our consultants (doing their PSS work).  
    
    Guess who pays for the equipment that is not sold in a year?  The
    cost center that ordered it, and, ultimately everyone at Digital.
    It is an overhead cost we all should be working to reduce.  Just
    the thought of all those workstations sitting on sales reps and
    software specialists desks not being allowed to be sold - it
    gives me the chills.  If this is the case at "non field" offices,
    some upper level manager should be taking a closer look at getting
    those items sold to help reduce our company's overhead costs.  
    
    Since I am in field sales I am glad there are only a few pieces of
    the latest-and-greatest products here on rotation.  These items should
    be shipped to our customers and not to Digital offices for internal
    use.
    
    -Jill-

        re .26
    
    In my .27 response I said that the "sales" cluster was managed by 2 
sales support consultants; myself and another person.  The other person has 
reminded me that there is in fact a third "system manager".  This person is 
not a sales support consultant BUT A SALES UNIT MANAGER!!!  Don't get me 
wrong, it does not take 3 people to manage a 24-node cluster.  It really 
doesn't take 2 people.  The reason for the Sales Unit Manager being active 
in the management tasks is that it gives him a way to keep abreast of the 
technical nature of the equipment and software that he and his sales unit 
is responsible for selling.  As other people have said, it is far easier 
for a sales rep to talk about a product if they have themselves had 
experience with the product.  Unfortunately there is not 1 sales support 
person for each sales rep.  Quite often the sales reps are on sales calls 
without a sales support consultant where they are required to answer
"technical questions".  By being familiar with our hardware and software 
products AND HOW TO ACTUALLY USE THEM they are able to give accurate 
answers without having to say "I will have someone get back to you on 
that".

	re .28

    As far as obtaining the equipment "on rotation" is concerned it is our 
    process to sell all of this equipment to our customers before the end of 
    the fiscal year.  This way we do not incurr any charge for the use of the 
    equipment.  Quite often, customers purchase the equipment that their 
    Digital PSS people have been using on their site working on their projects. 
    Right now I am glad to say that demand for the equipment that we have to
    sell is ahead of supply.  As part of selling the systems to our
    customers we can offer them near next day delivery.  As we sell off the
    equipment we replace it with "the latest and greatest" models.  For
    example, all of our PVAXes are being replaced with DECstation 5000's.  
    This way we all get hands on experience with our latest product line;
    everyone is able to give demonstrations to customers; and we can put
    people on-site at a customer who have seen the equipment they will be
    working with before they get there.
    
    Let me close by saying that the overall plan that we have implemented
    within our district took many levels of approval before we could make
    it happen.  While the plan for the program was developed within our
    Software Services District we needed the approval of both the Sales and
    Software Services District Managers, the Area-level managers, and then
    the approval of some Software Services managers at the country level. 
    As I said before, the process was not easy.  But we were committed to
    it, believed in it, and saw it through to its approval.

.28>    the thought of all those workstations sitting on sales reps and
.28>    software specialists desks not being allowed to be sold - it
.28>    gives me the chills. 
    
    "The thought of all that corn being buried in the ground instead of
     being fed to hungry people -- it gives me the chills."

    Actually, contrary to what .28 says, rotation/consignment is not the
    only way that the Field can obtain equipment.  I can and have ordered
    plenty through normal channels - all it takes is a capital budget. Some
    of the less enlightened Field organizations are quite stingy with capital
    compared to those who are more forward looking, however. 

    Also, I am familiar with what Mr. Newman is doing in Boston Suburban. I
    can't say that I agree that it costs the company nothing to implement such
    a strategy with consignment, though it is true that it costs *his* cost
    center nothing.  When you sell the equipment, it is both used and on
    the down side of the technology curve.  You will not get nearly as much
    for it as new equipment, thus impacting margins.  Plus, trying to
    manage a few million dollars worth of consignment is *not* an easy
    task!  It will prove to be an interesting experiment, however...
    
    The vast majority of Sales and Support do *not* need the latest and
    greatest - you don't get any different functionality on a DECstation
    5000 than you do on a 2100, and absolutely *none* of the applications
    we run in a typical Field office require the additional performance.  It
    probably makes sense in those cases to capitalize the gear and write it 
    off over several years.
    
    An interesting side issue is that if workstations didn't cost us a
    fraction of what they cost customers, we wouldn't be buying them. With
    the exception of our engineering clients, they are not representative
    of the environments most of our customers have, want or need.  If we 
    wanted to mirror that, we would be buying PC's and servers.  In my mind, 
    it's not a question of using what you sell or selling what you use - we 
    should be using what our customers are buying, at least to some extent.
    
