Conference vaxcat::ef97

    "A general election? Oh goody!" said the Chinaman as he entered the
    orgy.

    Jamie.

    I fear the worst, I expect the worst, but I suspect Mr. Blair's majority
    will be less than 10.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    I'm confussed, they're all so similar.  
    
    Here are my needs/wishes, now who should I vote for ?
    
    1) Improved NHS (And more funding for other services).
    2) Better schools/education (Better grants fro students, even the great
       unwashed get more funding then students).
    3) Similar or (even better) lower interest rates.
    4) Similar or (even better) lower tax.
    5) No motorway tolls (WTF do they do with Road Tax ?)
    6) Better, highly available public transport with no penalties for
       private car users who choose not to you public transport.
    7) No more lies.  (Tall order this one).
    
    The list probably goes on, but on the Tory record I think they will
    probably mess the above points up totally and labour will probably have
    a good go at screwing us, so who do I vote ?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Chris
     

    
    Well, it's in the bag for Labour, they've got The Sun on their side. A
    phrase involving rats and sinking ships comes to mind.
    
    One Tory MP commented that the minds of people won't be made by what
    they read in a newspaper however he was obviously overlooking two
    critical points. One that Sun readers can't and second that even if
    they could it would tax what little mind that they have to get past
    page 3. Seeing as that nice Mr.Murdoch has a big interest in satellite
    TV no doubt he'll get his views over to the great unwashed one way or
    another.
    
    Re: .3, Chris, if you have to ask who to vote for you'd better vote
    Liberal or whatever they are called these days.
    
    Chris

    Liberal, what colour are they then ;-)

    Hoorah, I shall be in San Francisco on May 1st, with any luck, the most
    I'll be aware of the election is when they announce the result on the
    nightly news just after the amusingly shaped potato item.
    
    Richard 

    Will Mr Potter be spoiling his ballot again?
    
    Just so I can look completely silly on May 2nd...
    
    I predict no absolute majority. The Tories form a coalition government
    and another election within the year.
    
    Andrew

    Will Mr Potter be spoiling his ballot again?
    
Well, let's look at the options:

Labour.  I simply have no idea what they really stand for.  It's true that Blair
has ripped apart most of the things that I most loathed about the labour party
(eg nationalisation commitments, indebtedness to trades unions, insane fiscal
policy, etc).  But I look at local councils which shut schools and give money to
women's organisations, which raise council tax while sending the councillors on
fact-finding junkets worldwide, and I baulk at the thought of voting for them.

Tories.  The party I would naturally support.  I think that they are probably
the most competent on the economy, but they have been in power too long, and are
getting arrogant.  The way the government screwed Rosyth to give a major
contract to a shipyard in Devon which patently could not do the job, is simply
obscene and I would punish them for that.  So I won't vote for them.

LibDems.  The only national party left that appears to be left-wing.  I don`t
like their federal policy, trying to add an extra tier of government.  I pay
enough to keep governments going already, I don`t want more government.  I also
find their anti-car rants immensely annoying.

ScotNats.  No, sorry - I don't believe that people half a mile north of the
border are different from those half a mile south.  I want fewer borders, not
more.  So even leaving aside their brain-dead socialism, I just hate the idea of
nationalism.

That's the options, and there's none that appeals.  If I still lived in
Bannockburn, I would probably vote for Michael Forsyth.  I know he's pretty
right-wing, but he fights hard for Scotland in general and his constituents in
particular.  But now I live in Falkirk East, and that is _not_ a marginal
consitituency.

I think I shall be spoiling my paper again.

regards,
//alan

    RE: .7
    
    I vacillate between your position, Mr. Dodd, and the one I expressed
    earlier.
    
