Conference 7.286::digital

    I would like to see a fresh topic on this. I'm sure that there have
    been other notes on this subject, but I feel that it is worth a
    new look.
    
    My understanding of "redeployment" is closely allied to the DEC
    policy of "not laying people off". 
    
    I have heard a number of discussions on the topic, but I'm sure
    that the issue is dependant on local policies. For example, I have
    heard that Manufacturing has, in the past spent time re-training
    staff to write software (or other things). There was an organisation
    that I heard of which was overstaffed, and a large number were
    relocated into sales positions.
    
    One of the most positive statements that I have heard from a college
    who's funding in his current position is running out said that DEC
    gives you the opportunity to do nothing more than look for a new
    job for about 60 (or so) days, and if at the end of that period
    you haven't found anything, they assign you to a position.
    
    One of the problems is that open positions may or may not have housing
    costs paid if relocation is involved.
    
    Alex 

       Another note on the 'not laying off policy'. Does DEC pay into
    the Mass. Unemployment Insurance pool?
                                                      Denny

    DEC does *not* have a ``No layoff Policy''.  
    It is just a *tradition*.
    
    FMI on reassignment/redeployment see note # 604.73.

    RE: .2
    
    All private sector firms are taxed quarterly by the State Employment
    security office (serving as an arm of the U.S. labor Dept.).  Employer
    tax rates are based on the rate at which firms have layoffs.  Generally
    speaking, if you are laid off, you are covered by U.I.; if you are
    fired for cause, or leave vountarily, you are not eligible.   Each state has slightly
    different rules.
                                          

re:   -.2

Note # 604.73 is too sparse.  I want to hear what people's experiences have 
been, what particular guidelines THEY were given, how it worked out, how LONG 
they were in 'limbo', problems they had, successful and/or horrible outcomes?

One question raised in 604.73, however, pertains to the refusal of offers (2 for
relo, 1 without) aspect of DECWest redeployment.  What is meant by 'offer'?
Did DECWest actually find work for the people - certainly, employees didn't 
interview for jobs they would not accept if offered, did they?  It relates 
back to the question in base note re: employee/manager obligations. Does DEC
management accept a responsibility to help employees find alternatives? or are
they cast adrift to sink or swim with time-limited tolerance and no real support
from management? If there are obligations, what if they are not kept? redress?

Are there basic policies/practicies/understandings of what 'redeployment' means
that are consistent across the company? - this discussion might be the only
way to find out.  I have been told that it isn't even covered by company policy!


signed, 
	Desperately Seeking Clarity

        Redeployment has happened many times at Digital, and probably will
        continue to happen in the future.  It's a side effect of change,
        combined with Digital's tradition of choosing to keep employees
        employed instead of simply laying them off when there are changes
        in the company.  (As was remarked before, this is a *tradition*,
        not a formal policy, but since it's a tradition that K.O. is said
        to strongly support, I don't think it's likely to change as long
        as he is president and supports it.) 
        
        Redeployment has happened at DECwest, and in Marlboro when 36-bit
        manufacturing was phased out, and no doubt many other times as
        well.  It is happening now in Salem (NIO) as the use of the plant
        changes.  Scan through earlier topics in this conference to get
        some background, but feel free to continue the discussion here.
        
        Since you have some free time and want to know about personnel
        policies that are relevant, I'd suggest you spend some time with
        VTX reading the ORANGEBOOK infobase.  The command VTX ORANGEBOOK
        will probably hook you up to it; if not, ask your system manager
        for help.  All the current corporate personnel policies are in
        there.  I can't say off the top of my head whether any of them
        specifically address "redeployment".
        
        Tom
        

    There was an interesting comment that I heard once. It goes along
    the lines of a meeting that KO attended concerning financial restraint
    measures. Someone introduced the idea of "payroll relief", and Ken
    asked those present who was going to be the first to volunteer(sp?) 