    As far as the base note goes, only the most brain-dead organizations
    *still* don't have equipment.  If they haven't "gotten it" by now,
    there probably isn't any hope. Stay away from them!  From where I sit, 
    the Field is currently one of the most dynamic and well equipped 
    organizations around.
    
    Al
    

    re .31
    
    'workstations are NOT what our customers are using now...'
    
    Gee, my ENGINEERING customers are using workstations and from what I
    have heard, so are Digital's engineers.  The difference is that a lot
    of the SOFTWARE the customer's engineers are using does NOT run on our
    workstations.  Can you say "Mentor or CADAM or ...".
    
    My customer visited the CTC and saw many of the wonderful, integrated,
    HOME GROWN environments our engineers were using, but then decided that
    commercially available packages were better because of:
    
    	1.	large user base so input from user groups
    
    	2.	support and continual upgrade versions
    
    
    Yup, we need both PC and workstation experience.
    
    Now, as to the comment that 'most field offices are well equipped' -
    most of the comments from the field would tend to disagree, but you
    know us field folk, we always want so much... workstations, bigger
    cars, cellular phones, cafeterias, training, DCU offices, access to the
    VMS $ from our captive A1 accounts, etc.  What has happened to the
    'tradition' of making do with what you got?
    
    	-Barry_who_can't_wait_for_his_customer's_LOP_workstations_
    	 to_be_delivered_so_he_can_use_one-
    

    re: .32
    
    I did say 'with the exception of our ENGINEERING clients', didn't I?
    
    If I were a betting man, I would wager that you belong to one of our
    professional consulting organizations.  Although things have gotten
    better there over the last year, they are not nearly as good as they
    need to be; nor have they kept pace with many of their sister
    organizations. I would still place them in the category of 'less 
    enlightened', if you catch my drift.
    
    Al
    

    Sorry, I missed the exception you made for engineering.  I was getting
    upset at the overall 'attitude' and missed the details.
    
    There are more exceptions then engineering - my counterparts in the
    financial industries are seeing great influx of workstations as well. 
    Part of my client account is scientific research and guess what, the
    Silicon Graphics workstation is a great favorite.  Each week, the
    Aerospace Industry report has info on RFP's for workstations at
    government sites.
    
    As to your bet - if you want to call anyone in the EIS organization
    part of the consulting organization, then I gladly accept the title,
    however I am not involved in delivery.  My role is the Sr. Integration
    Consultant (ex-title SWS Corporate Account Manager) for our 24th
    largest account.  My observations are based on 3 years in this job and
    the 12 before it in other positions in SWS in the field - doing all the
    things it took to satisfy customers and grow Digital; sales support,
    warranty, delivery, project management, etc.  Previous experience was
    12 years in software development, program management, systems
    integration and development and private consulting.
    
    While this may not belong in this note, my deepest concerns at the
    moment are:
    
    1.	our product development and marketing people are too 'inbred' and
    	too remote and, therefore, do not understand real customer needs
    	both technical (products) and business (licensing for example)
    
    2.	new people hired from the outside are either at too low a level and
    	cannot influence change or are at high levels (managerial) and
    	bring too much of a 'numbers' management and personal career
    	management bag.
    
    
    	-Barry_grey_but_still_tilting_at_the_windmill-
    

    If we used what people are buying, we would be using PCs, not
    workstations.  Apple alone, with only 10-15 percent of "PC" sales,
    ships more Macintosh computers in a month than DEC ships workstations
    in a year.
    
    Now, it may be true that our customers are buying workstations.  That
    is somewhat circular, because that is what we develop for and sell.
    Obviously if somebody wanted something other than what we sell, they
    wouldn't BE our customers.
    
    If we would like to have more customers (instead of just relying on
    selling new stuff to old customers for our growth), maybe we should
    understand what they do want and respond to that.

    re: .34, item 1
    
    Speaking only for myself and those close to me, I agree that our
    product development people do not understand real customer needs well
    enough because we are too remote from customers.  I wish there was
    an institutionalized program to keep product developers in touch with
    customers.  The semi-annual DECUS symposia used to do that, to some
    extent, but only a small fraction of the developers get to attend
    DECUS nowadays.
        John Sauter

    
    >><<product development people do not understand real customer needs
    well enough because we are too remote from customers.  I wish there was
    an institutionalized program to keep product developers in touch with
    customers>>
    
    I'm sure this has been thought of before but I think I'll send it up
    to Ideas Central @OGO as an idea for such an institutionalized program.
    
