Conference 7.286::digital

The IRS rules are (and have been):

	Meals are deductible if you are out-of-town overnight.

/john

The DEC rule (last I checked) was that while traveling, you are expected to
pay for your lunch only if you are visiting a DEC site with a on site
cafeteria. 

Steve

re .-1

I don't believe that rule applies to overnight travel.  I think DEC will
pay for your lunch even if there is a DEC cafeteria.  After all, if I
were not out of town overnight, I might have brown-bagged it.

/john

    RE: .3
    
    But John, if you were out of town just for the day, you also might have
    brown-bagged it.  Why differentiate for overnight trips? 
    
    						Pat

    re .4 Maybe because no one would logically expect you to pack a
    lunch in your suit case?
    

Yes, Pat.  That's right.  When travelling, you are reimbursed for expenses
you would not have had or cannot control.

If it's not an overnight trip, you probably won't have to spend any more for
lunch than if you had not been travelling, unless you go out to lunch with
customers, in which case it becomes a business lunch as opposed to a personal
meal.  If it's not an overnight trip, you could go home for lunch or you could
bring a brown bag to work.

If it is an overnight trip, brown bagging is not considered possible, and
lunch is paid.

This is the Corporate expense policy, and aligns with the IRS policy, as far
as I know.  If your manager won't pay for lunches when you're out of town
and you've fulfilled the IRS requirements, be sure to keep track of it and
take it as an "unreimbursed employee expense."  And find a new manager.

/john

P.S.:  In Germany, if the facility you work in doesn't have a cafeteria, DEC
must provide you a daily lunch subsidy to make you socially equal to others.

    ...yes, but it is only DM 1,50 (about 75 cents). Even in Germany
    it's hard to get a lunch for that...
    

Well, I did say that it was a subsidy to make you "socially equal" -- not that
you got a free lunch.  (Since you don't get a free lunch in the cafeteria.)

Looks like about a 15-30% subsidy, depending on how much and where you eat.

/john

    Iit's rather like a 1-15% subsidy. Hard to get a meal for less than
    10 DM these days (unless, of course, you choose to go to MacDonald's!)

    re: .10
    
    What's the Corporate Organizational Chart?
        John Sauter

    re .10
    In the memo I saw about this, cost center managers are now also going
    to be receiving a regular report, something along the lines of:
    
                                         Lowest        
    Employee     Dates                  Logical      Paid
    Name        of Travel    Routing    Airfare    Airfare    Difference
    -------    ----------    -------    -------    -------    ----------
    <name>     12/10-12/14   BOS-ORD     $250       $275         $25
    
    or something to that effect.  At the bottom of the sample report, the
    "difference" figure is highlighted so that the cc manager can be aware
    of how much money he/she "lost".
    
    Jon
    don't_shoot_the_messenger_I_don't_make_the_news_I_only_report_it

    
    
      What would be ***REALLY***  useful would be a report that said
    
    date     route     Fare paid    Fare_if_approved    Fare_if_approved
                                    7 days before trip   30 days before trip
      
    1/3/91   bos-London  $1100          $800                 $450
    
      For trips which could have been planned in advance, Dec wastes 
    a **LOT** of money by making approval so cumbersome and uncertain
    that tickets can't be bought until the last minute.  This is 
    especially true for US-International trips where VP approval 
    must be sought.
    
    

Note that the policy now specifically states that frequent flier bonuses
are to be used to pay for corporate travel.

RE:.10 and the many memos I have received on this issue

Am I the only one who thinks that the TAF (Travel Authorization Form) does not
work??

What do I mean? Well for one thing, the form appears to have started out as
a cash advance form.  This all well and good but, since I have a corporate
card because I have more than 2 business related expenses, I am expected to
use the card for tickets, etc.  If that is the case, how do I fill out the
form? I don't need a cash advance.

Another thing, which boxes do I fill out and which boxes are filled out by the
"approver"?  There is no hint on the form.