    RE: .8
    
    That sort of sums it up for me. It's a poor old do. Luckily, I forgot
    to send my ex-pat voting form back last October, and so can't vote this
    year. I do live in a marginal seat.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    With the Tory Party running somewhere between 22% and 28%, depending on
    which way the wind is blowing, behind the Labour party, and the fact
    that most people are sick to death of Tory policies, I can't really see
    that they have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

    As to the Sun switching sides. It has been noticed in the past that
    Rupert Murdoch likes to back winners and then brag about it. In any
    event I doubt if anyone reads the Sun to form political opinions.

    Jamie.
                                                          

    Problem is spoiling your vote, means someone's going to get in, and it
    maybe the party you really don't want! So you'd best vote for someone!
    
    Greg

    Re. 11
    
    I must say that I agree.  Personally, I think they are all a bunch of
    complete morons and I am sick of their hollow promises and self-seeking
    policies.  The Conservatives are experts at sweeping things under the
    carpet and blaming everybody else for their incompetence, while Labour are
    masters of hypocrisy and short sightedness.  However, spoiling one's 
    ballot in protest is just a waste of time - I would rather just abstain 
    alltogether.
    
    I still don't know who to vote for - perhaps, better the devil you know... 
    
    CHARLOTTE
                                                                  

    Maybe there should be a box titled "None of the above"
    
    Chris

What annoys me is those people who don't vote or even 
worse refuse to register as a political statement, then
complain about the the governement that gets in.

Even more annoying is that they think they have a greater
right to complain than the voter has and can't comprehend 
that fact.

Simon

   What annoys me is those people who don't vote or even 
   worse refuse to register as a political statement, then
   complain about the the governement that gets in.

Agreed - one thing that I accept if I do choose to spoil my ballot paper is 
that my right to complain about the government we end up with is at best 
severely limited.

regards,
//alan

I suppose it is a bit like refusing to enter a competition
to win an Escort, then complaining it isn't a BMW.

:-)

Simon

    No,  I think it's more like a choice between Liver and Liver Stew
    (presumming you don't like liver) and then complaining that you're
    hungry when you don't eat it.
    
    It's all very well having a choice if you've got something to choose
    from.
    
    Does that make sense....I don't know...
    
    Chris
    
    

    
    	hey chris!
    	what's new on the willy front???

    Shhhhh, not here ::DENISE.
    
    Actually I don;t know, haven't heard from him for ages, think he;s been
    abducted by aliens (that's the only reasonable explanation now).
    
    Chris
    PS. Sorry to clogg this note up....

    
    	like anybody is goint to CARE, chris.
    
    	i think you'd better send out your version of the cavalry,
    	toute suite!!!
    
    	p.s. i'm not.

    
    When Michael Heseltine was asked this morning on Radio 4, "Seeing as
    how the majority of the Cabinets children attend public school what
    does this say for the handling of the education system over the last 19
    years?"
    
    His response, "I suppose you'd better ask Tony Blair". This either
    means his Governemnt has no defined policy on education other than to
    let it rot or Mr.Blair has been setting the education policy of the
    current Government. I doubt it's the latter.
    
    He then waffled on about giving parents choice. The only choice I can
    see for parents is to pay for a place in a public school or trust your
    chances with a run down underfunded education system. Now obviously
    Mr.Blair wants the best for his children and it is a crying shame that
    the only way he can get this is by taking his children out of the state
    system.
    
    Chris

    I think Mr Blair should be commended for paying for his own children's
    education and thus removing some of the load on the state schools.

    Jamie.

    Sorry, Chris, but I don't believe the UK school system is under-funded.
    
    It's been raped over the years by trendy, liberal, wishy-washy
    so-called educationalists, who threw away the perfectly good Grammar
    School system and replaced it with the so-called Comprehensive system,
    and then screwed that up. Believe me, if there were a decent
    state-funded system, then people like me wouldn't be paying 14K a year
    for public schools. Throwing money at State education won't fix its
    problems. It's rotten to the core, and all thanks to that stupid
    Shirley Williams and her left-wing political agenda and ideology.
    
