Conference vaxcat::ef97

    Jamie,
    
    I really miss the Electronic Telegraph extracts. Is there any chance of
    your finding the time to start doing them again?
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    It depends on how much free time I have and whether the internet is
    running or walking. Currently I am in the process of picking up today's
    ET.

    Jamie.

    
    	isn't he a saint, laurie?

    	isn't he a saint, laurie?

Hang on, I thought he was alive and well?

//atp

    He's a treasure: whatever you can do Jamie, it's all much appreciated.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

What is this EF_Friends?

Rgds, Steve.

    
    	you DON'T want to know, steve.
    	trust me.
    	
    
    
    	full of huggy wuggies
    	positive energy channeling
    	good thoughts
    	sweetness 
    	n light

    I think you missed off "bright blessings", Denise.
    
    Helpfully, Laurie.

    
    	thank you, laurie, forever the helpful hannah.
    

Apparently some group of smelly people are trying to entomb themselves
underneath some road extension somewhere.  People building the road are
attempting to stop the smellies from having their wish.

Is it not about time we just built the damned road and let the smellies decide
whether they want to get out or die?

regards,
//alan

    Sorry for the lack of news for the last couple of days. I am currently
    rotting with a cold. I felt better yesterday and foolishly came into
    work today and I now seriously wish I had not.

    Reuters has temporarily disappeared from CompuServe and is threatened
    to return as a paid service. I can still get their headlines free from
    an alternate source. I shall see what other arrangements can be made.

    Jamie.

    
    	bummer about the cold....
    	and the news....
    
    	sigh

    Well Reuters is back, it says it is now a premium service, but all
    other premium services tell you exactly how much you will have to pay
    before you get into them. Reuters just lets me access as before. I
    suppose that I'll have to mail them and find out what is going on.

    Jamie.

    The currency report is in and I'm off until Tuesday. Talk among
    yourselves.

    Jamie.

7.840

That minister must be a bit soft in the head.  

Mind you, the "less than 25 miles from Dunblane" line is pretty irrelevant.  
That 25 miles is a _big_ separation.  Uddingston (where I use to live and my
parents still do) is essentially part of the city of Glasgow.  Dunblane is a
rural town.  The differences are extreme.

regards,
//alan

    Yesterday's and today's news can be found on TERRI::ES96 topic 67.*

    Jamie.

    >E-MAIL ADS 
    >
    >CARSON CITY, Nevada (AP) -- Nevada could be the first state to bar
    >unsolicited electronic mail advertising under a bill being considered
    >by lawmakers. The measure would make it a misdemeanor to send
    >unsolicited ads directly to e-mail accounts. State Senate Majority
    >leader Bill Raggio said the bill was modeled on a previous measure that
    >prohibits unsolicited advertising over fax machines. California,
    >Virginia and Connecticut are all considering similar e-mail advertising
    >bans. 
   
    Given the fact that the vast majority of the Internet is outside the
    jurisdiction of the State of Nevada, one can but wonder how they intend
    to enforce this law. One can also speculate on the theory that the
    sole function of the head of a member of a Nevada State Senator is to
    keep the ears apart.

    Jamie.

    It is only Thursday but the currency report is in. Tomorrow the medical
    profession have requested the use of my body, so I'll be back on
    Monday.

    Jamie.

    Re 7.1015
    
    > A DOUBLE motorway pile-up in fog which left three motorists dead and 62
    > injured was blamed last night on drivers travelling too fast, being
    > too close to the car in front and not concentrating.
    
    Same old story. No-one learns, do they?
    
    Goldy.

    Re 7.1021
    
    > Calls would be interrupted at intervals advising the user how much he
    > or she had spent, and conversations would be cut off if they exceeded a
    > "maximum spend time" yet to be decided. 
    
    If the user isn't paying the phone bill, would they care about the
    cost?
    
    > In seeking to ban under-18s it would require
    > the operator to ask a caller's age and date of birth and cut off a
    > caller if the answers were unsatisfactory.

    And what's to stop the caller giving a date of birth that makes them
    over 18? Will the operator be able to check the ages of the people who
    live at the address the call is being made from?
    
    Goldy.

    7.1020
    
    What's an "industrial fish"?
    
    Andrew

    Re 8.27
    
    > What's an "industrial fish"?
    
    Me?
    
    Goldy.

    >THE headmaster of a private girls' school has been dismissed after the
    >board of governors announced they had "a total loss of confidence" in
    >him.

    >Colin Brooks has been the head of The Royal School in Haslemere,
    >Surrey, whose patrons are the Queen and Queen Elizabeth, the Queen
    >Mother, for the last year and a half. But parents of children at the
    >school were shocked to receive a letter yesterday announcing the
    >dismissal, to take effect instantly, with no explanation.

    One can but wonder what he was up to.

    A while back the head of a private boys' school. I actually found out
    the truth of that one. 

    It seems the kids were having a party and wanted to record it for
    posterity, so they asked to borrow the school video camera. The head
    agreed and gave them the camera.

    Everything went off ok and the kids decided to make some still shots
    from the tape using the school's PC so that they could mail them to
    their parents. In the process of doing this they let the tape run on
    beyond the party and saw what they had overwritten.

    It was a full frontal of the esteemed head er, um, cough, taking
    himself in hand, as it were. Naturally the kids reported it to the
    deputy head who took it to the governors and the head was given the
    bum's rush.

    However no one knows what happened in the interval between the kids
    seeing the shot and them reporting it. Knowing kids, they most likely
    made a copy.

    Jamie.
               

    > > What's an "industrial fish"?
        
    >    Me?
     
    Not an industrious fish, an undustrial fish.
    
    Any ideas?
    
    Andrew   
    

    Yes, it's a typo. u and i are next to each other on a keyboard.
    
    Helpfully yours,
    Goldy.

    Well, roger me! One learns something new every day.
    
    Laurie.

    
    	are you trying to wind the fish up, laurie?

    >are you trying to wind the fish up, laurie?
    
    So an industrial fish is a clockwork fish?
    
    Jamie.

    curiouser and curiouser
    
    Andrew

    
    	we all knew she was a clockwork fish...
    	its the other part that's truly an enigma.
    
    	someone, slap me out of this real quick before
    	i get into trouble?

    denise, just for you
    
    <slap> <Slap> <SLAP!>
    
    That any better?
    
    Balders

    
    	wow.
    	i think i'm in love.
    	
    
    
    	care for a mistress, balders?

    Regarding the date of the election...
    
    Someone on R4 this morning was making the point that if parliament is
    disolved before April 8th all the MPs lose valuable pension and
    employment rights.
    
    Now would nice Mr Major really upset all those MPs? Of course not - so
    I predict no end to this parliament until that dealine has passed.
    