Personal opinion, someone said "People need to authorize travel."  Then some-
one said "Let's use the cash advance form, it does almost the same thing."
NO ONE LOOKED AT THE COST IN TME AND CONFUSION THIS WILL CAUSE!!  I am also to
the point of sending in a DELTA suggestion that we develop a form that is
strictly an authorization form if I could only figure out how much time and
energy would be saved :-)


Lee who_is_getting_tired_of_people_not_thinking_about_the_users_before_acting

    RE: .15
    
    The policy states " Employees are *encouraged* to use..."
    (my emphasis), not "Employees *are* to use....."
    on the frequent flier miles.
    
    pat

    I will not have a corporate credit card.  If I book a flight 4-8 weeks
    in advance to save the company money, I get the bill that I am have to
    pay before the travel takes place and I can get my money back.  I am
    very willing to help to do the right thing to help save the company
    money, but I am not going to be responsible for paying a corporate
    credit card bill out of my own pocket and then wait possibly a month to
    take the trip and get reimbursed!

    I especially like the part about "employees are ENCOURAGED to use
    frequent flier bonuses. Makes you wonder how long it'll be before those
    words are replaced by "employees MUST use..."
    
    Ken

   And where does the line get drawn between frequent flier mile accrued as a
   result of travel incurred at the employees own expense?
   
   q
   

And to help save the company more money, you fly on your own time
(Sunday's, after hours).  My husband who used to work for Digital
said that when they started making him use his frequent flyer
miles for business trips, that's when he'd start travelling
during "company" time.  Maybe it's the wrong attitude, but he felt
the frequent flyer miles made up for the time he spent on his 
own personal time on company business.  

Cheryl

Also, the employee is "technically" responsible for paying the taxes on the
"benefit" of the frequent flyer award.  That is IF you are a member of one
of or more frequent flyer programs.

Only that portion which is attributed to business mileage.

There is no tax on the frequent flier bonuses received for personally paid
travel.

    
    This should be fun with more and more airlines becoming unstable and
    therefore unreliable. Those of us in our group who travel more than 1-2
    a year refuse to fly certain airlines because of their "tendency" to
    strand their customers. And these are the airlines that are attempting
    to use very low rates as bait. I'll cancel a trip before putting my
    life in their hands...
    
    This is getting to the point where you'd like we work for Uncle Sam.
    Just wait until we start getting fixed per diems...
    
    -Ray
    
    
    

>    This is getting to the point where you'd like we work for Uncle Sam.
>    Just wait until we start getting fixed per diems...

I was a government employee when fixed per diems started.  Since my expenses
were always low (I didn't pad the numbers) I started making a profit every
trip.  And the government saved money, too.  Worked out great, and was good for
my morale. 

	When I worked with (not for) the government, the per diem (which was
supposed to be used to cover *everything* - including hotel) didn't begin to
cover a night's lodging in either Boston or Washington D.C.  Those of us who
were on "reasonable & customary" charges often sprung for meals, rented the
cars, and did all the tipping for the govt folks we were travelling with so 
they didn't end up with huge out-of-pocket expenses.  One advantage was that
I learned a lot of good, inexpensive places to eat in D.C.

						--D

    I'd prefer per diem, if the amount is reasonable. Think of the savings
    in travel claim processing...
    
    In fact, per diem is the rule almost everywhere *except* US (and many
    subsidiaries of US companies in Europe). Even DEc pays per diem for
    domestic travel in some European countries.
    
    A typical per diem for, say, a German company, for someone traveling to
    France, would be around US$ 70 per day, + hotel (+ any actual travel
    expenses like taxis, car rentals etc. the per diem is just for meals
    etc).
    

>    A typical per diem for, say, a German company, for someone traveling to
>    France, would be around US$ 70 per day, + hotel (+ any actual travel
>    expenses like taxis, car rentals etc.) the per diem is just for meals etc).

That's not per diem, then.  Per diem, in the U.S., means a daily allowance
for _all_ expenses except the long-distance travel getting to and from the
distant point.

