Conference 7.286::digital

There is no policy on the subject.

Mail delivered to individuals at any company address belongs to the company
and can legally be opened by the company.

It's bad employee relations to do so, though!

/john

(Would you like to explain how the mail was sealed, and what the label
said?)

I can't find a comprehensive statement in the on-line copy of the Personnel
Policies and Procedures manual (which doesn't mean it isn't there).
However, I believe that if you do the following, it would put a mailroom
worker (or almost anyone else) in big trouble if they opened it:

1.  Place material to be mailed in an envelope.
2.  Seal it with a "Personnel Confidential" sticker.
3.  Place the sealed envelope in another envelope with no hint as to the
confidential nature of the contents.

Personnel records may only be revealed internally on what amounts to a
need-to-know basis, and even then only to a select set of people which
depends on the specific information (Personnel, Legal, your management,
Medical, etc.)  I don't recall seeing the mailroom listed as one of those
groups.  And I assume that something marked "Personnel Confidential" is
supposed to imply that it can only really be opened by the addressee. See
section 6.18 (Employee Privacy) and section 8.03 (Proprietary Information
Protection) of the PP&P manual for more details.

Note that this doesn't protect you from external disclosures because
of things like subpoenas and customs searches when sending international
mail.  So don't try to smuggle drugs through the interoffice mail.
				/AHM

    InterOffice mail that goes between countries can and will be opened
    by customs.

In the facility where I work Security opens outgoing US MAIL when it is
addressed to a non-Dec location and makes a decision as to whether or not
it is appropriate for the content to be sent.  A few months ago I interviewed
an external candidate.  In order to reimburse interview expenses he needed
to fill out an expense voucher.  Security decided it was inappropriate for
a non-employee to be receiving such material and refused to allow the blank
forms to be mailed to him.

I was unable to find anything in the P&P about this practice.  

    ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT IF YOU MAIL YOUR MASTER CARD BILL OR A LETTR
    TO YOUR MOTHER FROM YOUR FACILITY (WOBURN?) THAT SECURITY OPENS
    IT ?

    I'd guess that the inspection only happens when you are asking
    DEC to pay for it (that is, you did not put a stamp on, it's
    a DEC business envelope....).  Opening stamped mail not in a
    DEC envelope strikes me as a legally-questionable practice.
    
    			-John Bishop

Here's how it was explained to me about two years ago (the last time a
mail scare arose!) by someone in personnel:

 DECs internal mail system is a business resource, and has the goals of (a)
allowing DEC sites to communicate with each other, and (b) allowing DEC
personnel to communicate with customers. The DEC internal mail is not the USPS.
Dropping a letter (sealed and stamped) in a DEC internal mail pickup point is
not the same as dropping the same letter in a USPS mailbox. 

 By entrusting the letter to DEC (as the first step on a longer journey), you
are binding yourself to the rules and regulations of the DEC internal mail, in
the belief that DEC will (eventually) transfer the letter to the USPS. DEC may,
at their discretion, open _any_ letter or parcel consigned to the internal mail
system, to see whether it meets the corporate guidelines for internal mail
delivery. That is, is the letter or parcel a side effect of DEC doing business,
or is it a letter to your bookie? Remember, it says in the small print 
somewhere that you're not meant to use the company mail system for personal 
(non-work-related) stuff.

 Certain DEC sites (at the discretion of the local mail room) may choose to
deliver MAIL to the USPS on behalf of employees. Note the wording; the USPS
mail pickup from internal mail drops is an informal benefit, not a matter of
corporate policy. 

 My memory gets vague here, but I believe that there is a stated policy that
any mail which is "rejected" by the internal mail system will be returned to
the original sender with a note indicating the rejection. 

		Nigel

    
    Here at WMO, we have mail drops for "Interoffice Mail", and 
    "Outgoing Mail".  These are inside the building and are for company
    business ONLY.  Your MasterCard payment should not be put into the
    DEC mail system.  
    