    Andrew

    re .38
    
    Sounds interesting......

    Today is St Patrick's day. Traditionally my birthday is celebrated the
    next day, well it has been for the last 55 years.

    So I'm having it off, as it were, and you lot will have to forage for
    your own news, or rediscover the art of conversation.

    Jamie.

    Re 8.41
    
    > So I'm having it off, as it were, and you lot will have to forage for
    > your own news, or rediscover the art of conversation.
     
    Fnarr! Some chance!
    
    Happy Birthday, Jamie.
    
    Goldy.

Many happy letulns...

//atp

    Wot 'e said.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.
    
    PS. Nice one, Mr. Potter!

    
     J, ever consider sending your old surgeon a birthday card for 
    yourself, from yourself ? Might give him something to smile about.
    
     Happy birthday.
    
    A/.                                

    
    St.Patrick's day?
    
    Here in Galway I never even noticed. There was some mumbling about a
    great parade but by the time I'd dragged myself out of bed and into
    town round about one in the afternoon especially early it had finished.
    After that it was as dead as a Sunday afternoon.
    
    Chris

    
    	happy birthday, jamie!!!
    
    	st patrick's day, a great holiday, honouring a great st.
    
    	GUINNESS!!

Only if you're Irish though..

Andrea

    Well I got 5 cards, (thank you Denise) 3 rose bushes and a bottle of
    whisky.

    I had a nice long lie until 08:30 then I got up and made myself a ham
    omelet by way of breakfast.

    I was just sitting down at the table when I discovered an extra present
    from one of the cats. This took the form of, most of a medium sized dead
    rabbit.

    The missing part was the throat. For those of you who are not familiar
    with dismantling rabbits, when you take the throat out they tend to
    leak a lot.

    This sort of put me off my omelet but with perseverance I managed to
    get it down. Later, when I felt up to it, I began to clear up the mess.
    I got a dustpan and used it to lift the corpse. Unfortunately I put it
    only under the body and when I lifted it up the head fell off, hit the
    floor with a disgusting thump and rolled under the table, hotly pursued
    by some of the onlooking cats.

    This just about caused me to review the omelet. The corpse was donated
    to a pair of crows who spent most of the morning noisily consuming it.

    Cats, don't you just love them.

    Jamie.
                                             

    cats....a pair of crows 

:-)

Y'know in some ways you may have got off lightly...

regards,
//alan

    
    	honestly andrea, you really do crack me up.

Gld to be of service Denise..  I presume you're not Irish then...

    
    	but i thought you knew i was a yank.
    	haven't you been paying attention???

Oh sorry, of course I forgot about Americas plasticus paddiuis 
syndrome..  sorry I hope all the "Irish" out there enjoyed themselves...

Andrea

    
    Re: 7.1182, JFK-TEXT
    
    > Herald Square in Manhattan. The AP has an original copy of the same
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    WTF is an original copy?
    
    The lengths some people will go to in order to make ridiculous claims.
    
    It was the same with the cloning thing. Those yanks claimed to have
    cloned a monkey but it wasn't quite cloning in fact nowhere near just
    a feeble attempt to claim a first.
    
    Chris

    The Dutch Farming community long famed for being honest as the day is
    long (during December in Alaska), is in a bit of a tizz.

    Due to the intensive farming methods they produce more pig dung that
    they can recycle. To stop a pig dung mountain, or lake, forming they
    are limited in the number of pigs that they can keep.

    Unfortunately they tended to keep more than they were allowed to. So
    when there was an outbreak of swine fever where was a bit of
    surreptitious moving of pigs. Naturally this spread the disease. 

    Now they are having to slaughter a lot of animals and the Dutch
    government is compensating the farmers for all the licensed pigs but is
    not paying a cent for the unlicensed ones. The farmers think this is
    most unfair. 

    Jamie.                                                      

    
    	it's DISCRIMINATION, DAMMIT!

    Re. 56
    
    I think the farmers should be made to pay a fine for every additional pig.
    It's about time people who disregard agricultural policies or who
    engage in irresponsible agricultural practices started facing up to the
    consequence of their actions.  IMO, compromising public health for a few
    extra bucks should be penalised.
    
    CHARLOTTE

    re .58
    
    quite right CHARLOTTE. Here in Ireland they are now doing on the spot
    sheep inspections and a small number of farmers who had applied for grants
    for hundreds
    of sheep didn't have a single sheep! These clowns should be banned from
    all grants for 10 years, they rip us all off and give honest farmers a
    bad name. For some reason I don't understand, this kind of criminal
    fraud is not treated as it should be.
    
    ..Kevin..

    The Wicked Witch of the West arrives on Sunday with a view to parking
    her broomstick in our hall for two weeks.

    Due to a cock-up on the holiday schedules at Harry's practice he is
    unable to be there for the first week. Due to a second cock-up on my
    part I took two weeks off to look after her instead of just the one.

    So there will be nothing for you lot to read in here unless you write
    yourselves.

    Jamie.
                                             

    Re .61
    
    > A GENE that may be linked with nearly a third of breast cancers has
    > been discovered by scientists.
    
    Gerbil,
    
    Any idea where I can get more information on this news story?
    
    Cheers,
    Goldy.

But it is timing out at the moment.


Simon

    
    Re: 7.1248
    
 >  SECURITY weaknesses at the Maze jail were ignored for more than 13 years
 >  after they were revealed by a Government-ordered inquiry into the mass
 >  IRA breakout in 1983, The Telegraph has learned.
    
    So much for the current Government (RIP) being tough on crime.
    
    Chris
    

    All news stories come from the Electronic Telegraph.
    
    Point your web browser at www.telegraph.co.uk
    
    It's free to register!
    
    Kevin

    Thanks Gerbil.
    
    Goldy.

    
 >  TEACHERS claim that the new television comedy Chalk is a malicious
 >  travesty of life in a secondary school and gives their profession a bad
 >  name.
    
    Any teacher who takes that drivel seriously should be fired as should
    the script writers of said drivel and programme schedulers who allowed
    it airtime. Bring back Rimmer.
    
    Chris

    I've never seen said programme, but the couple of trailers I saw
    demonstrated something on an intellectual par with Crackerjack.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    I just happened to catch about 5 minutes of said rubbish the other
    night.  The script and acting was so appaling that it made one cringe.
    
    CHARLOTTE

    
    	mr::WINPENNY!
    	what's this about rimmer?
    	where'd he go???
    	who's the hologram taking his place??
    
    	i have oodles of questions.
    
    	aghast in nashua

    re .69
    
    >>I've never seen said programme, but the couple of trailers I saw
    >>demonstrated something on an intellectual par with Crackerjack.
    >>
    >>Cheers, Laurie.
    
