Conference 7.286::digital

    
    Well, 1) not everyone has electronic mail 
    	  2) some people who do have it have lousy access to it
    	  3) our systems would be on their knees - if they could get
    that high
    	  4) there is no assurance that anything that comes in bulk
    mail to a local office gets distributed in a way the *everyone*
    gets it.
    
    So, I for one vote for the possibly more expensive but definitely
    more reliable US Mail system.
    
    

    Also, there are many employees who are either:
    
     - retired
     - on LOA (short-term, long-term, educational, etc)
     - on residency at a customer location
    
    etc, who can't receive inter-departmental or electronic mail in
    a timely fashion.  I believe that US Mail is the most cost effective
    way to be reasonably assured that the mail is delivered.  (no remarks
    about USPS legends, please).

    On a related subject, one thing that I find somewhat amusing are
    the letters that I receive AT WORK from organizations within Digital
    that are in the same physical building that I am that are sent via
    U.S. Mail...

    Insight, The Consultant, DECsell, and DECstuff could all go away
    as fare as I'm concerned.. another 'fun DEC fact' is that we're
    one of the biggest publishers in the world !
    
    How much does that junk cost, and how come the field SWS people
    have to give up their Plan A cars to pay for it ?
    
    karl

    I agree U.S. mail is certainly the most reliable way to be sure
    we get such things as notifications of benefit changes, etc.  But
    P&P specifically addresses sending things to employees' homes instead
    of the office, and that policy is broken all the time.  The first
    year Personnel sent out their customer satisfaction survey, they
    sent them to managers' homes.  I returned mine with a comment that
    if they *ever* sent another one to my home I would immediately throw
    it away.  Don't know if I had anything to do with it, but the next
    year they sent them to the office.
    
    							Pat

    
    
    Using expensive solutions because of small problems just doesn't
    cut it!  If there are folks who can't get lower cost internal
    mailings (whatever the reason) use the address database to so identify
    them and isolate the use of expensive USPS to where it's required.
    
    I'm forever discouraged by the way we come up with computer solutions
    for our customer's problems and stick to money and people solutions
    (oops, almost forgot to add - paperwork) for our own problems. 
    
    
    

    
    Good point this,
    
    	What really rankles me is that I might get 3 or 4 similar
    publications on the same day. I sometimes wonder whether it would
    be any cheaper if they came in one envelope together, instaead of
    separated?
    
    Would this save postage, distribution effort.
    
    John
    

                                                
    
    
    In my experience at Digital, It's come to my conclusion many a time
    that cost savings are relative to the party inconvienced.  At our
    office about 2 years or so ago, it was decided that the purchase
    of markers for eraser boards was too costly.  The markers were requested
    for order too frequently.  It was assumed these markers were growing
    legs and leaving the conference rooms.  Now I know for one, I was
    guilty of finding the discussion in the room higher priority than
    the marker being recapped, the marker would dry out and be thrown
    away.  Anyway markers for eraser boards in our facility are either
    one's personal possesion or available for checkout at the receptionist
    desk.  As would be expected, ... we adjusted.  
    
    We are now moving to a new facility, and I noticed it took at least
    three cart loads to remove all the rented plants from our building.
    
    
    Therefore:
    cost cutting efforts are relative to inconvience.  I wonder how
    many people would notice the lack of plants?
    
              

        Here's what section 6.29 of the Orange Book has to say about
        Employee Mailings (Effective: 06-FEB-84) 

 Policy

 Digital recognizes and respects the difference between conducting
 business at the office and at employees' homes.  Although there
 are occasions when it is appropriate to send information to
 employee homes, as a rule, managers and supervisors are expected
 to distribute business-related information at the work place.

 Practice

 Use of Digital's interoffice mail is preferred when disseminating
 information to selected employee groups.  Occasionally business
 related information should be sent to the home.  Employee
 benefits statements, DECWORLD and other written material which
 affect or are designed to reach the employee's family, are
 examples of the type of material which will be sent to employee
 homes on a regular basis.  Information that, for legal reasons,
 must reach every employee should also be sent via the U.S. mail.
 To determine the appropriateness of home mailings, the content
 and intent should be reviewed with the Corporate/Area Employee
 Relations Function and the Personnel Management Committee member
 representing the organization.

        It's pretty clear that some things must be sent to the home of the
        employee, in particular, things such as legal notices. 
        
        Regarding .7, it probably wouldn't be cheaper to put multiple
        "things" in the same envelope, unless all of them are going to
        everyone.  Even then, coordinating this probably wouldn't be
        simple.  (For instance, it *might* make sense to have issues
        of Sales Update and Competitive Update go out in one envelope,
        instead of different ones, but not everyone who receives one
        also receives the other.)
        
        Tom

    
    Many people have commented about the internal distribution system
    and how reliable is the postal system compared to internal distribution
    system etc.  If that is the case how come we don't use postal system
    for delivering our pay checks ? If the internal system can work
    effectively for distributing the pay checks, I strongly believe
    it will work very well for most of the DEC mail and DEC junk mail.
    
    In my view what is lacking is a strong "Organization & Methods"
    department. I hate to imagine that no one in our organization
    is looking in to such expenditures.
    

    Most companies concerned with cost cutting have incentive plans
    associated with suggestions made by employees, i.e. AT&T and ADP.
    For example, my husband & I received a dinner on ADP when he saved
    them a large sum of money during his days there as accounting manager.
    I think Digital could to put together an organizational
    cost-cutting committee  and get all employees involved with incentives.
    
