Conference 7.286::digital

    I'm working on a BS nights just so I can qualify for an MBA program.
    
    I'm getting a lot out of going back to school now. You'll find that
    there are NEW things to learn since you got your degree.
    
    2 nights a week is reasonable I find. I try to get courses that
    meet 1 night a week though.
    
    If you find that you wnat to take 2 courses at the same time be
    sure you understand fully how much work is involved with each. Talk
    tothe profs first! I did 2 at once last year and found that 1 was
    taking ALL my time! I was luck in that the other did not take much
    but in the end both I suffered in both courses.
    
    I've been with DEC 10 years and now I find I need the knowledge
    not so much the degree. There's a lot of value to the self
    satisfaction.
    
    I've waited for my kids to get grown up enough that they understand
    what I'm trying to do. That makes it easier at home. Be sure that
    your family understands the costs to them too. You'll have less
    time to spend with 'em at have to manage the additional stress.
    
    All in all It's worth it! Go for it!
    
    /tb/

    See note 12.  I asked the same question around reply 30 or so. 
    Also the college conference (4GL::COLLEGE) note #10.
    
    I'm pulling for you! It isn't easy is it? 
    
    Regards,
    
    pnsoehl

    I got my MBA (New York University) in 1984, I liked it so much, I
    joined the faculty. 
    
    Things that matter:
    
    (1) Digital's (ie your manager's) support
    (2) Your family's support
    (3) The quality of the school and its faculty
    (4) Your interest in the subject matter (ie have you memorized
    "In Search of Excellence", read the Wall Street Journal from cover
    to cover)
    
    Things that don't matter:
    
    (1) Any one particular course
    (2) Getting a GPA above 3.95
    (3) The effect upon your salary when you graduate

    I don't know about MBA, but I spent 8 years getting my BS; 2 years
    full time and 6 years evenings. I guess the greatest value to me
    was the self discipline and the orientation toward a goal.
    
    Would I do it again?
    You bet!
    
    Larry
    

    from an ignorant Brit  - re .3, what's a GPA ?
    
    I too am considering an MBA - is it worth it in DEC terms ?
    
    Peter 

RE:  .-1

GPA = Grade Point Average

Usually on a scale of 1 to 4 with

4=A
3=B
2=C
1=D
0=F 

RE: .5
>    from an ignorant Brit  - re .3, what's a GPA ?
    
    A GPA is a grade point average...
    
    In easy terms:
    
    A = 4, B = 3, C = 2, D = 1, F = 0
    
    4 courses
    
    Course 1 you get an A  (4 points)
    Course 2 you get an A  (4 points)
    Course 3 you get a  B  (3 points)
    Course 4 you get a  D  (1 point)
    
    Add up the points, and divide by the number of courses
    
    so (4+4+3+1)/(4)  = 12/4   3  so your GPA is 3 or the equuivalent
    of a "B"
    
    Here in the USA we "normally" have two GPA's.... one for the courses
    we JUST finished, and one for the cumlative of all the courses we
    have taken, .3 was refering to the cumlative GPA
    
    GLK
    

Now you've really gone and confused the Europeans...

Unlike the U.S., European Universities don't give grades; theoretically you
don't even really have to go to class, all you have to do is pass exams.

.-1 is also a bit simplistic; the GPA is actually determined by taking the
grade for the course multiplied by the number of credit hours for the course
divided by the total number of credit hours.  For example, a Physics class
which has five hours of lecture and three hours of lab each week would usually
be a six credit hour course.

/john

	re .3

	Brings to mind a couple more questions.

	1) Does it matter what institute you receive the degree from?

	   IE:The matchbook 'Lasalle Institute' vs Harvard are extreems,
	      but what about those in between.

	2) Effect upon salary.

	   I may choose to study for personal satisfaction and that warm
	   feeling one gets when something is accomplished, but...
	   realistically, I am looking towards future advancement and
	   hoping this would contribute. Considering the time and money
	   it would take, (both DIGITAL's and mine..I consider my time
	   of value..) what value would the company place on the degree?
	   Would it make a difference?  I realize if all other things
	   where the same except for the degree it would matter, but
	   other than that, would it really open any new doors?

