Conference 7.286::digital

    I hope that your case is an anomaly not the norm.  I had no trouble
    in reapplying for a second mortgage line of credit after I paid
    off the second mortgage (which I originally got from them five years
    ago, also without hassle).  Granted that my case may have been easier
    to handle since this wasn't the first time I did business with them.
    The couple of times I called them about the application I didn't
    have any problems either.
    
  --Simon
    

	My worst problem with DCU has been getting my EASY CASH card to work
consistently on the PLUS system here in Atlanta, even after they said the
problems were over. They never give any straight answers if I call.

	Thank heavens grocery stores still cash checks!

    The DCU First Mortgage program is a joke.  They'll make an appointment
    to meet you in September to talk about a mortgage which may come
    by December.  Maybe it's out to October by now!  And finding _that_
    much took many calls, including some  l o o n n g g g times on hold
    trying to get somebody there to talk!  I gave up and am dealing
    with Coolidge Bank...
    
    I don't know about EasyCash.  They never offered me one after I
    opened a share draft account.  And there aren't a whole lot of machines
    around, though my other bank's card works in VEC machines.  All
    told, it's not the most professional bank, but their rates still
    seem a bit better than commercial banks & S&Ls.

    I think the DCU is great.  They have great rates and great people.
    I would recommend the credit union to everyone.  But,
    
    I have had both bad experiences . . .
    
    The first mortgage program seems to be oversubscribed.  My appointment
    is months out AND they will not guarantee that they will even write
    me a mortgage if I qualify (my house is in New Hampshire).  I am
    told that I should feel lucky that I was given an appointment.
    
    The Easy Cash machine in MK2 was recently replaced.  It is now down
    more than it is up.  Good fix, eh?
    
    Other than that, as I said, I think the DCU is great.  Their branch
    office people are the best.  They are friendly and helpful.  My auto
    loan was set-up easily and quickly.  The rates are the best around.
    
    Roger 

    Easy Cash has a serious bug.  They will not let you pick your password.
    This has to be the most ridiculous policy I've ever heard.
    
    I went into the office one day to see if I could get my password
    changed.  The clerk said sure, took my account information and said
    "I'll be back in a minute".  I said tht you forgot to ask me which
    password I wanted.  She replied " Oh, the computer doesn't let you
    pick a password, just change it (assigned by algorithm).  I asked
    if they would mind if I changed it 10,000 times or so until the
    correct number came up.
    
    I own several inches worth of credit cards and money machine cards
    each of which (all applicable) let you pick the password.  If they
    were all different, how would I ever remember them without writing
    down the passwords and keeping them in my wallet with my cards.
    
    So, bottom line.  The DCU Easy Cash card is useles and hence does
    not occupy a position in my wallet.
    
    Jim Pappas

    I agree with .5, although I do use it (I just remember a second
    pw).  While we're on passwords, how about the stock people who a
    few years ago sent out a reminder through the mail saying what your
    password was!
    
    But on the subject:  The worst problem I have had with DCU is that
    in the past the dial-in line is often not working.  I hope that
    improves now that they will no longer accept verbal requests for
    balances etc.
    
    Burns
    

    Easy cash cards are a joke.  It took almost 3 months to get my first
    one, (and I too am miffed that they "assing" me a password), and
    then one day the ATM's just stopped accepting my password.  Of course
    it was the weekend, and so I was stuck.  Monday morning a teller
    told me they switched from yellow cards to red ones.  Nice of them
    to let ME know!  Well, obviously that took another couple of months
    during which I was out this convenience, (necessity!).  
    
    The tellers are all nice and helpful, but I agree that the behind
    the scenes folks are arrogant.  They've got a large captive audience
    and I doubt they're much concerned about any ONE client.  I applied
    for a car loan that took them close to three weeks to deny!
    
    Consequently, I've stopped payroll deduction and I'm cancelling
    my membership.   Their rates aren't THAT great.
    
    Sandy
    

    I applied for a cash card and it took them 6 months before they
    sent it to me.  I lot times I like to get cash out of the machines
    at Parker Street. 50 % of the time the machines are down.  Luckly
    there is a 800 number that you can call to find the other machines
    that you have access too.  The only problem is that you have to
    pay $0.75 per transaction.  Another problem is that they don't offer
    a visa or mastercard like the regular banks.
    
    

    "Easy touch" is a joke.  It is down so often that I have long since
    stopped using it.
    
    Another complaint is that occasionally my paycheck deductions change
    for no good reason.  For example, when I alter the deductions for one
    of my savings accounts, or add a new account, it usually takes them 2
    weeks to get the "yellow card's" instructions straight.  The first week
    of a yellow card order, some deduction is nearly always screwed up ---
    IRA, or Xmas club, etc.  It takes one more week for everything to be
    correct.  Similar things occur when a car loan kicks in.
    
    But rates and the personal touches make DCU an overall definite win.

    I don't find the service equal to or competitive with commercial
    banks.
    
    There are long lines at the teller windows - compounded by the
    fact that the tellers have to interrupt their window service
    in order to handle telephone inquiries.   There seems to be no
    plan to provide more/better teller service during peak hours.
    
    The ATM machine is out of service more than it is up - particularly
    frustrating when you are leaving on Friday afternoon.  The problem
    seems to get worse - not better.
    
    Loan interest rates are necessarily better.
    
    I have encountered surliness when trying to get a simple answer.

    No problems for me.  I use the cash card infrequently but the new
    drive up facility seems to provide a lot of up-time.  I've found
    the tellers to be busy but always pleasant.  When the line is long
    I try to come back later.
    
    	Rick 
    
    It's immeasurably better than pre-DCU!!
    

    Let me add two votes to the anti-EASYcash (boy is that a misnomer)
    sentiment. Overall I have been very happy with DCU, although I've
    never had a loan with them. But I am also one of the lucky ones
    who has an office in the building where I work. I also find the
    phone system very useful, when it's up.
    
    My biggest complaint is the cash machines. My wife joined DEC in
    February and I convinced her to join the DCU and give up her other
    bank accounts. I've been paying for it ever since. We live in Maynard
    and if I had .75 for everytime I've gone to the "new" machine and
    found it down (if fact I usually end up paying .75 plus gas and
    time after obtaining this wonderful information), I'd be much richer.
    Not to mention the grief I get from my wife for convincing her to
    give up her other card.
    
    A few other nits....
    
    I wish to hell they'd put the ATM back in the Mill. 
    