    Compared with most of the juvenile-oriented (sp?) trash foisted upon
    the younger viewers by TV companies today, Crackerjack was the epitome
    of intellectual program making.
    
    Balders

    
    Denise,
    
    I don't know where Rimmer went. I missed the first few episodes of the
    current series and have not had it explained and I'm not sure I want to
    know, all I do know is that it misses him. The best episode of the
    current series was when they had the tribute to Rimmer, they should
    release the single.
    
    Re: .72
    
    Fully agree.
    
    Chris

    He turned into Ace Rimmer (sort of) and went off to save the universe.
    
    Goldy.

    
    	if you don't know, goldy, its alright to just say so.
    	goldfish haven't a brain the size of the universe,
    	and we all know that.

    
    Re: .76
    
 >  THE television programmes Blind Date and Gladiators encourage a growing
 >  addiction to real-life violence, a criminologist said yesterday.
    
    I can understand this, I've never seen Gladiators but on the few
    occasions I have catched a brief glimpse of Blind Date I've had an
    overwhelming desire to go out and do over the first red headed scouser
    I came across. Fortunately, probably for me, I haven't yet met such a
    person.
    
    Chris

I'm pleased to say I have never seen more than a few seconds' worth of blind
date, but I do rather enjoy Gladiators.

The young ladies do seem rather attractive and manage to build up quite a
swweat.  I'm not sure why the contestants don't get to wear quite such
revealing outfits, but nothing's perfect.

My wife tells me that some of the young gentlemen are also physically
attractive, though obviously not as much so as I am.

regards,
//alan

    Blind Date's enjoyable to watch IMHO.  I do dispair of some of the
    people, but there's usually the odd person who makes you laugh.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Chris

    I must confess that I do find myself watching Blind Date simply because
    it's the ultimate in corn and it's enjoyable to watch people making
    fools of themselves.  Also, I like the bit when they slag each other
    off after the date - best part of the show actually.
    
    As for gladiators, way too much hype and Americanism.  Nice bods
    though.
    
    CHARLOTTE

    Re 7.1257

    >"I have never nailed myself on the cross of three percent. When I said
    >in the past 'three percent means three percent' I did not necessarily
    >mean 3.0 percent," the Guardian quoted Waigel as saying.

    Is it just me, or is he using double talk to wriggle out of something
    he was most emphatic about earlier?

    Jamie.

    It's not just you, Jamie; heezawrigglin'... I still think it won't
    happen...
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    There will be a hitch in the main news service tomorrow as the medical
    profession once more requires the use of my body. Perhaps this time the
    scanner will actually work.

    Jamie.

    
    	one day is fine. but this 2 week business is unacceptable.

    >one day is fine. but this 2 week business is unacceptable.
        
    OK you have got a deal. I'll spend the two weeks at work, and you spend
    two weeks looking after Harry's mother, AKA the bigot's bigot.

    Jamie.

    Do we get a "What I did to my mother-in-law on my hols" note?
    
    Goldy.

    
    	so jamie,
    	what does the she-beast think of yanks??
    	i bet i could charm her with my basic sense
    	of humour and all.

    There is no way that I wish to relive such a horrible experience, never
    mind burdening you lot with it.

    Jamie.

    
    	aw come on, jamie, there has to be an interesting 
    	anecdote in there somewhere.

    Sample conversation.

    Her opinion on the film "Four weddings and a funeral."

    "I thought it was a terrible film. The only bit that I enjoyed was
    when the guy died, That made me laugh!"

    See what I mean?

    Jamie.

    All the more reason to post a full trip report.
    
    Please Jamie, she sounds hilarious.
    
    Goldy.

    	
    	and she's HARRY's mother!?!?
    	did she suffer a really bad menopause or something?

    Taxing Ciggarettes for health insurance is making a pact with the devil
    IMHO.  
    
    1.  The tax is supposed to generate X dollars while reducing new
    smokers by 15%.  If the new smokers drop as older ones quit or die
    off, how will they maintain the funding for insurance purposes?  Get
    the insured kids to take up the devil weed?  
    
    2.  The government says they are discouraging smoking.  By taxing it
    for a legitimate need, (Insurance for the children of the working poor)
    isn't the government lending legitimacy to tobacco?
    
    3.  Why not work on getting real insurance and medical reform in the
    US, instead of the hodgepodge mess that leaves some people insured, and
    others being one serious illness from the dole or bankruptcy?
    
    meg

    
    	i think the logic behind that one is to get the people
    	(smokers) where they hurt the most...not their own 
    	health or conscience...but in the wallet.
    
    	i'm not saying that is the perfect answer... 
    	but with all things being equal... it's a feasible
    	option.

    Yes the currency report is in a day early. Well Synod time has come
    round again ant tomorrow at this time I be heading south towards
    Masstricht to become the sole disbeliever amongst the faithful.

    Jamie.

    Re .97
    
    > Masstricht to become the sole disbeliever amongst the faithful.
    
    I thought the spelling was Maastricht?
    
    Goldy.

    yup

    
    I don't believe this spelling lark is still going on !
    I thought you might have got bored with that by now. 
    
    Later,
    Julie.
    

    Oh you missed all the good bits.
    
    Jamie.

    
    	play on words, i would think...
    	i mean, jamie's off to a mass/synod do and it's
    	in maastricht... etc...
    
    	shall i be more detailed, goldy?
    
    	<rolls her eyes in disbelief>

    
    Eight young thugs ranging in age from 14-17 have been sent to prison
    for the gang rape of an Austrian tourist. I get a lot of hassle off the
    wife about how the streets of England aren't safe for people to walk on
    but it must be said that in this case the offenders were of Columbian,
    Venezeuelan, Greek and Filipino origin, only the Greek was born in
    Britain. Now if it's considered racist to say that these people should
    be flogged and that they and their families should be sent back to
    whence they came then I'll be a racist.
    
    The only consolation is that now that they have gone to prison if there
    is any real justice then they shall encounter a taste of their own
    medicine.
    
    Chris

    Reply. .104
    
    Ditto.  Sick little monsters.

    re 104
    
    >> and their families
    
    The families of these people are innocent, are they not?
    
    If a member of your family commited a crime do you think you should be
    punished for it?
    
    Or are you calling for their punishment because of their origin?
    
    ..Kevin..

    Well said Chris.
    
    Gerbs, don't talk 2.12
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    >>Gerbs, don't talk 2.12
    
    Er um...?
    
