Conference 7.286::digital

Hmmm. And the Microvax II's are probably nearing "mature product" status too.

I'm going to figure how much discount is represented by these figures
and will post them here.

Lee

    	Taken off the list of purchasable categories is PRINTERS, VT200,
    	and VT300 series video terminals.
    
    	It appears that Digital no longer sells individual terminals
    	to employees.
    
    	What gives?
    

All of the prices you posted are %60 of list price; i.e. a 40% discount
for employees.

Either EPP just changed their pricing scheme or the list price of these systems
has really skyrocketed!

Lee

P.s. As an aside, the newer PC's are listed in the VTX EPP database also.
They appear to be priced according to the same discount scheme as the Microvax
II's.

For specific discussions of the Employee purchase program, wait for the
conference on SHALOT::EMPPURPRO to become available again...

Re: .2, missing tubes and printers

It appears that whoever maintains the VTX base cannot figure out how to
get multiple pages of menu choices. The new PC's took up a number of
menu items and it appears that items such as VT's and printers got 'shoved off
the end'.

This is not an attempt to throw stones at those that maintain the EPP VTX
base, it is my understanding that there is little support staff for it.

I recall seeing a note not long ago in the EPP notesfile asking for
someone that has VTX expertiese to help out...

Lee

In all fairness, the prices listed under 'VAXstation Options' as listed in the
EPP VTX database seem pretty nice, especially the price on a 150Mb hard disk!
(or is it called a 'hard file'?)   ;^)

    
    	I was looking to buy a World Box MicroVAX II. When I started
    	looking at it, less than two months ago, the price was ~$6500 for a
    	system. Same system now is over $25,000. What a bunch of 
    	bovine feces! An almost 400% increase for a dying product.
    
    	Anything to improve the PROFIT PICTURE...
    
    	Thoroughly Disgusted   :<)
    	

        Complaining about the Employee Purchase Program in HUMAN::DIGITAL
        isn't going to accomplish anything useful.  Although I haven't
        followed the SHALOT::EMPPURPRO conference in a while, it's much
        more likely to be watched by the people responsible for the
        program. 
        
        I know that the addition of the new DECstation PCs, as well as the
        VAXstation 3100, is an idea that received a lot interest and
        enthusiasm from fairly senior managers (I've seen the memos that
        were floating around).  I suspect that the changes needed may have
        had some unanticipated side effects. 
        
        If complaining makes you feel better, you can continue to do so
        here, but if you want to fix the problem, I'd suggest calling the
        Employee Purchase Program hotline at 800-235-0505 and asking for
        the name of the program manager, then express your concerns to him
        or her directly.
        
        Tom

    I don't think I've looked in SHALOT::EMPPURPRO within the past week 
    or so but last time I did the participation had dropped to near zero.  
    As has my hope that the price of a VAXstation would ever come down 
    to something I be willing to shell out.  This is particularly 
    frustrating since my primary use would be work related.  

    From what I've seen complaining in SHALOT::EMPPURPRO has done little 
    good, and I think many people have given up complaining there.  As 
    for a individual taking it up with the EPP manager a good idea,  but 
    I've seen several examples of this being done with little result.  

    As for bring it up in *this conference doing no good?  Maybe, but 
    history says otherwise.  

    part of the picture is that they may have raised the price to the
    real world to encourage purchace of the 3*** series.
    
    Only thing is our price was also raised in parrallel.
    
    Its been done before and is part of the marketing picture.



              

    guess that means we turn to the 'used' &/or 'refurbed' dealers to
    buy VAXes (& MV's) so we can do DEC work at home??

RE: .9
    
>    Its been done before and is part of the marketing picture.

If thinking that there are DEC employees who are able to buy $40,000
systems is part of the marketing picture then no wonder we're in such
bad shape right now.  Clearly some organization has completely lost
touch with the market.

	About 10 years ago I got a hold of the then employee purchase
	policy. I noted with humor that there was spicific mention of
	DECsystem-10s. If you think $40,000 is out of range think of
	how far out a DECsystem-10 was. I think it is good that DEC
	doesn't just offer us the lowest priced items. Who knows we
	may have several independently rich people who could afford high
	end systems. It's kind of nice to know they can buy them at
	discount.

