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Conference azur::mcc

Title:DECmcc user notes file. Does not replace IPMT.
Notice:Use IPMT for problems. Newsletter location in note 6187
Moderator:TAEC::BEROUD
Created:Mon Aug 21 1989
Last Modified:Wed Jun 04 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:6497
Total number of notes:27359

1415.0. "FLIGHT?" by ALOSWS::MULLER (Fred Muller) Wed Aug 28 1991 15:59

    Is anyone in the MCC arena a FLIGHT affecionado?  Developers?
    
    What started out as an interactive client-server demo aimed at a
    customer perhaps has potential here.  I made a 3-D world model of a
    customer's entire plant facility for use with the previewer. The first
    DECie that saw it said "why not use it to model the network."  It is
    attractive in this case because the customer does not know where it all
    is.  Betcha there are others.  I have lots of ideas such as using node
    numbers as NDB frequencies and then using the ADF to locate them.
    
    Fred
    
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1415.1TOOK::F_MESSINGERWed Aug 28 1991 16:125

Could you post a pointer to it?

Fred
1415.2Wait'll Bill Gassman sees *this* note! ;^)TOOK::MCPHERSONi'm only 5 foot one...Wed Aug 28 1991 16:290
1415.3TOOK::F_MESSINGERWed Aug 28 1991 16:352
Who's Bill Gassman??
1415.4?ALOSWS::MULLERFred MullerWed Aug 28 1991 17:144
    Oh boy, with three replys so quickly I want to know who Gassman is too.
    Probably another FLIGHT nut (affectionado)?  Fred Messinger - a pointer
    to what? - the plant WORLD?  Are you one?  A nut, that is, of course,
    only in the context of this discussion?  I admit it.    Fred (Muller)
1415.5TOOK::F_MESSINGERWed Aug 28 1991 18:0210
   
>  What started out as an interactive client-server demo aimed at a
>  customer perhaps has potential here.  I made a 3-D world model of a
>  customer's entire plant facility for use with the previewer. The first

Whoops, sorry!  I read this to mean that you had developed something
that behaved similar to FLIGHT and operated on your 3-d world model data.

Fred

1415.6FLIGHT - More than a simulatorENUF::GASSMANWed Aug 28 1991 18:2316
    Just saw the note - and I've been waiting for someone else to see the
    potential of the FLIGHT simulator.  While I have not imagined the
    ability to create a 'world' that the previewer could work with, (an
    amazing idea!) what I'd like to see is the use of the simulator widgets
    as a control panel for various pieces of equipment.  I imagine a
    toolkit with gages, dials, switches, joysticks, indicator lights, and
    such - like are already there for the cessna, F16, saturn 5, etc.  Each
    technology expert would define a 'control panel' made up of the
    widgets, and tie each to counters, attributes, calculations, alarm
    thresholds, etc.  Once stable, a user could modify the control panel or
    design their own.  FLIGHT is VERY object oriented - as one can see by
    reading the modeling language for different aircraft.  It is technology
    that is within this corporation, and could go a long way in putting MCC 
    quantums ahead of the competition - where it belongs.
    
    bill (a lunchtime dogfighter)
1415.7Right on!ALOSWS::MULLERFred MullerWed Aug 28 1991 18:2721
    Fred
    
    >Whoops, sorry!  I read this to mean that you had developed something

    No need, you were correct in your interpretation.  Sounds like you
    might be a FLIGHTer.  It is very similar to the model of The Mill in
    FLT$MASSACHUSETTS.WORLD, only much larger.  It will not be immmediately
    available - sneakernet from home to office, things like that.  Location
    is the GE plant in Schenectady, NY.
    
    The Blue Angels made many impressive passes over the plant at 300-400'
    during practice for the airshow this summer.  Now I can do it too in
    the F/A-18 and skim the GE meatball just like they did.
    
    But that digresses from the possible business use as expressed in note
    0.  I am always on the lookout for ways to make work fun.
    
    Fred
    
    Fred
    
1415.8arm your weaponsENUF::GASSMANWed Aug 28 1991 19:052
    I can't wait to take out my favorite pirate ship, and fire a missle at 
    a cisco router!  :-)
1415.9TOOK::F_MESSINGERThu Aug 29 1991 11:436
For those of you who expressed concern that I did not know who Bill Gassman is,
....I really do know who the man is!!!...I for got to put the smiley face :>
on my question.  Abundant apologizies!!