    In the meantime, my contribution to cost cutting is...
    
    Frequently I receive APPLICATION SALES GUIDES.  There are about
    6 of them that arrive as a package through US mail.
    Since I am a software person in NY FINANCIAL District, the only
    guide that concerns me are the ones pertaining to my market.
    There is no reason for me to get the RESEARCH/ SCIENTIFIC LAB,
    GOVERNMENT, or ENGINEERING guides. 
    
    Beverly

re: .-1

The publication frequency was changed to every 4 months several years ago.

In reply to your question - no we don't - *IF* ELF could be guaranteed to
always work properly and be available.

jb

I just got a new telephone directory and my 3 months old directory went to 
trash. I hardly used it. I agree telephone directory is a valuable tool. 
But I wonder whether it is necessary to publish a new one every three months. 

In my view we all tend to keep the important DTN phone numbers in our
diaries/desk or in business card folders. We also have the additional tool
" ELF " for finding the phone numbers. Local offices also publishes phone
listings of local area people. 

If only DEC reduces the number of publications from 4 per year to 2 per
year ( i.e every six moths), I think we can definitely live with that. In
my view for 100,000 plus telephone directories at the rate of approx $5
per piece, elimination of two publications would result in a savings of
atleast one million dollars per year...

Hmmmm..... I hope some one high in the organization is reading this notes
file.

    Just a nit here: The last directory was dated March, the current
    one July; that's one directory every 4 months, or 3 a year, not
    4.  Because of publication deadlines, that book is about two months out
    of date when you get it.
    
    I really appreciate having a single corporate phone book instead
    of one per location, but I probably use ELF more (especially now
    that there's an ULTRIX version).

    Can the 'Applications Sales Guides'.. I do. (I put them in the library
    where no one reads them..)
    
    'Influence Key', indeed.  The information there is totally duplicated
    from other sources.. Systems/Options, Software Source Books, SCMP/CMP
    Directory, and many others.
    
    What a waste.  I can't begin to comprehend the amount of money we're
    spending for this redundant information.  If someone has a specialty,
    say, CIM, they shouldn't need little 'flowcharts' showing how to
    size a system !  Or little decision boxes showing when to choose
    a DIGITAL solution, and when to go with a CSO.  I agree someone
    thought long and hard over some of this info.. it's a shame because
    the basic idea reeks.
    
    karl moeller

    At one time I got on a distribution list for SPD's.  Every other
    week a bale of SPD's in a cardboard box was delivered to me.  If
    my job was to read and file spd's and my lips didn't move when I
    read, I suppose I could have actually read and file the things in
    the 10 working days before the next bale came along.
    
    I tried to get off the list, honest I did.  I called and left messages,
    I talked to the temps who manned the phones.  Every once in a while
    I would get the guy who took my name and didn't get around to removing
    it from the distribution list.  After a couple of years of this
    and probably a tree equivalent of Divide county , North Dakota,
    I moved to a different office.  After a couple of months the forwarded
    bales of paper started being delivered.  Every couple of weeks I
    get another bale.  If I soaked them into pulp and pressed them into
    simulated logs I could start a decent little side business.  Well
    I persevered.  Now I don't get them, anymore.  If I could only get
    the other trash I don't read stopped.  If only I had a fireplace...

    'Applications Sales Guides', once more, with feeling..  in addition
    to sending TWO to several folks in our office, many of the 'guides'
    are more than HALF BLANK ! Seriously.. to allow you to 'take notes'..
    
    I took an informal survey of Sales and Software in our office. 
    Not one person admitted to ever having used them (remember everyone
    gets their own copy, and some receive TWO) and several people had
    never even opened one.

    Re: 571.17:  Your situation brings back many memories of efforts
    I've put in (as a secretary) trying to get my managers off of
    irrelevant distribution lists.
    
    Perhaps it'd save time/money/effort/frustration for everyone involved
    if the people sending out mass mailings simply gave us a contact
    name/node for the originator of the distribution list?  I can't count
    the number of times I've tried to track down the originator of lists
    and have been pointed in so many directions that I finally gave
    up and just throw stuff out as it comes.  I don't think it'd be
    *too* difficult for the labels to include the "From" line as well
    as the "To"!
    
    

        Most mailing list maintenance is done in Northboro, by a central
        group that maintains the mailing lists for many other groups (and
        also generates the labels for the printing).  
        
        They are listed in the DEC telephone directory in several places,
        e.g., under "LABELS, Addressing and List Maintenance", NRO2-2/C2,
        DTN 234-4429 (as well as under "Mailing Services" under the
        "Mailing Area" listing under the "MAIL SYSTEMS" heading). I think
        this function is a part of Publishing and Circulation Services,
        which has both a "Customer Service Manager" and a "Distribution
        Manager" listed under that heading, all in NRO. 
        
        Tom

    I was told today that a TEAM of district managers is coming to our
    town in a few days to take about 11 of us out for a 5 yr. lunch
    celebration.  It was done recently in a large town north of us,
    and i guess they feel they gotta do it for us, too.  the fact that
    about half of us *celebrants* have already been treated to lunch
    by our um doesn't seem to count.  guess there has to be a *good*
    showing.  (one guy was asked to turn his 5yr certificate back into
    the um so he can be *presented* with it!)  seems to me, the cost
    of flying this TEAM down here, plus the motels, plus the luncheon,
    multiplied by all the times that sort of thing might be done, is
    considerable.  Certainly not in the millions, but pretty big bucks.
    
    wonder if my lunch will be on my W2?