	I don't think anyone really believes that a lot of employees
	are going to buy $40,000 systems. Or even $10,000 systems. I
	mean what do you realy *need* one for? If you really need one
	at home to do DECs work then DEC should buy it right? Now 'want'
	is a whole nother word but for me, at least, I have higher
	priority items for my money than computers. (But then I already
	bought a Rainbow a few years ago.)

				Alfred

re    <<< Note 806.10 by DIXIE1::SILVERS "Onsite at Monsanto-Pensacola,FL" >>>
                              -< look elsewhere? >-

>    guess that means we turn to the 'used' &/or 'refurbed' dealers to
>    buy VAXes (& MV's) so we can do DEC work at home??

        If needs be, but let me suggest to you and the indignant noters.
        that a) you get in touch with the program manager for the employee
        purchase plan and ask for the true facts rather than getting upset
        over what may just be an error in calculating the prices. b) If
        you do have a valid need to do DEC work at home, then you get your
        CC Manager to pay for a terminal and or system for this purpose.
        (Oh, well it doesn't justify the expense to the Cost Center? SO
        how can you justify the expense to yourself?)
        
        C'mon people, EPP is a benefit, it is not a god-given right. IT is
        staffed by people who can make mistakes occasionally just like
        everyone else, and is plagued with the usual problems of budgets,
        etc that anyone else in the organization is. CUt them a little
        slack. GIve them a call, ask for clarification. And if, they have
        intentionally raised the prices through the roof, then complain to
        them, not us...
        
        q
        
        

	Being the curious sort I decided to look into the VTX database
	myself. Interestingly enough it appears to have been updated
	today. What follows are some sample prices. While I don't have
	a price book with MLP these appear to be pretty good prices.

 Product 		 Description 	   Special Msg 		  Est. Price
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DH-625N1-BA        MV2000,4MB,RD32,RX33                            4,401.00
DH-625N2-BA        MV2000 6MG RD32, RX3                            5,643.00
DH-625N3-AA        MVAX2000,4MB,RD53,US                            4,740.00
DH-625N4-AA        MV2000,6MB,RD53,US                              5,508.00
DJ-PV014-BA        VS3100 MODEL 30 WORK   VMS W/LIC B/W MONITO     7,795.00
DH-630Q1-FA        MVII BA23 5MB RD53 D                           14,331.00
DH-630Q2-HA        MVII,5MB,BA23,RD54,T                           15,249.00
DH-630Q4-JA        MVII BA123 9MB 2XRD5                           27,039.00
DH-630Q4-KA        MVII BA123 5MB 2XRD5                           25,309.00
DH-630Q3-JA        MVII BA123 5MB RD54/                           21,111.00
DH-630Q3-HA        MVII,BA123,5MB RQDX3                           19,491.00
DH-630Q2-FA        MVII,5MB,BA23,RQDX3/                           14,201.00
DH-630Q5-HA        MVII 16MB H9642 KDA/                           28,620.00
DH-630Q6-BA        MVII 16MB H9642 KDA/                           38,700.00

	The following contact information was also given in the
	VTX database.

		Administrative Issues 
		 Gerry Leblanc
		 DTN  264-5441
		 (603) 884-5441

	If you are really interested in a computer check it out yourself.

		Alfred

    
    	Here's another side to this story.  I've been with DEC for 13
    years now and I do some of DEC's work at home.  I truely wanted
    to buy DEC but the price always seemed to be a bit high.  My cost
    Center managers were always nice enough to loan me equipment to
    take home to do the work but I always had to bring it back after
    a while "because they needed it for another purpose".  I recently
    changed jobs and really got tired of going through the process of
    signing out equipment to use so I looked into DEPP.  I found that
    I could get a better deal from a competitor and from the 'used or
    refurbed' dealers.  I now own an A**le and it cost me a whole lot
    less than what DEPP could come close to.  My feeling is if DEC wanted
    us to use them they would have priced them so we could afford them
    and still be competitve in the markets.
    