Fred
1415.10Great Idea!DWOMV2::MTHOMPSONTue Oct 01 1991 12:3015
    I'm fueling my DECMCC director/bomber now.  
    - Technical question:  would a Mark 82 do the trick on an
    			   AT$T Starlan or should I use a nuke?
    
    This is an inspiration!  Please direct this to Delta or someone
    in a position to impliment this.  The simulator has man years
    of work put into it and would make an excelent product for
    both Network management and manufacturing managment.
    The possibilities are enormous and we need something to grab
    customers attention.  
    
    	Lunchtime Warthog jockey,
    
    	Mark
    
1415.11Done a while ago.ALOSWS::MULLERFred MullerThu Oct 17 1991 11:4411
    Mark,

    I have submitted the idea to the DELTA office and need to do some
    follow up. They passed it on to someone else from whom I have not
    received comment.

    If I can find my original submission (quite lengthy) I may post it here
    if a re-read seems appropriate.

    Fred
    
1415.12DELTA Suggestion.ALOSWS::MULLERFred MullerThu Oct 17 1991 12:19159
    From:	ALOSWS::MULLER       26-MAR-1991 14:35:51.42 To:	
    MSBCS::KOENIG CC:	
    LASSONDE,SONATA::IDEASCENTRAL,QUEEN::BUEHLER,LHOTSE::DAHL,MULLER Subj:	
    FLIGHT

    Stephan M. Koenig	
    Market Development Manager
    Mid-Range Systems Business
    Digital Equipment Corporation
    85 Swanson Road, BXB1-1F11
    Boxboro, MA 01719-1326
    (508-264-5859)

    Dear Steve,

    After your Client/Server Presentation at the "On Tour 1991" show in
    Saratoga Springs, NY in January I mentioned a program called "FLIGHT"
    which some of us (not necessarily any of the above CC:'s) consider to
    be the best example of "Digital's Way of Computing" using the
    client/server approach. Sorry for this promised reply being so belated. 

    Your presentation in Saratoga, and the entire morning session at that
    customer presentation has stimulated this communication.  If I may
    comment on that MORNING's session: technically it was superb, but
    needed some "jazzing up".  It was long and slow moving for much of the
    audience.

    Since seeing a "live music" client/server demo at last November's
    Stockholder's Meeting, I have been wondering how or to whom to address
    the idea that FLIGHT could possibly be an effective demo.  Also, I saw
    a picture of that music demo on page 13 of the October, 1990 issue of
    "DECWORLD". I guess it was used at the last series of DECworlds. More
    about this later. 

    I am presenting the following information from a background that
    includes over 5000 hours of Certified Flight Instructor experience,
    over 10 years of Digital Software Services experience (PSS/EIS) and
    seven years as an Assistant Professor at a major US university; also,
    from more than a year of using all aspects of the FLIGHT program and
    some contact with the program authors. 

    The FLIGHT program is a "midnight special" mainly by two principals,
    John Buehler and Tom Dahl in Spitbrook, at the above VAXmail addresses. 
    They started it three or four years ago.  There is an extensive
    VAXnotes conference, QUEEN::FLIGHT, with reference to the kit source in
    note #507.  I am sending you an extract of that note in a following
    VAXmail.  Corporate legal has recently approved its public release.  I
    have heard that it has been a very popular unofficial demo at many past
    DECworlds and DECUS meetings. I hope John and Tom will not think I am
    sticking my nose in where it does not belong.  I hope I have the facts
    right too.

    Please skip the next few paragraphs to the one marked by "***" if they
    are too complicated.

    The FLIGHT program has three parts: (1) a server "vehicle" simulator
    (FLT$SIMULATOR); (2) a server "environment" simulator (FLT$WORLD); and,
    (3) the client DECwindows display.  (1) and (2) are co-operating
    servers, for example: one or more aircraft flying in a world.  It has a
    lot of the aspects of the new field called "Virtual Reality".  It is
    not restricted to airplanes and airspace.  Since the FLIGHT program
    has, in addition to its real time simulation capability, object editors
    and compilers, users can design any type of real or imaginary vehicles
    to interact in surface, air, extra-terrestrial space, water and
    underwater environments.  Everything looks as real as you can design it
    within the confines of wire and stick modelling.  Aircraft are built
    with the actual NASA airfoil designs if desired.  The F/A-18 Hornet
    flys like I would imagine a real one does.  It catapults from the
    aircraft carrier "USS Carl Vinson" in the FLT$SOUTH-PACIFIC.WORLD just
    like I would expect it to from TV and the movies. Wait till you get
    good enough to do a carrier landing and catch an arresting wire! The
    Cherokee-140 does fly like the real one from many hours of personal
    experience.

