Conference 7.286::digital

In the U.S., there is officially no compensatory time -- you can read policy
6.05 in the ORANGEBOOK VTX database.

On the other hand, in most jobs the hours are flexible.  If you work overtime
(and aren't paid for overtime because of your job code) you can probably take
compensatory time off, with your manager's permission.  If your manager won't
let you, then you should probably stop working overtime.

In other countries rules on this will vary with local labor laws.

/john

    I've never had trouble arranging compensatory time with my manger when
    there were large amounts of overtime. It is a very good idea to discuss
    it up front rather than wait until the crunch is over!
    
    There was this project that went on for months of 70 and 80 hour weeks.
    I even had a time-card bounce one week because the time field has only
    2 columns and I worked over a 100 hours.
    
    But I got the job done, and I simple took 3 weeks off, and not vacation
    time. DEC came way out ahead on that one.
    
    Then there was the engineer, not me, who did something similar and was
    told at the last minute he couldn't leave because some other department
    had dropped the ball. His answer was a DEC classic:
    
    "I'm leaving on Friday. Please tell me whether it's comp time,
    vacation, or terminal leave." 
    
    When he got back, he found it was comp time. 

    Sometimes it can be frustrating; some of us work on projects *with*
    people whose managements have a more open attitude about these things
    than our own!  As cross-functional teams, we're teams when it comes to
    getting the job done, but not always in how it affects our lives! 
    
    Nina

    For those individuals who receive overtime pay, a manager can not
    give compensatory time off in lieu of overtime pay, as that's the
    law, you work it you better be paid it, HOWEVER, in addition to
    the overtime pay, and manager CAN let you have a day off with pay.
    
    Carla
    

    Are you sure your manager can't give you time off in leiu of
    overtime pay ??  Overtime has been tough to get approved in my
    building, and everyone working late hours/weekends is taking
    days off to make it up. Some managers are not even willing
    to give you time1/2 off to make up for the hours worked. Let's
    face it, you can only push your boss so hard before it becomes
    a CLM (career limiting move).
    
    

    Here is my understanding of Massachusetts law. It should be checked
    with somebody who REALLY knows for sure before anyhting is said or
    done.
    
    Assume a person is an a wage class for whcih he is paid for his
    overtime. Then, by law, he MUST be paid for the overtime or the
    corporation/manager/somebody is violating the law. Mutual aggreements,
    tacit or explicit, do not change the law or modify its requirements.
    
    A tacit understanding would be one in which the manager says, "We must
    get this project out on time, so *please* stay late this week." You
    choose to stay late, but you don't put the overtime on your job ticket
    because you have also been told that no overtime will be approved. Your
    manager knows that no overtime will be approved, and he also knows you
    are staying late without pay. THAT is illegal.
    
    Again, check with somebody who know for absolute certain what the law
    is. DEC has a law library in the Powder Mill Road facility in Maynard,
    and many libraries also have legal collections. You can look it up
    yourself.
    
    If you do confirm that the law requirs you be paid for overtime, then
    you still have a problem. The manager will not be happy at all that he
    has been caught in a bind between: the law, no overtime funds, and your
    calling the conflict to his explicit attention. Since he can't do
    anything about the law or the funds, guess who will be pushed on?
    
    I think personnel may have to get involved with this one.
    
    But yet again, get the legal facts first!

    We are covered both by flsa and walsh-healy regarding overtime pay.
    
    Tom is right about checking per State laws... just curious, if
    State Law differs from Federal Law, IS federal law, the LAW?
    
    You can also, to check policy go into VTX and look under Personnel
    Policies and Procedures section Compensation policy # 3.09, especially
    the last paragraph.
    
    

    .7
    Theoretically state law cannot be LESS restrictive than Fed law.
     But then again that's why we have the courts system.
    
    Whatever, the more conservative (as in more restrictive) statute
    always applies.
    
    I assume that we are talking in this case about an "exempt" wage
    class.  The only one at Digital which does NOT have specifically
    defined "overtime" compensation rules.
    
    Wage class 4 employees are expected to get the job done, and the
    Job is expected to take about 40 hours/week.  Although there are
    specific "facility hours" start and stop times for each facility,
    we don't usually monitor wage class 4 employees by them.
    
    If an exception (?) arrises where a wage class 4 employee needs
    to spend more than 40 hours/week to get the job done - then that
    is what is expected of their employement.  Theoretically compensation
    does not apply.
    
    In practice, since we DON'T track start/stop times, we can "ignore"
    the facility hours for wage class 4 employees - if we choose to.
    
    There are MANY examples of managers like myself choosing to have
    our employees "work at home" etc.
    
    Lets NOT get some foolish and cumbersome "rules" in the way
    of a working - albeit informal - solution to the problem of WAGE CLASS
    4 compensation time (because in reality THERE IS NO COMPENSATION
    FOR OVERTIME HOURS FOR WAGE CLASS 4 EMPLOYEES)
    
    Thanks,
    Tim
                                   

    Yes, it may be Federal law instead of state law. But it's there
    someplace.
    