    			Tom Terriffic
    

    re: The title of this Note...
    	It's really not accurate to say that Digital DOES IT ...to
    	employees.
    
    	The situation is not that they've done something....it's
    	that they've obviously chosen NOT to do something.
    
    	It's apparently NOT any sort of corporate goal, or seen as
    	even remotely in the corporation's interest for employees
    	to be able to purchase our products at reasonable discounts.
    
    	As long as management either doesn't understand/care about
    	the benefits, you'll be offered those $40,000 MicroVaxes...
    
    	Steve h

RE: .13

>        over what may just be an error in calculating the prices. b) If
>        you do have a valid need to do DEC work at home, then you get your
>        CC Manager to pay for a terminal and or system for this purpose.
>        (Oh, well it doesn't justify the expense to the Cost Center? SO
>        how can you justify the expense to yourself?)

Not all organizations enjoy luxury when it comes to equipment. In
certain margin oriented organizations the management would rather have
15 team members work 80 hrs a week for months at a time doing their
project on an 11/780 than shell the few thousand bucks for the internal
cost of a VAXstations.  The CC may not be able to justify it but 40 hrs
a week justifies it to the employee.

        Folks, please!  All of this is just a rehash of the complaining
        that's happened over and over in the SHALOT::EMPPURPRO conference,
        and quite frankly, I'm not really surprised that participation
        in that conference has dropped off if there's nothing better
        in there than complaining.
        
        Since SHALOT:: seems to be back among the living today, could you
        PLEASE move this discussion there?  If you have suggestions on how
        to make the Employee Purchase Program better, get in touch with
        Gerry LeBlanc and find out who really makes the decisions. 
        
        Tom

    
    Well, it appears to be a done deal anyway.
    
    See livewire 5/9/89. The letter's in the mail.
    
    Do they really think they fooled anyone???
    

[The 'LIVEWIRE' posting from US LIVEWIRE VTX base. 09-May-89.]

                   Desktop Employee Purchase Program announced

   Employees can now purchase Digital's desktop system packages through the 
   Digital Employee Purchase Program at 50% off list price.  Through DEPP, 
   employees can enjoy savings of up to 40% off on all other products except 
   buyout software, which is discounted at 20% off.

   Says Mike Kalagher, manager, U.S. Administration, "Over 2,500 employee 
   inquiries have been made to the Employee Purchase Program since we announced 
   our family of desktop products in January.  With the anticipated increase 
   in sales through the program, we thought it made sense to simplify the total 
   Employee Purchase Program."  

   A letter will be mailed to all employees next week telling them about 
   the packaged systems available and the introductory offer of free software.

   "In addition," says John Rose, manager, Personal Computing Systems Group, 
   "thanks to our joint development program with Apple, which was announced 
   last year, employees are eligible for a discount of roughly 30% on Apple 
   personal computers."  John adds that the Apple discount program is not 
   part of the expanded DEPP; it's just another option for employees.  If 
   you're interested, call (1-800) 446-3000, Ext. 900.  Request the Employee 
   Package.

   To order from DEPP using MasterCard or VISA, call 1-800-DIGITAL.  Purchases 
   are limited to two systems per employee per year.  For price and product
   detail on all products offered through DEPP, access the Corporate Videotex
   Library (type $ VTX), then select #20, Employee Benefits and Services.  The 
   Employee Purchase Program is #2 on the menu.

    
    This note has been writelocked. Please pursue this topic in
    SHALOT::EMPPURPRO as has been requested.
    
    Andy
    Co-Moderator, Digital.

    
    
    This note has been re-opened.
    
    Andy

    I think THIS conference should know about one MAJOR change.
    
    Last week (before the update), VTX listed DEC-developed software
    at roughly $20 per license.  VMS unlimited was around $21!
    
    Today, "MicroVMS License" is $1714.
    
    At these prices, they're not going to sell a lot!

    Thats exciting. We don't have a "MicroVMS" product any more.

	You know, what I would like to see is a true employee benefit here. 
If you look at the letter which is in another conference they will be 
offering the VAXstation 3100 for about $8k. I would like to see Digital let 
every employee buy one on the following basis.