    That said, Heseltine should know better than to duck a perfectly good
    question and try to turn it into a school-boy taunt.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

>    Sorry, Chris, but I don't believe the UK school system is under-funded.
 
>    It's been raped over the years by trendy, liberal, wishy-washy
>    so-called educationalists, who threw away the perfectly good Grammar
>    School system and replaced it with the so-called Comprehensive system,
>    and then screwed that up. Believe me, if there were a decent
>    state-funded system, then people like me wouldn't be paying 14K a year
>    for public schools. Throwing money at State education won't fix its
>    problems. It's rotten to the core, and all thanks to that stupid
>    Shirley Williams and her left-wing political agenda and ideology.
 
Agree 100% but that was 20+ years ago.

>    That said, Heseltine should know better than to duck a perfectly good
>    question and try to turn it into a school-boy taunt.

He ducked it because he knows the Cons have made a bad situation far
worse. The ONLY interest the Cons have in education, as with most things
people care about, is how they can make political gain from it and hang
on to power.

>    Cheers, Laurie.

Rgds, Steve.

    
    Re: .23
    
    No need to be soory old bean, differences of opinion and all that.
    
    Chris

    Re .23
    
    > No need to be soory old bean, differences of opinion and all that.
                    ^^^^^
    ODE.
    
    Goldy.

Time to make your predictions known:

I say Labour, with an overall majority of 48 seats.  

And if so, pity me, for I live in Scotland and - if Labour sticks to its
promises - am about to get an extra tier of government.

regards,
//alan

    I refer the honourable member to the answer I gave some moments ago
    (.7)
    
    My greatest wish is that Harrogate elects the Lib-Dem candidate or we
    will be doomed to 5 years of Norman Lamont smiling from the local
    paper. Or more likely we won't as he still lives down south. We have 2
    4 foot square lib dem boards in our garden.
    
    I shall be voting Tory for the local council.
    
    Andrew
    
    PS It was quaintly British, as I drove over to OLO this morning to see
    the "Polling Station" signs going up on shool halls, tin sheds etc in
    the bright spring sunshine.

>    We have 2 4 foot square lib dem boards in our garden.
>    I shall be voting Tory for the local council.
    
Talk about bucking the trend!  Most folk expect poeple to vote Tory or
Labour at the general elections and LibDem for local!

>    PS It was quaintly British, as I drove over to OLO this morning to see
>    the "Polling Station" signs going up on shool halls, tin sheds etc in
>    the bright spring sunshine.

Yeah, I had the same thought myself!

regards,
//alan

    Not really Alan. I am being entirely consistent. I'm voting for the
    man, and what I think he has to offer.
    
    I do not want Norman Lamont as my MP - the Lib Dem has worked hard on
    the local council for years. If he wants to go on to be an MP that's
    fine by me.
    
    The Tory local councillor works hard for local issues. The council is
    run by the Lib-dems.
    
    In both cases I believe that too large a majority is a bad thing,
    witness what has happened to the Tories, arrogance and complacency.
    
    I rest my case.
    
    Andrew

I wasn't trying to suggest that you were in any way wrong, far from it.

WHat I was noting was that you are going the opposite way from the "received
wisdom" of the way that our electoral system tends to work.

We tend to be told that LibDems do well at local level because -- as you
observed -- LibDem councillors seem to be pretty savvy and work hard for their
constituents.  They tend to believe in local service and they aren't merely
using their council works as a holding area while they win brownie points to
let them stand as MPs.

That's all!

regards,
//alan

    Today, for the first time in a very long time, I read The Sun, which
    sports a picture of Tony Blair, the gold sparkly hand and the slogan,
    "It must be you" on the frontpage.
    
    I know that they have recently changed camps, but the amount of
    political bias in today's copy is utterly comical.
    
    CHARLOTTE 

    I still haven't decided who to vote for.
    
    Goldy.

    If I had a vote, I'd vote Tory for both national and local gummints.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    
    If I had a vote, I'd vote Labour for both national and local gummints.
    
