Conference 7.286::digital

< Note 660.0 by VIDEO::JOYP >
                            -< good MBA programs? >-

    Does anyone know what schools have good part time MBA
    programs in the Boston area?  What should a person look
    for to judge the quality of an MBA program?
    
    
I'm not an expert on the Boston area, but there are a few things to look for
within an MBA program:

       * Which functional direction of business am I most interested in?
         --> The program you select should compliment your personal ambitions.
             (eg. do you want to specialize in finance, then find a school
              which specializes in finance. If you like marketing, then go to
              a school which specializes in marketing. etc.).

       * What is the student selection process? 
         --> If any Tom, Dick and Harry can attend, then you can probably
             assume the school is not the best.

       * How much will the tutition be? Can I afford it?

       * How big are the classes?

       * What are the classes like. Does the school believe in the more
         theoretical approach (scientific approach) or do they emphasize
         case studies.  

         The graduate school I attended emphasized the case study approach
         and I personally think it was an excellent way to get us to think
         in "real" business terms. Some of my friends attended the more
         traditional schools and were extremely impressed on the think models
         that it provided with them.  It is very much up to your own preference.

       * How well known is the school or program. Make a sample test and
         ask 10 people in management levels whether they know the course.
         If more than 6 people indicate they do not know it, you might
         be willing to reconsider the school. While the degree is important,
         it is equally important what type of school or prgram you attended.



Hope that helps.

Victor

To add to 660.1:

The absolute minimum requirement should be that the school is
accredited. I can't remember the name of the body that does the
accredation, but it can't be too hard to find. I took my MBA 7
years ago and I remember that I bought a book listing all the
accredited school accross the nation. Within the past 10 years
there has been a myriad of unaccredited schools that have decided 
to offer MBA programs as means to generate more cash and prop up
flagging enrollments. This has devalued the degree somewhat and
makes it doubly important to go to a good, accredited school.

Good luck.

Geoff Rummel

Copenhagen, Denmark
COPCLU::GEOFFREY

    
    There are a few details you will have to consider:
    
    1. There are 8 schools in Boston area which have accredited MBA
    programs (accredition is given by American Associate Collegiate
    Schools of Business AACSB based on the quality of the graduate programs
    offered by the schools.)
    They are Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan School of Mgmt, Boston
    University, Boston College, Babson College, Notheastern, ULowell,
    and Clark University Worcester.
    
    2. Depending upon where you work, the time to commute, whether the
    tuition is paid by DEC or you, the number of courses you can get
    waiver so that you can graduate earlier you can decide where you
    want to go.
    
    3. Out of all the schools I have mentioned, ULowell is the only
    State-Govt sponsered school which offers quality education with
    less expensive tuition.
    
    4. Harvard, and MIT don't offer part-time MBA.
    
    5. If you work on 495 belt, I recommend you to consider ULowell
    from personal experience. I have been attending the school since
    Jan 1988. I like the school and the program very much.
    
    
    Any other information, give me a call or send me a mail...
    
    Kandha
    

    RE:  .3
    
    I believe Bentley has AACSB accreditation.  Is this true?
    
    How important is AACSB?
    

    I once went to an open  house  we organized for Colleges in the area,
    it was at our Andover facility, and gave me the chance to talk in the
    same room with many institutions.
    
    Since I didn't want to commute long distances, I was looking for part
    time MBA programs no further than 30 minutes from Stow.  I found two:
    
    Boston University (617-353-2673) at its campus in Tyngsboro
    Clark University at the Sheraton in Boxboro
    
    For personal reasons I haven't  been able to start any program, but I
    was going to chose Clark's.
    
    OD/

    re .4 
    
    Bentley has been working for some time on getting the AACSB stamp
    (they were pursuing it whilst I was an undergraduate in 1983) but
    I think they've yet to get it ...
    