	The employee would pay $3k over 5 years with Digital "gifting" a 
$1000 of the $5k balance each year. This would declared as income each year 
to the employee and an expense to Digital. Digital would also finance the
system at a 10% imputed interest rate each year for IRS purposes, but not
charge the employee interest. This would be income to the employee and an 
expense to Digital. The benefit would be available to employees after 5 
years of service. The employee would sign a contract which would state if 
they left Digital, the balance would be due on leaving the company.

	This would mean it would cost the employee about $50/month for the 
system + $?? for maintenance on the system. There would also be the tax on 
the gift income and the unpaid but incurred interest on the system cost. I 
think this brings it right into the realm of a good portion of people. 

	What do you think?

    I guess I've got to pipe in here.   The PC program might not be such a
    bad deal.   The MicroVAX systems are awfully expensive.
    
    I need a personal computer at home.   I just bought a new one.  I have
    a Mac Plus.  I had planned on spending a bit of money, and  momentarily
    considered the  MicroVAX from the employee purchase program.   But, 
    I remembered that I wanted my family to be able to use the machine.
    Quite honestly, the VAX is a wonderful programmer's machine.  It's not
    a very friendly off-the-shelf turnkey system.
    
    I ended up buying a Mac IIcx, at DEC's 30% employee discount.  It comes
    to life in 15 seconds.  A MicroVAX would take, minimally, what, 4 or 5
    minutes?  My wife (who's getting to be less intimidated by computers)
    can type a test and print it on spirit masters in two minutes per page. 
    With the VAX and queues and etc, it'd take forever.   Even to employees
    VAX software is expensive.  My spreadsheet (Microsoft Excel) cost
    <$300, and is leaps and bounds above anything DEC makes in
    capabilities.  Word processing too.
    
    Granted, the VAX is powerful.  I even tried to convince my brother in
    law to get one for his small business, but our printer offerings in
    the small end don't quite match his needs.  It's just not my idea of
    "a personal computer".
    
    So, independent of the large price increases, why do people buy VAX
    machines for home use?

re: .26

Your idea is a good one.  However, it still won't work because, (at least 6
months ago), employees don't get a break on maintenance.  Maintenance on any
reasonably configured VAX computer is several hundred dollars a month.
Because of this, the only way I could afford a VAX computer would be if I
could get it for a price such that if something broke, I could just throw
it away and buy another.

re: .27

> So, independent of the large price increases, why do people buy VAX
> machines for home use?

The whole point is, they don't and given the current policies, they never
will.

Bob_who_better_shut_up_before_he_gets_really_p*ssed

    Someone in the EMPPURPRO notesfile rebuked those complaining
    about the prices saying in effect that "the stockholders would
    object to DEC 'losing money' on systems for employee use" and
    therefore employees shouldn't expect generous discounts.

    Bunk. If you held DEC stock would you be up in arms if
    employees were getting a generous discount? I seriously doubt
    Apple/IBM/GM/Ford stockholders worry about such things... or
    even aware of them. I feel that getting more product into the
    hands of the employee will go a long way towards building
    knowledge of both our products and 'industry standard'
    products. It appears that much of this equipment is not going
    to find its way to our desktop at work, so the company might as
    well make it easy to put them on our desks at home.
    
    The problem is that this dual benefit (to both DEC and the
    employee) cannot be measured in bottom line numbers. And in the
    current fi$cal climate, it would seem that it is difficult to
    deploy anything that would appear to be (on paper anyway) a
    money losing proposition. And it is difficult for the company
    to frankly discuss the profit (or lack of) on EPP equipment
    because it would reveal their margins for the products to
    competitors.

    And, it is no doubt obvious that nothing being discussed here
    is new... discussions of thie sort happen each time a new
    'wave' of equipment hits the EPP shelves. At least this time it
    is available fairly soon after initial customer offering.
    