    Has anyone else wondered who the "brilliant" engineer was who put
    the ATM in the new office at Parkerr St.
    
    		Have you tried... using it on a sunny day? (you can't
    				  see the screen until you get out
    				  of your car to block the sun)
    
    			      ... using it on a rainy day? (no cover)
    
    			      ... getting your car close enough to use
    				  it comfortably? (not set out from
    				  side of the building)
    
    I too hate the fact that I couldn't change my password.
    
    							Mark
    

In the Mill DCU Branch there is a sign that says something to the effect:

	"If you can suggest how we can provide better service, please
	 call the DCU Communications Manager at DTN 223-6735"

I think DCU has gotten too big too fast. I am still a loyal shareholder and
when I get as disgruntled as some of the previous people, I plan to call the
"Communications Manager" (whoever that may be) and let her know. I suggest
that some of you do the same.....

jim

    Why don't you tell her to read this topic?

Is there a CONFERENCE specifically dedicated to DCU?

There used to be one for the SAVE program, and employee purchase program, etc.

    Re: .13 and .14 ---> why do you assume it is a "her"?
    
    GLK

    
    ....because it was a "she" in the orignal DCU staff.
    

        The DCU is a separate entity from Digital.  They are not
        part of Digital like (for example) Personnel or Security.
        They do not have access to EasyNet; thus, they cannot "read
        this topic".
        
        I have thought about starting a DCU conference.  However, it
        would take some sort of formal agreement between the DCU and
        Digital (or at least it would if the conference were to be of
        any value).  I haven't had time to pursue this. 
        
        In the meantime, call the "communications manager" listed
        in a previous reply.  There are actually two such people,
        a male and a female.  (I'll check the phone number and
        get their names tomorrow when I get in the office.)
                                                       
Jim Stratton (married to a DCU employee)
        

        Call the DCU Communications Department at (DTN) 223-6735
        (or, externally, 617-493-6735).  Talk to either Donna Lane
        Nelson or John Tilley.

    I hate to say it, but things have gotten worse instead of better.
    I did talk to Donna Lane Nelson (I have also talked to John Tilley)
    and she was very pleasant, and very helpful, but I am getting the
    impression that there are management problems there that are out
    of their control. I don't want to go into the gory details, but
    I am convinced that the people there are totally incompetent, and
    I know I could have gotten much better service elsewhere for less
    money. I, for one, intend to make some noise about this situation,
    because I don't see why they should be operating under the auspices
    of providing a service to Digital employees when we can get better
    service from regular commercial banks.
    
    Does anyone out there know anything about how the DCU board of
    directors operates, or how to contact the board members?
    

re. -1

>    Does anyone out there know anything about how the DCU board of
>    directors operates, or how to contact the board members?
    
	We (DCU customers) elect the board members.  In fact it's been
    some time since the last election (I think?).  You may even want to
    run for the position yourself, sounds like you have some good ideas
    on how to streamline things there.  At least find out who will be
    running and vote.

						-DAV0

    A friend (who's coming back to DEC!) once closed her DCU account.
    She said she was told "you can't open this again."  She said fine,
    assuming she could open another one.  No.  They use some antiquated
    bank program that does not allow you to reuse account numbers. 
    DCU uses our badges as account numbers.  DCU would not allow her
    to have an account, because they couldn't come up with a way to
    get around this (including generating a "false" badge number)! 
    She was rather upset, but couldn't get anywhere with them at the
    time.  BEWARE!
    

    
    
    The loan process at the DCU is the Pits!  A year ago I applied for
    a loan for a used auto, asking for about $2,500.  I naturally used
    my wife as a co-applicant, as she was working at the time.  Well,
    to make a long story short, I had to open an account for her at
    the DCU or otherwise they couldn't use her as a reference.  Also,
    after bringing in the signed application (Karen and I both signed
    it at home) they said her signature couldn't be used unless it was
    notarized!  I explained that I had signed my section at home as
    well, and was told that I was a DCU member, so mine didn't need
    to be notarized.  I then explained that SHE too was a member of
    the DCU.  The loan officer just stared at me while her brain tried
    to figure out why Karen's signature had to be notarized if she was
    indeed a DCU member.  Then I was told that since she was not an
    employee it had to be notarized...  Finally after a month the loan
    was approved.  
    
    The other extreme.  I traded in the used car 2 months ago and bought
    a new Dodge.  I was approved (myself as the only applicant) in less
    than two hours, and drove the car home the next night.

brian 

	What was the difference in the loan rate between DCU and the Car
    Dealer ?

    I had no problem at all with my new car loan.  My wife is not a
    Digital employee.  But, we do have a joint checking ("sharedraft")
    account with them.  Our loan was approved within two hours.
    
    The new car rate for 3yrs. with 20% down is 9%.  The Toyota dealer
    was offerring 12.5.
    
    Yes, it is worth it.
    
    Roger

    One way to change things...CHANGE the BOD!  Next time the vote comes
    up, vote out the encumbents, unless you KNOW they're doing a good
    job!
    
    Did any of you read the candidate summaries the last time?  Name
    the one who did not even write their OWN SUMMARY this time.  I was
    apalled, and didn't vote for the person, even though they've been
    around since the beginning.  Sounds like mgmt is getting a little
    "dusty". 
                                      
    If you're so sure of yourself that you get someone else to write
    your resume/summary, you've been around too long in my opinion.
    I wrote a letter expressing the above, and got no response.  (Didn't
    expect any.)  Someday I'm going to drop by in person.
    

    Just to bring things up to date, I have finally gotten my loan
    approved (it only took 3 months), after repeated hassles and delays
    which were definitely caused by incompetent handling of the application
    by DCU. I did talk to members of the BOD, as well as the Federal
    Credit Union Administration. I currently have a complaint before
    the Supervisory Committee of the Credit Union, which is supposed
    to represent the members when they have problems.
    
    I just want to warn anyone who may have to deal with the first mortgage
    department that they will not treat you with the consideration you
    would expect as a Digital employee, and you are probably better
    off going to a commercial outfit in terms of the quality of service,
    time, and overall cost. I have sat in the lobby and listened to them
    using the same stall tactics on everyone else that they used on me,
    and unless you have a desire for self-torture I would recommend
    doing business elsewhere.
    