    

    re: 6
    
    I heard from someone at the Graduate School at Bentley that they are
    in the final process of AACSB accreditation.  It takes 5-6 years
    to get.  Until about 1980, Bentley (and Babson) did not choose
    to pursue AACSB because it was not considered important.  However
    since now most good business schools have AACSB, Bentley decided
    they should get it also.  Bentley is expected to receive AACSB in
    this April.
                              
    Apparently, AACSB became the only official "stamp of approval"
    about ten years ago.
    
    
    

    I graduated from the BU MBA program (part-time) several years ago.
    The instructors were good, (make sure the satellite class-rooms
    are filled by the regular faculty), but I got the feeling it was
    their "cash-cow". Put the minimum in but charge the maximum. I was
    comparing notes with a friend of my wife's, she's attending Babson,
    and her course structure sounded much better than BU's for the general
    MBA program. As was stated previously, if you are considering a
    specialization, you need to ask a lot of questions, especially of
    former grads.
    If you want more info, send me mail
    
    Peter Sawyer
    

    I would advise you look closely at two criteria:
    
    1.  Faculty -- The program is only as good as the faculty.  Get
        a copy of the faculty list/description.  How many full-time
        faculty?  What institutions do they come from?  Which
        departments are strong/weak?
    
    2.  Entrance standards -- High caliber students stimulate the
        faculty, and one another.  Find out what the average GMAT score
        for the previous incoming class was.  This information is available
        from the admissions offices.
                                                       
    Sheepskin vs. Education:  What's your goal?
    
    If you want a "quick degree", take one of those 18-month cram programs.
    
    If you want a good business education, go for the best environment.

    Business Week this week has a profile of MBA programs and some general
    advice about obtaining an MBA.  My alma mater and where I teach now,
    New York University placed quite low in the ratings.

    re: .9
    
    What average GMAT score for the entering class is considered
    desirable?

    Average GMAT scores differ from school to school, as I am sure you
    are aware of.  Strive for as high a score as possible and then select
    MBA programs to consider.
    
    The Business Week article on MBA programs (November 28th issue)
    devotes a lot of time with respect to faculty.  What becomes apparent
    is that the students from top MBA programs have found teaching quality
    to suffer when faculty spend too much time on research.  The article
    also discusses other issues that affected rankings.  What you can
    get from this article is a sense of what's important in an MBA program.
    
    My only advice is to go to the "best" program that you can get into.
    I am currently attending Northwestern University (yes, I live in
    Chicago) - Kellogg Graduate School of Management.  If I desired,
    I could have attended DePaul or Loyola, which are both closer to
    where I live and a lot less expensive.  What makes them less superior?
    Faculty.  Student caliber.  Innovativeness.  Challenge.  Opportunity.
    All these items are important to me; they may not be important to
    you.  Unfortunately, an MBA is only as good as the school from which
    it is received, UNLESS the person is striving for that degree
    COMPLETELY for self-fulfillment.
    
    Go for the best because the program will, in turn, go for the best
    within yourself.
    
    
    

.12>          Unfortunately, an MBA is only as good as the school from which
.12>    it is received, UNLESS the person is striving for that degree
.12>    COMPLETELY for self-fulfillment.
        
        This is an interesting and probably erroneous belief.  In fact, it
        turns out that although just *where* you got your MBA may matter a
        lot in terms of getting your *first* job after you've earned it,
        especially if you've gone directly from a liberal arts college
        into business school, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference
        after that.  Yes, try to avoid a school that has a reputation as a
        "diploma mill", but don't rule out a convenient program just
        because some other program is more "glamorous". 
        
        There certainly *is* a lot of competition among certain classes of
        business to hire the graduates of certain schools, so this could
        be a factor in which program you should attend, if you're looking
        for a job in one of the businesses that just *loves* a particular
        school.  When companies are hiring people who *aren't* fresh out
        of school, they're usually much more concerned with experience. 
        
        In some jobs, the MBA is a necessary prerequisite for getting your
        toe in the door, but in most jobs, having an MBA from a particular
        program is *not* a guarantee of success. 
        