You've basically described the U.S. travel policy.  You claim your hotel and
actual expenses, like taxis, car rentals, etc.

You also claim your meals, up to what you actually spend, and within the limits
(which are a lot less than $70/day -- that's really too much for just meals!).
You are not required to provide receipts for meals unless a single meal is
over $25 (IRS regulation).

What's the "etc." that's covered in the German per diem?

/john

re Note 164.28 by COVERT::COVERT:

> >    A typical per diem for, say, a German company, for someone traveling to
> >    France, would be around US$ 70 per day, + hotel (+ any actual travel
> >    expenses like taxis, car rentals etc.) the per diem is just for meals etc).
> 
> That's not per diem, then.  Per diem, in the U.S., means a daily allowance
> for _all_ expenses except the long-distance travel getting to and from the
> distant point.

        Well, perhaps there are several kinds of per diem in the U.S.

        When I worked for the Mitre Corporation, a captive government
        contractor, (15 years ago), we had a per diem meal
        allowance, but other expenses were actual (subject to some
        limits similar to current Digital policy).

        Bob

    re .28: Maybe a linguistic problem... anyway, it's common in Europe to
    have a per diem or whatever you call it (Tagegeld), and it's common
    that this is only for meals etc. where the etc. is any other 'personal'
    expenses (drinks, personal entertainment, any fares associated with
    that personal entertainment, etc. etc.). Actual business-related travel
    expenses are separate (hotel, taxis for business travel etc.). There's
    usually also a rule that a certain percentage is deducted from the
    'personal' per diem if the hotel price includes breakfast.
    
    The background is usually the tax system ('IRS rules') in a specific
    country; whatever the employer can deduct as a business expense without
    receipts is usually taken as the per diem amount. At least in the
    contries I know reasonably well (Scandinavia and Germany) the amounts
    are split in meals and other personal expenses, hotels, and actual
    fares. There's usually a similar maximum on the hotel, but I know of no
    companies that pay a hotel per diem (mainly because, at least in
    Germany, those rates are ridiculously low and it's mostly not possible
    to get a hotel for that amount, and consequently you need the receipt
    to claim the actual amount (which obviously is tac deductible to the
    employer).
    

    The per diem systems that I've heard of are of two flavours
    
    	1) fixed amount worldwide plus hotel plus car hire
    
    	2) per-city amount including hotel and car hire
    
    1 is FAR easier and cheaper to administrate. 2 requires a list that
    needs maintenance.
    
    	- andy

    To get back to the main note, has anyone heard any reliable information
    regarding a change to make Plan B more attractive?  I've heard that
    they are going to raise the base amount of Plan B to anywhere from $350
    to $450/month, and also raise the personal use amount for Plan A to $50
    per month.  We heard these changes may come as early as January
    (getting kind of late for that) or February.
    
    Any new news??
    
    
    marti

    
    >>  and also raise the personal use amount for Plan A to $50
    >>  per month.
            -----
    
    Sorry, no concrete info on plan changes, but I hope you meant "week" or
    I've been making a lot of donations to DEC these last few years.  ;-)
    
    

    RE: .32-
    
    	The car plan(s) are discussed lately in 1664.*, and the rumor
    of a change in Feb. is mentioned, sans $ specifics.
    
    	IMHO, it's long overdue. We determined here that plan A has been
    $30/week since '86 and plan B increased to $200/month around '89 after
    the "great California uprising" over the elimination of plan A for
    many, which was ultimately reversed.
    
    	Something's rumbling, and you can bet it's not the Gravy Train...
    
    Phil

RE:         <<< Note 164.34 by PTOECA::MCELWEE "Opponent of Oppression" >>>
    
>    	IMHO, it's long overdue. We determined here that plan A has been
>    $30/week since '86 and plan B increased to $200/month around '89 after
>    the "great California uprising" over the elimination of plan A for
>    many, which was ultimately reversed.
    