    However, we also have USPS boxes at each entrance/exit for the
    convenience of the employees.   As I understand it,  these are
    protected by the same laws that apply to those good ol' red-white-and-
    blue mailboxes on the street corners.
    
    Don Montgomery

re .8:

>								and 
>    "Outgoing Mail".  These are inside the building and are for company
>    business ONLY.  Your MasterCard payment should not be put into the
>    DEC mail system.  
    
Currently I always pay my expenses this way, as DEC also pays the stamp
I don't see why not.

Dave.

    Some DEC facilities have a US mailbox in front (like MRO1, where
    I sued to work).  Now I work in HLO2, and walk to work.  There is
    no mailbox here, and I don't pass anywhere near one on my way in
    or out of here; in fact, the post office may well be one of the
    nearest mailboxes, and it isn't close to reasonable walking distance.
    So I''m glad that the mailroom passes on my masterplastic bills
    and other time-critical stamped US mail to to post office!  I can
    see where they could complain about it since they have to extract
    the US mail stuff from the corporate mail (I think you are supposed
    to put it into a different bin in our mailbox, but that usually
    doesn't seem to happen); maybe the post office should put a box
    out front?
    
    I never figured out how the post office decidesd where to put boxes
    anyhow, or which streets can have mail slots or mailboxes on the
    houses, and which equally-non-rural streets like mine (1/3 acre
    lots, normal housing development) have to have rural route boxes
    where kids steal the mail or strew it all over the street before
    I get home.  Anyone know how the decide these things?  Anyone know
    anyone who works for the post office?

    
    re .9	I'm reasonably certain (although I don't have the policy
    right in front of me) that "personal" mail is not to be put into
    the DEC mail system.  I have had things returned to me (when I worked
    in NRO), although it seemed random -- I had a rent check returned
    to me one month, while a whole load of so-called personal mail went
    through with no problem a month later.  I would say that it's pretty
    obvious that the company doesn't want to pay postage for employees'
    personal mail,  but what isn't so obvious is that the company is
    also paying people to sort and handle outgoing mail, and if a
    percentage of that outgoing mail is not company business, it means
    that DEC resources are being allocated to non-DEC business.  As
    a stockholder,  I wouldn't be real happy to hear that 20% (or whatever)
    of the company's expenses is being spent on employees' personal
    business.  It's similar to an employee using the DEC phone systems
    to conduct his/her personal business.
    
    It doesn't seem to be really enforced though, and that's just fine
    with me!
    
    dm

Here at LKG, all unstamped mail is returned to the sender.

Unless you attach a sticker on the front of an envelope (even a DEC envelope
addressed to a business) which says "This is DEC business, please stamp and
send out" the mailroom will return it to you.

Personal mail is supposed to be put directly into the "U.S. Mail" box at the
mailroom, unlike ZKO, where they are perfectly willing to pick up personal
STAMPED mail from the mailstops.

>RDGE40::KERRELL "sailing close to the wind"
>Currently I always pay my expenses this way, as DEC also pays the stamp
>I don't see why not.

If REO really considers Dave Kerrell's sending out all his expenses with DEC
paying for the stamps to be a valid employee benefit, then a cultural difference
between the U.S. and the U.K. is showing up.

/john

        re .-1
        
        If I go on a business trip for Digital, pay for the expenses
        with a credit card, I see no reason why Digital Should not
        post the payment on the credit card.
        
        q
        

>        If I go on a business trip for Digital, pay for the expenses
>        with a credit card, I see no reason why Digital Should not
>        post the payment on the credit card.

Only if there are *no* personal expenses on the credit card.

/john

>>        If I go on a business trip for Digital, pay for the expenses
>>        with a credit card, I see no reason why Digital Should not
>>        post the payment on the credit card.
>
>Only if there are *no* personal expenses on the credit card.

And in my case there are no personal expenses on the bill being paid.

Dave.