        Tom 

I agree with the last comment. The school's name is really important
for the entrance into the business world. What YOU learn and can apply
is the most important feature of a MBA-programm.

The grad school I attended (3 year program) was based on
CASE studies and put lots of pressure on the students (simulating the
business environement). WE had to work our butts off to get through
the program. As with any school alot of what was taught was THEORETICAL
despite our case studies.

The real benefit of a B-school is to prepare you for the FUN/FROLIC
and the backbiting in the business world. A good B-school will train you
to perform in the real world.

But YOUR PERSONAL SUCCESS is dependent on YOURSELF. Many people who are
in todays senior management positions got there without ever going to
a business school. Some never even made it passed elementary school. Steven
Jobs, for example dropped out of college. Einstein was thrown out of the
University for day-dreaming.

In short, your success depends very much on your own efforts and determination.

Grad school is one way of learning the ropes. It is not the only one.

Victor

    
    The value of a business school after the first job can be
    established by:
    
        -- how much the placement office can offer to graduates
           in terms of resources
    
        -- how much the school helps graduates stay in touch or
           get in touch with each other 
    
        -- whether the school's reputation helps you get interviews
           you might not get otherwise
    
    In looking for a job inside or outside DIGITAL, anything that provides
    you with a name in an unfamiliar organization, and a "hook" to get
    that person's interest or attention, is useful. Business school, aside
    from the skills and degree, can help provide this, but it's not the
    only way.
    
          John                                                
    

    
    ONE SUGGESTION
    
    Babson College in Wellesley has a good MBA program for part-time
    students.
    
    Few of the things to look for....
    
    A practical approach to business.
    Not just lectures from profs, but a lot of interaction encouraged.
    Open attitude to outside real world.
    Not just bookish knowledge

    re: .11
    
    GMAT scores are a reasonable measurement of apptitude for performance
    in an MBA program.  The average GMAT score for the most recent entering
    class can be used for the *relative* comparison of universities
    in their ability to successfully recruit the best students.  The
    better the caliber of students, the greater the motivation and
    performance of the faculty.
    

    
    re: .11 and -.1
    
    GMAT is not the only measurement for performance in any MBA program.
    Your undergraduate grades, work exp., extracurricular activitites,
    etc plays a role in it.
    
    BTW, I graduated from a respectable MBA program from a midwestern 
    (Big 10) school and my GMAT score is too low to print (<400).
    
    

    I'd personally recommend Clark U.   I've been going there for a
    number of years for my undergraduate degree (only 6 courses to go!).
    I've always been extremely impressed with the quality of the
    education I'm getting there; the professors and atmosphere are
    phenomenal.  I can't imagine going anywhere else.
    
    

    A P.S. to my last note:
    
    Clark is *not* for people who like to meander through their education.
    It's a tough school.  In discussing class and homework content with
    people in other schools, I can readily say that Clark's requirements
    are far beyond the norm.
    
    For example:  In an Accounting class I recently took, we were required
    to go through 12 chapters, and know those chapters intimately. 
    My sister-in-law (who was attending another school, but the same
    Basic Accounting class, and using the same book) had only seven chapters
    required.  The unusual thing about this was my class was a night
    class and hers was day school.  I've always heard that night school
    requirements were slightly less than day school (considering most
    people work full-time), but I've seen no evidence of leniency for
    the night students at Clark.
  

    RE:  .20
    
    Out of curiosity, where was your sister in law taking her accounting
    course?
    

    Re: .21
    
    Sorry for the lateness of this reply -- I'm *trying* to get caught-up
    in this conference, but am failing miserably!
    
    Anyway, my sister-in-law was in a course at Quinsigamond Community
    College in Worcester.  I took one course there, and didn't find
    it very challenging.  It was after Quinsig that I tried Clark --
    now I'm hooked!  I imagine Quinsig is a good school, but it doesn't
    provide me with what I want.
    
    

    	Re .4,.6,.7

    	In the FWIW department, Bentley did receive its AACSB
    accreditation this week.

    	Amy