    I wonder what the rationale is at other companies for offering
    employees discounts and/or loaner equipment? Here at DEC it
    seems that the latest offerings are a result of many employee
    queries about purchase. I would venture to say companies that
    offer loaner equipment are doing so from the employee education
    aspect. But VAXstations are quite a league apart (dollarwise)
    from Macs/PC's/Apples, so I'm sure it is much more realistic
    for a company like Apple to loan out it's popular products to
    employees than it would be for DEC to loan out VAXstations.

    Lee
    

re .29:

>    Someone in the EMPPURPRO notesfile rebuked those complaining
>    about the prices saying in effect that "the stockholders would
>    object to DEC 'losing money' on systems for employee use" and
>    therefore employees shouldn't expect generous discounts.
>
>    Bunk. If you held DEC stock would you be up in arms if
>    employees were getting a generous discount?

Absolutely right! One of our absolute biggest problems right now is getting
rid of the idea that success is the revenue from boxes, and nothing else counts.

OK, we may still depend mostly on shipping boxes, but in the future we can't
(that's what Ken Olsen, Pier-Carlo Falotti and the other brass say). In the
long term we will sell expertise and the total range of equipment to put it
into practice. In the medium term we have to use our expertise to leverage our
software and hardware.

I would love to have a home computer, but like other noters here, I am looking
at two differing requirements:

	(1) Something I can use at home

	and

	(2) Something my wife can use, and my kids can use.

Given free choice, I think I can just about make a VAX solution fit the second
requirement. Give me a VS3100 with DECwindows and all the trimmings (DECwrite,
DECdecision, a laser printer, some languages and tools...) and I can get by
with one machine. But I will NEVER begin to be able to afford it. From previous
replies, what I would need is:

	* At least a 66% discount

	* Free maintenance - say it's bundled with the purchase price

	* Free software (except stuff we have to pay for, such as Ultrix).

There's another problem, which can only get worse. If you look in the
SECURITY_POLICY and SECURITY_INFORMATION conferences, you will find somewhere
that security demands that people working from home not have access to any
confidential information! (because it goes over an open line, also because
your spouse/children might see it).

So - I guess I save up till I can afford a PC clone, and bring up my children
to do things the IBM way. Not my choice, but... 

--Tom

    I work from home often. I have access to confidential information.
    Often I *riginate* such information. SHould i cease working from home?

    re: -1
    After reading that reference yesterday, I was wondering the same
    thing. I checked those security conferences, but they are large
    and Im swamped in a project.
    
    Can anyone substantiate this? 
    
    

        If you want to investigate how to handle proprietary information
        on systems in your home, here are some relevant standards that
        can be found in VTX:

        Under VTX EASYNET, entry `Security Standards', there is an
        entry for `Proprietary Information Protection Policy'.

        Under VTX DIS, Digital Information Systems Policies and
        Procedures, there are entries for `Electronic Information
        Protection' (3.10), `Electronic Information Access' (3.11),
        `Connection to EASYnet' (6.11), `Connection of Systems
        Not  Owned by Digital to Internal Data Networks' (6.13).
        Policy 6.13 seems especially relevant.

        					B.J.

        How quickly we stray from "Employee Purchase Program woes" to
        issues around protection of Digital's proprietary information on
        home computer systems. 
        
        Tom

    I think that if this keeps up-  watch out Digital. If they're charging
    us this amount, then what kind of company would it take to buy our
    systems?   A very rich one.  I think that the prices of our systems has
    to come way down or else we will.  There are too many average people in
    this world; these are the type we should sell to, then we'd have the
    upper edge.

    re: .27(?)
    
    What would anyone want with a microvax in thier home?  As one who
    has over $20K in computers and electronics at home, I can give you
    a few ideas:
    
    Learn VMS	(really learn, hands-on, all the dirty details)
    Learn Macro
    Learn to write device drivers
    Write device drivers (see below)
    Figure out the Q-bus and build custom peripherals
    Set up a Space-related BBS using NOTES
    Learn C
    write lotsa C programs for lists maintainance, home control,
    	teleoperated vehicle control, graphics, etc
    Get my S.O. hooked on VMS and Vaxen so she will stop badmouthing
    	the poor uVax-II at her work running Ultrix.
    Get my S.O. (the SW expert) to fire up UUCP under VMS and get our
    	machine up on the internet (elskov.sunswick.mv.com?).
    Learn about QIO calls and data structures and neat features of VMS
    	so I don't have to spend literally _weeks_ getting up to speed
    	on them during company time.
    Add an RRD50 (or 40) drive and see about getting the Nasa CDROMs
    	with planetary spacecraft images on them.  Then it's a SMOP
    	to convert to UIS or GKS or Sixels or ....
    
