Conference amcucs::ms-sqlsvr

    I don't think that the fact that the clients are VB has any bearing on
    the issue.  That said, I have a customer that  had a 2100 serving about
    1000 clients.  They recently upgraded to a 4100.  This is a 2-tier
    environment.  Works fine.
    
    tgc

     Hi Tim,
    
    Agree about the VB point..(that is what they want to use). I would
    imagine the same would be true for Deplhi/powerbuilder etc.
    
    But 100's of concurrent users hitting a single SQLserver database in 2 
    tier mode.!
    
    Does your customer have many concurrent users ???..What database are
    they using. ( we are talking a total NT solution)
    
    Thanks in advance
    
    Mick
                  
    

    
    I have a customer doing around 10,000 in a 3 tier client-server 
    environment. 
    
    From the 2nd tier to the third (where the db resides) they are making 
    connections using RPC connecting to pre-exiting threads 
    (called to a NobelNet product called EZRPC) 
    so they don't have the overhead of discrete SQL Server logins.  
    
    Mary Jo 
     

We've tested up to 1300 users banging on an Oracle database on WNT in
2-tiered client server mode (the application was PeopleSoft).  Don't see
why SQL Server would be any different.

MS

    
    Wellllllll, SQL Server's concept of locking is considerably different
    than Oracle's.  I.E., a read only user can lock out a writer...
    
    Whoever writes the client application will need to be aware of 
    SQL's locking mechanism to handle this many users.
    

	The last TPC-C test using SQLServer connected 6000 users in a 
	3-tier model using:

		Tier 1 = web browser on desktop.  
		Tier 2 = MS Internet Server.  
		Tier 3 = SQLServer.


	There was no multiplexing of connections, so SQLServer had
	1 connection for every user.

	Ruth

    
    Thanks for the update. 
    

    
    Thanks for the information..Looks lkie 3 tier is our model (Intersting
    implmentation Ruth!).
    
    Plan will be to do an OLE implmenetation with scalable option to ACMSXP
    which is a straight forward step
    
    rgs
    
    Mick

    
    Or before you get committed to three tier, you may want to investigate
    'Viper' (in beta from Microsoft).  New application tool which should 
    allow us to not have to use the three tier client-server approach 
    any more. 
    
    Mary Jo 
    

    
    'Viper' is a tp-monitor so we're back at square one again (note .0)
    :-).
    
    I would consider a 'viper' based application to e 3-tier application
    but that's another story.
    
    A more general question:
    
    How come SQL-server is caple of handling a huge number of clients.
    (In the RDB-world, each client will end up having it's own process
     on the server, ie 500 clients = 500 processes on the server :-( )
    How does the run time environment look in the SQLserver world, is each
    client given a seperate thread on the server or ... ?
    
    Curious,
    
    Stefan

    
    Yes we are looking at Viper..In fact we have been working with it since
    Beta  (its out now). Next version of Dig application generator will
    generate the code automatically.  
    
    One thing...Viper forces a 3 tier approch (sofwtare tiers)
    
    For a Viper solution..you activate a server object through MTS (viper)..so
    you have to have a com object as server object.. Server part has to be
    seperated from client.
      
    rgs
    
    mick
    
    

    
>    How come SQL-server is caple of handling a huge number of clients.
>    (In the RDB-world, each client will end up having it's own process
>     on the server, ie 500 clients = 500 processes on the server :-( )
>    How does the run time environment look in the SQLserver world, is each
>    client given a seperate thread on the server or ... ?
    
Every user gets a thread inside SQLserver.  This takes up some memory, but not
nearly as much as a process would.   You have to cede some buffer cache and OS
memory to these user threads.  There's a hit of at least 40k/user just for the
static connection that you must subtract from the SQLServer memory, but then
you have to see what the dynamic hit will be from all the connections.


You do not generally need to configure extra procedure cache. SQLServer's
stored procedures are re-entrant, so you don't need separate for each of the
users.

Ruth

 RE .1 :

 Hello,

 I've just seen the following reply in the SQL Server notes file.

 I'm trying to sell Alpha solution to a customer which doesn't believe 
 that SQLserver & NT can work properly in a large multi user C/S environment.

 Could you please tell me more about your experience :

   * Size of the database.
 
   * What type of application is it (Financial, Retail) ?

   * Are you talking about 1000 users concurrently ?

 Any information could help me and us as one company...

 best regards

  Arie Blum. 

re: .13

	I don't have all the details as this is the customer's application.  I
	did not have anything to do with the deveopment side.  That said, I
	will give some guesses.

   * Size of the database.
	10-15GB
 
   * What type of application is it (Financial, Retail) ?
	Banking - loan information/orgination/processing

   * Are you talking about 1000 users concurrently ?
	Yes, although it does come and go.  Offices are scattered across
	something like 15 states.

tgc

    
    re last.
    
    Sounds very interesting. is there anyone we could call or talk to
    to get more information about this...(ie specifically the development
    side). Such a 2 tier solution sould be of interest to alot of folk.
    ..with that amount of concurrent users.
    
    thanks in advance
    
    Mick 
    
    
    

re: anyone to talk to

	I suppose I could ask if they are willing to talk with anyone.  I would
	like a little more information about what you are after, though.  (yes,
	I am trying to protect my customer a bit.)  I wouldn't be surprised
	to expect surprise from them that 'such a 2-tier solution should be
	of interest to alot of folk'.  After all, isn't that what people have
	been writing for years on other platforms?  Why should it be 
	considered unique because it is running on NT?

	Give me a call.  dtn 442.2187  outside 612.851.2187

tgc

    
    Thanks..I will give you a call when back at office..Fully appreciate
    your concern re customer confidentiality etc etc.
    
    I'm not sure you could compare what folk have been doing for years
    in getting a large user base to work with applications...to running
    client server applications. In fact this is the core of my argument.
    If you look at VT system like decforms/acms/oracle RDB  (where most of
    the large applications we wrote/designed sit)...these were 3 tier
    by definition.  They needed the ACMS component for efficiency.
    
    Anyway will call..Thanks for the info
    
    rgs
    
    Mick