    But back home I don't think they'll miss my vote.
    
    Chris

    
    Well after watching the Election results 'live' on the Web, it looks
    like Labour are back in power. In a way I'm glad that they're in, but
    then again, I'm glad I'm out of the country just in case they make a
    complete 2.12 of it all.
    
    POL$never_voted_Labour_in_his_life 

    RTw  02-May-97 06:39    

    Latest state of parties in British election

    Copyright 1997 Reuters Ltd.  All rights reserved.
  
    LONDON, May 2 (Reuter) - Following is a breakdown of the number of
    parliamentary seats each party has won so far in Britain's election,
    the share of votes each has polled, and the estimated final tally of
    seats for each party, with 615 results in from Britain's 659
    constituencies - 

     CONSERVATIVES.......151 (151 held, 172 lost) 
     LABOUR..............413 (270 held, 143 gained) 
     LIBERAL DEMOCRATS....40 (13 held, 27 gained, 2 lost) 
     OTHERS...............11 (7 held, 4 gained) 
     Average swing to Labour from Conservatives - 10.4 percent 
     Projected final total of seats according to BBC estimate - 
     CONSERVATIVES.......164 
     LABOUR..............420 
     LIBERAL DEMOCRATS....46 
     OTHERS...............29 
     Predicted majority for Labour - 181 

    Share of the vote so far - Conservatives 31 percent, Labour 45 percent,
    Liberal Democrats 17 percent 

    REUTER

    Well as you see from the previous reply it was not so much a landslide
    for Labour it was more of a rout of the Tories.

    Five cabinet ministers are now looking for honest work these include
    the Foreign Secretary, Riffkin and the Minister of Defence, Portillo.

    After 18 years in opposition Labour is now in with its biggest majority
    ever. The promised land should therefore be just round the corner.

    Jamie.

    The promised land is always just round the corner.

    Labour 417

    Tory   160

    LibDem  40

    Other   11
    
    Current Labour majority 216

    Martin Bell, former war correspondent for the BBC and anti-sleaze
    candidate has taken the seat of Niel Hamilton with a 20,000 majority.

    Re .38
    
    > The promised land should therefore be just round the corner.
    
    I just hope they can deliver the promises they have made.
    
    Goldy.

    Anyone know where I can get hold of the current Labour Party manifesto
    so I can determine in greater detail what these promises entail ?
    
    Rik

    
    I am happy with the result, regardless of who I voted for, as I think a
    bit of new blood can't do the country any harm. And they've only got 4
    years to prove it one way or the other anyway. 
    
    Julie. 
    

So what happens next? Blair get's in, picks his cabinet, then what?

Is there a budget?
A massive announcement with loads of new policies?

Greg (never seen a change of government in my voting life before)

    Goodness Greg, I'd forgotten you were a youngster too!
    
    I too would be interested to (now) read the Labour Party Manifesto. I
    saw the Con and LB ones on sale in Tesco's but not Labour's. I wonder
    if it's available on the world-wide wibble wobble.
    
    Goldy.

    Re. 42
    
    The manifesto is on the web.  
    
    Re. 44
    
    Well, there certainly will be a cabinet re-shuffle and then I expect Mr
    Blair will embark on his first foreign visit to meet with other world
    leaders to discuss "investment and foreign policy" over copious
    quantities of cognac and Havana cigars :^)
    
    CHARLOTTE

    Re .46
    
    Where?
    

    In gentlemens' clubs? :^)
    
    Goldy, if you mean the manifesto, I used altavista and then searched for
    "Labour". 
    
    CHARLOTTE

    Ah.
    
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/election97/framedir/partiesframe.htm
    
    http://www.labour.org.uk
    
    Goldy.

    You can download a text version of the Labour manifesto from
    
    http://www.labourwin97.org.uk/manifesto/britain/manifesto.txt
    
    Goldy.

    John Major has just announced that he will be stepping down as leader
    of the Conservative Party.
    