    Also, I have learned that federal laws require the disclosure of
    information about the loan process in the form of HUD publications
    which are supposed to help you in comparing terms between different
    loan agencies. I was never given this information, and if you do
    decide to torture yourself, you should insist that it be provided
    to you.
                                                                      
    As a last note, I would just like to add that I really hope no one
    else from Digital (or from anywhere, for that matter) has to go
    through what I did. I realize that the Credit Union provides good
    service in many other respects, and I don't know why they have slipped
    on this particular function, but I do intend to follow up with my
    complaints and try to see that things are changed.

    
    I'm really suprised that no one has mentioned the 'biggie'.  DCU
    allows our checks to be magnetically encoded by the PAYEE.  I've
    had several cases where the PAYEE encoded this information incorrectly
    and DCU paid the wrong amount for the check.
    Bottom line is that I must verify that each check on the return
    statement is paid the right amount.  I've had unpayment and
    overpayment.Both cause extreme hassel between the PAYEE, me and
    DCU.  I've had many  conversations with DCU personel who claim that
    all banks do it this way.  One of the offending PAYEEs, Citibank,
    claims that they encode the wrong amount a lot(!), but most banks
    wont pay the amount as the written amount is verified.
    The extreme worry is that after the checking acount is dried up
    by paying the wrong amount, they leap frog through your savings
    acounts to make up the difference, then to your reseve accounts.....
    oh what fun they have!
    I've considered going back to real money.
    ed badger
    

re .28, Payee encoding the checks.

Of course the Payee encodes the checks!  That's how the whole nationwide
check clearing system works.  The amount must be on the check when it
enters the system.  It is put on no later than the first bank it reaches,
sometimes it's even put on in the accounts-receivable division of the
company to whom you've sent the check.

I have had four mis-encoded checks (that were not caught before getting
deducted from my account) in the past twenty years.  Only two of them
were serious enough that I really needed to do anything about it; once
it was off a nickel and I had Shawmut straighten it out (which they did
by handing me a nickel!) and once I decided the three cents wasn't worth
my time to even think about.

/john

    I had a check missencoded a few months ago: a check sent to the
    firm I lease my car from was misscoded in the payees favor by $20,
    and I found out because I got a letter from them telling me I had
    overpaid my account - before I got the cleared check back from the
    bank.
    
    It wasn't worth worrying about (other than the concern that nobody
    at my bank apparently looked at what I had written on the check),
    since my invoice for the following month reflected the "overpayment".
    
    Yes - it is the way the system works, and it stinks!
    
    /. Ian .\

    I have no problem with the payee encoding the check, John (.29),
    my problem is with DCU paying the encoded amount instead of the
    amount *I* have specified on the check.  Some banks do take the
    extra step of checking.
    Take two real live cases.  I write a $20 check to Mobil.  They cash
    it for $200.  My next check bounce.  No problem?  take to the people
    who got bounced checks!
    I write a $4832 check to citibank.  They cash it for $48.32.  Charge
    me $80 extra interest on account.  No problems, just fustrations
    getting it straighten out.
    If I write the amount on the check, thats how mcuh I want payed!
    ed badger
    (According to DCU this problem happens a lot! so don't sound too
    sumg, it will happen to you if you use DCU)
    

    It may indeed happen a lot, but it only seems to happen to other
    people.  I've been verifying each entry on my checking account
    statement against my personal records since before DCU existed,
    and I've only found one check miscoded.  The miscoding was by one
    cent, so I didn't complain.  I did, however, change my style of
    writing the amount in a check, to prevent it from happening again.
        John Sauter

    John, I am very courious on how you changed your style of writing
    checks to prevent it from happening. please explain.
    somehow 4832.00 in the little box, and four thousand eight hundred
    thirty two dollars on the line didn't prevent the encoding of $48.32.
    I am happy for all those who don't run into this problem, but I
    sence that
    like death, miscoding will get you too, someday.
    ed badger
    

    re: .29
    
    Your payee's bank makes the MICR encoding of the amount at the bottom
    of the check.
    
    But DCU checks seem to have this problem (more than others), why?
    
    A clearing house member has the right to "fail" an item within 72
    hours of presentation.  The most common "fail" is insufficient funds.
    But there are other reasons why a bank could fail a check: a question
    about the signature, the account is frozen because of court order,
    and so forth.  The clearing house systems got dozens and dozens
    of codes for failing.
    
    One code is "amount verification": namely that the written and encoded
    amounts do not match.  The new amount is encoded on a strip of paper
    taped to the bottom of the check.  The old amount is credited and
    the new amount is debited.  It's transactions like this that make
    banks want to no clear checks for _days_.  (Look through your old
    checks for ones with a strip taped on the bottom...)
    
    Of course, this can only be done by institution which actually verifies
    the amounts...

    re: .33--I can't show it accurately on a character-cell device,
    but I think I can describe what I did.  I used to write the amount
    as $99 followed by superscripted, underlined, number of cents.
    This makes the number of cents hard to read, even though it is clear
    where to find the decimal point.  I have changed to writing the
    amount as $99.99, thus giving larger digits for the cents.  The
    spelled-out amount was, and still is, written as "... and 99/100"
    so a reader who can't be sure where the decimal point is in the
    digital amount can get the information from the spelled-out amount.
    
    re: .34--I have seen the piece of paper attached to the bottom of
    some of my checks, but not recently.  I have never looked under
    it to discover if the amount was changed.  I always assumed that
    it was attached because the original check did not read through
    the MICR reader for some reason.
        John Sauter

    I have looked under the little strip on white paper taped (really
    glued) over an original encoded amount, and have ALWAYS found that
    the amount underneath was the correct amount also.
    
     I think maybe the DCU might be an isolated case, as I have been
    using a checking account for about 12 years now, and have NEVER had
    a problem..and I check all my checks each month. I bank with BayBank
    and they have never had this problem to my knowledge (but I am sure
    there is someone out there just waiting to prove me wrong :-)...)
    
    	- Gale

	My friend at DCU says when you write the check to someone, it's
the payee's Bank which puts the little mag stripe on the the bottom, NOT
the DCU.  As it's basically a manual process, accidents will happen.
After that little stipe is put on the check, nobody sees the check again
except a machine which reads the stripe (unless there's a question about
the check).

	DCU pays the checks by responding to a Mag Tape which is sent
daily by the FED (30k checks nightly, I'm told).  The actual check won't
arrive until anywhere from a day to 3 weeks later.  So, in essence, the
DCU is re-paying the FED for the amount your payee's bank demanded from 
the FED.  All these amounts are moved by Computer.

	The only Human interface in the process is the poor clerk who has
just a second or two to read the amount on the face of the check and then
encode the stripe at the bottom of the check.  That clerk belongs to the
PAYEE's bank, NOT the DCU.