    Presently (1) and (2) above are restricted to VMS platforms and (3) to
    any DECwindows display.   {{Sentence deleted at John's request - FAM
    911017.}} Each user of a vehicle (1) can be on a separate CPU - or on
    the same CPU as the common environment CPU (2) which co-ordinates the
    various vehicle interactions (flying, driving, shooting, crashing,
    etc). 

    ***

    This makes FLIGHTsound exclusively like a game.  From my (and others)
    flight instruction experiences, I claim it is much more.  So do the
    authors.  Admittedly, it is used as a game or learning experience which
    requires whatever level of expertise one wishes to apply to it.  To
    those so inclined it is almost as addicting as the real thing. 

    Hopefully, you have the idea by now for your purposes.  Now I would
    like to return to the "live music" client/server demo I saw at the
    Stockholder's Meeting.  It probably applies just as well to some ideas
    I may have already stimulated you to think about. 

    First, a critique of that demo.  I am going to assume you have seen it
    somewhere.  The use of two experienced musicians was a good attempt to
    make it a live demo.  They did a good job. Music appeals to everyone.
    But what I saw did not correlate well with what I heard. 

    The large projection screen was not synchronized with the live
    presentation; it was just something in the background somehow related
    to music in general. And of course it was colorful.  The fireworks
    might have been appropriate to the 1812 Overture if it had been used. 
    The two PC's and the MAC in front were an effort to show that they were
    integrated into the system and were doing something. It did not impress
    me. If I remember correctly, they sat there showing a constant screen. 
    Also, the consoles, VAX's and/or MIP's, I forget which, the
    musician/programmers were using did not present anything I recognized
    having to do with music. 

    What I am now going to suggest may sound far out.  Like the above demo,
    it would take some experienced folks.  But, I am sure we have some real
    current pilots, ex-airline and ex-military pilots, and maybe even a few
    layed-off air traffic controllers in the company who would just love to
    put something like this together.  I know of one other pilot in the
    company - our own Ken Olsen. No, I do not expect he would participate,
    but he might like to see it. 

    I am thinking of two approaches, one a serious "real" approach and one
    a less serious "game" approach.  Both of these suggestions could be
    implemented with current hardware and the FLIGHT program. 

    The serious "real" one: 

    Use the MASSACHUSETTS world which is the eastern part of Massachusetts
    with almost all airports and lots of visual reference points. All
    communication should be played over a loudspeaker. A large projection
    screen with an ATC radar screen located at Boston Logan with an air
    traffic controller controlling aircraft through headsets. Several
    aircraft cleared for landings and approaches.  These aircraft being
    flown by pilots on display clients around the room.  Landings and
    takeoffs are seen live on the displays. Radar returns move live on the
    ATC radar.  Maybe a 747 taking off for Europe; a Cherokee-140 taking
    off from Boston and landing at Hanscom; an F/A-18 leaving Weymouth for
    a practice bombing run out in the Atlantic.  Even a DEC Bell JETranger
    helicoptor taking off from The Mill for a trip to Logan. The Mill is
    there complete with the bell tower.  I will bet that we have enough
    bandwidth over the Atlantic so that one of the airplanes could be flown
    by someone in Europe. 

    I have tested the 2 plane + ATC radar concept using two VS2000's
    and a uVAX.

    The fun "game" one: 

    Under somewhat the same physical setup as the above use the MIDWAY
    world which is a reconstruction of the Battle of Midway.  The correct
    Japanese and US carriers are there along with Midway Island.  Japanese
    Zero and American Hellcats take each other on in a real time
    reconstruction of part of that battle with machine guns, bombs and
    torpedos.

    If we are sensitive to our Japanese friends, use the South Pacific
    world and just fly around the three islands and the aircraft carrier. 

    Nothing would prevent both of the above occuring simultaneously on
    opposite sides of the room. 

    Fred