    I recently tried to get myself off a mailing list for mailings about a
    product I no longer work on.  When I contacted the person who manages
    the list, I found out that I would have to contact their manager,
    and have a message sent from my manager just to get me *off* the
    list.
    
    Ridiculous!

    Yesterday I got in the U.S. mail from DEC TWO packages. I opened
    the first and found a vinyl case holding three cassettes about selling
    to laboratories. I don't sell to laboratories and the 16 other reps
    that recieved one don't either.
    
    Wait there's more. Remember, I said TWO packages, I opened the second
    one and to my surprise it was an identical repeat of package one.
    It was an exact duplicate and every rep in the office got a duplicate.
                                                             
    The postage alone was $1.60. The cost of the tapes and package had
    to be every bit of at least $10, X 8,000 reps X 2.       
                                                             
    I estimate about 98% of these went directly in the trash.

    Could someone in Personnel tell me why when I send my resume over
    the NET or through internal mail, they waste postage sending their
    replies through the U.S. Mail?  My DEC address and NODE are included
    on my resume

    At least you seem to be getting replies...I think they cut costs
    in this area by not replying to most resume submissions

    
    Once again today I received a DEC Newsletter ( US field news ) by postal
    mail. This is published every month and sent to all field employees.
    I don't understand why such a document need to be sent by US mail.
    No one is going to miss any thing much, if the delivery is delayed by
    a day or two.
    
    What puzzles me is that if the company can distribute our pay checks
    week after week without any delay to all employees through internal
    distributing system, Why can't such newsletters also be distributed 
    through internal system.
                                                                     

    If the entire Channels Marketing organization 'went away', I daresay
    niether the Field Volume organization or the volume customers would
    ever notice.
    
    karl

    I wish SDC would stop shipping empty distribution kits, like the recent 
    VAX Cobol V4.1 shipment; for the ADS-without-media types, all you got
    was an inventory sheet and a "Read Before Installing or Using VAX
    COBOL" letter, in one of those big heat-sealed packages that you have
    to use a cannon on to get open.  Sheesh.  If the recipient is not
    getting media, and no new documentation is going out, all that's needed
    is a simple notification (in an ordinary envelope) that there's a new
    version of the product.

    Susan

Any or all of these might be good cost saving ideas, but some of them
also seem to imply that a current practice is "silly or stupid".

Generally, you have to look at the complete system before you can
really make that judgement.  Asking SDC, for example, to modify
a procedure to optomize shipment of a particular layered product
can easily cost ten times as much as it could ever save.

If you've never worked in a "production" environment this may
seem strange, but they globally optimize their costs by paying
low wages (compared to engineering) and dealing in a high-turnover
employee situation.  Consequently, every thing has to be written
down in careful step-by-step procedures, that an untrained and
relatively unskilled worker can perform without errors and with
little or no training.

Each procedure is equivalent to "tooling up" and starting a
"new production line".  Those are some of the heaviest capitol
investments any factory, including the SDC, faces.

To change a procedure requires:

	Research -- will the new procedure _really_ work?
	1000's of different customer situations must be
	considered, and on a worldwide basis with all of
	the incumbent legal/language/cultural/tradition details
	to consider.

	Development -- working through all the details and all
	the implications.  It might require a new "bin" in
	the warehouse, and a process to keep the bin filled
	to the right level, a new line on a bill of materials,
	a modified "fullfillment" plan, a new packaging or
	shipping technique, etc.  Perhaps even a new vendor
	contract and relatiohship to work out.

	Testing -- even after that, you have to test it.
	The process will have bugs, or it might not work
	at all.

	Implementation -- this might involve planning a
	changeover from the old procedure to the new one,
	managing the disruption, depleting obsolete inventory,
	training, and so forth.

Even the most _minor_ of changes has to go through all of this.

By the time you're done, switching from a piece of paper in a heavy
shipping package, to one in an ordinary business envelope, might
easily cost $100,000 (I'm probably guessing too _low_), against
lifetime savings of $10,000.  Net loss, $90,000.

I just picked the last reply as an example, and don't mean to
critisize it, because it might also well be a good cost saving
idea.  After all, I'm just pulling the numbers above out of the
air.  So these things should definately be passed on to those
who can judge them.

Just thought it might be useful to explain how complex and ponderous
a high-volume, low-cost, production operation can really be, and
why sometimes apparent stupidity isn't so stupid after all.

These systems, in their own way, are just as complex as our
software and hardware products.  And have their own version
of the "just a small matter of programming" and mythical man
month problems.

- greg

ps: I just went through this with respect to how License keys
    would be shipped.  They wanted to put a single piece of
    paper in a 'box'.  Why?  Because boxes and envelopes are
    handled differently at customer receiving docks, and a
    box will probably end up in the computer room where the
    key is really needed, while an envelope will probably
    be sent to accounting*, filed, and lost for an indeternminate
    time.  As usual, truth is stranger than fiction.

	* even though it says in big red letters "IMPORTANT ---
	  deliver to your SYSTEM MANAGER".  They don't know
	  who/what a system manager is.  Their instructions
	  just say, "all paperwork is to be sent to the
	  accounting departement."   (Hmmm, that's probably
	  where the 'system manager' works!)

    re .25
    
    I'm nosy - disregard if I'm being rude, but...
    