    Balders

    My that is a surprise. I hope he packed all his things last night.
    
    Jamie.

    Doesn't surprise me, except that he made the announcement so quickly.
    
    Goldy.

    
    I'm extremely happy with the result especially the downfall of the
    large number of 'safe' Tory seats and even more so at the downfall of
    Finchley.
    
    Not so much a landslide as a culling.
    
    Chris

    Unfortunately the various service providers drastically misjudged the
    interest that the election would cause on the web. As a result I cannot
    attach to the special web sites covering the election nor to the
    Electronic Telegraph for general news.

    Jamie.

    This is a very grim day indeed. Not so much because the Tories lost,
    because as I've said before, in many ways they not only deserved it,
    but needed it. It's a grim day because Labour now have a mandate and a
    majority to do whatever they like. It was noticable in the campaign
    that all the nutters kept very quiet, and no real meat whatsoever was
    put on the bones of Labour's promises.
    
    It's a grim day because Labour, notwithstanding the nutters crawling
    out of the woodwork and from under their rocks, will now cede all
    sovreignty to Brussels, sign us up to the Social Chapter, join a single
    currency, and generally destroy the only healthy economy in Europe. I
    don't even want to think what they'll do to education.
    
    At least Suffolk stayed blue.
    
    Yep, it's a grim day indeed.
    
    Looking on the positive side, I suppose my house in the Channel Islands
    is leaping in value by the minute, and after all, I am an ex-pat.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    Although all the results are not yet in...
    
    The labour party do not really have that much bigger a mandate than the
    tories had.
    
    In the 1992 election the tories polled 42% of the votes cast, so far
    labour are on about 44%. This is in part due to boundary changes and
    the quirks of the electoral system. I would also suggest that it shows
    a considerable amount of voting for the candidate most likely to remove
    the sitting tory - in other words tactical voting on a scale never seen
    before.
    
    Andrew

    Tactical voting = boot the buggers out?

    Jamie.

    >>>generally destroy the only healthy economy in Europe
    
    the what??
    
    Excuse me please while I hold my side and have a good giggle.
    
    ..Kevin.. 

    Well some good news, the pound is beginning to drop, It is two  Dutch
    cents down on its value this morning.

    Jamie.

    What would be very amusing would be if Ken Clark won the Tory
    leadership and Labour stuck to its manifesto. Then we might end up with
    a Labour party to the right of the Tories!
    
    Cheers,
    Brian

No big suprise there Jamie, city pundits had been saying for weeks that 
a new govt would lead to short term jitters by the city.

I am absolutely knackered having sat up till 3.30am to watch the demise 
in all it's glory and get up at 6.30 to witness the final acts..  I feel 
it's important to redress the despair I felt in 1992 and the tears shed 
whilst very drunk with two of my fellow students watching Neil Kinnocks 
speach.

I disagree with Laurie (no big surprise there) this is the sign that the 
British people are not as timid/dim  as I thought they were.  They can 
see that the Tory govt was not helping the "poorer" people (so what!!!) 
but neither were they doing a great deal for *them* either. I could not 
have predicted such a Labour landslide, I had faith we would win but was 
amazed and delighted in the way the country turned against tory and pro 
Labour, even the Tories who did not vote gave their consent to a labour 
Govt.  I am in awe of the support they have gained...

I know this may be difficult for some people, but this is the first time 
in 18 years I have been able to gloat politically- Portillo, Mellow, 
Shepphard, Fox etx...  THe best result of the night (well the funniest 
result) was the Martin Bell majority over Hamilton git!!!!!!!  HA HA 
HA!!

I am very very happy today, Labour have a long road ahead and a big 
mountain to climb.  They are not about to return to the ideology of late 
seventies, the govt must act in a way that can ensure this country stays 
economically sound but perhaps they can redress some of the problems 
created by Thatcherism and the Tory monopoly over the country.