	Hope that helps.  I must admit, I got quite the education when I 
called to give my friend at DCU some grief!  :-)

For everyone who likes to gives institutions like banks grief (and I love it),
I've taken to writing checks like a friend suggested, namely reducing all
fractions as we were taught in grade school.  So, when I write a check for
21.64, I write in words "twenty one and 16/25...".  As far as I can tell it's
perfectly legitimate!

On a different subject, how many people have transferred money from your account
into another employee's account?  When I last did it (about a year ago), I was
handed a statement for the person's account to which the money was transferred!
As the fates would have it, this was the same person who like to reduce to the
least common denominator.  So, when I told him that the DCU had just given me
his balance...

He walked up to a window and told a teller, "here's a dollar, I'd like to know
what YOUR balance is!".  After she recovered from this, he asked why DCU has a
policy of giving out HIS balance to anyone who wants to put some money into his
account!  Eventually, he was told that this was not the correct procedure and
that his statement should have been placed in a sealed envelope before giving it
to me.  But what prevents me from then opening it?

Any updates on the current procedures?

-mark

    this trick is not even an [purely] American one: a couple of years
    ago a London newspaper created a political scandal by paying a small
    sum into a politicians account and getting supposedly confidential
    data as a result.
    
    The only real answer is to keep all your money in a biscuit tin
    under your bed :-)
    
    /. Ian .\

I deposited some money in my brother's DCU account. I asked the teller what the 
balance was. She said I wasn't named as a joint owner of the account, so she 
couldn't tell me. She then proceeded to give me my brother's deposit receipt in 
an UNSEALED envelope! In months past, when a deposit such as this was made, the 
receipt was sent to the account owner via U.S. Mail...

Jim

    I have the following story to tell...
    
    As it happens my landlord is also a fellow DEC employee. Recently
    I handed him my rent, and he asked me to deposit it in his DCU account
    (as I was going to DCU for myself).
    
    I duly paid it in and was handed the receipt, folded once and fastened
    with a single staple... neat! (they did ask me if I would like them
    to mail it to him...)
    
    Incidentally I thought the idea of a credit union was, in effect,
    that we, the account holders, are in effect the owners. In which
    case if we don't like the service perhaps we should get it changed?
    
    /. Ian .\

    I've been a member of DCU since it began and haven't had any of
    the aforementioned problems. I did get handed the balance for a
    friend's account when I deposited money into his account, which
    did boggle my mind, but...
    
    (1) I've noticed a few times (easily less than a half dozen) when
    the amount paid on a check was incorrect, but usually on the order
    of pennies. Since it was so miniscule, I ignored it, only later
    to find out that the problem *was corrected by DCU without my having
    to mention it to them*.
    
    (2) A couple of years ago, I got my first loan through them (a new
    car loan), and had *no* problem. From submission of application
    to getting handed the check, I think it took four days.
    
    (3) Aside from the occasional downtime on the EasyCash Card machines,
    I've been pleased with the system. I've had no problem with the
    Monec/Plus machines either in this area, or in Minneapolis, where
    I've often found myself using the Plus machines to get cash. Since
    I haven't used an actual DCU ATM since I moved out of PKO, I've
    never had to worry about machine downtime. As for the $.75 charge,
    it may interest you to note that the actual charge is supposed to
    be a dollar, but DCU eats $.25 of that.
    
    Oh, there *is* one problem I've had. I was sent a cheque in pounds
    sterling by someone in Britain. While DCU will accept it for deposit
    into my account, they will charge a "handling fee" of $20.00! For
    a cheque of roughly $25.00, it's clearly not worth it.
    
    --- jerry

I think you'll find the $20.00 handling fee for accepting a foreign check to
be typical.  Shawmut has charged me as much as $21.00.  The best way to get
foreign funds transferred into your account is (at least in the case of
funds from Germany) to have the foreign depositor go to his bank and issue
a transfer order with the notation that all charges are to be paid by the
originator.

Otherwise, have your foreign correspondent buy U.S. Dollar travellers cheques
and mail them to you.

/john

    Yes, $20 seems to be pretty standard.  Recently after a trip to
    Geneva, I submitted my expense voucher and was sent a check from
    Switzerland *in Swiss francs*.  In addition to the $20 fee, Shawmut
    would not credit my account until the check cleared the Swiss bank,
    a process that took almost 6 weeks.  Solution for next time: ask
    the foreign folks to write the check in dollars.  Shawmut tells
    me they would then treat it like any other third-party check, where
    it's creditted to your account immediately.
    
    Jon

Shawmut charged me $21 for a U.S. Dollar Eurocheque drawn on Bayerische
Vereinsbank, and also did not credit my account until it had been sent
for collection.

I suspect if it had been drawn on Dresdner Bank (a correspondent of
Shawmut) it would have been handled more expeditiously, since I have
written German Mark checks on my Shawmut account which have cleared
through Dresdner Bank at no cost but through Bayerische Vereinsbank
at a cost of about $14.

/john

I was about to say I never had any problems with my new car load, but...

Everything went real smoothly for 3 years.  Then my loan got paid off, but they
still kept putting a weekly deposit into the account for the loan that had a
balance of 0!  I had to physically walk over to the DCU to transfer money around
and get it right.

Would it have been that difficult to simply stop the deductions when the balance
went to 0?

Sigh...  Another one of those blasted computer programmers fouling up my life
again.

-mark

>                                          Then my loan got paid off, but they
>still kept putting a weekly deposit into the account for the loan that had a
>balance of 0!  

Having had 3 car loans through DCU, I have always liked that feature.  At the
end of each month, the system notices that you have a balance of $0 in your
loan account, so it transfers the money to your savings account (assuming you
have one).  I had paid off a car loan and not noticed it for a period of several
months, and discovered it only when my savings balance was significantly larger
than I had assumed it would be.

-- Ken Moreau

I guess I missed the point of the note...

I have some of my pay deposited into my DCU checking account and the remainder
shows up on my pay stub which goes into an account in BayBank.  I expected that
anmount (the one that goes into BayBank) to go up as soon as my load was paid 
off, but it didn't.  That meant it took an extra few weeks to get the money
switched over.  

Not a real big deal, but it was a surprise.  I guess my point is that they
decided to deposit MORE into the DCU than I wanted them to.

-mark

re .-1

I don't see how you can possibly expect DEC to know that you've paid off your
loan to DCU!  DEC is only aware of an amount to send to DCU and can't change
that amount without your authorization.

