Conference 501clb::pcdoom

>    1. You can't change the gameslot that Quicksave uses without exiting
>    and restarting the game.

Yeah, this bugs me, too.  Overwrote numerous games I wanted to save before
I figured out what was going on.  

My personal pet peeve: Games that behave differently when saved and then
loaded than when played straight through.

I think it was in "Circle of Death" where I saved a game as I was standing
close to an edge.  When I restored the game, it started with me falling off
the edge.  What was worse, when I hit the bottom, I couldn't move in any
direction even though the way was clear (i.e., movement keys had no effect). 
Since I was standing in radioactive slime, all I could do was watch myself
die.  So much for that game.

Now I'm on some level (don't recall which one) which has one of those
wonderful spots where you innocently pick up a goodie and all h*ll breaks
loose.  Only I saved the game just prior to picking up the goodie.  Now
when I load the game and pick up the thing, nothing happens.  Bummer.

    I don't like the fact that Imps can claw me if I stand near an edge or
    window where they are in an area...OUT OF REACH...OUT OF SIGHT.. below.
    
    ...and on that subject I HATE IT in a level like Factory where you have
    Imps and Machine gunners shooting at you at a heights from a distance,
    yet the Doom automagic target height lock will not engage them from the
    same distance.  If they can shoot you, you should be able to shoot
    back.
    
    there I said it
    
    	Dave.

    re.all
    	Yep I'd have to agree with all of these gripes, particularly the
    imps/pinkies/spectres/etc clawing at you when you're actually 50 feet
    above them on the edge of a ledge!
    
    	One small thing, though, (re.0) 
     >>2. Some areas have a _very_ narrow window of pass/fail.
     >>   Examples:
     >>Crusher - getting onto the elevator after tripping the switch
     >>             (impossible)
    
    I think this is intentional. Doom 2 has considered multiplayer games a
    lot more than Doom 1. With clever use of attributes, levels can be a
    totally different ball game when playing co-op. And besides, there's
    not much to talk about in that section of The Crusher anyway ;-)
    
    Dan

    
    Looks like I am not alone.
    
    Last night trying to exit Tracks and Traps (as if it wasn't bad enough
    already) is a series of pillars you must run along, turn right and get
    to the exit before you get lowered into the slime. This goes onto the
    list of TYPE 2 gripes...
    
    Oh yea and the ChainGunners on the lower level of the Gantlet - they
    can shoot me but I can't shoot them...
    
    RE: last - I suppose that could be true - I've never played multiplayer
    (co-op or deathmatch) so I can't really comment.
    
    Jason...
    

    RE: narrow failures
    
    Yes, that section of Tricks and Traps convinced me that frequent saving
    is really required in DooM II.   In Doom 1, there was usually a way to
    recover from something if you screwed up the first time.  Doom II is
    not always that nice.
    
    ...speaking of narrow windows... wait until you see some of the 2x
    levels.  Talk about narrow...;-)
    
    	Dave.

    
    Without using F6Y and F9Y 'bout a million times I never would have made
    it through the level at all.
    
    There are certainly lots of 'you die here' traps to fall into in
    DOOM][, plus the slime(s) are different colours too.
    
    Jason...

- I wish you could look up and down a little bit.

- Targetting is a little different in DOOM ][  It's harder
 yea, it seems as though you can't pick off some targets, but sometimes
 the chain-gun can spray em..  (Rocket's seem to be the tuffest..)

- Save Game corruptions seem to happen more in DOOM ][

- It's almost TOO dark most of the time...

But it's still my fav. pass time..

	RE: last few on targeting enemies who are up (or down)
	3 or 4 levels.

	I was playing firing the rocket launcher at some imps and a chain
	gunner that were up high. What I noticed is that the gun you are
	has to be lined up vertically with your intended target for the
	DOOM auto targeting to know you want to shoot up.

	Problem is to actually see up four stories to aim at the bad guys
	you have to be standing quite a long way away from them. The further
	away you are the harder it is to line them up.

	Last night I found that on some shots, one rocket would go shooting
	off level with the ground and by moving the mouse so the screen
	shifted 1 or 2 pixels (hardly moving the mouse at all) the next
	rocket would land right in amongst the bad guys.


Sion

    
    
    Another example of .-1
    
    If you are standing on the floor of the "Crusher" room. The Imps can
    shoot down on you but it nearly impossible to hit them. If you can get
    close enough to sight them then you can't shoot them (autolock won't),
    if you further back you can't hit them beacuse you can't sight them
    accurately enough.
    