    In order to create a greater sense of ownership with the users, and to
    get in REAL close touch with those customer users, I suggest putting
    the names of all developer team members with complete
    telephone numbers on a sticker on every given product developed by that
    team - accountability means your name is on the product:
    
         THIS PRODUCT WAS DEVELOPED BY THE FOLLOWING DIGITAL TEAM
         IF YOU HAVE ANY FEEDBACK (LIKES, DISLIKES, SUGGESTIONS)
                 REGARDING THIS PRODUCT, PLEASE CALL US!
                          name, telephone number
                          name, telephone number
                          name, telephone number
    

    re:  .37  "The Signature Edition"
    
>   the names of all developer team members with complete
>    telephone numbers on a sticker on every given product developed by that
>   team - accountability means your name is on the product:

    This reminds me of the original MAC production run, with the names
    of the guilty parties written on the inside of the case.  While I
    believe that it's a good psychological booster ("This computer was
    designed by: John") I don't doubt that the inclusion of telephone
    numbers would be heavily discouraged by Engineering.  After all,
    that's what documentation is for, right?
    
    The two most prevalent attitudes I run into at Engineering can be
    summed up thusly:
    
    "If we let customers bother our engineers with problems or suggestions
     then we would never get any products out the door"
    
    "The customer doesn't know what he wants, but we're smart enough to
     give him what he needs anyway"
    
    I may sound bitter on this, but I'm actually almost quoting word-for-
    word a mail message that I received from a SW engineer just about
    two weeks ago.  I was prompted to ask whether on not any of the last
    few missives from the EC about customer satisfaction had ever graced
    his mail account, and the answer was, verbatim:
    
    "Yes, but that doesn't apply to us."
    
    How can you answer a statement like that?  The frightening thing is
    that this is concerning a new product that is trying to penetrate an
    overcrowded market, no less.  My cut is that I better get a copy of
    the software, scrounge the hardware, and spend nights and weekends
    learning how to support the product.  My alternative is *real* simple,
    used by Field people all the time for products just like this:
    
    "Product XYZ?  Never heard of it.  Are you sure DEC still sells it?"
    (Sounds of SUN, IBM, and HP marketeers snickering in the background)
    
    Sad but true.
    

    re .35
    
    Please be careful about using the 'absolute' numbers of PCs and MACs
    being shipped as representative of "OUR" customer market.  That number
    includes personal use, etc. and other places we have not 'targetted'.
    
    The point that does come thru is a good one:
    
    First, we need to understand the market - both the overall market for
    Digital products and services AND the target market for the 'local'
    office.
    
    Then, we can make educated decisions on what (technology, style, etc.)
    makes sense for the individuals and geographies CONCENTRATING on that
    market need to know and have experience with.
    
    
    	-Barry-
    

    re "places we have not targeted".
    
    Perhaps our chosen "target" is too small.  I don't mean home use of
    computers, either.

    Let's be careful about dumping on the 'developers'.
    
    For example, as a PCSA specialist I find the PCSG and relevant NAC
    (TAN?) engineers very responsive.  However, they, and we in the field,
    are frequently overridden by product management - in other words, 
    marketing.  I've lost count of the number of times an engineer has
    ruefully had to admit that they'd love to add/fix that bit of
    functionality - but their manager won't allow it.

    
    Keep in mind that the line between a PC and a workstation is blurring
    more and more! It seems to me that what makes a MAC II is a PC or a
    workstation is what it's being used for. I feel better when I call my
    Amiga a low-end workstation but someone else might feel better calling
    it a PC. To each his own...
    
    Can we move this discussion around what's wrong with engineering to
    another note? I'm interesting in exploring the actual implementation of
    workstations for Sales Reps and other non-technical users. 
    
    Why should those workstations be managed by Sales Consultants as a
    second job? What benefit is there to the Sales Rep (not the Consultant
    since I'm assuming they've got their own to handle)? What's the problem
    with IS doing it?
    
    I agree that IS shouldn't be in the business of supporting SWS systems
    (not that my managment agrees with me on this) but I can see reasons
    for supporting all others. Yes, there will be restrictions but there
    will also be benefits.
    