    Why were you sending your resume to personnel?
    
    JIm
    

    re: .30
    
    Sorry, but I don't buy that for a minute.
    
    I deal with hundreds of companies by mail and ALL of them manage
    to find the right package or envelope to send me the materials they
    want to send me,
    
    If there's an organization within Digital that cannot lower its
    recurring operating costs because the extraordinarily high one-time
    cost of introducing a new process and procedure, I wonder if they have
    been paying attention to Ken Olsen when he spoke of "change". 

    I think employees wouldn't object so much to this particular wastage of
    shareholder funds, if it weren't the case that the SDC doesn't give any
    of its internal consumers a meaningful choice regarding Automatic
    Distribution Kits, and then this monopoly passes these charges through
    to the cost centers for these 5 dollar null packages.  If this were a
    traditional producer/consumer relationship, we'd be calling this
    consumer fraud. 

.32

Spend some time at the SDC, then judge.  I have.

They are one of the best ranked manufacturing groups within the company.

It is not an excuse for anything.  It is an explanation of high-volume
manufacturing and production systems.

Nor does it claim that a particular suggestion is invalid;  in fact it
encourages them to be sent to SDC.  It explains why "common sense"
isn't always.

- greg

    RE: .27
    
>    What puzzles me is that if the company can distribute our pay checks
>    week after week without any delay to all employees through internal
>    distributing system...
    
    Unless, of course, you are a software resident.  In that case, you
    consider yourself fortunate to see your paycheck in the same month
    in which it was issued.  Last week, I noticed that one of our
    secretaries here still has some of the old "smaller" pay stubs (from
    June!) in her possession.  When you aren't given time to report
    to the office, or there isn't a meeting scheduled (one that you
    are not obliged to work through, that is), there is *no* distribution
    of mail.

RE: .-1
    
    You have the option of (a) selecting automatic deposit into DCU
    or a local bank, or (b) having your check mailed to your home. 
    In the latter case, it usually arrives on Friday, sometimes Saturday.
    In the former case (which I've been doing since the day DCU opened
    its doors) your secretary gets a stub which you can pick up at your
    leisure, but the money is deposited into your account usually on
    Wednesday, but ALWAYS by Thursday.  I highly recommend automatic
    deposit.
    
    							Pat

    
    	A very interesting topic, and one about which I have been
    	complaining for some time now.  What really gets to me is
    	the amount of redundant material -- granted it comes from
    	somewhat unrelated sources.  And even more irritating to
    	me is the QUALITY of those mailings -- heavy bond paper,
    	glossy brochures, BOUND (as opposed to stapled) literature,
    	etc.  Often I the aroma of the quality paper reminds me of
    	a yearbook.
    
    	I wish that they would just send me the amount of money they
    	spent on printing, packaging and postage.  It could amount
    	to a restaurant dinner each month.  I give alot of the stuff
    	to my kids to let them color in the flow chart boxes and any
    	other areas that seem defacable to them.  But within a few
    	minutes I get hit with frustrated whining because their crayons
    	won't stick to the glossy paper.

    	I have asked to be removed from some of these mailing lists,
    	but they say that it would be too difficult.  The mailing is
    	taken from some complete employee list, and any employee with
    	a Jnn or Enn job code gets one.  It would cost more to change
    	the mailing procedure than they would ever save by eliminating
    	a few mailings.
    
    	Joe Oppelt

    re: .35
    
    Yes, I do have direct deposit.
    
    My point, in reference to the earlier note, is that to distribute
    materials via corporate mail is to guarentee delays of up to 2 months
    for some people.  If any information requires a timely response, US
    Mail is the only way to go (at present).  This, of course, says
    nothing about material of "questionable" merit.
    
    Oh, and regardless of direct deposit, I find it downright *irritating*
    to get my paystub (a few weeks late) with one of those little messages
    that says "Remember, to enroll or change participation in
    this-and-such, contact your PSA by such-a-date", when "such-a-date"
    was sometime last week!
    
    Oh well, the "forgotten resident" syndrome is in another note (Thanks,
    Jim A.!)
    
    -- Russ

        >	somewhat unrelated sources.  And even more irritating to
    	>me is the QUALITY of those mailings -- heavy bond paper,
    	>glossy brochures, BOUND (as opposed to stapled) literature,
    	>etc.  Often I the aroma of the quality paper reminds me of
    	>a yearbook.

         
    As amazing at it might seem department:
    
    I have seen this expensive looking glossy paper at a cheaper price
    than the cheaper looking non-glossy.  Why?  I am not really sure
    why.  Volume of business?  Your guess is as good as mine.  The binding
    might be cheaper, as the printing company does not have to re-tool
    the equipment which can take a day or two for a large print job.
    
    I have to agree with Greg R., it seems wierd, but it can be cost
    effective.
    
    	- mark
    

    Last Saturday night around 10.30 PM, I happened to be driving thorugh
    the MRO cluster. To my surprise almost all the lights in all the  four
    buildings ( MRO1, MRO2, MRO3 and MRO4 ) were"ON".
    
    Who knows! Perhaps we have leased the buildings with "All utilities
    paid"
     

    This isn't limited to any one facility. We need to do a much better
    job turning down the power. I have raised this one before and it
    falls on deaf ears. Most of DEC is lit DAY AND NIGHT - 365 DAYS
    PER YEAR! cost???