At least for us, Plan A was $20 a week in '87.  It was raised to $30
about 2 years later.

John

    I goofed - I meant to post note 32 in 1664, was in a hurry, and 
    typed 164 instead - at least expenses and car plan are somewhat
    related.  Also, yes, I meant $50 a week.  
    
    I think I'd better just read the notes.
    
    Thanks for your responses anyway.
    
    marti

I'm Sorry,

If we are expected to drive these cars for a longer time, the
cost should be reduced after 60,000 miles to 10 bucks a week!

As it is I end up writing digital a check at least 40 of the 52
weeks per year.  Wheres the benifit! (P.S.  I try not to put many personal
miles on the vehicle, especially since I own one that all ready has
insurance, and needs to be run to blow the carbon out)

- Mike

At the Mid-Year Business review today I asked about changes under 
consideration for the car plans. Tom Colatosti, Eastern States VP, stated that 
although some unapproved proposals have leaked out, there are no plans to 
change the car plans for the remainder of the fiscal year.


Regards,

Jim

Subj:	IMPORTANT - NEW TRAVEL POLICIES


[forwards deleted]



                              IMPORTANT NOTICE


Due to budget constraints, the following corporate policies are announced
regarding employees traveling on official business.  The policies are 
effective immediately.

TRANSPORTATION

    Hitch-hiking in lieu of commercial transportation is strongly encouraged. 
    Luminescent safety vests will be issued to all employees prior to their 
    departure on company business trips.  Bus transportation will be used 
    wherever possible.  Airline tickets will only be authorized for purchase 
    in extreme circumstances and the lowest fares will be used.  If, for 
    example, a meeting is scheduled in Seattle, but a lower fare can be 
    obtained by traveling to Detroit, then travel to Detroit will be 
    substituted for travel to Seattle.

LODGING

    All employees are encouraged to stay with relatives or friends while on 
    company business.  If weather permits, public areas such as parks and 
    parking lots should be used as temporary lodging.  Bridges may provide 
    shelter in periods of inclement weather.

MEALS

    Expenditures for meals will be limited to an absolute minimum.  It should 
    be noted that certain grocery chains, such as General Nutrition Centers 
    and Piggly Wiggly stores often provide free samples of promotional items.  
    Entire meals may often be obtained in this manner.  Travelers should also 
    become familiar with indigenous roots, berries and other protein sources 
    available at their destination.  If a restaurant must be utilized, 
    travelers should seek establishments offering "all you can eat" salad 
    bars.  This will be especially cost effective for employees traveling 
    together, as a single plate can be used to feed an entire group.  
    Employees are also encouraged to bring their own food while on company 
    business.  Cans of tuna fish, spam, pork-n-beans and beef-a-roni can be 
    conveniently consumed at your leisure without the unnecessary bother of 
    heating or other costly preparation.

ENTERTAINMENT 
    
    Entertainment while on travel is strictly discouraged.  If such 
    extravagances are required on customer contacts, the customer should be 
    encouraged to "pick up the tab."  Such action will save the company money 
    and convince the customer that we are concerned about spending money on 
    providing a good product, not on useless frivolities.  The hospitality 
    provided to customers who visit our facilities should also be tasteful, 
    yet cost effective.  In lieu of extravagant dinners, a picnic bench will 
    be placed in the parking lot next to the dumpster and garden hose will be 
    made available so that liquid refreshment can be provided for our quests.

MISCELLANEOUS 

    All employees are encouraged to employ innovative techniques in our team 
    effort to save corporate dollars.  One enterprising individual has 
    already suggested that money could be raised during airport layover 
    periods which could be used to defray travel costs.  In support of this 
    idea, "red caps" will be issued to all employees prior to departure so 
    that they may earn tips for helping other travelers with their luggage 
    during such periods.  Small plastic roses will also be made available to 
    employees so that sales may be made as time permits.

    .39 
    		Very funny ... same as note 2197.0 this conference 4-Nov-92
    
    		Guess it was time this surfaced again ....