I have never understood anyone but major employers being against the 
Social Chapter.... minimum wage, holiday pay, employment protection, 
employee rights, I would personally welcome that right.  Considering any 
Trade Union power has been given up by the Tories (and yes they did need 
to be controlled!!) I would welcome legislative rights to protect my 
interest in the work place (especially as I am about to be "outsourced = 
sold off) and am reliant on the European TUPEE law).   No entry into the 
single currency without a referendum, so put your money where your mouth 
is.. and vote!!

Happy girl, my mum rang me a 3 am having had 3 gin and tonics and sang 
D-ream down the phone to me.. not bad for a 63 year old!!   Give the new 
govt a chance.  I think it's a really exciting time and it means that 
Paul Daniels is going to leave Britain!!!

Andrea

    Andrea,
    
    I can remember Harold Wilson getting elected in 1964, 'after 13 years of
    tory misrule.' I was delighted, and indeed I am delighted today.
    The Open University was a big achievement, and Barbara
    Castle got some good anti-discrimination legislation on the statute
    book, but I was horrified at the way Wilson sat on his hands while
    Biafra starved during the Nigerian Civil War, to protect the interests
    of British Oil companies. They also supported the USA in Vietnam when
    opposition would have made a difference.  Then in 69 NI became the
    issue and Labour supported shoot to kill and RUC terror. 
    
    I hope your optimism does not suffer in the same way.
    
    BTW Will Labour do anything for London ? Ken Livingstone did a good job
    on the GLC, for all his opportunist warts.
    
    Re the unions, there was a problem with Stalinism in the unions, but
    the Tories are the bosses party at the end of the day, and employee
    rights are important.
    
    ..Kevin..  

    
    Re: .59
    
    Come on Laurie, the Tories had sod all policies apart from let's wait
    and see. They spent the whole campaign preaching about how bad the
    other parties were, which the Liberals didn't do and the odd Labour
    candidate may have done but it certainly didn;t appear to be offical
    policy, add that to the 'wait and see' above. They aimed their rhetoric
    at their own loyal true blue supporters akin to a budgie with a new
    mirror, I know that whilst wanting a Tory Government you want a
    different one to what was on offer so that doesn't apply to you.
    
    They deserved what they got and nothing less.
    
    And to whoever it was that said major businesses didn't want the social
    chapter, theat's not quite true. Major businesses are not as
    apprehensive about the social chapter as the small sweat shops.
    
    Chris

    You know somewhere at the back of my mind I can remember the Labour
    government making such a cock up of the economy that they had to go cap
    in hand to the International Monetary Fund to get bailed out like they
    were a banana republic. That was about the same time that you could
    spend a whole fifty quit a head on holidays abroad every year.

    I shall watch "New Labour" with interest.
    
    Jamie.

    Although I think the nation needs a new government and I hope Labour do
    a good job, I can't help but be surprised in labours attitude to
    Student Grants.
    
    Can anyone explain labours policy of getting rid of Student grants and
    forcing the poor beggars to take out full loans ?  I'm sure there's
    more to this policy but I only saw a small article in the Sun.  If
    single mums get housing benefit I can't see a reason why students
    should be penalized.
    
    I'm not a student anymore, but I believe they are an important part of
    the nations future.
    
    Chris      

1st working day, Labour puts up interest rates 1/4%, The Halifax 
follows suit by announcing mortages go up, others to follow.

    The Halifax has put rates up by .35% - .10 percentage points more than
    the rise.
    
    Hands up who voted to float.
    
    Graham

    The 1964 election of Labor eventually broke my fathers solid Labor
    heart.  Wilson promised to soak it to the rich and help the poor.  
    The voters forgot to ask him to clarify his cut on who was rich.  
    (I think owning a fountain pen put you into the "rich" bracket.) 
    
    Although, I have a greater hope that this Labor government will be
    better than Wilson's.  Blair strikes me as being a much better class
    of politician all together.  If I'm right, who knows, I may even come 
    back to the UK to retire?