/john

    re: Acceptance of Foreign Bank Drafts
    
    There are two ways to move money that are cheaper and more expeditious
    than checks:
    
    One is a wire transfer.  The fee is typically $5, $10, or $15 and
    you'll have the satisfaction of knowing the system that processes
    the wire transfer is probably made by Digital.
    
    For a longer term arrangement, the thing to get is called a letter of
    credit.  This is a credit line that is says, in effect, accept this
    person's checks as if they were drawn upon Citibank's account with you.
    You pay for the letter of credit as a fee, you've been given a
    guarantee of eventual payment, not a loan. 
    
    Before the Federal Reserve Act, American banks were not obligated
    under Federal law to accept the checks of other banks at full face value.

    Actually, I was thinking about going to the branch of Barclay's
    that's in Boston to see if I can deal with them. If they don't
    charge a handling fee, I may open up an account with them to
    deal with this type of thing in the future.
    
    The thing that irritates me is that I've ordered things from the
    UK and paid by check in US$ without this sort of problem (the
    recipient has, in each case, said beforehand that such was OK).
    It rubs me the same way as the attitude many Americans have that
    everyone on Earth should speak English.
    
    --- jerry

It's not clear that Barclay's in Boston will be any help.

A customer of Barclay's U.K. who goes to Barclay's in Boston with a cheque and
a cheque cashing card will have the rude awakening that there is a 24-hour
wait for a Telex to be sent and replied to and a significant charge.

/john

    The branch of Barclay's in Boston will be no help.  They are a branch
    of Barclay's International division and do not deal with retail
    customers at all.  The branches of Barclay's in New York, by contrast,
    are retail branches that will deal with people off the street.
    
    By the way - international wire transfers typically cost $20 to
    $30.  If you know a bank that will wire funds to Europe for only
    $5 or $10, please tell me!

    
    Want a real shock! have a check get either cleared or bounced by
    someone and then all of a sudden discover that the amount is gone
    from your account again... It seems that a bank can send a form
    to the federal reserve bank stating that the original check has
    been lost and the feds wil then bill DCU and DCU will bill you,
    all very quietly without you ever finding out about it until all
    your other checks turn to rubber. A conneticut bank sent my check
    to the phoe co. and forgot they did so and put in such a claim for
    a lost check. courtesy of that I also found out that if you bounce
    eight checks in a short period of time, your checking account is
    automatically closed.
    
    
    
    

    re:.52,.53
    
    Thanks for the info. I was afraid of that.
    
    --- jerry

    I got my monthly statement from DCU yesterday.  Two of the checks
    had wrong amounts!  Both errors were in my favor, but even if they
    hadn't been I wouldn't have complained, because the errors were
    very small.
    
    That makes a lifetime total of 3 errors in check amounts since I
    joined DCU.
        John Sauter

    
    My last statement had somebody else's drafts (checks) listed on
    my statement.  What a surprise to see that I'd written a dozen checks
    on an account that I don't even have checks for!!
    
    DCU hasn't a clue as to why that happened, other than (ahem) computer
    error.....

    My statement had a check # 964000 listed, but # 964 was not.
    
    "Computer error"
    
    Scott

    The drama continues....When we last visited the problem,Citibank
    encodes my check I write for $4832, for $48.32.  I point out the
    problem with choice words to both Citibank and DCU.  They say to
    write Citibank a new check for the difference and enclude a 
    photocopy of the 'check' so I don't get hit with interest charges.
    
    Today, I receive my Citibank statement with  my new check listed
    as paid, all interest
    taken off, and, and,, an additional credit of $4796!!!!!+-couple
    dollars.
    Back on the  DCU side, the only way they can figure is that Citibank
    plans on submitting  the photocopy for payment.  We put a stop payment
    on that check.
    Any other holes?   arrrrrrrrrrrg magnetic encoding, where can I
    trade my pen in for the encoder?
    ed badger  anyone want to party on my new $4796?  maybe its not
    so bad a problem  ;-]
    

    Well it could be worse: the [British] National Giro Bank uses OPTICAL
    character readers to scan checks - no human operator encodes them
    unless the OCR can't read them. so if your '7' looks like a '1'
    or whatever you may get some interesting debits against your account.
    
    They claim a very low error rate however.
    
    /. Ian .\
    
    PS The OCR readers are American, and until recently were connected
    to venerable PDP-15s!

    re .28 ff:
    
    In twenty years of using checking accounts, I've rarely seen the wrong
    amount encoded.  There were only a few times that my cancelled checks
    had the little strip on the bottom with the correct amount.  DCU
    doesn't give you back the cancelled checks of course, but in the five
    years I've used DCU, there was only one instance where the check
    cleared with an amount different from the one I wrote.  The difference
    was fifty cents in my favor, and was probaby the result of reading
    '77/xx' in the box as '27/xx'.  Since this happened only a couple of
    months ago, this may be rectified by the payee soon. 
    
    Ironically, there was one check payable to DCU but drawn on another
    bank that initially cleared in my favor.  Apparently DCU or their
    clearing bank encoded the round sum in dollars without noticing the odd
    cents.  If they had read the amount written in words ("Fifteen hundred
    dollars and eighty cents") this mistake would not have been made.  The
    eighty cents were debited the following month. 
    
  --Simon
    

    According to the "law" the number in the box is not "legal" but
    it is the written-out number that has legal status.  While this
    makes it real tough to turn "seven" into "two" or "one", it ignores
    the reality that people, even keypunch operators and optical character
    readers only "scan" the-number-in-the-box!
    
    The real reason for the law is that it's terribly easy to add "1,"
    to a check but harder to add "one thousand" to a check.
    
    Thus it is legal to x-out the box, but I wouldn't try it if I were
    you!  This leaves us with two options: (1) write so clearly that
    the clerk and the OCR never make mistakes; (2) write so badly that
    they ALWAYS have to read the text!
    
    RMM
    

    The soap continues........last time here, Citibank credits me an
    extra $4796 on my account.  And the DCU rep figures the only possible
    why they can get into my account is to resubmit the check for $4832.
    So we put a 'stop payment' on it.
    Guess what, 'stop payment' didn't really mean stop payment to DCU
    and they paid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Who cares if they couldn't find
    an extra 5K in my account, pay first and worry latter.  Like on
    the phone to me asking what I can do to help. AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGG.
    I really don't believe that Citibank didn't need a check (just the
    photocopy) to get funds out out my account even when we put the
    stop payment on the check number. DCU paid given a slip of paper
    with my account number on it and how much they wanted. conforting.
    