Subj:	Computer News from the MISG

HARDWARE PROSPECTUS

	"Transition, Consolidation and Payroll Cutting Time for Big 
	Computer Makers" (BG, 1/15/89, PP:80)

The computer industry in New England is not expected to have a strong year, 
as all of the large manufacturers are expected to post a drop in earnings.  
Prime has already warned Wall St. to expect a loss followed by a gradual 
recovery later in 1989.  Wang's income for its last quarter is predicted to
drop either by 33% or 66%, depending upon the analyst, but a company 
spokesperson denied last week that layoffs of the magnitude of Prime's 
(1,900 employees during 1988) were planned.  Digital will have "absolutely 
no layoffs" during fiscal 1989.  According to Jim Osterhoff, Digital's cfo, 
however, Digital's lack of layoffs "comes from a tradition, not a policy.  
And we're not going to sink the business to adhere to a tradition.  We can 
never say never."  He added that, in the year ahead, "the basic values of 
this company are not going to change.  And in a growth environment, as 
we've have, we've been able to deal with the problem by attrition and 
retraining."  Some companies, including Apollo, Stratus, and Concurrent, are 
predicting strong futures, relative to their recent past or to the computer 
industry, as a whole.

    I have had previous experience (in the early '80s) with being
    REDEPLOYED. It was at the time when we decided to shut down certain
    small product lines in preparation for some consolidations (and
    eventually the move away from product lines).
    
    As I look back, it's easy to say that my experience was positive,
    since I wound up with a decent job (eventually) and have done well
    from a career standpoint ever since then. However, I have to also
    peel off the experiences of the past 6 years or so. When I do that,
    I remember some of the frustrations I felt, and how easy it was
    to get totally bummed out.
                          
    The best thing you can do for yourself is to recognize that getting
    a new job is TOTALLY up to you. Your current management, personnel,
    and other people that may be set up to "help" with the transition
    are not responsible for your future ... you are.  They might help
    (in varying degrees), but in the end, if you wait for them to tell
    you what to do or to tell you what your new job is, you're not going
    to have fun.    
    
    As a practical matter, you have 40 hours a week to try to get a
    new job (or more if you want to work "overtime" at it). Your personnel
    rep has the same amount of time to work with you and the other XXX
    people that are being "redeployed", plus answer their mail, go to
    meetings, take vacations, and perform other tasks. So guess how
    much time they can afford to devote to your problem alone on a weekly
    basis? Probably not too much.
    
    Most of the people that I know that have ever gone through this
    have ended up in better situations as a result. That's the mind
    set that you should have. It's a bummer to get redeployed if you
    let it be a bummer. Look at it as an opportunity to make some very
    positive changes in your career.                                 
                                                                     
    If you know what you want to do within the company, that will    
    also help. For example, if you've always wanted to be in marketing,
    then use this as an opportunity to explore that as a career move.
    If you don't have a clear career objective, then spend some time 
    thinking about what like to do and what you dislike doing. Anything
    you can do to narrow down your interests will help.       
                                                                     
    The JOBS Book and any listings you get from Personnel will generally
    prove to be kind of a waste. In most cases I found that jobs were
    already mentally filled before they hit the JOBS book. (i.e. the
    hiring manager already had a candidate in mind when the req was
    posted, and is going through the formality of posting the requisition
    so that he/she can hire the person they want in the job.) 
                                                        
    Your own personal contacts, and people you meet through your friends
    and other acquaintances will be your most valuable assets in your quest
    for a new assignment. The more people who are aware of the fact
    that you are looking for a job (and what you can do), the more likely
    it is that you'll find a job opportunity worth pursuing.
    
    Good Luck!
    
    /se
     
    
    
                                            

    I was "outplaced" in the summer of 1985, from 36-bit software
    engineering in Marlboro (although I had been working on VMS projects
    for the previous five years, the projects were funded by the 36-bit
    product lines).  At the time it was a truly horrible experience.  I was
    told that my job was gone the day I got home from my father's funeral,
    and it had already been a very stressful summer on several fronts,
    between the stress in my family due to dad's illness, and the stress
    at work as the money got tighter and tighter (and management scrambled
    more and more to save pet projects and favored people, which group I
    was not a member of, from the budgetary axe).
    