    -Ray
    
    
    
    

    re: .-1
    
>    Keep in mind that the line between a PC and a workstation is blurring
>    more and more! It seems to me that what makes a MAC II is a PC or a
    
>    Why should those workstations be managed by Sales Consultants as a
>    second job? What benefit is there to the Sales Rep (not the Consultant
    
    You're right that the line between PC and workstation is blurring with
    respect to the relative power of the platf  The real difference is
    the operating system, and the amount of time and knowledge required to
    make the platform usable.  Both VMS and ULTRIX bite the big one when
    compared to DOS or the MAC environment.  I believe that this is one of
    the reasons why workstations should not be proliferated in non-expert
    environments.  It's all too easy for Sales to see that the hardware
    cost difference between PPC's and workstations is smal.  What they will
    not realize is that the *support* costs are REAL and EXTENSIVE, both
    in time spent tying up valuable support resources, and in frustration
    from the user community.
    
    I  hope that the situation will change, that we willher get the
    O/S management problems solved, or that we will at least try some
    different approaches (e.g. the SUN method of pre-installing software).
    Until then, I think that Sales would be better served by having a
    simpler-yet-still-powerful PC or MAC on their desks to contend with.
    They have enough other problems as it is without adding yet another
    source of stress to their lives ...
    
    IMHO,
    
    Geoff Unland
    
    

    Man, can DECCies rathole a topic !
    
    Back to the base topic - the example as given describes a brain-dead
    Sales Management matrix.  Where I work, TUO, we've built a small but
    very usable office automation slash workstation demonstration room
    exclusively out of rotational hardware.  The configurations tend to 
    be loaded with options (or not) as Sales projects its (eventual) 
    saleability.
    
    Yes, it's sometimes a struggle to keep equipment in-house.  Those reps
    that believe they need loaners get them, and are personally responsible
    for their whereabouts and general health.  Yes, the SWS (sorry, 'Sales
    Support') folks sometimes get stuck loading these machines, and get stuck 
    covering customer support issues rightfully belonging to the CSCs, as 
    the loaner gear at the customer is rarely covered with a valid software 
    contract.  But sometime getting 'stuck' updating a machine is the only
    exposure I have to that software on that machine - experience is
    experience, no matter how it comes.
    
    A note - everyone doesn't NEED a workstation on their desk !  
    (I do, of course!)
    
    Paradoxically, now that Sales (here) has seen the light regarding
    having and KEEPING current products in the office, our REAL problem is
    that we can't add any new nodes to the Easynet, because Area 16 is out
    of node numbers !  So now we're into TCP/IP and DECnet Hidden Areas.
    And just wait for those networked LPS20's to hit the street, which also
    require a valid DECnet node address.
    
    Also paradoxically opposing the need for local Sales Offices to have
    and use their own systems, there has in the last two years been a big 
    push to CENTRALIZE DEC's field computing resources - we use the Tustin 
    CA data center machines for ALL-IN-1 mail and VTX access.
    
    BTW, TUO *IS* where K.O. periodically visits.  We already had our
    rotational gear strategy underway for three years before his first
    visit last summer.  (We're about to upgrade to SALSA:: the 5th.)
    His only comment on the office setup was that we should make sure 
    that we were prepared to demo PCSA at all times. So we do.  
    
    Wouldn't you ?
    
    Karl Moeller SS Consultant Western Area Volume

I arrived here in the Field in January 1990. I was immediately encouraged to 
get an order in for a rotational workstation. The philosophy in our district 
seems to be that ANYONE who thinks a workstation (or whatever) will make 
them more productive can get one. In fact, if you can prove that it's worth it
you can also get equipment above and beyond a VTxxx at home.

I'm resident at Xerox and have my workstation and postscript printer
prominently displayed in our office on Vendor row (surrounded by IBM et al).
The only disadvantage is that its not on the EASYnet. We'll be demoing DECmcc, 
DECplan, and DCM utilizing that workstation. And whenever we need to put some 
slides or documentation together for a presentation or meeting... presto, 
they're done in minutes. Is it worth it? No doubt about it. These tools just
helped us to close a $4M+ sale. 

My understanding is that upper management (KO, Jack Smith, Dave Grainger) have
said that any Sales/Sales Support people that need workstations or PCs to do 
their job can get them. In fact I saw somewhere recently that $12M of
equipment has been shipped to the Field to solve the problem alluded to in
the base note. It appears that some District Managers are unwilling to make
this investment. If you are in one of those Districts, I suggest you start
making a lot of noise. 

Jim

Rochester, NY General Unit
Sales Support Consultant

    Jim, how's it going out there ?
    
    Jim