    In the Mill, as the security guards made their rounds, they'd turn off
    lights.  In ZKO, we have the lights turn off automatically at 10pm each
    night, and if you want them back on, you call an extension, punch in a
    code for your area of lights (about 30 cubicles) and they're on for 2
    hours.  When they're ready to go out again, they flash once at the 10
    minute mark (or so), then again at about 30 seconds before they're
    ready to go out.
    
John

    Re .42:
    
>             -< Low tech and high tech.  They both work fine. >-
    
    Kind of reminds me of my first residency. I spent a year at the
    Department of Agriculture Headquarters in Washington. The lights
    in the restrooms were activated by motion sensors. If no motion
    was detected for X amount of time, the lights would switch off
    automagically. Thus, if someone entered the room, and the lights
    were in the 'off' state, they would switch on with no human
    intervention.
    
    The down side is when you're, shall we say, settled in for a bit
    of, shall we say again(?), reading.
    
    It was really kind of frustrating having to have to flap one's arms
    to let the lights know that they were not alone and that your
    reading material was not in braille.
    
    Jim
    
    

       RE: .43
       
       	Something similar happened to me in an interview in ZK a few
       	weeks ago.. We were sitting in a conf. room relaxing and
       	talking when the lights popped out.. I jumped cuz for me
       	as a system manager, that means "Run to the lab and pop out
       	all the buttons on the disks and call feild service".. We both 
       	laughed when we realised that we relaxed so much for so long
       	that it was just the motion sensor.. :-)
       
       							mike

    MR1 is heated electrically, so it doesn't matter whether the lights are
    left on or not, as long as the temp is below the night setting. 

    +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
    ! d ! i ! g ! i ! t ! a ! l !   I N T E R O F F I C E  M E M O R A N D U M 
    +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
 
 
    To: BXB 1 and 2 Tenants		Date:	3-Nov-88
	       				From:	Pamela Jessen
					Dept:	Facilities Admin
					DTN:	293-5285
					Loc/Mail Stop:  BXB1-2/C07
					Eng Net:   MSBCS::JESSEN

 
    Subject:   AFTER HOURS LIGHTING 
    
        
    Beginning tonight [Friday], we will be utilizing the energy management 

    system to help us reduce our consumption by turning lights off where 

    they are not being used.


    This project is something we have wanted to do for some time now and

    a lot of time has been spent analyzing it's implementation.  The result

    will be a cost savings for Digital with no impact on you other than 

    taking a moment to review the following:


    You will be able to get the lights in your area turned on when you come

    in off-hours by doing the following:

	o	Call the security desk at extension 5005 

	o	Tell the officer your location [building, floor, office
						number and pole number]

    The lights will come on and remain on for two hours.  Twenty minutes

    before the lights will go out, they will flash to warn you.  At that time

    you can determine whether or not you want them to remain on for longer

    than twenty minutes.  If so, repeat the process shown above.  If not,

    exit the premises since the lights will go out.


    The schedule to be used for both buildings is as follows:

			  OFF		  ON

	Mon - Fri	10:00 p.m.	6:00 a.m.

	Sat - Sun	 8:00 p.m.	8:00 a.m.		
            
    Thanks for your cooperation and if there are any glitches in the

    system, please let me know.

    Wouldn't it be a real drag if you happened to be in someplace (like
    a computer room) where the lights might stay on when the flashing
    occurred.  Ten minutes later you go back to your desk, and five
    minutes after that you are fumbling around, trying to restore some 
    Saveset in the dark     *;'>.
    
    Doug

    
    Re: .45
    
    If MR01 is heated electrically, then why do we have those huge boilers
    on the third level, and in the enclosures near the windows, are
    there pipes (I saw them when they were open, as they were being
    installed). Also, a friend of mine delivers oil to MR01. (I hope
    not for the french fries in the cafeteria!)
    
    Fred

    MR01 has electric heat. (I suppose that in the last ten years, the
    building could have had its heating/cooling system revamped, but until
    I hear from somebody with *technical* information, other than "I saw
    some boilers and pipes", I will assume it hasn't changed since I worked
    there.) 
    
    In back of MR01, third level, there are some huge cooling towers. These
    are part of the system used to make chilled water which is pumped
    around MR01 through all of the window units on levels 1 and 2. (Level 3
    is no longer manufacturing space, and I don't know what may have been
    done to it.) Also in those window units are electrical resistance
    heaters. The window units have nothing warm pumped to them.
    
    The room air flows through the window units and is cooled (even in the
    winter time!) and is then re-heated electrically enough to warm the air
    to whatever the room temperature is supposed to be. (Please don't tell
    me this sounds unreasonable. It *is* unreasonable, and was done when
    RCA built the building in days of cheap energy. One reason is that it
    makes dehumidifying easy.) 
    
    Energy saving in MR01 is therefore counter-intuitive to any more
    reasonable system: 
    
	To save energy in the winter, use the lights a lot because
    	that doesn't pass the air through the window chiller units. 
    
	To save energy in the summer, set the thermostat LOW in order
    	to avoid electrically reheating the air. 
    
    In a 1970s attempt to reduce energy consumption, the temperature of the
    circulating cooling water was raised. That resulted in less
    dehumidification, and water dripped from ceiling vents onto the
    computers. That attempt was quickly ended.
    
    Now, it is possible that this has been revamped in the last few years.
    In that case a technical description of how the changes operate would
    be interesting. 
    