    If nothing else, it's risky to put your bill payments in the
    interoffice mail.  At another company, several of us were robbed
    by a member of the night cleaning crew, who stole the mail, opened
    it, kited checks, and cashed them.  
    
    You want inconvenience?  Well, the hassle of getting a personal
    mail item returned to you by the Digital mail room is as nothing
    compared with the hassle of explaining to: (1) the bank that the
    $1500 check you wrote was not written by you, and that you should
    get your money back, and (2) the insurance company that your whole-life
    policy should not be cancelled because your payment was stolen.
                                    

re .16:

In the UK it is quite safe providing the cheque is crossed and made
out to the payee.

'Crossing' a cheque means it must be paid into a bank account (not fool
proof but better than nothing).

If a bank decides to cashe the cheque I've crossed or accepts an altered
cheque then they are liable.

Dave.

    re: .12
    
    In the US, all Field employees have a Diners Club card available
    to them for use with business expenses (airline, rental car, hotel,
    etc.).  Since the card is in MY name, the bill comes to MY home,
    and I am expected to pay it.  So, after submitting my expenses,
    I receive a check from corporate to cover the Diners Club bill.
    
    FLAME ON
    Since I have to go to MY bank, deposit the check in MY checking
    account, write a check to Diners Club (and pay the per check service
    charges), then mail it, then I have no problem whatsoever in justifying
    the use of DEC's mail system, DEC envelopes and DEC's postage to
    mail the damn thing!
    FLAME OFF
    
    In our facility (Novi, MI, USA), we have an outgoing mail slot.
    I've used this many times in the past without any trouble.
    
    If the bean counters are so concerned about using the outgoing mail
    slot as tying up mail room resources, what about the time/effort
    expended on opening the mail, and sending it back - that time isn't
    free, either!
    
    	Stu
    
    

    re: .18  paying for Diner's Club
    
    I don't see why you have to bear any time or expenses personally.
    You could certainly take the reembursement check from DEC and send
    it to Diner's Club. You could have their bill sent to your work
    address. You could open, read, and process the bill on DEC's time.
    And you could certainly file an expense voucher for the cost of
    the postage, just as you do for the annual membership fee.
    
    I, personally, find it more convenient to handle much of this at
    home. And to "launder" the funds through my personal checking account.
    And to write just one check.

I think the upshot of this whole discussion is that there is no corporate
policy guaranteeing the delivery or privacy of personal mail sent through the
corporate interoffice mail system.  Some sites will deliver stamped mail to
the post office for you, but others won't.  Therefore, it pays to find out what
the site policy is before trying to send anything.

--PSW

  It scares me to think DEC has the right to open a stamped personal
letter deposited in a mail room (where U.S. and interoffice mail
go in the same slot) simply to avoid the expense of handling per-
sonal mail. If they want to avoid the minuscule expense of handling
stamped personal mail, they should make an educated guess of
whether it's personal without opening it.
  The Postal Circus is one of the few subjects that I have an urge
to flame about. The only way you can deal with them is to organize
a letter-writing campaign among your friends to the local post-
master and if that doesn't work, to your congressman. I doubt that
more than 10% of the DEC plants in New England have a public mail-
box within a half mile, and most of these are probably "minimum
service" boxes (one collection a day, five days a week). Many 
people don't have a secure way to send letters from home. So they
have three choices: mail from home (and risk having their mail
stolen, rained on, or blown away), go out of their way to find a
public mailbox, or mail at work. I think all DEC plants should
either provide a U.S. mail box (inside or on the grounds) or
allow occasional personal mail to be put in the interoffice mail
slot. 

    
    DEC mail is exactly that - DEC mail. If a DEC envelope is placed in
    the pick up box and it is not stamped, that implies it is for business
    purposes. If that same DEC envelope is obviously address to Aunty
    Em then DEC has the right, if not the obligation to refuse to pay
    for your postage. 
    