    I'm wage class 4. I don't get paid overtime, but then I don't get
    docked for undertime either. I'm supposed to be sufficiently
    responsible and get the job done. 

    You are right about wage class 4's not receiving overtime.  We,
    who are wage class 4 or Exempt, are exempt from overtime.  I'm
    not trying to be funny, but under federal law the non-exempt 
    are those who fall under the laws governing O.T.  
    
    Carla
    

        Its called "give and take" for WC#4 employees, although state law
    sees it differently. My father works for the Illinois Labor Relations
    Dept. and he says that to be exempt you must work >50% of the time
    in the office (opposed to field) or manage >2 people. Being a Field
    support engineer then I did not qualify to become exempt, didn't
    spend >50% time on my butt, or manage >2 people. I worked lots of
    all niters and according to my pop could have saved records and
    gotten back overtime pay on an individual basis. Overall average
    of all t7/8/9s might not have worked 50% or more out of office,
    but its an individual law not for group averages. Labor laws are
    strange from state to state, and they love to listen. Imagine if
    they audited the fields timecards and saw people logging and
    compensated for 100+ hour workweeks violating Illinois maximum for
    non-exempt employees 16hrs. 
    	Comp_time is not something to accumulate and post but an
    agreement can usually be reached between worker and boss. Unless 
    the boss is a workaholic and expects the same from you. Like Tom
    said the job sometimes demands a wide bandwidth and you deserve
    a break also.  It's a give and take world, by design.

ALong the same vein, *regardless of wage class*, if you work a second or
third shift for more than 1 week you are entitled to a shift-differential
premium, 10% of base pay for 2nd shift and 20% of base pay for third shift.

Somewhere WAY back in this conference from a couple years ago I was in that
situation - 8 weeks at a customer plant site on 2nd shift coding a project.
Ultimately, our DM authorized 4 or 5 of us on the team to get 8 * 10%, or
80% of a week's pay (2 years later!!).

The system DOES work!
                                 
This is all odcumented in your benefits handbook. 

Regards,

	Al

    Where does travel time come into all this?  At one time, when I
    was on a residency, I was traveling 2 hours/day and working 8 hours
    a day, for about 18 months.  
    
    Since I live about 7 minutes from my home DEC office, I would think
    that some of the 3 or so working months worth of travel might be
    a topic of consideration for compensation.
    
    Does anyone out there have any experience with regard to this subject?
    
    Doug

Re .12:

>ALong the same vein, *regardless of wage class*, if you work a second or
>third shift for more than 1 week you are entitled to a shift-differential
>premium, 10% of base pay for 2nd shift and 20% of base pay for third shift.
>...
>This is all odcumented in your benefits handbook. 

The edition of Personnel Policy 3.11 (Compensation Policies/Shift Premium) dated
10-Aug-87 in an online VTX database states that the 3rd shift and rotating
timeframes are entitled to a 15% shift premium.  Where did you see that 3rd
shift was worth 20% more?
				/AHM/THX

Sorry 'bout that - I was going from (faulty) memory.  But at least I was
correct in that there *is* a shift premium paid to *all* wage classes.

Al

    Re: 643.13
    
    I have been on a few residencies where the travel time to the site
    was just great enough that I decided to stay in a hotel for most
    of the week.  My manager was fairly adamant about me billing 40 
    hours on top of the 5-8 hours of commute time. 
    
    Well, I was gung ho for the first residency....but after I saw that
    the extra effort did not payoff for myself and the customer really
    did not care if I did not bill a full 40 hour week.....I began to
    push back on my manager and when on the road, I now hardly ever
    bill a full 40 hours to the customer.
    
    Pat.
   

    I was just asked by my manager to go on another residency, which
    would mean about 3.5 hours round trip per day, 5 days a week.
    
    Included with the request was the need for billing at least 35 hours
    a week (a minimum for specialists in our unit).  Of course the 35 hours
    must be on site...
    
    I have to admit that 2 hours of that time is on a ferry...guess
    I will take up reading newspapers and tech manuals during that time.
    
    This is going to be *REAL FUN*.
                                                                        

When you're Wage class 4 the company ownes you 24 hr per day 7 days a week

                                  :')

    RE: .19
    
    1.  I am Wage Class 4.
    2.  Digital (nor anyone else) does not OWN me, not even 1 minute
        of the day.
    3.  Digital pays me a salary to perform a reasonable task in a 
        reasonable amount of time.
    4.  If Digital feels my performance is inadequate, Digital has the
         right and responsibility to take corrective action.
    5.  If I feel Digital is requesting too much from me, then I have
        the right and responsibility to take corrective action.
                         
    Just one man's thoughts on Wage Class 4 status.
    
    Claude A. Bench

    Re: .20
    
    I agree completely.

re :.20

  Bravo!   Couldn't have said it better, myself!

            Bob