    I have no idea what uses oil heat. Perhaps only part of the building or
    some special equipment 

Another cost saving idea.

I work in the Mill.  Building 1 has two stair towers at each
end of the building that require you go to the outside of the 
building to go from floor to floor.  (it's kind of hard to 
describe but if you've seen it, you'll understand)

Anyway, if I want to go from 1-2 to 1-3, I have to go outside 
on 1-2, come inside to the stair tower, go up the stairs, go 
outside on 1-3 and then go into the building.

NOw, this might seem like an inconvenience, but if you look
at the amount of HEAT and Air Conditioning that is let "outside"
on a daily basis,  it must be tremendous.  (the building is 
heated, as is the stair tower)

Each of these "outside parts" is a landing, that could easily be 
enclosed.


I suggest that DEC enclose these landings and remove one of 
the doors on each floor, thus saving the tremendous energy 
necessary to reheat all of the air that comes into the building
and into the stair tower.


-bill
who sees these doors open at least a couple of hundred times
a day.

    Re: -.1
    
    I do believe there is a "SUGGESTIONS" procedure within Digital.
    You may wish to try your recommendation along that path.  You might
    even get a bonus for the suggestion!
    
    Good Luck,
    
    Doug

>    I do believe there is a "SUGGESTIONS" procedure within Digital.
>    You may wish to try your recommendation along that path.  You might
>    even get a bonus for the suggestion!

	I've been asking about a suggestion program for years and am always
	told that we don't have one.

			Alfred

Then I think the first suggestion is that Digital impliment a suggestion
program!  8^)

re Note 571.50 by PRAVDA::JACKSON:

> I suggest that DEC enclose these landings and remove one of 
> the doors on each floor, thus saving the tremendous energy 
> necessary to reheat all of the air that comes into the building
> and into the stair tower.

But those landings are part of the "charm" of the Mill!

Bob

Re .54:

>                       -< what next--fill in the pond? >-

Then where do you want people to throw their non-working equipment?
				/AHM

    No, those landings  on building 1 are not a "CHARM". They are a
    PAIN. Specially in December, January, February, and March when there
    are snow and ice storms. I have slipped many a time while going
    up or down during these months.
    
    Frank,_a_10_year_resident_of_Building_1_who_would_never_go_back.

    re .53
    
    In European Field Service Logistics we have a variant of a suggestion
    program which is called PIP. This acronym stands for Productivity
    Improvement Program and is based on groups of Deccies working together
    to identify and evaluate potential savings and hopefully propose
    and implement solutions. The main difference with conventional
    suggestion schemes is that the people who identify the problems
    have the chance to work the solutions instead of the ideas
    automatically be handed over to some other group for evaluation.
    Obviously management buy in is necessary for the people to have
    time (approx one per week) to meet, discuss, evaluate etc. and for
    implementing solutions that require investment or system changes
    etc.
    
    While the scheme is not perfect it has given many people the chance
    to be involved in improvements and/or elimination of wasteful
    situations.
    
    a very simple example:-
    
    Here in Nijmegen the suggestion to store pallets indoors instead
    of outdoors saved the company more than US$3,000 per year.
    Reason :- storing the pallets indoors dried them out and thus reduced
    shipping weight by some 4-5 lbs per pallet resulting in worthwhile
    savings when pallets are used for airfreight. Cost of solution is
    virtually nothing even when assigning a 'ficticious' cost to the
    floor space occupied by the pallets .
    
    Biggest saving to date:-
    
    Saving more than US$ 1 million per year on modules scrapped in US
    on receipt from Europe. Reason for scrapping 'wrong packaging' and
    not that the modules were not repairable.
    
    Solution - not the most elegant but workable - invest money here in
    Nijmegen in US packaging material for the modules most often binned and not
    shipping the modules for repair until they were 'correctly' packed.
    
    Need I say more?
    
    john evans

>   No, those landings  on building 1 are not a "CHARM".

        I don't know about charm but it's the closest thing to total
        darkness I ever encountered when I stepped into one of those
        stair wells during a power failure!

        ...or was someone saving electricity? 8^)

        	Mike

    The stairwells should have emergency lights, aka "Coconut Grove"
    lights. They became standard after the infamous Coconut Grove nightclub
    fire in Boston in the early 1940s which killed 100s of people who
    couldn't find the exits in the dark. 

>   The stairwells should have emergency lights, aka "Coconut Grove"

        Agreed. I really don't remember checking out _why_ it was so
        dark nor did the law occur to me at the time.

        As technology improves... Here in HLO, large conference rooms,
        rest rooms, and stair wells have "people sensors". The lights
        will automatically go out after some time interval and will
        be turned on if there is any movement in the range of the
        sensor.

        That's also interesting. Open a door into a dark area only to
        have the fluorescent lights flicker on.

        	Mike

        Am I spending too much time here after the sun goes down? 8^)

    Most of the "people sensor" light switches in our area (HLO2-2) are
    gone again, having been replaced with the original "normal" switches.
    The motion-sensor ones were a major nuisance to adjust, especially in
    the smaller conference rooms we use for small meetings and for
    interviewing people.  I got tired of them fast after several meetings
    where the lights shut themselves off several times and where we
    eventually had to detail the person sitting nearest the sensor to wave
    his/her hands in front of it about once a minute... They do seem to
    work well in some areas, like where the big photocopiers and the
    vending machines are.  I guess people using those rooms are making more
    motions than people sitting in a conference room talking often are.
    At any rate, it shouldn't be too tough to get people to shut off the
    lights when they leave a conference room!   