    An outplacement office was set up in the jobs resource center in MRO3
    (I don't know if this still exists, though - check with Personnel). 
    They offered courses on things like updating your resume and
    interviewing skills.  I didn't take any of those, though.  They also
    had many groups from throughout the company (not just New England,
    either) send hiring managers to give presentations on what the groups
    did and what openings they had.  These presentations pretty much went
    on every day from 8:30-5 for several weeks.  Between going to those,
    sending out resumes (both inside DEC and outside) and reading responses
    to them, and driving all over the place to go to interviews, I pretty
    much had a full-time "job", although it was a lot tougher and much more
    depressing job than doing "real work" in an engineering group for a
    living!  I eventually got two offers (and convinced several
    desparate-for-people but uninteresting to me groups to NOT make me an
    offer) and accepted the second one.  And I am still here - in a MUCH
    better job than the one I lost, with MUCH MUCH better management and
    much more oppurtunity.  And my blood pressure eventually returned to
    near-normal, too.  It took me about six weeks to find this position.
    
    There was some time-limit on how long you could spend job-hunting, with
    more restrictions phasing in (about reporting to your former manager
    about how you were really looking, and such) if you spent a long time. 
    I don't think this was rigorously enforced since some people I know
    with really speciialized backgrounds took more than six months to find
    other jobs within DEC.  Most people did not end up leaving the company.
    There was also a limit on how many bonafide internal offers you could
    turn down (may have been two), which was why I was being careful to not
    get offers from groups I was not going to be interested in joining no
    matter how much they needed engineers.
    
    It was a pretty nasty experience, definitely part of the "school of
    hard knocks".  But it was incomparably better than when Burroughs
    (Unisys, these days) laid me off many years ago (two jobs before I came
    to DEC).  Then, after working all weekend to bring up a new version of
    the operating system until about 3 AM Monday morning, I rolled in about
    11 AM monday to find a "pink slip" on my chair.  I had one hour to
    clean out my desk and vanish!  And they even managed to screw up the
    paperwork so it was a couple of months before I started collecting
    unemployment compensation, which was a real serious problem since I was
    a recent college graduate at the time and still paying off loans and
    things and had virtually no money (not that the unemployment money even
    covered the rent on my not-in-the-least-bit-luxurious apartment, let
    alone food).  It took me three months to find a job that time (1975,
    during a big recession in this area - the lines at the unemployment
    office stretched down the stairs and out on to the sidewalk - and you
    had to go there in person to get your check, on foot in my case since I
    did not have a car), and when I did it was a six-month contract job
    that paid less than Burroughs had been paying me, so I had to continue
    to job-hunt during the whole contract, and landed my first job here at
    DEC before the contract expired.  I've been here ever since!  So, just
    remember, things are MUCH WORSE elsewhere!  At least here, your
    paycheck and benefits continue while you look for another position (oh,
    Burroughs gave me ONE WEEK severance pay - big deal! - plus a few days
    for accumulated vacation time, and that was all).  So you won't be
    bankrupted by a serious injury or illness.
    
    Good luck!  As a previous responder already noted, nearly all of the
    people who were "outplaced" when I was eventually found much better
    positions within the company and are still here today, somewhere.
    
    /Charlotte

    Just a word of advice to people who are looking to change jobs
    internally, whether because "redeployable" or not...when talking to
    hiring managers in other organizations, knowing your job title or job
    code (printed on your pay stub) is not enough.  You have to be able to
    translate that to a job LEVEL so that the incoming manager can
    translate that to an equivalent position in her/his organization.  If
    you do not know your current job level, speak with your manager or
    personnel consultant.  They can translate your job code to a level.
    
    Good luck,
    Marge
    
    

    It amazes me how names change through the years. We've evolved from
    calling people "EXCESS" then "AVAILABLE", working in "STRIDe",
    and now the term "REDEPLOYABLE".
    
    As a former employee of Franklin Manufacturing, I fell into one
    of the above catagories. At the time, STRIDe was set up to "assist"
    in the transition. I agree with an earlier note, that you do need
    to keep a positive attitude and start your networking as soon as
    you get an inkling that you may need to make a move. It (changing
    jobs because you have to) has a good amount of uncertainty to it,
    but the more you can can ACCEPT the situation and not get discouraged,
    the easier it should be on you.
    
    I was fortunate that I was able (and willing to) transfer to BTO
    when the VAX/VENUS family left FXO/MRO. STRIDe was very helpful
    in making the move. My understanding is that STRIDe has been
    discontinued. Your own personal situation (distance to other 
    DEC sites, family or other ties to the community) as well as
    the availability of other jobs will certainly have an impact on
    your success in getting another job within DEC. 
    