    Whatdoyameanboy?
    
    gerbil$confused

    This wasn't the only crime that these yobs had committed. They spent
    much of their time out late at night mugging in order to feed their
    egos and in a couple of cases their drug habit. If their families had
    shown more control over their respective children this would have been
    less likely to occur, hence, in this case, the families are as much to
    blame.
    
    In general however, yes, negligent parents should be held responsible
    for the actions of their children, and I cannot see anything other than
    a negligent parent that would allow a 14 year old out on the streets
    until the early hours of the morning.
    
    There are cases of genuinely 'bad' children which no amount of effort
    other than that provided by the legal system could even attempt to
    control.
    
    Chris

    
    	sometimes even the parents can't control the kid...
    	so what happens then, eh??

    Retroactive abortion then becomes justified.
    
    Jamie.

    If parents can't control their own children, then those children should
    be taken from them, just as they would if they were abusing them in a
    more conventional way.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    
    	you make it sound so easy, laurie....
    
    	parents can't control the kid... so they have them taken
    	away... the kid becomes a ward of the state... tangled
    	in the bureaucracy of a cold government and becomes no
    	better off.
    
    	i think you're worsening the problem IMHO.

    
    Denise,
    
    If you'd bothered to read to the last paragraph I did make an exception
    for genuinely 'bad' children and I am in full agreement with Laurie,
    take them away from the society in which they have no place and put
    them somewhere where their criminal tendencies can be controlled and
    preferably beaten out of them.
    
    Chris

    
    	at a cost to the rest of the taxpayers, of course...
    	you know mr::CWINPENNY, if you'd keep your nose at a level
    	parallel to the ground you'd find that it isn't that
    	hard comprehending things ... even to the extent that 
    	perhaps you could begin to understand what the cost is 
    	to `regular folk', unlike you high payed scumbags...
    	laurie inclusive.

    
     Bundle! Bundle! 

re Chris .144.  How about Public Boarding school, keeps the riff raff 
out of normal everyday living, the parents can get on with whatever 
makes them happy (palying golf, going down the bingo, getting 
pissed..) without the responsibility.

Fancy helping to fund it Chris??

Andrea

    Public Boarding School ? No no no, what we need are Universities of
    Crime. Really shitty prisons with brutal regimes for 12 year olds. That
    should produce a generation of real head bangers alright.   All that
    liberal crap about rehabilitation and decent opportunity for youth is
    boring. Who cares about the crime rate? Let's just find a few examples
    of nasty crime to work out our prejudices on. And if there are a few
    wogs involved, well so what? Are we supposed to ignore it or what?

    Chocolate carrots?
    
    Ick!  Why not just encourage kids to garden?  Veggies taste better to
    my monsters when they are picked, the dirt rubbed off, and eaten right
    there in the sun.  Also, kids pick up a lot of what they eat/don't eat
    by what their parents do.  If veggies are approached as something you
    "have to eat" why bother liking them?
    
    meg

    I have also been wondering about these chocolate carrots.
    
    Correct me if I am wrong but surely children, especially in the
    formative years, will eat whatever their parents give them to eat? 
    Okay, fair enough, as they develop there will be certain flavours that
    they dislike, but surely not all vegetable flavours?  I would say the
    problem lies more in their conditioning, which IMO, is the parents'
    responsibility.
    
    Also, it seems a little strange that in encouraging children to follow
    a healthy diet, these vegetables are flavoured with pizza flavour etc, 
    - surely the flavourants and preservatives can't be that healthy anyway?
    Also, what about the sugar and fat content in the chocolate flavouring?
    
    CHARLOTTE

    >Correct me if I am wrong but surely children, especially in the
    >formative years, will eat whatever their parents give them to eat? 
    
    I didn't. I hated cooked vegetables with a blinding passion. There was
    only one attempt at insisting I ate a cooked vegetable, cooked turnip.
    I choked it down then vomited it across the table. This was completely
    effective.

    For some strange reason my mother has it stuck in her head the "fact"
    that raw vegetables are not good for you, and I quite like them raw.

    Jamie.
                                                                        

    that raw vegetables are not good for you, and I quite like them raw.

As a general rule, I pretty much dislike vegetables.  I suppose that some
folk must like them, but to me they're just some kind of muck that have to
be tolerated in order to get a 'balanced' diet.  I'd much rather be eating
good, red meat.

The only way in which I can tolerate vegetables is when they are raw, or
stir-fried so little that they are just as firm as when they're raw.

regards,
//alan

    My children like vegetables. They love raw carrots especially, and eat
    loads and loads of them.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    >Correct me if I am wrong but surely children, especially in the
    >formative years, will eat whatever their parents give them to eat?
    
    I hated vegetables as a child, tried them once and threw up, never
    tried them again.  Now I introduce the odd vegetable here and there,
    but generally they present the food of satan to me :-).
    
    I don't see what the fuss is about, some people don't like meat, so
    they don't eat it, I don't like vegetables so I don't eat them.
    
    This balanced diet stuff isn't dependant on vegetables anyway.  When I
    was young my mum took me to the doctors, he explained that I was
    getting the right balance so she could quit worrying.  
    
    
    Chris "I don't like peas" Sumner

    
    I like vegetables. In fact I will eat just about any food presented to
    me with the exception of olives which I personally wouldn't class as
    food anyway. I will refrain from giving my advice to young men about
    women who eat olives.
    
    Chris

    
    Re: 7.1417
    
    Brings a whole new meaning to the phrase, 'raising a stiffy'.
    
    Chris

    
    Rehabilitation? Nonsense. Lock 'em up and throw away the key. And it
    wouldn't cost so much if they weren't kept in the lap of luxury. They
    are meant to be in a prison not a five star hotel. They are there to be
    punished not pampered. If they are considered by wishy washy do-gooders
    to be too young to be sent to prison then send them to a work house
    until they are old enough. The main thing is to keep them out of
    society to prevent them comitting further crimes.
    
    Chris

    
    
    	mr::CWINPENNY,
    	you talk a load of gar-baaahge.

    Off with their goolies!

    Jamie.

    	
    Labour's lead down to 5% - 5 more glorious years for Britain ahead.
    
    Andrew
    

    That's good news Mr. Dodd. I think my prediction of an almost hung
    parliament is looking better all the time.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    
    Don't get your hopes up. It was one targeted poll with leading
    questions not directly aimed at who you will vote for but an assessment
    of probable voting tendencies based on answers given. All other direct
    polls out today still give Labour a 20 point lead.
    
    Chris

    Way back in 1974 I realised that opinion polls were more likely to be
    works of fiction rather than fact.

    Personally I have never answered a question truthfully whenever I get
    cornered by the ones with the clipboard. I somehow suspect that others
    do the same.

    Jamie.

    As usual, I'm with Jamie on this one.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    As usual, I'm with Jamie and Laurie on this one.
    