	Bemused_and_Befuddled_but_getting_there.

    I did exactly what you're considering.  I started a part-time program
    at Clark University in 1979 (?) [a long time ago, now, it seems!]
    and finished up my thesis in the fall of 1984.  I had one major
    overriding objective:  I wanted to get a good PRACTICAL background
    and overview in management.  I have a B.S. in Mathematics & M.S.
    in Computer Science -- I wasn't interested in a theoretical MBA.
    
    I found that the MBA won't be directly rewarded by Digital.  BUT
    -- it will allow you to more easily explore options in the company
    that may have not been available to you.  That was my experience.
    
    Some of the things referred to earlier -- support by the company
    (not only the tuition refund but support from your management);
    support by your family (if you have one) and perseverence are
    important.  I did 2 courses a semester most of the time -- it helped
    get through it quickly!
    
    The hardest part was about halfway through -- you've spent 2-3 years
    working on it, you probably have another 2-3 years to go -- and
    it's been a LONG haul -- you lose evenings and weekends -- and stop
    golfing and skiing and ...
    
    If you're driven by personal reasons [gain knowledge, gain experience,
    open doors] -- it should work out for you.  If you're focussed on
    external reasons ($$$, new jobs, etc.) it probably won't.
    
    Good luck!  It's a long haul -- and worth it.
    
    			- John

    I received my MBA from UNH Exec MBA program.  I attended classes
    All day Friday and Saturday every other weekend for two years.
    To say tat it weared on family and friends is an understatement.
    I graduated in June of 86, so it has a little over a year now.
    I was a supervisor when I started, I am a supervisor now.  I have
    seen no effect on my management of my new found knowledge.  I have
    found little directly applicable knowledge.  I supervise software
    engineers.  I am writing this quickly so if it does not flow, I
    apologize.  Organizational behavior helps and a little of the marketing
    is nice but not necessary.
    
    Someone said, if you are doing this for personal gratification,
    DO IT!  I am happy I did it for that reason.  If you are expecting
    direct benefits (eg promotion, $$$) forget it.  And absolutely
    make sure that your family realizes what is going to happen.  You
    are going to disappear for N years, do not kid yourself or them!
    I made a lot of good friends and contacts, which is a nice side
    benefit.
    
    If you would like to talk about this at greater length feel free
    to call.
    
    Bruce

    I received my MBA 1 1/2 years ago.
    
    I must agree that it had no effect on my salary, job level etc.
    I did not think that there would be any immediate effect so my
    expections were correct.  Because I realized that the "world wasn't
    going to change" when I finished the program,  I took my time doing
    it.  I spend 5 years part time from start to finish.  I never took
    more than 1 class at a time and usually followed a 2 semesters on
    then 1 semester off routine.
    
    I'm glad I did it :
    
    1.  All things being equal I think the fact that I have the MBA
    might help me "beat out" someone without it for some future 
    opening.  
    
    2.  I do believe that there are things that I learned in the program
    that help me perform better.  As mentioned above Organizational
    Behavior was an excellent class.  Some of the books I had to read
    for the program (IN SEARCH OF EXCELLENCE) made me look at things
    in a new light.
    
    3.  Having a graduate degree qualified me to apply for a get a part
    time adjunct faculty position at a local college.  I teach COBOL
    2 nights a week and I think its "easy money".  
    
    My advice:
    
    Set your expectations correctly.
    Take your time.
    
    GO FOR IT.
    
    				Ira
    
    
    

    I think that the significance of your degree will also depend upon
    where you work and where you live.  I work at digital and live in
    Massachusetts.  I work with coworkers who have Masters in Business,
    Computer Science, etc.  It isn't really a big deal, and most of
    us don't know who does and who doesn't.
    