    A couple of suggestions to keep in mind:
    
    * Include your family in discusssions as early as possible.
    
    * Keep a positive attitude.
    
    * Get your resume updated (and on the system).
    
    * NETWORK
    
    * Go for resume writing and interview skills workshops if needed.
    
    * If relocation is an option, write/call the local chamber of commerce.
    
    * Talk to other people who have relocated to that site.
    
    * DON'T sit back and wait for someone to offer you the "perfect"
      job. Keep your options open.
    
    * Accept the fact that your next job may not be the promotion  
      you were ready or hoping for. You need to decide whether a
      lateral (or down grade) is better than no job!
    
    Having your job go away is no day at the beach! The company has
    changed and learned with the way it handled product lines, FA&T,
    etc., and the financial situation within the company today is
    a lot different than it was 3 to 5 years ago. 
    
    My .02 worth.
    
    Kevin Greene
    

        Of course, a more pessimistic person might look at the last
        sentence in that excerpt and conclude that anyone who was still
        sitting on his or her thumbs in July might be laid off.
        
        Tom

    Re: .13
        
    I too read that sentence two or three times when I got that issue.
    My first reaction was "Now wait a minute!".  Then, as I looked at
    it a fourth time, I read the word "sink".
    
    I think all he was trying to say was that Digital won't *KILL* itself
    off by keeping people.  This is an understandable position.  We
    are talking about the company being in serious trouble.
    
    It would have been nice if he had said something like "We aren't
    going to lay off people unless it is absolutely *ESSENTIAL* for
    the long range survival of the company."
    
    Doug

    I think it's a little early to start updating resume's, but I've
    been wrong before.  I had a friend at Prime that went out with their
    big layoff a couple years ago, -- and collected severance pay for
    about 9 months afterward.  Things could indeed be worse.
    
    Re: .10
    
    Charlotte -- I had no idea you had such a tough time of it back
    in '85 (and prior).  Glad to hear you landed safely.  I also bugged
    out of 36 bits back then -- but I was ready to go anway, so it helped
    rather than interfered with my plans.
    
    tim
    

    OK, here's more comments from the trenches.  My last three positions
    have ended in redeployment.  Each group had different policies for
    looking and different timeframes for finding positions.  One group's
    theory was:  Go look; when you find what you want, say goodbye.  The
    next group had a different policy.  90 days to find a job, then you
    could be "assigned to a pool" to go work other places.  The 90 days
    passed, and those that were left had been in the middle of a hiring
    freeze, so we were given 90 more days; same results; corporate-wide
    hiring freeze; 90 more days. . . .   Things eventually loosened up and
    the folks that were left all got jobs within about a two-week period. 
    We HAD been looking, and reporting all activity to the group manager
    every week, so we were given lee-way in the time.  Another group
    started out with no time-frames, but eventually put a 90 day limit on
    the folks that were left.  I think everyone left before the 90 days, so
    I'm not sure what they would have done if some folks were still
    looking.  The resources provided by each group were different; from no
    help at all to classes on interviewing and resume writing. 
    
    However, never was there anyone there to FIND US A JOB.  By this I mean
    that each time it was up to the individual to identify openings and go
    after the interview if they were interested.  Personnel was involved,
    and did help several folks by identifying hiring managers or by calling
    to check on status (only to hear, oh, yeah, we're going to make an
    offer to (someone) on this req.)  The issue is, really, to follow the
    guidelines and regulations set forth by your group, and to make use of
    your network and of all the resources available to you, such as JOBs on
    VTX, taking classes, getting help with your resume if you need it, etc. 
    If you don't get a job that you really want, talk to the manager to
    find out why. This can help you in the next interview.  Maybe it's lack
    of experience in a particular area (public speaking, or writing, for
    example) or maybe the req. was put on hold (I've heard that one so many
    times!); but it gives you some basis to go on.
    
    Keep a good attitude (can be tough, I know), be positive, figure out
    what you want to do, and go for it!! 

    First of all, let me absolutely assure everyone that there is no
    such thing as "you've got 90-days to find a job, or we let you go."
    Any manager that every tries to tell you that, you tell him he is
    full of it (nicely).  I say this with 14 years of management/hiring/
    firing experience with Digital.  
    