Of course, part of the reason they were removed may be because one 
caught fire during a VP meeting after which they discovered the 
devices weren't UL listed...

    re. 3100 model 30 power supply.
     I came accross a 3100 which had a fan not working in the power supply.
    I contacted the library and they gave me a part number of 70-26637-01
    which is the replacement fan. When I went back to install the fan
    I discovered the fan is rivited in. WHY?? So needless to say I had
    to replace the power supply which is probably between 3 to 4 hundred
    dollars. The price of the fan was .56 cents!!!

    This idea of rivetting in the fan to the power supply probably fits
    under the "revenue increasing" category, ;^), i.e. assuming we are
    selling more to customers than to ourselves.
    
    

    reply .63
    	
    	If you knew any thing about design for manufacturing or design for
    assembly you'd know the reasoning behind why they riveted fans instead
    of using screws. Also the power supply on the 3100 is considered a FRU
    and is not suppose to be "fixed" by the customer. If it was under field
    service contract the whole unit would be replaced and the defective
    unit would be sent back to a field service center were it would
    probably be salvaged. Power supplies are a dangerous thing to let our
    customers fool with. All we'd need is to have a customer try to replace
    a fan that failed, get electrocuted because he fooled with the supply,
    and then we'd have a nice lawsuit on our hands. 
    	The thought behind riveting the fans could go even deeper. The cost
    of screws versus rivets has been a hot spot for a lot of mechanical
    engineers. I personally know the engineer who designed the power supply
    for the 3100, how about I give him a call and he can even answer the
    question as to why the fan is riveted. Before you call something dumb I
    suggest you try to understand why something might be done a certain
    way.
    
    Brian

    
    I assumed .63 was a Customer Engineer, and was simply trying to point
    out a cost savings to the Company by allowing CE's to replace fans in
    the Field. Thereby SAVING the shipping and restocking costs. Customer
    Engineers typically see products from a different angle that design 
    engineers, not better or worse just different. As a former FE/CE I 
    feel that a better communication path is needed to address these very
    issues. What appears to be a manufacturing cost savings, some times
    ripples out to the field as an extremely costly repair.
    
                          IMHO
    				Fred Deady
    				DTN 425.3379

    
    
    reply .66
    
    	I am relaxed, I was just blowing off steam. I keep forgeting to
    have my coffee BEFORE I read any notesfiles in the A.M. ;)
    
    
    Brian

re: <<< Note 571.65 by KNGBUD::B_SIART "THE/OWLS/ARE/NOT/WHAT/THEY/SEEM" >>>
    	
>    Also the power supply on the 3100 is considered a FRU
>    and is not suppose to be "fixed" by the customer. If it was under field
>    service contract the whole unit would be replaced and the defective
>    unit would be sent back to a field service center were it would
>    probably be salvaged. Power supplies are a dangerous thing to let our
>    customers fool with. All we'd need is to have a customer try to replace
>    a fan that failed, get electrocuted because he fooled with the supply,
>    and then we'd have a nice lawsuit on our hands. 

In my opinion, any customer that gets into the 'innards' of the systems does so
at their own peril. Service is to be performed by 'qualifed service personnel
only'.

FRU or Non-FRU (Field Replaceable Unit) doesn't imply self-service by the
customer, it just means that the entire assembly is meant to be replaced.
Repairs (if performed at all) to the component level are done in a repair
center. 

To avoid 'nice lawsuits' as described above we would have to weld the doors
shut and glue the covers on nearly every piece of DEC gear ever built. 

Lee

    Of course if you really did Design For Assembly, you'd know there are
    ways of mounting the fan in a power supply that require no fasteners--
    screws or rivets. The VT-1000 has a good example.
    
    John H.

    
    
    Reply .69
    
    	C'mon! I said I didn't have my coffee when I wrote the note. ;)
    
    I was just making a general statement.
    
    
    b

   Of course, if you have ever had to change the fans in a PDP8-E then you
   would curse the very concept of airflow....
   
   1. Take off the covers
   2. Disconnect all cables
   3. Take out all Modules
   4. take out the Back plane
   5. Take out the power supply
   6. Remove the fans (screwed) and un solder the connections.
   7. replace fans (re solder connections)
   8. replace pwer supply, backplane modules and cables.
   9. Debug all all of the problems you caused with the module moving....
   
   q
   

    ever try replacing the powersupply fans in the DECsystem 20?

    PDP-8? DECsystem20? Hey, guys those are a bit old. One would
    hope the company would learn something about both cost to manufacture
    and cost to repair since then.
    
    			Alfred

    
    
    
    	While I was talking on my office phone this morning I glanced
    	down and noticed all the different things I could do.
    
    		- Call Forward 
    		- Transfer 
    		- Hard Hold 	 
    		- etc.
    
    	About 8 different things. I don't even know what some of the
    	options do. 
    
    	Out of all of the options I think I may have used Transfer
    	2 or 3 times in the past 5 years.
    
    	Personally as long as my calls get forwarded to my secretary 
    	after the 3rd  ring I could do with out all the extras.
    
    	I wonder how much it costs Digital to have all the extra
    	features for every employee with a phone....
    
    	I realize groups without secretaries pick-up each others phones
    	and take messages but I think those groups are exceptions rather
    	than the norm.
    