    Goldy.

    
    Re: .134
    
    You seem to be pretty much accepting them in .131
    
    Chris

    I was referring to Mr. Dodd's prediction, not the poll.
    
    HTH, Laurie.

    
    Mr. Dodd's prediction was based on a poll.
    
    And WTF is HTH
    
    I've figured it out and no it doesn't.
    
    Chris

Well I don't believe that that number of people can be so stupid and 
selfish to put the rest of the country through another 5 years of 
running down our social structure, introducing a make or buy policy 
into every aspect of society, further breakdown of health, education, 
transport, employment....  

Oh sorry I forgot Tory's don't see past their own comfortable little 
worlds and panic when they hear Labour incase they get a penny on income 
tax (never mind the tax burden is now as high as in 1979 - old 
labour!!!) , how their subsidies for little Johnnies private education 
might go and that the better off might actually be asked to contribute 
something to society other than producing "smart", middle class children 
to carry on in their footsteps and further widen the gap between the 
haves and have nots.  

I sincerely hope that the nation wakes up to itself and does not put 
them back in for a further 5 yers, regardless of "politics."  I don't 
believe in a magic wand and I am sure that a Labout Govt will make 
mistakes.. but to carry on with a govt who have fatally harmed the 
fabric of this country, created an underclass and a generation of young 
people who can't even be arsed to vote...  a new broom sweeps clean and 
who knows, you might even like the Blair regime - how do you know if you 
don't look up from your own navels (or its it backsides) and give it a 
try.  As the papers say, the two are looking more and more similar.. 

Angry yet hopeful

Andrea

    
    Middle class? I'm all for people wanting to improve their lot but what
    a dreadful thought that such a group could even think of considering
    themselves true blue. So from now on, upper class if you please.
    
    Chris

    re .139
    
    How quaint.
    
    Andrew
    
    PS A change would be good but only for the variety.
    
    AJD

    Can't remember what I heard, but apparently Labour aren't bringing back
    student grants as such.
    
    I'm not a student anymore, but I feel sorry for them.  They should
    really get free prescriptions like old codgers.  :-)
    
    Chris

    Sorry about the reduced number of news items and the format changes.
    CompuServe seem to have severed their links to the AP wire services and
    I had to scrounge around the web to find other sources. Hopefully by
    tomorrow I'll find better links.

    Jamie.

RE:               <<< Note 8.139 by CHEFS::16.42.3.208::CONNELLA >>>
                    -< WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BLOODY COFFEE >-

    As Mr. Dodds said, how quaint.
    
>> Oh sorry I forgot Tory's don't see past their own comfortable little 
                         ^
>> labour!!!) , how their subsidies for little Johnnies private education 
                                                      ^ 
    ODE (times two).
    
    Laurie$"smart".

    
    Re: 7.1458
    
 >  LIMA, April 23 (UPI) _ Peruvian President Alberto Fujimori denies that
 >  commandos involved in the dramatic rescue of 71 hostages were told to
 >  take no prisoners.
    
    As the phrase goes, and I'm the tooth fairy.
    
    Serves them right and will save more expense prosecuting them anyway.
    
    Chris

    re .144
    
    I think you might spell my name properly, Lorry.
    
    HGV
    
    Andrew

    Sorry, brain slippage, and that's the second time today I've typed your
    name as "Dodds". I plead burn-out and tiredness.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    
    	too piggin' lazy to do a quick check before hittin'	
    	return, if you ask me.

   >Tony Blair ...personally wouldn't send his kids to a government
   >funded school 

   Yes, he does. His son goes to a grant-maintained school. That's
   government funded. It's not a private (or "public") school. I
   personally may not agree with his decision, but that's another
   matter.

    Kids will pretty much develop similar tastes to what their parents do
    around veggies.  My kids help me in the garden from a very young age,
    and have quite the taste for veggies right off the plants, unwashed and
    warm from the sun.  
    
    I'm not much for cooked beggies with the exception of spinach pizza and
    quiches, but put up with them through the winter when fresh stuff is
    expensive and not very appealing or tasty.
    
    meg

    Re. 150
    
    <Yes, he does. His son goes to a grant-maintained school. That's
       government funded. It's not a private (or "public") school.>
    
    I believe the school in question is also funded by "contributions" from
    parents.  Either which way, it is not the type of institution that Mr
    Blair is advocating for the children of Joe Public.
    
    CHARLOTTE 

    Re. 151
    
    I agree that the parents' opinion could have a significant influence on
    a youngster's tastes.  To those of you who dislike veggies, what was
    your parents' opinion?  Also, I notice that most of you say that you
    will eat them raw but not cooked, so I take it that you don't mind
    salad then?
    
    CHARLOTTE  

    I agree that the parents' opinion could have a significant influence on
    a youngster's tastes.  To those of you who dislike veggies, what was
    your parents' opinion?  Also, I notice that most of you say that you
    will eat them raw but not cooked, so I take it that you don't mind
    salad then?
    
In my case, my parents both like vegetables.  My mother loves salads - I still
shudder at the very thought of yet another lettuce leaf when we go over to
visit them!

regards,
//alan

    >To those of you who dislike veggies, what was your parents' opinion? 
    
    My parents both enjoy veggies and tried to get me to eat them for
    years, until the Doctor told them it was pointless and I'd eat them if
    I wanted.  They gave up then, but people (granny, uncle, aunt etc)
    still tried to get me to eat "just one sprout".  I used to hate meals
    at relations for this very reason.  Now I just say that I don't like
    veggies, some people are very surprised and do try to get me to eat
    them.  Usually they're left at the side of the plate.
    
    Saying that, I now enjoy the odd grilled tomato, fried mushrooms and
    lettice and cucumber.  Radish, peas and sweetcorn still taste **** in
    my opinion so I don't eat them.
    
    At the end of the day it's choice,  I choose not to eat things I don't
    like.
    
    
    Chris.
                                

    Hating vegetables, in my case, seems to be a genetic trait, running
    down my mother's side of the family.

    I don't have an extreme case come of my cousins are much worse. I will
    eat most raw fruit and some raw vegetables. I also love milk, cheese
    etc.. Most of my cousins will will not eat any fruit, vegetable (cooked
    or raw) and hate milk and cheese.

    Since leaving Scotland I have run across quite a few of my fellow
    expatriates who have a marked aversion to vegetables.

    Like Chris I positively hated visiting do-gooders who tried to force
    me to eat vegetables.
    