    My experience was with the Target Sales Force (be still my stomache)
    which was terminated precipitously abandoning about 100 good people.
    Most of higher level management bailed out quickly, and used the
    good old boy network to find equivalent or better jobs.  It wasn't
    too many weeks when we were essentially without any management support
    or assistance.  As an act of desperation, Target Sales strongly
    pushed on us all to join Stride.  That was the second big mistake!!
    I will admit that Stride tried, but really had no skills except
    in placing manufacturing people.  Some of us were on the "boat"
    more than a year, and a few still have never found long-term employ-
    ment after over two years..
    
    The mental pressures were extreme, and to a very large extent, none
    of us got any help with anything.  In particular the Recruiting
    arm of Personnel (AKA as Job Prevention, Inc.) was not only useless,
    but actually had a negative effect.
    
    Digital's "policy" of telling people to "go find a job", which on
    the surface appears enlightened is to a large extent a cruel hoax.
    What is badly needed is a centralized reassignment function which
    force-fits people into open slots.  I must have interviewed for
    50 jobs that I knew I could do, but just couldn't get the chance.
                              
    What is badly needed is a hard policy (is this possible in Digital)
    that all managers, to the highest level, who create these kind
    of situations, should be absolutely required to stay in place until
    every impacted employee has a new job.
    
    I also found out one final thing which I was surprised at.  Being
    a "boat person" has exactly the same impact on you as being unemployed.
    I think management should realize that.  The idea that "what are
    you complaining about -- you're still getting paid" is workable
    is total garbage.  Believe me, the impact is the same, perhaps even
    worse, because of the extreme uncertainty.  At least if you are
    laid off, you know where you stand.
    
    One more -- the job-finding process at Digital could be roughly
    cut in half, if personnel recruitors could be left out of the loop.

    Re: .-1
    
    Interesting comments.  I have heard others more informed and
    experienced than myself argue convincingly that a layoff is actually
    more humane, when managed properly, than creating a sub-class of
    internal 'boat people', as you describe.  One could argue that DEC's
    non-policy, informal "tradition" of no layoffs is actually a thinly
    veiled excuse for management to avoid having to handle a distasteful
    job, i.e. a layoff.  In fact, considering that many such
    humane approaches to layoffs include real costs in the form of
    outplacement services and severance pay, a layoff is not a cheaper
    option.  In the 'no layoff' scenario, most find productive positions
    in a fairly brief time, while only a few expend beyond what it might
    have cost to outplace them!  Besides, these few usually leave anyway.
    
    In light of this perspective, the 'no layoff' tradition is far from
    humane, but it sounds good for P.R. purposes.  It's actually quite
    Darwinian, hardly 'enlightened', and perhaps just a little bit
    hypocritical.

    tim
    

    I hope that the people expressing opinions like "Being laid off would
    be better..." have had both experiences, and are sharing wisdom, rather
    than voicing hollow, unfounded opinion.
    
    A friend of mine that was laid off once, explained that since then his
    philosophy is to keep several months of salary in the bank at all times
    to hedge against such a thing (even though he works for DEC now).
    
    I don't have insulation like that and to be laid off (God Forbid) would
    be devestating financially, and I think morally.  
    
    In the past when I have changed jobs, I left the old job on a Friday
    and started the new job on a Monday, and hardly felt a moments
    inconvenience.  I basically did my job hunting and interviewing on the
    time of the company I was leaving.  It would have made a VERY big
    difference in my plans, my willingness to leave, and the type of job I
    would be willing to accept if my income stopped abruptly and the clock
    started ticking to zero on my bank account, when I decided to change
    jobs.
    
    I don't deny that being between positions, even with income, is
    demoralizing.  But I find the argument that having financial hardship
    added to the dilemma would somehow make it better???????
    
    I know this is only a Notesfile, and no one of consequence reads them,
    and policy doesn't get made because of them.  But for some reason, I
    get the heebie-jeebies when I read something like -.1 that *sounds*
    totally irresponsible, because I wonder if, just maybe, some policy
    maker MIGHT read this and take it to heart.
    
    Flame at me.  I've completely sidestepped several points. Its all just
    talk.  It doesn't mean a thing.  I shouldn't take it so seriously.  
    