    I used to work for another company, in another city.  Everyone knew
    who had a degree, and in what.  Except for those who had been around
    over ten years, it was unlikely you were salary without a minimum
    of a bachelors degree.  There were enough candidates for programming
    jobs that you had little chance of even getting started without
    specifically a four-year CS or MIS degree.
    
    Not so with Master's degrees.  If you had an MBA, management smiled
    upon you, and you'd probably be considered for the next supervisor 
    opening.  If you had a Master's in CS, you could probably pick your
    position (lots of programming-type positions).
    
    That's the difference when you live in an area with the highest
    density of colleges in the US.
    
        Peggy

    I am an MBA drop-out and regret neither the time I spent nor stopping.
    I found, curiously enough, that starting an MBA did impress people
    and seem to give me some benefit in finding *new* jobs, but there
    seemed to be little extra economic value in the degree.  I started
    the degree to help me move up professionally and, as so many other
    people do, quit when I discovered that the rewards were not worth
    the sacriface.
    
    I did find that some of the business-related courses, Accounting
    in particular, helped me professionally.  Perhaps, what you need
    is to take chosen courses for specific knowledge that can help you.
    
    The degree is a great sacriface and not always worth it.  Think
    long and hard.
    
    Jan

    
    
    I received my MBA from Anna Maria College in Paxton, MA.  This was
    an executive program which included 13 courses each 9 weeks.  The
    classes met on Saturday (all day).  One in the morning, the second
    in the afternoon.  Once each session there was a mandatory seminar
    which began  after the second class was over.  As far as salary
    goes, I haven't found my degree to be of much value.  As far as
    personal satisfaction goes, I'm glad I did it.  If you want any
    details on the program write to me on RIGHT::BOUDREAU.

	I've talked to a few that have gone the 'executive' route.
	The major drawback is time. Feedback has been that it takes not
	only all of your personal time, but even digs into work :^).

	I relish my time with the family and realize that going part time
	will dig into that, but not to the extent of the 'exec'. At least
	not at this time.


	I do have a question on quality. The 'exec' takes considerably
	less time and the compression is intense. I would have to imagine
	that it does tend to 'gloss over' quite a bit.

	I know the colleges (most of them) would try their best to keep
	the quality level high, but...

	Is what is left out unimportant?
	Can you really keep that pace and quality at the same time?


	I'm not knocking it, just questioning it, never having been through
	it, I cannot judge.

	Steve_who_is_signing_up_for_his_first_course_next_week_if_they_have_it.
		(only 3.5 years left)

    
    
    Hi, I have been thinking for sometime to do something along these
    lines as I feel the need to have some challenge which is totally
    different from the job I am doing.
    
    I graduated in 1976 in Applied Physics and since then have worked
    as a commissioning engineer in telephone exchanges, then as a field
    service engineer and currently as a technical support engineer.
    
    First I thought of doing an MBA but could not find any institute
    in the UK which had a program of part-time study. So I started
    exploring two other avenues as follows:
    
    	i) a diploma in finance and accounting, covering:
    
    		Principles of accounting
    		principles of management
    		financial accounting
    		management accounting
    	
    		-this is a two evenings per week for 1 year.
    
    	ii) a diploma in management studies
    
    		no details of the contents but I think it is a 2 year
    		course (think it is part-time.
    
    In addition to the above I also thought about doing a course in
    Cost and Management Accounting but was not quite sure of this one.
    
    Can anybody shed any light on it i.e. talk me into or out of it.
    And, pardon my ignorance but what is a BS.
    
    Thanking you in advance,
    Pervesh sharma.
    		

> < Note 360.17 by THESUN::SHARMA "Perwesh Sharma, UKCSC" >
>    And, pardon my ignorance but what is a BS.

In the US, a BS or BA is a Bachelor of Science (or Arts), typically
a four year degree.  
An AS or AA is an Associate's degree, perhaps what you call a diploma,
and is typically a two year degree (often in lieu of a Bachelor's).
A Master's (of science, arts, business admin, etc) is typically
a one or two year program with a Bachelor's degree as a prerequisite.
It may or may not require independent research (a thesis).