    Need I continue?  All that off the top of my head in a couple of
    minutes.  I was trying to fit the $10K price of an appropriately
    configured microvax-II into our budget, but now the price has more
    than doubled, and my S.O. keeps mentioning Suns.....
    
    Willie
    

    
    re .36
    
    8-)
    
    Suns! (ack!)
    
    I just got done reading a memo where DEC beat out Sun with a major
    customer who had been previously using Sun workstations. The 
    customer found that DEC's products were significantly better in all
    areas.
    
    I had to smile, then again I'm biased.
    
    /prc

Re .36:

>    write lotsa C programs for lists maintainance, home control,
	    *****^*****
>    	teleoperated vehicle control, graphics, etc
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ye gads.  You forgot to mention air traffic control and direct control of
nuclear reactors.
				/AHM

    		... and the navigation systems for oil tankers.

    re: .36 [ack, suns]
    
    Yabut, when Suns are $5K and uVaxen are $10K I've got a fight on
    my hands, but when uVaxen are $20-25K there's no contest....
    
    Willie
    

    re: .38 [gack, C, teleop]
    
    It's not as bad as it seems, the vehicle is currently based on a model
    truck chassis (1/10 scale), and there's an operator in charge, the
    computer just works the control laws and provides the 3-second delay
    and various logging functions.  It's currently running on an S-100
    machine with several pounds of Z-80 code, so a microvax and C would be
    a step _up_!
    
    Willie 
    

    Could someone please post a copy of the letter that all DEC employees
    were supposed to have rec'd last week.  I haven't rec'd it and would
    like to know what's happening?
    
    

    Well, I recently ordered a PC under the employee purchase program.
     I eagerly awaited the arrival of my DJ-PC425-BA.  Unfortunately,
    they shipped my a DJ-PC425-AA instead.  Hope we do a better job
    shipping our external customers what they ordered.

.42> Could someone please post a copy of the letter that all DEC employees
.42> were supposed to have rec'd last week.  I haven't rec'd it and would
.42> like to know what's happening?

    The letter is rather long (two pages, both sides) but I'll post
    the prices here.

    System		Config				List	EPP
    ------		------				----	---
    DJ-PC410-AA		210, 640 KB, Keyboard, 3.5",
    			MS-DOS, LA75-P, b/w		3,482	1,695
    
    DJ-PC415-AA		DJ-PC410-AA + 40 MB		4,847	2,395
    
    DJ-PC420-BA		316, 1MB, 3.5, keyboard,
    			MS-DOS, LA75P, color		4,787	2,375
    
    DJ-PC425-BA		DJ-PC420-BA + 40 MB		6,152	2,995
    
    DJ-PC430-BA		320, 2MB, 3.5, keyboard,
    			MS-DOS, LA75P, color		6,262	3,095
    
    DJ-PC435-BA		DJ-PC430-BA + 80 MB		8,152	3,995
    
    DJ-PV014-BA		Model 30, 8 MB, b/w, keyboard,
    			mouse, VMS, Desktopo VMS base,
    			(2) RZ23, (1) RX23, thinwire,
    			thinwire, ethernet, LA75, doc. 15,752	7,795
    
    In addition, by ordering before 21 June you get your choice of
    Microsoft Works or Wordperfect with floppy based systems, or Lotus
    Symphony or dBase IV with hard disk system, or VMS DECwindows on
    CDROM with VAXstation 3100 - free...
    
    Quite frankly, I have not done any competitive pricing so I don't
    know if these are reasonable, but, the $2,395 system (PC415) looks
    reasonable to me...especially when you consider the LA75 and Lotus
    included...comments?
    
