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Conference azur::mcc

Title:DECmcc user notes file. Does not replace IPMT.
Notice:Use IPMT for problems. Newsletter location in note 6187
Moderator:TAEC::BEROUD
Created:Mon Aug 21 1989
Last Modified:Wed Jun 04 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:6497
Total number of notes:27359

1003.0. "SNMP vs other AMs!!!" by ZPOVC::RAMARAJ () Mon May 13 1991 12:38

    With so many other vendors providing SNMP agents on their boxes or
    systems, and with our systems supporting SNMP agents, how do we sell
    other AMs?
    
    Are there some kind of managements that SNMP will not be able to do on
    network objects?
    
    We are facing stiff competition with HP on this area.  Their SNMP
    management is very strong compared to our VMS MCC SNMP AM now.  The
    customer is swinging towards them.  Their are only interested in SNMP
    management.
    
    Before somebody jumps in and says to use the MSU product, let me point
    out that we talking about managing our FDDI products, bridges and
    others that do not SNMP.
    
    The customer is talking about getting other vendors equiptments that
    support SNMP management and dropping us out.
    
    The only way to get them back on track is educate them on what SNMP
    cannot manage and thus emphasis on our AM approach.
    
    Could anyone out there provide some ammunition?
    This is not to put down our SNMP management but to emphasize our
    architecture.
    
    
    Raj
    SWS Singapore
    
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1003.1BSYBEE::EGOLFJohn C. Egolf LKG2-2/T02 x226-7874Mon May 13 1991 15:4213
	Raj,

	Two answers...

	First, MSU  is  being  upgraded  specifically  to  handle FDDI.
	Should be released very soon.  

	Second, all the  SNMP  "stuff" people want will be in V1.2.  We
	expect to be EFTing  this  late  July,  early August - shipping
	before the end of the year.


	JCE
1003.2In a standard world, you'ld only need 1 AM - the Common AMCAPN::SYLORArchitect = Buzzword GeneratorWed May 22 1991 00:0434
No one answered your question....

Yes, lots of ***new*** products will have SNMP agents. But what about those
older things, like SNA network gear, and what happens when the customer
graduates from simple network management to remote system's management. Where
is a company building an SNMP agent to start a disk back-up, and if they
built it, would the customer buy it? And while we're at it, what can that 
SNMP agent do? Lots of those boxes with SNMP agents still require some
other tool/protocol/mechanism to "configure" or "set-up" the box. Those 
tools/whatever are often proprietary. Take a CISCO router, I understand 
you have to TELNET to the router and log-in to change anything in 
the configuration. Hopefully, they'll be an AM to do that for you.

Note this is not an argument against SNMP - it holds true for 
any *standard* management protocol. It will be "awhile" before you see 
boxes that can be completely managed via standard protocols, until that 
happens, the ability to "plug-in" an AM for any protocol is a major 
advantage DECmcc has over the competition. Reasonable customers do 
understand this problem. They've got lots of old gear to manage, and in
this age of multi-vendor networks, it's nearly impossible for them
to force all equipment and software they buy to follow one standard.

	"That's the nice thing about standards, there's so many of them...."

Still, sooner or later, the need for new AMs will dry up as standards 
do take hold, and standard AMs exist and are given away for free with
the basic DECmcc kit or are given away for free by the  entity
supplier. We'll always need AMs for legacy devices, but that's a 
shrinking market. That's why the future lies in FMs or applications.
And not just any applications, but applications that understand particular 
kinds of entities and can provided added value to the manager for those 
entities.

					Mark
1003.3SNMP ain't out of steam yetENUF::GASSMANThu May 23 1991 10:3628
    How would an AM work to set up the cisco box with TELNET?   Isn't this
    like the famous ASCII AM, but with a TELNET protocol twist?  Will we be
    seeing CTERM and VTP AM modules as well?  
    
    One major movement in the netmgt market is the building of vertical
    applications to manage specific types of devices.  Now that 'everyone'
    is going to SNMP, applciations that manage routers, bridges,
    concentrators, lan probes, file servers, etc can be built.  You see
    companies like synoptics and cabletron doing concentrator applications,
    cisco and wellfleet making applications that are useful on routers, and
    such.  With standard MIB's coming for these and other technologies,
    these vertical applications will start working on multiple vendor's
    devices.  Most of the growth in this market is now on the SUN
    Netmanager, since it's where 85% of the OEM business has been for the
    past 5 years.  
    
    SNMP seems far from running out of steam.  While CMIP seems to be
    better for applications like system management, SNMP will give it a
    good 'go for it', and possibly will even handle many of the features
    that customers really need in the short term.  
    
    Bottom line is that all work that MCC does in the SNMP area brings it
    closer to where the market movement is - and once in that market, the
    extras that MCC brings takes customers beyond what their 'simple
    managers' can provide.  However - without parity in the vertical
    application area - nobody will ever be using the 'extra stuff'.
    
    bill
1003.4AMs foreverTOOK::MATTHEWSFri May 24 1991 20:2320
    I agree with Mark Sylor to a large extent. Standard protocols is the
    way to go for anything new. Yes, there are limits to SNMP and yes
    CMIP is too bloated to be the ultimate answer. I suspect that sometime
    in the next 5 years there will be SNMP II (currently proposed by
    the pioneers in the IETF community) and there will be some diet
    CMIP offering. Also dominate players in particular markets 
    (ie. IBM SNA using NMVT and Novell Netware using IPX) will resist
    standard protocols forever. Also there will also be someone with
    a new way of looking at the world. So where I differ from Mark
    is that I believe multiple protocols and AMs are with us forever.
    The challenge is to make them and advantage and to make money
    out of supplying them. 
    
    I have been doing network management since 1978. I have been hearing
    of the holy grail of one standard protocol fits all since I started
    It is no closer today than it was then. SNMP is great but it is
    not Nirvana. We will still be writing AMs as long as MCC is in
    the market place. The trick is to minimize it as much as possible.
    
    wally