    In 13 years I have not had a personal envelope with postage attached
    opened or returned to me. It sometimes takes a while to get out
    into the USPS system but as long as it gets there who cares? If
    you are having any of your mail, personal or otherwise , tampered
    with don't b***h to every one else, just go straight to the mailroom
    supervisor or the facility manager with the proof in your hot little
    hand. A mail clerk is not a censor and DEC security is not the postal
    inspector but you have the obligation to realize that trying to
    mail your Christmas cards with DEC money is stealing.         
    

    DIGITAL's policy toward forwarding personal mail through the internal
    mail system is stated very clearly in the blue pages of the company
    phone book.
    
    "PERSONAL MAIL - Personal mail should not be forwarded through DIGITAL
    mailrooms. Mailroom personnel will not be responsible for delay or loss
    of such mail." 
    
    Some sites are more lenient than others. However, they all have this
    policy to fall back on. As for myself, I have no problem with dropping
    my personal mail in the USPS box at the building entrance.
    
    				Fred
     

    Re: .23
    
    That's nice that you have a USPS box at your building's entrance.
    We at ZK don't, but as was mentioned before, we are told that it
    is ok to put stamped personal mail in the collection boxes.  I
    feel that some people abuse this, though, by dumping fifty
    Christmas cards or wedding invitations in the boxes.  I've never
    had trouble with mail posted from ZK - if I get it there in time,
    it gets sent to the post office that afternoon.
    					Steve

	At MKO1 there is a slot in the mailroom door marked "Personal
	Mail" (for stamped mail of course). The other side of the slot
	is just an open cardboard box, and anyone can just reach over
	and pick up a piece of mail (which I did myself once,
	realizing on my way back to my office I had forgotten to
	include something in one envelope). Since it isn't an official
	USPS box, does Digital have the right to open mail dropped in
	it?
	
	Mike

    Federal law is pretty specific about who may use your own private
    mailbox.  NO ONE except the U.S. Post Office may drop anything into
    your private mailbox.  The reason for this law was to discourage
    Postal Service competitors (AirFreight, UPI, etc.) from using the
    boxes too.  There are also pretty strict laws on tampering with
    postal boxes.  I don't know, but I would imagine that these laws
    must apply to U.S. mail drops even if they are in private buildings.

    I've never been fortunate enough to work at a site where a U.S. mail
    drop was handy.  Since the only thing the DEC mail room does with
    U.S. Mail is give it to the post office, I can't see that adding
    personal mail to this load makes a difference.  This applies even
    during the Christmas rush and if the mail has to be shipped out
    of the building to another site (as it does here at VRO).  If someone
    from the mail room can prove that personal mail is an added burden,
    I'd like to know about it.

    Given that desks, DECmail, VAXmail and so on seem to be protected
    by rules of privacy at Digital, why should a stamped and sealed
    envelope from one person to another be any different?
    
    I have this thing about bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake - and
    this seems to be one of those instances...
    
    Gavin

>    Given that desks, DECmail, VAXmail and so on seem to be protected
>    by rules of privacy at Digital, why should a stamped and sealed
>    envelope from one person to another be any different?

Fortunately we've been able to establish that desks and computer mail may
contain personal items, because of the infinitesimal cost to the company
of allowing personal use of desk and computer resources.

However, anything in the paper mail at DEC can be assumed to be purely for
the company's business, since its cost is real.  I doubt that you'll ever
be able to convince someone to establish a policy permitting personal use
of company mail.

But DEC shouldn't open STAMPED personal mail without involving security,
personnel, AND the employee -- and only when a security problem is truly
suspected.

/john

    John, I had another thought on this matter over the wekend - we
    seem to be talking aboutthe cost to DEC of handling all this mail
    (and just how much is a pure guess both on the cost and the quantity
    handled) but DEC *gains* a lot on the number of emplyees who put
    in extra unpaid hours on a regular basis. I would have thought the
    two would offset each other to a large degree. That offsetting idea
    is all part of what makes DEC such a nice company - we all give
    something unofficially and we all gain something.
    
    Gavin