    Ya, maybe its only happening to me, but I still feel like I'm
    mailing out blank checks.
The computer age is fun.
    ed badger (hopefully, the next installment doesn't find me in jail
               for writing so many bad checks!)
    

    DCU is not alone!  Although the "stop-payment" costs $10 or more
    it does not actually work because all the checks are cleared
    automatically via EFT - the stop is a manual operation that can
    take time to implement and correct.  
    
    Good Luck,
    		Rick
    

Ed:

  I believe you're assuming too much about what a "Check" 
  (or a "Now" or a "Share-draft") is.

  All that the "check" is is an order from you authorizing
  a "bank" to pay someone on your behalf, from your funds
  or credit line.

  It doesn't mater what the physical form of the order is -- I
  once heard about a "check" written upon a restaurant table-
  cloth which was then succesfully negotiated.  It can be scrib-
  bled on a Post-it.  It can be produced by your LN03.  It
  probably can even be a photocopy.  It doesn't matter.

  It is only for their own convenience that "Banks" like checks
  which look like checks and have magnetic printing and the like.

                                   Atlant

    RE: .63
    
    In light of all of your problems, have you pulled a credit report
    on yourself lately? If any of this nonsense has caused anyone to
    send in a negitive report on you to a credit bureau, if might be
    wise to find out now and get it straightened out now, instead of
    being "surprised" in a couple of years when you might want to get
    a car loan or a morgage.
    
    Deb

    In the last month or so since they (finally!) moved their
    system onto a VAX, the availability of the Maynard ATMs has
    improved dramatically. They don't even seem to need all night
    (yes, from 18:00 until 09:00) to do payroll on Wednesday nights.
    
    It was a good thing, too, because I'd gotten shat on so many times
    by their useless ATMs that I was about to walk in and insist on
    being introduced to the person in charge of driving patrons away.
    
    BTW, there are legal rules as to what constitutes a check. I
    believe the specs are (1) bank name; (2) account number of utterer;
    (3) name of entity to whom it's payable; (4) amount of money; (5)
    signature of utterer. I've heard that the IRS has received checks
    written on a shirt (yes, the shirt of his back!), carved on a
    watermelon, and tattooed on a pig (don't know whether it was alive
    or dead). I'd be inclined to use a toilet seat, myself. There is
    a caveat: this sort of thing plays hell with the banks' check
    handling system. They aren't exactly thrilled, and you're likely
    to pay $20 or more for the joke.
    
    Dick
    

(the following is from PARITY::CONSUMER, a notes file with its own 
complement of DCU concerns (note 360))
------------------------------------------
New features from DCU:  

1) They round your account balance DOWN to the nearest $5 before
calculating interest they pay you (but not interest you pay them).

2) They will be closed from 12/25 thru 1/5/87 (and no doubt quite crowded
on the 23rd & 24th).  Thus, if you try to avoid the crowds, that's 7
business days in a row (13 regular days) that our 'bank' will be
inaccessible. 

------------
Has anyone noticed how DCU is treating SAVERS lately?  I will admit
that their loan programs appear to be very good, but it seems to me
that their certificate, checking, and IRA rates are all somewhat low.
DCU came into existance in 1980, and thus has no old low-interest
loans to weight them down, so I'm having trouble understanding why
they don't offer market rates.  Also, (in a quite un-non-profit-
organization-like move) they have stopped paying interest on checking 
accounts below $500. Has anyone shopped DCU vs banks for IRAs, 
certificates, etc lately? 

Interest rates are down all around.  My Thomson McKinnon National Money Market
Fund had an average yield from 22 August to 18 September of only 5.62%.

Are you sure DCU has completely stopped paying interest on Checking below $500?

I thought they paid the Share 1 rate below $500 (5%, effective 5.13%) and 5.45
(effectively 5.6) if the account was over $500.

But I might be wrong.

They are certainly better than commercial banks in the area, where you have to
keep $1000 *minimum* balances to avoid service charges on N.O.W. accounts and
$2000-$2500 minimums on Money Market accounts.

Move your money to England, where 7%+ interest rates are still common.  Of
course, you have to risk exchange rate fluctuations!

/john

>Are you sure DCU has completely stopped paying interest on Checking below $500?

Yes, if your sharedraft account (#5) has $499 or less in it.  It will accrue  
*ZERO* interest  (maybe that's how they pay upkeep on their building :-) )

        I  just  checked  with the local branch here,  and  apparently  they
haven't been paying interest for sometime on Checking account balances below
$500, she has been working for the DCU branch here for 6 months, and she has
never heard of paying interest when the balance falls below $500.  

        Since  I  have  had  a Checking account with them  ever  since  they
oferred the money market rate and keep the required minimum I never would of
knowned had I  not  read  this  note.   I always make it a point to read the
quarterly bulletin from DCU I receive with  my statement and never noticed a
statement about this or the fact about the  regular  savings rates have been
droping, the only way they have been notifying me  is via the bulletin board
in the branch office, which I now make it a point to read.

        Another Credit union I deal with (St.  Mary's Bank, Manchester N.H.)
has  just  in  the  last  month dropped their interest rates on their saving
accounts from 7%  to  6.5% ( and you recieved notices in the MAIL as well as
at the teller windows),  and their C.D., IRA's tend to be a percentage point
higher then DCU, and their loans are competitive with the local banks around
town. Maybe I sure reconsider why I use DCU (what a pain)

Claude

    CD rates at S&L's in colorado are 1% to 1-1/2% HIGHER than at the
    DCU.

        (This was formerly .71; I deleted it and am reposting it
        here to fix a couple of typos. - Jim Stratton)
        
	re
>        < Note 138.68 by MORMPS::WEST >
>
>        2) They will be closed from 12/25 thru 1/5/87 (and no doubt
>        quite crowded on the 23rd & 24th).  Thus, if you try to avoid
>        the crowds, that's 7 business days in a row (13 regular days)
>        that our 'bank' will be inaccessible. 

        Of those "7 business days in a row", Digital (US, anyway)
        itself will be closed four of those days, 12/25, 12/26,
        1/1 and 1/2.
        
        The three Digital "working" days that the DCU will be closed
        are Monday, 29 December through Wednesday, 31 December.
        
Jim Stratton
                                                                    

        On the DCU policy of rounding down account balances before
        paying interest - that, according to my wife (a DCU employee
        who found a memo from DCU management on this point), is
        something the DCU is doing as a result of the recommendation
        from the National Credit Union Association (known to the
        DCU as "the feds").
        