- tom]

    Since Digital offers its own management training program (at least
    to SWS managers) is an MBA still worthwhile?  Does Digital recognize
    a graduate of its own program equal to an MBA?  How would other
    companies look at someone who has completed an in-house management
    training program?
    
    I'm leaning toward an MBA, but I'm not sure I'm willing to give
    up personal and family life for 6 years!
    
    		Rich

	An MBA alternative.....

	I switched from a traditional MBA program into Lesley College's
	M.S. in Applied Management program.  It has elements of an MBA 
	education, but leans towards more practical, applicable, management 
	situations.  

	Classes (excellent) meet 1 night a week for 4 hours, and are highly 
	participatory.  Occasional study group meetings are required.  The 
	workload (substantial) involves a lot of case studies, writing short 
	papers almost weekly, and a thesis.  The good part is that there are 
	no exams, and the program (accelerated) takes 1.5 years!  

	Courses include:  Management, Org. Behavior, Research/Evaluation 
	Methods, Human Resources Mgt., Managerial Economics, Financial Mgt., 
	Mgt. Info. Resources, Marketing Mgt., Mgt. Seminar, Thesis Study.

	Groups begin several times throughout the year in various locations.

	For more info:
	Lesley College PMBI (Programs in Mgt. for Business & Industry)
	868-9624 (program info: ext. 800)

	Good luck!
	Mike

If you enjoy school, can spare the time, and want the feeling of 
accomplishment, an MBA can be a rewarding experience. On the other hand, if 
you are looking to become a VP or something, I'm not sure how much an MBA will 
help (it probably won't hurt).  Today at Digital, if you are good you should
be able to attain up to a level 12 or 13 job without any degree at all 
(assuming you have a very good track record).

I have no degree (just a couple of years of undergraduate courses) and have 
done quite well at Digital. There has been no apparent effect on my 
advancement because I lack a degree.

Jim

    I agree with almost every reply here. I got my MBA in 83. As far
    as I can tell, it hasn't helped my career one bit, and it definitely
    has not helped my salary. Do I regret it? NO!!! I have an undergraduate
    degree in Psychology, so the MBA was a nice way to round out my
    education. I truly enjoyed going back nights, as an adult. Although
    my undergraduate school was an excellent one, and my graduate school
    was not exactly the Harvard type, I feel I got a better classroom
    education at the so-so graduate school because I was an adult, not
    an 18-22 year old.
    
    Granted, when I got my MBA I was single, and had time to spare.
    As a working parent I would not recommend it if you plan on staying
    at DEC and feel you are making the sacrifice to better your career 
    (thus your family). I make the point about staying at DEC because
    lots of other companies value the degree, where DEC seems to value
    the work experience. The time sacrifices are great, and your kids 
    need you. On the other hand, if you want to do it for yourself, 
    (and I think everyone needs to do something for themselves) GO
    AHEAD!!! Try it. Take a course or two, and see how it goes.  
    
    
    My husband on the other hand it going to school to get his masters
    in Computer Science so he can make a career change. He works at
    a company that places a great emphasis on degrees. It is a great 
    strain on him and me, but we feel he needs to get out of his current 
    career.
    
    
    

	I want to thank all for their thoughts and comments. I'm giving it a
	shot. I've already started the first, of what I hope is many, course.
	Organizational behavior.

	re -1, I HAVE noticed the difference in night school, not
	so much the age as the attitude. Everyone in the class is there
	for their own reason, but collectively it's because they (we) 'want'
	to be there, unlike my undergrad courses taken as child.

	Right now my being in school is a "novel" idea to my kids and the
	whole family is still adjusting to the changes. It does take a
	chunk of time.

	Even though I'm doing this for ME, there is still a hope that the
	effort will be rewarded $omewhere down the road. Mabey not because
	of the degree itself (let's assume I'll finish), but by the
	application of what I learn.

	Steve_who_has_taken_the_first_step

	*Now, if I can score well on the GMAT*