    But PLEASE, *THINK* about what you say here.
    
    Jim (just being scared of shadows)
    

    I also have a great deal of difficulty understanding how being laid off
    without a salary could possibly be better than having a salary while
    job hunting is in progress.
    
    I'm willing to personally accept the Digital salary from anybody who
    believes that and is in that position. (All, of course, to improve
    their position, and not for my own gain.) I'll even pay the taxes on
    it. Any volunteers? 

    I thought the noter mentioned something about the severance pay
    or a blurb about (large) lump sum to go along with the lay off.
    
    - Vikas

    It is not my intention to portray a layoff as a pleasant experience.
    In fact, I intentionally qualified it by using the (perhaps vague)
    word 'humane'.  I am not naive enough to believe that any layoff
    is pleasant; I had the extreme displeasure of watching most of the
    RCA computer division dissolve, effecting my own family and most
    of our friends.  Although it was an emotional decision that triggered
    the RCA closing, the layoffs themselves (from 1971 to 1976) were
    reasonably well managed.  People knew it was coming well in advance,
    outplacement services (resume and job hunting skills) were provided
    and a severance pay schedule was put in place, based on years of
    service.
    
    To turn the coin over, given advance warning (usually a couple months
    or more) why would anybody wait until they were unemployed to start
    looking for work?  In the no-layoff scenario, how can one justify
    taking a weekly salary for doing nothing?  Is that even ethical,
    or does ethics not matter when the alternative is unemployment?
    
    In other words, I don't necessarily advocate a change in this
    'tradition' of no layoffs -- it just strikes me that those who percieve
    it as philanthropic might be just a touch naive.  It's not that
    simple -- but it's an interesting topic...
    
    tim
    
    P.S.  How philanthropic is it to move an entire facility 50+ miles
    away, but not relocate the employees?

>        ...In the no-layoff scenario, how can one justify
>    taking a weekly salary for doing nothing?  

Whew! Nothing at all?

Not even calling people, searching VTX & jobs notebook, preparing and
sending resumes?  No attempts to determine which locations & departments 
might be a good fit?

Sounds to me as though a "jobless DECcie" has a job.  That job is to
find a new way to contribute to the corporation.  It is not easy (as
all seem to agree) and it takes time, dedication, and effort.  

Personally, I'd want to be paid for those things.

K.

    Re the previous 5 or so......I have been in both situations, only
    when I was "really" laid off, I found out I was not even eligible
    for unemployment insurance.  It seems the college I taught at couldn't
    afford the payments, and the State (Iowa) let them get away with
    it.
    
    I still think the trauma and lack of self-worth was essentially
    the same.  The only thing missing was the near-terror of watching
    my money supply deplete each day with a wife and five kids and a
    full complement of bills.
    
    I still think DEC's so-called no-layoff policy provides far too
    many openings for poor, sloppy, uncaring decisions.  Management
    gets off far too easily.  Also there have been far too many of the
    50-mile group moves, often with highly personal agendas imbedded
    for some of the managers involved (i.e., getting closer to......)
                                       
    Half of me still thinks that a real lay-off, with a decent severance
    payment program, would be preferable and would require more responsi-
    ble and well thought out management processes.
           

    
>    P.S.  How philanthropic is it to move an entire facility 50+ miles
>    away, but not relocate the employees?

  Does this happen often in DEC? 

	Corporate policy states conditions under which reloc is available for 
a "group" move.  It has to do with how far your commute increases, how far is 
the new facility from your current home, and how close you move to the new 
facility.  I don't think there is an option here, it's reloc for everyone.

	The Atlanta area employees are about to go through this in the summer.

    At DECwest in August, we experienced a "group move" of 3,000 miles.
    
    Yes, we were offerd a (generous) relocation package.
    
    Yes, there was hints of severence pay, "cash-outs", and "take your time".
    
    What we got was 90 days notice, no severence at all, and a threat
    of "forced voluntary resignation", so DEC didn't have to deal with a
    nasty increase in unemployment insurance.
    
    I'm still with DEC, and still love working here (which isn't suggested
    by the above statements). Many of my coworkers left.
    
    If a "redeployment" happens to you, just remember that you're on your
    own, and don't count on ANYTHING from ma DEC.