        On the "no interest on share 5 accounts when the balance
        goes below $500" - that has been true for over a year.
        
        As I said many replies ago, if you have questions, problems,
        suggestions, complaints, and so on, about the DCU, putting
        them here is not the best way to get them resolved.  Call
        either John Tilley or Donna Lane Nelson at 8-223-6735.
        
Jim Stratton
        

    
    Respectfully, Talking to DCU, specifically John, is like talking
    to your terminal.  You will get the same results.
    The policy of not paying interst on on "share 5 " accounts was news
    to me when I read it here.  Why didn't they tell us (not that they
    had to tell us.....).
    our credit union.  bullshit.
    
    ed badger
    

I found out about the "no interest below $500" policy when it was in on of 
the news letters.

Steve

Interesting - the first published notice I've seen for nominations for 
the annual election of DCU's board of directors was in the DTW that 
came out today.  Says that to be on the ballot, you have to either

1) apply to DCU.  The 'nominating board' will interview applicants and 
   select those who they feel are fit to be on the ballot.  (Sounds
   like the way they approve loans).  You must apply in the next 15 days.

2) Collect 700 signatures, forms won't be available until after 12/15.  
   [wonder why the delay]? They don't say how long you have, but the
   election is on 2/13/87, and figuring lead time to print/mail ballots, 
   etc, i'd guess no more than 30 days to collect all 700. [not too bad]

I wonder how much energy they put into soliciting a field of candidates.

        I just received a receipt from DCU that shows transactions
        of another person's account.  It shows their loan payment,
        I was expecting a receipt for my loan payment.
        
        DCU prints receipts on an odd size yellow paper.  A receipt
        normally looks like this:
        
        
            Burst -->      +------------------------------------+
                           | Mmm nn, 19nn               nn:nn xM|
                           |                                    |
            about 4 3/4"   |  TRANSACTIONS                      |
                           |                                    |
                           |      Thank You       Your teller...|
                           |                                    |
            Could be burst>+------------------------------------+
                           |                                    |
                           |     NAME                           |
            about 3 3/4"   |     ADDRESS                        |
                           |                                    |
                           | Receipt 9999999999           (9 99)|
            Burst -->      +------------------------------------+
        
        
        The extra place in the middle where the paper can be burst
        is what caused the problem.  When the paper was placed in
        the printer, it was aligned with the wrong burst point. 
        After the receipts were printed, someone mindlessly burst
        them along the normal locations.  I have a statement that
        has my address in a 4 3/4" long section, above a 3 3/4" long
        section with someone else's transaction.
        
        I have no idea why they didn't notice that there was an extra
        transaction without an address at the start of the batch
        and an extra address at the end.
        
        This problem was caused by three errors: designing the form
        (there is nothing pre-printed on the paper), loading the
        forms, and bursting the forms.
        
        					B.J.

I just hear a rumor that, when you open a Home Equity line with DCU, 
they automatically cancel your CRT (unsecured credit line) and replace 
it with your Home Equity line.  Thus, you can draw down your entire 
home equity line as part of normal check writing out of your checking
account (as can anyone who illicitly accesses your acct), and you no 
longer may take a 'personal' loan except when secured by your house. 
Does this seem right? 

    Re: .80:   No rumor, just fact.   The DCU rules allow only one
    open-ended credit line.

    Does the home equity line charge less interest ? I 
    would expect so. That makes it right smart !

The issue is not so much lower interest as deductible interest.

Interest paid on loans secured by home equity are deductible up to the
current basis (basis = purchase price plus improvements, not current value).

    re: .83 >interest paid on loans secured by home equity are deductible
            >up to the current basis......
    
    
           Only if the application of the loan is for:
    
    		1.  Home repairs/additions
    		2.  Education

.84 is wrong.  I stand by .83.

The two items in .84 are the items which may be secured by home equity and
still be deductible even if beyond the basis.  (And of course, improvements
add to the basis.)

Up to the basis, interest payments on home equity loans are deductible no
matter what the purpose.

Why do you think all this shift to home equity based loans and home equity
based credit cards just started up this year?  It's a loophole in the new law.

/john

               <<< HUMAN::WRKD$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< The DEC way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 327.0                    DCU has struck again!                   No replies
DONJON::STRONACH                                     17 lines  10-JUN-1987 09:20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Digital Credit Union has struck again!!  I thought the folks who use DCU
would be interested in this episode.  On May 18 I went to the machine in
PKO5 to do a transfer from Share 1 to Share 5 -- I took a balance prior
to the transfer from Share 1 and after the transfer to Share 5 -- when I
received my statement yesterday -- lo, and behold -- the transfer did not
happen!!  I called DCU and to make a long story short -- their reply was
it's only a computer -- and YOU must take a balance prior to and after
all transfers!! Which I did. 

In the meantime, money had to be taken from savings and
god only knows why they added money and applied to my loan account as I
had more than enough in my savings account.  

Right now, I have a call into Anne Connell who is the manager -- I sure
would like some answers.  

All I can say is, check your statements!!

According to my Tax Accountant (name on req)

Home equity loans, up to the amount you paid for the house minus the 
current 1st mortgage balance, are deductable for any purpose.  Loans 
above that amount are deductable only if the application of the loan
is for: 
    
    		1.  Major home improvements
    		2.  Education
		3.  Medical expenses

John - If, by 'current basis' you mean the purchase price minus the 
first mortgage, then you are substantially correct.  If you mean
the 'current market value', you are incorrect.  

>John - If, by 'current basis' you mean the purchase price minus the 
>first mortgage, then you are substantially correct.  If you mean
>the 'current market value', you are incorrect.  

Read what I said in .83.  "basis = purchase price plus improvements, not current
value."

Note also that your first mortgage is a home equity loan.

Further note that if you were to refinance your home with a single 1st mortgage
greater than the current basis, the interest would not be fully deductible.

I repeat what I said in .83:  Interest payments on home equity loans up to the
current basis are deductible.

/john

When they tell you to look at your checks [drafts] when they come to you in 
the mail, they aren't kidding.

I just opened up a savings account for my wife and a joint sharedraft 
account.  The way we have things set up, I write my wife 1 large check and 
she distributes it to the bill collectors out of the joint account.

This worked well for 2 months.  Yesterday we got a love note in the mail.