    Jamie.                                                        

    I hate all veggies except carrots, cucumbers and potatoes. When I was a
    child, my mother would serve all kinds of food, including veggies. If I
    chose not to eat anything on the plate, she wouldn't mind, and would
    ensure that I was "fed" by offering me a bar of chocolate. On the other
    hand, my ex-husband was fed all kinds of food and if he didn't clear
    his plate he would have the meal re-served at the next meal and this
    would keep happening until he ate the food. He claims that this
    "forced" him to eat every and any food he was ever served, whereas I am
    very fussy about what I eat.
    
    My mother should have had more sense and tried to encourage me to
    try/eat all different kinds of food instead of just offering a
    chocolate bar if I said "I don't like that particular food". However,
    it's easy to say this with hindsight, my mother probably thought she
    was doing things for the best, ie, keep the child happy.
    
    Goldy.

    > On the other hand, my ex-husband was fed all kinds of food and if he 
    > didn't clear his plate he would have the meal re-served at the next meal 
    > and this would keep happening until he ate the food
	
    Chundering and yacking easily solves the above.
    
    Chris ;-)

    Re. 157
    
    Goldy,
    
    I think you raise an interesting point in this note, that being if
    children are made to eat what they are given they end up being less
    fussy about food.  If they are given a choice they become more
    selective.  
    
    I guess it is the same with animals.  Some puppies can be quite
    obstinate with their food and if they won't eat it, some owners are 
    inclined to change their food/brand resulting in the pet becoming
    selective and only eating certain food.  However, if you keep feeding 
    them the original food and they realise there is little choice, they 
    eventually end up liking it.  
    
    It's all psychological, I tell you :^)
    
    CHARLOTTE
                                        

One man and his dog, Pavlov...

    <----
    
    As in the stimulus being vegetables and the response being to vomit?:^)
    
    CHARLOTTE

    
    Re: .152
    
    Yes he is, but he's advocating it for all children not just those that
    have parents able to afford it. These assisted places are all very well
    but still don't cater for talented children of poor families as the
    Tories seem to think they do.
    
    It is the difference between looking upon socialism as dragging
    everybody down to the same level or up to the same level.
    
    Chris

    In the Netherlands tomorrow is the Queen's birthday, or Rabbit day as
    dear old Wendy used to call it. So upon the morrow I shall be making
    merry and frolicking around the streets of the local towns, whilst you
    lot sit staring at blank screen wondering what is going on in the
    world. 

    Jamie.

    
    Where's the news today then ?
    
    Julie.
    

    I think today Jamie is wandering the streets of Holland dressed as a rabbit
    or something.
    
    CHARLOTTE

    Do try to keep up, Jules.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    All the polls seem to be indicating that Labour have/will have a
    majority. I seem to remember that the polls in 1992 indicated the same
    yet the Conservatives were returned to power. Could this happen again?
    Tune in tomorrow morning and find out.
    
    Goldy.
    
    PS: It dawned on me last night that John Major is effectively
    re-applying for his own job!

Exactly, CHARLOTTE, which is why we need a change in Govt to ensure that 
it is not just "middleclass" children who have access to good education 
facilities and teaching.  A good quality education system for all and 
not for the top 10% is vital to the success of this country.

I am not against smart educated people, I am pro that choice being given 
to every child in this country.  I believe personally that we have more 
chance of achieving this with a Labour Govt who are commited to lowering 
class sizes rather than funding grammar schools for example.

Anyway todays the day so don't just hope for a Labour Government, Vote 
for a Labour Government!!

Andrea

>I am not against smart educated people, I am pro that choice being given 
>to every child in this country.  I believe personally that we have more 
>chance of achieving this with a Labour Govt who are commited to lowering 
>class sizes rather than funding grammar schools for example.

Andrea,

The Labour party claims that they will reduce class sizes but don't tell us
where the money for that is coming from.  If you really believe that this is
an important issue, you should probably vote LibDem.  That party at least is
honest enough to say "it will cost more taxes to pay for better educationsal
standards."

regards,
//alan

    So,
    	Any news on the early exit polls then?
    
    	I'm attempting to get the hinote into Virgin Radio but the
    network's a real dog today
    
    gerbil$Voted_Weeks_ago

    
    There should not be any political news until after the polling stations
    have closed. Whether that extends to exit polls I'm not too sure.
    
    Chris

    
    If that's the case it doesn't apply to Ireland anyway, just heard on
    the radio that the exit polls show Labour in front.
    
    Chris

    Being a wicked sort of goldfish, if I was asked in an exit poll how I'd
    voted, I'd lie!
    
    Goldy.

    I well remember the first time I voted. As I left I was pounced upon by
    the exit pollsters, who inquired which way I had voted. I pointed out
    that it was a secret ballot and I had no intention of telling them. One
    said that as it was just an exit poll it didn't matter. 

    I continued to decline. Another said that I must tell them. I offered
    to go back inside the polling station and have that "fact" verified by
    the election officials. This brought a sudden back down on the part of
    the pollster.

    A third asked nicely and I just said."What if I tell you a lie like he
    just did?" They let me go after that.

    Jamie.

    So today's the day we get to choose between the fat-cat Capitalists and
    the hopelessly optimistic Socialists :^)
                                                                
    I'm gonna vote for the Green Party and if anyone asks me who I voted for,
    I will lie, unshamedly, and say the Monster Raving Loonies.  
    
    BTW, in South Africa I think is is illegal for canvassers to ask you
    who you voted for.  It certainly goes against election protocol.  
    
    CHARLOTTE

    Talking about Monster Raving Loonies, I met the candidate for Wokingham
    at a fireworks party, hosted by none other than former EFer, John Bennet. 
    This guy was dressed in a great big yellow, inflatable banana costume. 
    When he told me he was standing for election I really thought he was
    kidding and I started to "take the mick", as you do.  He turned out be
    be a really interesting and effortlessly charming guy.
     
    Apparently, part of the Raving Loonies manifesto is passports for pets
    and the creation of pathways for hedgehogs, which sounded very good at the
    time, although upon reflection, I suspect it was the alcohol talking.  
    Needless to say, CHARLEY still claims he is going to vote for them.
    
    CHARLOTTE
                                                         

    RE: 7.1564
    
    When, oh when (rhetorical question) will people learn that Big Ben is
    the bell in the tower, not the tower, and not the clock?
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    Due to the fact that the Dutch compress all their public holidays, with
    the exception of Christmas and New Year, into the 7 week stretch
    between Easter and Whitsun, the news service will once more be
    disrupted until Monday.

    So while you lot are slogging it out and wondering what is going on in
    the world, I'll be enjoying a 4 day weekend.
    
    Jamie.

    Same for me except I should be poking my head in on Friday so I'll
    attempt to throw VNS in here
    
    Gerbil$happy_to_see_the_sun_is_back_today

    
    	it's so unbecoming to brag like that, jamie.
    