    		Jerry 

    I just got my EMP thingie in the mail yesterday andf a couple of
    (serious) questions came to mind:
    
    1) How does DESKTOP VMS on the VS3100 work without a CD-ROM reader?
    2) How would I use the Ethernet kit they supply for the VS3100 at home?
       If I bought one of these, would Digital run an Ethernet from the office
       to my home?

    Re: .45
    
    
    That had occurred to me also (at least item 1).  However, this is
    probably the wrong forum for such questions. Why not call 1-800-DIGITAL
    (the number given in the letter) and ask them?
    
    As for the Ethernet question - be serious!  The configuration they
    are selling happens to come an integral Ethernet adapter.  So what
    if you can't use it?  Maybe some folks will buy two and run their
    own LAN at home?
    
    					Steve

    Re: .45, .46
    
    Boy, if I bought one of those, then if I got (a) a cheap DEQNA, and (b)
    a DELNI, I could hook the VS3100 to my MicroVAX I at home...
    
    Pipe dream city.
    
    john

    Or, a cheap DEQNA and a DESTA (which is a *LOT* cheaper than a DELNI.)

    We've been tossing DEQNAs in the trash around here when they get
    replaced in our MicroVAX systems with DELQAs.  I've got one serving
    as a paperweight.  Should be easy enough to find one.
    
    			Steve

I don't want to continue a rathole, but shortly I will post a pointer to
a note that contains the offical company stance on the DEQNA/DELQA support
issue. I don't want any of the previous replies about these Ethernet interfaces
to be interpreted the wrong way for our customers or internal folkes.

Lee

        RE: Note 806.49 

>                          -< Cheap?  How about free? >-
>
>    We've been tossing DEQNAs in the trash around here when they get
>    replaced in our MicroVAX systems with DELQAs.  I've got one serving
>    as a paperweight.  Should be easy enough to find one.
>    



	It's amazing how many things are thrown away in this company,
	especially when we are trying to cut expenses!

	- Mike

    Re: .52
    
    Since we've been told that the DEQNAs will not be supported by a future
    version of VMS, and since we've experienced many Ethernet problems due
    to DEQNAs, what else should we do with them?  
    
    If you have an answer to this question, address it to Field Service,
    since they're the ones who are saying they don't want the DEQNAs
    back.
    
    				Steve

    Rumor and speculation on any product is not good.
    I'm still uncomfortable when we talk about this product in the manner
    of .53 [not aimed at Steve in particular].  The product manager
    for any product should be consulted for specific details.
    DEQNAs can be used in a lot of applications.  Given the proper
    revision, it IS a stable product.  It does have limitations in 
    high %NI traffic.  It is supported across all software lines in
    phase 4 decnet applications.
    VMS does not have plans to support it in phase V decnet.  Other
    software may support it.  Its replacement does have advantages
    tha VMS would like to take advantage of.
    There are programs in the planning stage to cover situations
    where it would be advantageous to upgrade.  A blanket swap
    is not in everyone's best interest.  In fact some applications
    may not be able to use its replacement as its replacement is
    not 100% compatible.

    
    I haven't got the faintest idea of where to make this suggestion,
    so let me put it here.
    
    There is minimal enthusiasm towards the Employee Purchase Program,
    at least here in our neck of the woods (NJ). When I worked for RCA,
    we had a VERY successful employee purchase program. The secret was
    that when you bought things, you paid for them via payroll deductions,
    and very, very low interest rates.
    
    Buying a $1200 VCR was virually unnoticeable when it was paid off
    the top of your paycheck over 2 years. It did wonders to move
    things, despite prices higher than "Crazy Eddie", and better products
    from other vendors.
    
    I suspect that a program like this, with say Apple PC's included
    would be a huge success. Not that the EPP isn't a success - it's
    just that I've never heard of one single person using it yet.
    
    /ljj
    

    Nice idea.  Not sure if anything like that exists now.  Try the Employe
    Purchase Program notes file:
    
    	ATLAST::EMPPURPRO
    
    (Haven't been there lately, but it may still be around).
    
    

    The Employee Purchase Program is now listed as SHALOT::EMPPURPRO.