Conference 7.286::digital

	Sounds like you're experiencing something called the Peter Principle.
It states that in every system "a person rises to their level of incompetance,
and remains there".  This is certainly not limited to DEC, and while it seems
at times that it's hard to do anything right with this system, our competition
suffers from it also.

	Like any such generalization, however, it does not hold in all cases.
There are certainly many people (if not most) who are doing their job well.
It is human nature to notice the bad, while overlooking the good.

	See, Diddier?  This file isn't limited to you, Norbert, Nisreen, and
Gale (who you forgot to mention, even though she had been posting).

=Mark_E=

Mark,

The fact that other companies, also have unrelaiable people, who are raised 
at a managing position, does not excuse, that we have to deal with this sort 
of problem within our company.

When I still went to school, I often got bad marks...Coming home, I used
to say to my mother: "Well...yes I know it is bad...But there were many
others, which were worse than me!"..And she used to reply: "Don't take
the bad ones as an example, take those who are better than you!"

I guess, that my mother could teach us something...

Norbert

	I agree, Norbert, that there is no excuse for that situation occurring.
I was merely pointing out why we weren't driven out of business years ago.
Yes, it would be wonderful to get rid of these people, but, realistically, I
can't see it happening.

=Mark_E=

So, as Didier already pointed out, let's change them! This file is also here
to help us doing so.
Norbert

Wait, Norbert! This file is not here to change the way people are working.
It is to discuss about what is supposed to be done, how we imagine how
our job should be, to give examples of things going wrong to try to find
solutions, etc... ok?

re -1: Didier...so what is the use of talking, discussing, and finding
       solutions, if we really cannot change anything..or do you think that
       we can?...Talk is Cheap...the hard part is bringing results.


Nisreen

let me give you a secret. When this file is big enough, I will do some
statistics, then I will try to figure out why people don't 'live' our
mind, then I will send mail to KO explaining the situation, then he will
be happy about me, then he will offer me a job to create and manage the 
H&PTG (as you probably know, the H&PTG is the Happiness and Pleasure 
Training Group) and solve ALL employees/managers problems, then he will
 ?directive error \

:-)

    Go Doider!  I'll be your assistant.
    
    We can do something.  Those of us who read this file (as well as
    those who write in it) are doing something.  We are changing the
    company.  After all, who do you think the company is?  Where do
    you think change comes from?  All it takes is 1 person to change
    himself or the way he does something.  If that person shows 1 other
    person and the other person chooses to make the same change, and
    then each of them offers the choice to 2 more people,...(powers
    of 2 example here)
    
    We can't make other people change or be the way we want them to
    be.  We can choose to change ourselves and the way we deal with
    the world around us.  We can accept it and contribute ideas about
    how it might be better (Holding the dread and talking about it...)
    or we can complain and fight about things we don't like.
    
    There's a philosophical theory that the things we think about come
    true:  If we hold negative thoughts (Don't think about that itch.)
    then we focus our energy on all the things we don't like.  On the
    other hand if we hold positive thoughts and focus our energy on
    the positive things around us, we'll see more of what we want to
    see - and <suprise> more things we like will happen.
         (Confess now, did you scratch the itch that wasn't there?)
    
    I hold the image of the way I want my world to be; of the things
    I want to have around me and do.  I recognize the reality of the
    existance of the things that aren't particularly attractive or
    interesting to me and focus my attention on the way they could be.
    Sometimes the reality changes.  Sometimes I find that a walk in
    the sun at lunch helps me accept the rest of the day.  Sometimes
    it makes the rest of an already nice day even better.
    
    <:)  I guess I get carried away sometimes, too.  <:)
    
    My point is simple.  I am the company.  I make things happen for
    me and when I do they happen for the company.  I choose to make
    things I want to happen happen.  I want my life to be pleasant and
    productive.  I want to enjoy my work.  Actually I do enjoy my work!
    I choose the people I associate with and we choose to make things
    better - and to laugh at the things that aren't, yet.  You can too.
    
    						-bp-

    I think those of us who read this file are doing something even better
    than introducing change.  We are remembering. 
    
    The best kind of change is, at its heart, very conservative.  It tries
    to find ways to make the values we "always knew were right" work in a
    changing environment.  It tries to find creative ways of being the DEC
    we all know and care about in the '80's.  That's part of what I think
    we are doing in this file.  Remembering for the future.
    
    Some thoughts on how to encourage this kind of change in a political
    environment: 
    
1.  One thing that is critical in the politics of change is bringing a
    coherent plan to the right people.  

    I hear a lot of unproductive griping around the company about this or
    that being all messed up.  If a person knows enough to have a
    legitimate gripe, he probably knows enough to form a coherent set of
    specific practical changes which he can recommend to the person (or
    persons) most likely to effect the situation.  Or he knows someone
    who could help him put together such a plan.
    
    Most managers aren't intractable; they've just been thinking the same
    ideas for a long time. When I've taken this approach in my career, it
    has won me nothing but respect and an improved environment.  Doing this
    usually doesn't cost you many hours either, just initiative. 

2.  Change is only effective when it is practical and people "buy into"
    it.  It takes time and patience, but, if the change is worth doing, 
    it can be done. 
    
    The software group I am in now is preparing to use more software
    engineering techniques.  Some techniques work well in the "real world";
    others don't.  It took two years to understand the need for change, to
    agree that change is needed, and to know just how much change is enough
    and what kind.  
    
    Now, after those two years, the group is politically ready for the
    change, and I believe it will be effective, (1) because we took the
    time to understand how recognize a "turkey", and (2) because everybody
    has now "bought into" the basic goal and trusts that we won't be
    "hatching a turkey". 
    
From what I've been reading, these guidelines are probably more appropriate
to engineering in the U.S. than to other parts of the company, but I
suspect that they are sound wherever management is open to hearing ideas.
At the very least, they are a good way to get done the job that your
manager believes your organization is trying to do (which is "de facto"
its job, right? :-) ). 
    
        						Ralph

    RE:.9
    
    I'm probally a little late, butttttttttt:
    
    	This sounds like a problem for (up-beat backround music) Quality
    	Circles. In our group, our second and third shifts just completed
    	a project that lasted for more than 8 months, we realized the
    	problem, attacked, and solved it. It made us realize some of
    	the other problems in our department. While working on this
    	particular problem, we realized that the NUMBER ONE thing we
    	had to have was teamwork. The solution came along slowly and
    	with alot of tedious (sp?) work, we became a team, not only
    	with ourselves but with other groups that we deal with. 
    
    
    	Bottom line:
    		Teamwork is the key to sucess, wheather it be a shift,
    	a group, or even a company. Digital has that potential for teamwork
    	and we MUST work closer to continue this teamwork.
    
    
    						/^PiT^\