    Kittens, here I come.

    See you all Monday.

    Jamie.

    
    	thanks gerbs...
    	a little something to go with my coffee.

    This evening Harry and I will entrust the kitten's welfare to Barbi as
    we hightail it south to Paris.  There we will make merry and enjoy the
    last Dutch public holiday until Christmas. To avoid holiday traffic we
    have taken the Friday and Tuesday off as well. So you will have to chat
    amongst yourselves until Wednesday.

    Mind you, any of you who have access to the internet could download the
    Electronic Telegraph and shove it in here.

    Jamie.

    
    Not in the news but BT may fight any plans for a windfall tax in the
    courts. They only made 3.2 billion pounds profit last tax year and
    claim that this is not excessive as it is just about equal to their
    payroll bill. This means that for every pound a BT employee earns a
    pound is donated to some capitalist share holder sitting on his/her fat
    arse doing nothing. If I were a BT employee supposedly rewarded for
    productivity I'd be rather disturbed by this and demand at least a 50%
    pay increase.
    
    Chris

    This means that for every pound a BT employee earns a
    pound is donated to some capitalist share holder sitting on his/her fat
    arse doing nothing. 

I think this translates -- in reality -- to "a pound is donated to City
institutions managing the saving and pension funds of individuals throughout
the world"

regards,
//alan

    Not all profit goes to shareholders and fat cats. Quite a lot goes back
    in to the business.
    
    Andrew

    Shareholders only get a dividend, they don't actually get the
    "profits".
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    
    Whatever, it's not going to the poor sods who earned it.
    
    Chris

    And I'm a shareholder in BT.
    
    Jamie.

    >>"a pound is donated to City institutions managing the saving and pension 
    funds of individuals throughout the world"
    
    
    Well that would be nice wouldn't it, if that was how wealth is
    distributed. But that is not the way things are is it ? Estimates of
    these things are suspect in my book, but 3% owning 70% is not an
    unreasonable guess in my book.
    
    Then there is the little matter of how the pension funds are managed. 
    Robert Maxwell was rather bril at it wasn't he?
    
    ..Kevin..
    

    Side effects of marijuana, like drwsieness?  I take it these people
    don't believe in treating pain with opiates either.
    
    meg

    Personally I do not see why marijuana is banned and the ban imposed
    with such ferocity. Smoking tobacco is much more prevalent and tobacco
    smokers tend to smoke a lot more.

    I have tried it, and unlike Clinton I actually inhaled. (BTW it is not
    illegal in the Netherlands). It was a bit like the USA or a theme park,
    a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.
    
    Jamie.

    I'm with Jamie on this one.
    
    I like the odd piece of SpaceCake but I happily live without it.
    
    Here it's freely available	;-)
    
    Kevin

Apparently it is quite a good pain killer, is this true?

Simon$prolapsed_disc_/_sciatica

    RE:                      <<< Note 8.190 by 45080::CWINPENNY >>>
    
>>    Whatever, it's not going to the poor sods who earned it.
    
    Chris, without the investors (shareholders), the company wouldn't have
    had the money to invest to create the wealth and the jobs in the first
    place. Not only that, but didn't those "poor sods" get paid a wage?
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    
    As far as I remember it was a public utility and the current round of
    shareholders came in later to reap the benefits with virtually no risk,
    so in this case I don't think that argument is valid.
    
    Chris

    As far as I remember it was a public utility and the current round of
    shareholders came in later to reap the benefits with virtually no risk,
    so in this case I don't think that argument is valid.

Again, I've got to disagree.  Grantedm the risk was nothing like that which
one would face starting a new company from scratch.  However, there was still
a whole pile of money had to be funnelled into rebuilding the UK phone network
pretty much from scratch.

To be honest, I think they've done a fine job.  I just wish we were as good at
making profit.  And I wish our salaries were as good as those of my Uni
contemporaries who are working at Martlesham!

regards,
//alan

    Wot 'e said. BT is a bloody good company these days, and has changed
    out of all recognition.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    
    	ad,
    
    	thank you so very much for giving me the news to go
    	with this morning's coffee.
    
    	it is very appreciated, and i'm so grateful to you.
    
    	shall i lick your bootheels?
    
    	denise

    
    BT was given away, as were most of the other utilities.
    
    Chris

    As they were nationalised industries, it is perfectly appropriate that
    they were offered at a discount.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

I saw a documentary about the process of selling BT off on TV some time ago.
The big problem was that nobody knew what appetite the public would have for
selling off a nationalised industry.

A sucessful sell-off was essential (ie, all the shares had to be sold).  So
the price was deliberately left low.  However, the folk in charge were not
sure up until about the second last day that they would be able to sell all
the shares at the asking price.

So I think it's unfair to accuse the BT sell-off as being excessively cheap.
It may be a valid accusation against subsequent sell-offs, but that's a
different discussion.

Have a good weekend, y'all

regards,
//alan

PS Thanks to Andy and Kevin for signing my guest book.  I tried mailing Kevin
and my mail bounced, I promised myself I'd reply to Andy after reading his
'whingeing Pom' tales.  I'm still not at the end of them :-)

    
    Brown,
    
    I can recognize a wind-up when I see one.
    
    Chris

    
    	yeah, but how many times were you  wrong, mr::CWINPENNY?

    
    Wrong? What a novel concept.
    
    Chris

    
    	you delude yourself, mr::CWINPENNY.
    	then again, isn't that what makes you what you are?

    
    Re: 7.1906
    
 >  ONE third of children think that oranges sold in shops and supermarkets
 >  are grown in Britain, while 90 per cent believe that tomatoes are
 >  exotic fruits which are only produced abroad, according to a survey
 >  published today......
    
    It would be interesting to know what the parents of these children knew
    as well.
    
    Chris

    Years ago I met an American in Ipswich; we worked together for a while.
    He had two University degrees, and came from a wealthy New York family.
    He confessed that until he came to England and saw peas in the pod in
    the shops, he believed that peas were made in a factory... Nothing
    surprises me any more.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    
    Re: 7.2008
    
    If I heard correctly on the radio this morning the bloke is 'allowing'
    the abortion to go ahead.
    
    So much for the Scots wanting independence if they go crying to the
    House Of Lords when they can't get their own way.
    
    Chris

    Let me get this straight if I can.
    
    This man beat up the mother of his 18-month-old and tossed her out of
    the house, and now he....
    
    1.  Wants to gain custody of the daughter that is 18 months despite
    evidence that he uses women for punching bags.
    
    2.  Wanted to force his future ex wife to have another baby so he could
    also have custody of it as well.
    
    3.  Feels he is the agrieved party, despite items 1 and 2?  
    
    
    
    

>    Let me get this straight if I can.
>    
>    This man beat up the mother of his 18-month-old and tossed her out of
>    the house, and now he....