    	Maybe DEC could save a few bucks by tailoring the phone service
    	to the needs of individual groups as oppossed to Cadillac phone
    	service for every employee.
    
    							Mike
    							----

    
    	I wonder how much it costs Digital to have all the extra
    	features for every employee with a phone....

Probably next to nothing: since the phone system is a computer, the
"cost" is the cost to program the feature for one line + a few bytes
of memory for each phone.  I'll bet it's more expensive to print
the manual than to provide the service.

Of course, Dec might be *billed* big-bucks for each feature.

Martin.

    In most instances, the features that you see available on your phone do
    not cost Digital any more money;  this was not always the case.  The
    RBOC's pricing of Centrex services used to based on features per line
    (and still may be).  And, in certain instances NTI's pricing of PBX
    software packages can be broken up be different features.
    
    Having evaluated proposals for PBX replacement and installation for
    Digital, I can tell you that in most cases, these features are part of
    the basic software package in the PBX (and they do work to save you
    time and money, if used properly.....) offered by Mitel, NTI, AT&T,
    etc.
    
    
    Jonathan

    
    
    	I'm thinking that it might add up to the big bucks catagory 
    	if home phone service is any indication.
    	
    	I also seem to remember that buissiness phone service is more 
    	expensive than home service.

    
    
    	.76 snuck in as I was writing .77

If you are served by a PBX, there is no cost to Digital for providing those
features.

The author of the suggestion works in a facility served by a Northern Telecom
SL100, which definitely provides all of those features on every line at no
cost whatsoever.  He previously worked in a location served by another kind
of PBX, which also provides all of those features at no cost.

In particular, it would be extremely annoying if some phones didn't have
the transfer feature.  It is unacceptable in a business environment to not
be able to transfer a call to another more appropriate person when it is
misdirected.

/john

    re. 79
    
    John, if we use the LIGHT indicator on our telephones to tell
    us we have a message recorded vs hearing a unusual sound when
    we pick up the telephone, we do get an extra charge.
    
    I'm on the SL100 in AKO ! And that was my understanding, are
    the telephone folks here wrong ?
    
    Lloyd

    The difference (and this was answered by Fred G. in the PBX notesfile)
    is that when the SL100's were installed, voice messaging was a
    relatively expensive proposition, so the decision was made (a right
    one, too) not to install line cards that have message waiting light
    capabilities.  So, in the SL100's we utilize "stutter dial tone" to
    indicate that you have messages.  To have message waiting light
    capability would involve card replacement of about $180 per line (this
    is off the top of my head), so yes, it would involve an additional
    expense to Digital.
    
    Jonathan
    
    

    re: .75
    
    Wrote some of the code for host to pbx's with NTI back in '83 and
    can tell you the features are in the software usually...so the cost
    is up front..after that it's just charge for it very much like your
    local cable company does when you want a feature....or like DEC did
    years ago when memory boards contained max mem available and when
    a customer wanted more we removed jumpers from the memory board to
    enable it then charged big bucks for it...!!!
    

    I just jumped into this conversation....
    
    re: 81
    
    Thanks, Jonathan, for clearing that up.  Your figures are correct.
    
    re: 80
    
    SET MODE TONGUE_IN_CHEEK
    
    No, Lloyd, we would *never* misinform you!
    
    
    
    Linda
    

    My current favorite waste of time and postage :
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Subject: Account Renewal Form - Action Required
                *** DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MEMO ELECTRONICALLY ***
            *** IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS PLEASE CONTACT THE IS HOTLINE ***
     One or more of your accounts on the Western States-South systems
    (former  Southwest Area) will be expiring within the next 30 days.
    Please print the Renewal Form which follows, mark all accounts that you
    currently have and obtain required signatures.  When complete mail the
    signed  paper original via interoffice mail to the IS Hotline @TUS.  If you
    must send  it U.S. mail, send to 15601 Mosher Street, Tustin, CA 92680-6426.
    
    Electronic mail, xerox copies and facsimile responses will not be
    accepted.
                                ACCOUNT RENEWAL FORM
    
                         Please Return to the IS HOTLINE @TUS
    NO Facsimiles, Xerox Copies or Stamped Signatures Will Be Accepted
    
    Please TYPE or LEGIBLY PRINT in INK and completely fill out the form.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    We have a multi-million, bet-your-business electronic network out
    there, with multiple layers of security on ALL systems connected
    thereto, with qualified system managers, guidelines to account password
    protection, etc. etc.  And when it really comes down to it, what do we
    trust ?  INK signatures, paper, and the U.S. MAIL.
    
    pfui.
    
    karl
    
     Name:________________________________  
    Date:________________________________
      

    RE: .-1

>    protection, etc. etc.  And when it really comes down to it, what do we
>    trust ?  INK signatures, paper, and the U.S. MAIL.

    We (Digital) are developing electronic authentic software as part of
    DSSA (Digital Systems Security Architecture) but at the moment, it is
    still quite reasonable to require this information be sent offline,
    with real signatures and via U.S. mail.  Doing it electronically would
    make it too easy for a hacker to "renew" the accounts of an employee
    who has transferred, left the company, on leave or vacation or even just
    not used a particular account for a while. 

    And before someone points out that a hacker could mail in a bogus form,
    let me point out that while computer hacking is a somewhat new, obscure
    and hard to prosecute crime, mail fraud and forgery are not.

    Steve