It said I had bounced check #140 [by about $95].  I wrote check #140, in my 
account, sometime in 1980 when I first joined DCU.  We investigated this 
and found that my wife wrote check #140 [of the joint account] a week ago.

Why was my name on the bounce slip?  She's the primary on the joint account 
and she had well over $1000 more than was needed for this check!

Here's what happened.  On THIS PARICULAR DRAFT, the transfer number wasn't 
printed.  It was on THE COPY but not on THE DRAFT.  When it wound it's way 
back to DCU, they hand-processed it, looked at the names on the draft and 
got my badge number.  Thing is, they tried to post it against my draft 
account and NOT the joint account [even though BOTH names are on the check 
with HER name first].  Well, they didn't even do their usual cross-transfer 
attempt for overdrafts [I had LOTS saved in a U-Name-It].

They say this one is for the record books.  All the rest of the checks have 
the transfer number printed properly.  The worst part of this is that is 
was the check for my MORTGAGE that was vulcanized.  The bank 'knows' of the 
problem but the computers have to stop squawking at one another before the 
humans can intervene and not put a [or erase the] mark on my credit record.

Eventually, they say, all the bounce charges will be rescinded [the $9 on 
my account has been] or reimbursed.

Remember, check your checks!

    About 15 years ago, a bank in England bounced a cheque on someone
    when there were more than sufficient funds to cover it.
    
    The account holder sued the bank for libel, saying that the bank
    had damaged his reputation. He won.
    
    Nigel.
    

    Yeah ! Sue DCU, its the American Way!
    
    :-)

        I've extract note #138 up to reply .91 and have placed a copy of
        it the DCU notes file (CEDARS::DCU).  I know that maybe some of
        the problems or suggestions may have been discussed in both
        conferences, but some may not know of the DCU notes file.




                                                        Rich

    May I respectfully suggest that the issues raised here might get
    more attention and (possibly) more action, if they were addressed
    in the DCU notes conference over on CEDARS.
    
    Why is the CEDARS::DCU conference better than the HUMAN::DIGITAL
    conference? New DCU conference topics and replies are mailed to Mr.
    Steinkrauss, chairman of the board for the DCU, each day. He is
    a DEC employee (no security issue). He also sees to it that the
    issues raised in the conference are addressed in the Credit Union.
    Further, no names are used.

    Sometimes this means a future news-letter will provide information to
    meet complaints of poor information communication. Other times it may
    result in a policy change, etc., etc.
    
    Working with the DCU conference moderator and Mr. Steinkrauss, I
    have established a batch process that reads the DCU conference and
    mails the new entries. This is done using the VAXMAIL_NOTES.COM
    file contained in the TOOLSHED conference.
    
    The copy referred to in Reply 138.92 by FDCV21::DIIULIO was batched as
    a new topic in the DCU conference to Mr. Steinkrauss today (6/17/87).
    I'm sure he will find it interesting reading. {:^)> 

    Carl
        
    See you all there...in the CEDARS::DCU conference (I'll try to set in
    the keypad 7 definition for CEDARS::DCU). CEDARS was out of service for
    a while recently (several days) but is now in service. 

I applied for a mortgage with DCU on August 24th.
I want to lock in the rate.

The person who wrote up the application believes
that it is not possible to lock in the rate.
I asked about this at application and recently
over the phone.  No can do.  Period.

Has anyone applied for a DCU mortgage since about
August 1st, 1987?  Were you able to lock in before
commitment?  On what date?  Who wrote up your application?

Reply either here or if you prefer, to WONDER::STANLEY.
Thanks in advance for any info.

				Tim Stanley



Posted to CONSUMER, REAL_ESTATE

    You might want to look at CEDARS::DCU. Hit KP7 etc.
    
    		Alfred

The following is posted with permission from the originator:

===============================================================================

From:	CSC32::ROBBINS "An optimist is someone who tells you to cheer up when things are going his way  17-Oct-1988 1038"   17-OCT-1988 13:45:29.45
To:	@SOCIAL
CC:	
Subj:	Information about DCU's holding of checks

I've discovered some information that I thought I would pass along.

When I went to deposit a check at DCU they told me they wouldn't
cash or deposit it without holding it for 3 days. I've deposited many
checks before and they never held them if they were under $500.
When a check is held, no money may be withdrawn against it, and no checks
will be cleared against it. When I asked what was going on they told me that
new federal regulations REQUIRED them to do this.  I got a bit irrate and
talked with supervisors and was again told that the new check clearing
regulations REQUIRED them to hold all checks over $100 for a minumum of 3
days, regardless of the balance in your account.

Well... to make a long story shorter... I called DCU's main office
and got the same story, so I called the Federal Reserve Board and got a
copy of the regulation. It DOES NOT REQUIRE any minimum holding period.  It
specifies a maximum holding period but leaves to each financial
institution's discretion whether checks will be held or not.  After calling
DCU President's Office and talking with the person who wrote the DCU
policy, she finally admitted to me that it was a POLICY of DCU and not a
regulation. She said that they decided to implement this new policy and
in-effect blame it on new federal regulations.  This policy protects DCU
at the expense of their customer's and was in no way required by the
governement.

Just thought I'd pass this along so that if they give you the same
"line" you'll know that they're full-of-it and if enough folks
make noise or choose to bank elsewhere, perhaps DCU will get the
message that unwarrented holding of local checks is not acceptable.

- Jeff

==============================================================================
    Re: -.1

    >    You might want to look at CEDARS::DCU. Hit KP7 etc.
    
    Could not connect to this conference: Unknown newwork object

.96>    
.96>    >    You might want to look at CEDARS::DCU. Hit KP7 etc.
.96>    
.96>    Could not connect to this conference: Unknown newwork object
    
    The conference is BEIRUT::DCU.
    
    -Glenn-

	Another "goody" about the dcu -

	If your a digital employee and give me a check from your
	DCU account - When I deposit in my DCU checking account, I
	get to see YOUR badge number included in the information
	on my receipt.

	/Robin

Re .98:

How is that a problem with DCU?
				/AHM/THX

    There is a DCU conference at BEIRUT::DCU for this kind of thing.
    Digital and the DCU are not the same. DCU is not a benefit in
    the way insurance is. Comments about the DCU in this conference
    are not read by anyone who can do anything about it. On the
    other hand comments in the DCU conference *are* read by DCU
    board members and communicated to DCU management. So either
    you care about fixing the 'problems' or you'll write here.
    If you write about it here you are saying that you don't want
    the 'problem' fixed but want to gripe anyway.


    			Alfred - co-moderator