Was the violence ever proven?  He should be treated as innocent until proven
guilty.
    
>    1.  Wants to gain custody of the daughter that is 18 months despite
>    evidence that he uses women for punching bags.

That seems a trifle emotive, Meg.  There is an allegation that he hit _one_
woman.
    
>    2.  Wanted to force his future ex wife to have another baby so he could
>    also have custody of it as well.

A man is 50% responsible for the conception, and is held to be 50% responsible
for providing for a child.  It seems reasonable that he should have some
choice in whether the child is born or not.  
    
>    3.  Feels he is the agrieved party, despite items 1 and 2?  
    
I'd say he has more of a case than most of the media seems willing to admit.

regards,
//alan

    
    Does anybody know why there are strikers outside the Belgian office
    today ?
    
    Julie.
    

    So much for the Scots wanting independence if they go crying to the
    House Of Lords when they can't get their own way.

1. Trust me, we don't _all_ want independence.
2. The House of Lords is the highest court with jurisdiction over Scotland
   (EU bodies excepted).  Where else should we go for legal redress?

regards,
//alan

    Re .213

    >Was the violence ever proven?  He should be treated as innocent until
    >proven guilty.

    7.2008

    >During the case, the courts heard that Mr Kelly was convicted a year
    >ago of assaulting his wife.
    
    He is guilty.

    >A man is 50% responsible for the conception, and is held to be 50%
    >responsible for providing for a child.  It seems reasonable that he
    >should have some choice in whether the child is born or not.  
    
    7.2022

    >Mrs Kelly, who is contracted to the Daily Record, has alleged that her
    >husband had "a secret love child" - a three-year-old girl whom, she
    >claimed, he had not seen for nine months.

    Looks like his track record to date tends to indicate that he is not
    keeping his end of the bargain. So why should he have the right to force
    a woman to bear yet another of his children?
    
    Jamie.

    This man was on breakfast TV and he was quite clear that he had stopped
    because he could not afford to continue. He could not afford to clarify
    the law, someone else would have to do that.
    
    Andrew

    
    Re: .214
    
    National holiday? Sun's shining? Workers council felt like a day off?
    An 'employee' was asked to button up his shirt for showing too much
    chest hair?
    
    I was going to ask that if you are in Belgium say hello to all my old
    friends but then I realised that they've all left.
    
    Chris

    The law doesn't seem to need clarification. He was only given leave to
    appeal on the technicality that he brought the case in Scotland.

    His possibility of winning was zero. In the UK the fetus does not have
    any rights if the mother wishes to have an abortion.

    Jamie.

    
    Re: 29.20
    
    And why is that topic write locked?
    
 >  -- In April, the town council of Cambre, in Galicia  state in northern
 >   Spain, voted legal, marriage-like status to nontraditional unions, but
 >  the controversy was not over a  same-sex couple. The precipitating
 >  event was the recent  nuptials of Daniel Pena and his sister Rosa Moya
 >  Pena, who  have lived together for 18 years and have kids aged 5 and
 >  11. The council's decision provoked outrage almost everywhere else in
 >  Spain.
    
    This is not quite as reported. The two people in question were
    seperated during childhood and hadn't seen each other for years and
    started a normal relationship upon meeting. It wasn't until much later
    that couple realised they were brother and sister and by then they were
    too far down the road anyway. As far as I know it is only the church
    which is upset by this.
    
    The article doesn't give the males full name otherwise it would be
    easier to say if they had the same mother as the children take their
    parents surnames, for example our boy is Eduardo Winpenny Tejedor,
    taking my surname first then his mothers. This may have given an
    indication to the couple that they were related but Pena as a surname
    in Spain is not far from Smith in England.
    
    Chris

Apart from the question of in-breeding of any children, why is it considered
wrong for a brother and sister to have sexual relations?

regards,
//alan$only_child

    And why is that topic write locked?

    To stop you carrying on a discussion in a topic that is used for
    putting news of the weird in.

    Jamie.

    
    So why not a "Comments on the News Of The Weird" topic?
    
    Chris

    Feel free to start one if you think there is a need.
    
    Jamie.

    RE: Men being tied to their mothers apron strings etc etc.
    {I can't remember the exact passage now, but it was a comment by some
     journo at Bella.  Well in response to her paragraph..}
    
    What's wrong with that then ?
    
    My mum and I have a great relationship, I live in Basingstoke, my
    parents live in Nottingham.  I phone them at least once a week (usually
    more) and see then at least once a month (usually more).
    
    I'll also admit that mum does my washing and ironing if I'm visiting
    and if I have any.  Mum asks if I have any washing when I go up, then
    she'll do it.  I certainly don't ask her to and I don't expect it.  I'm
    perfectly capable of living outside my parents apron strings.
    
    I'm sure it's all a product of a good upbringing and probably always
    has been.  I hope to do the same for my children some day - and why
    not ?
    
    
    Chris 

    
    Doesn't sound like you're tied to your mother's apron strings to
    me, Chris. Sounds like you have a good close relationship.
    
    The usual scenario in my mind is that of the over-protective mother
    who can't face seperation from her child(ren), arguably because she
    has little sense of 'self' left due to sacrifices she made to raise
    the kids (Giving herself little time/resource for personal growth).
    This is then compounded by the young adult who can't be bothered to
    grow up and learn to be alone, again arguably due to having been over
    protected all along.
    
    Andy/.

    Ah-ha, point taken.
    
    Can't help feeling the article is a load of old tosh though.  
    
    Chris
    PS. How's things in Oz Andy ?  seen Anil recently ?

    
     No one article on subjects emotional can hope to capture a true
    image of all cases. These particular types generally just give
    positive strokes to the majority of their perceived readership
    and reaffirm commonly held beliefs. No point rocking the boat,
    especially when it is carrying the payload.
    
    A/.
    
    Ps. Good. Yep. I've sent you some mail, Chris.

    Compuserve is suffering from a major screw-up, all services are
    temporarily suspended via the normal route. I have cobbled together
    some from other sources and I'll pick up the Electronic Telegraph
    later.

    Next week we have visitors who have no car. So I have the week off to
    drive them round. Next week looks like being a no news week.

    Jamie.

    
    	DOOMED! we're ALL DOOMED!!!

    As Jamie is away I'll attempt to do VNS this week but no promises
    after the morning hospital visit I really have little time before the
    deadlines...
    
    gerbil$YoYo

    
    	thanks, gerb!!!

    
    	thanks again, gerb...
    
    	my question is why would scientist want ronnie kray's brain?
    	to try to clone psychopathic tendencies?