    Another thing I've noticed. It seems that not all baddies of the same
    type are the same in the way they move and fire at you. For example: In
    the Crusher's "Escher Room" (with the spiral staircase) there is a
    platform with three Imps on it. Two of them just sort of shuffle around
    (and walk away from you) and are easy to kill off, the third has a
    different walking pattern. It seems to walk faster and change direction
    (left to right, but not away) more often and is therefore harder to
    hit. It always seems to be the same one (of the three) that does this.
    
    Not exactly a gripe, but I'm in that kind of mood.
    
    Jason$whose_FORD_just_broke-down_AGAIN_and_left_him_stranded_downtown.
    

    re.Aiming at different height floors
    
    This can be a major problem, but moreso if you can't use a full screen.
    
    I generally use the full screen with stats bar along the bottom, and
    then for these tricky targetting moments just pump the window up to
    full screen. Sometimes it's just that little extra you need to stuff a
    rocket up a collection of imp butt's.... :-)

    
    Sometimes you can get around this by using and "area" weapon (Plasma
    Gun or BFG9000). These weapons have a larger 'blast area' and can be
    more effective in these cases.
    
    Its too bad we/I/us (whatever) don't have something like a grenade
    launcher/fire ball thrower etc. that covers a larger area and doesn't
    require pinpoint accuracy.
    
    Even with full-screen on some baddies can be a [sounds like] witch to
    hit.
    
    Jason...
    

    I find that autoaim works best if you let the imps etc fire first...it
    seems to get a height reading off that.
    
    

Re .1

> Now I'm on some level (don't recall which one) which has one of those
> wonderful spots where you innocently pick up a goodie and all h*ll breaks
> loose.  Only I saved the game just prior to picking up the goodie.  Now
> when I load the game and pick up the thing, nothing happens.  Bummer.

This happened to me as well in the spiral staircase room on level 15. The
problem is that after you load a saved game the creatures dont know you're there
until you make a noise. If you fire one shot or give a buzz on the chainsaw
before you pick up the trigger, you should be dead within seconds.

Phil.

> Last night trying to exit Tracks and Traps (as if it wasn't bad enough
> already) is a series of pillars you must run along, turn right and get to the
                                      ^^^^
> exit before you get lowered into the slime. This goes onto the list of TYPE 2
> gripes...
  
Well... your 'must' is a little strong!  :-)



Might I suggest you can alleviate your 'must' by looking for the little red
shower stall in the room with the bunk beds...


- jeff_with_more_to_a_pun_than_meets_the_eye_:-)

    
    Sorry negative comprendeze vou...
    
    What is the bunk bed room?
    
    Jason$not_getting_it_today
    

    I imagine he means the lovely quiet dormitory where a lot of tomatoes
    were sleeping until you rudely interrupted them.
    
    And I find it a lot easier to get over those end-of-level platform by
    NOT running. Just do cursor up & cursor right, and open the door and
    get in as soon as possible (with a DB shotgun at the ready!).
    
    Dan

    
    Is this the room that is 'empty' until you pick up the object (red key
    ?) ?
    
    Json...

    I don't think so, I dunno for definite. I seem to remember a 'red
    shower cubicle' appearing in the 'room full of sleeping
    giant-red-fireball-spitting-overgrown-raspeberries' ...
    
    There, is that a big enough hint for you ?!?!? :-)
    
    P.S. Shouldn't this be in the "Tricks'n'Traps" topic now ?!?!?

    
    This [tangled] thread moved to Tricks and Traps...
    
    Jason...
    

    Back to gripes
    
    How come you can't defend yourself with things? - Like the chansaw, I
    want to be able to wave it about and parry imps please
    
    I want to take weapons from the dead in -deathmatch
    
    I want to swap weapons and ammo in co-op
    
    I want to decide when I use special equiment like radiation suites,
    that should be simple enough.
    
    I want to be able to crouch or lie down (fit through those itty bitty
    gaps.)
    
    +previous, how about mines, satchel charges etc. left as booby traps, a
    real deathmatch moment.  Even link te DBSG to a door switch, oh what
    fun.
    
    I want the thing to run properly on my sad little 386!!!
    
    I want quake
    
    I want to get a life.
    
    R. Michael.

    Since Quake is going to need a decent machine to run on (suggested a 66
    minimum) I think Id should develop the Doom engine for all these
    extras.
    
    How about some heat sensitive goggles which can see through walls/etc
    so you can tell if that baddy is just around the corner. You lose all
    colour, but really hot things glow ... things like Lost Souls would be
    white hot, and the lava in certain levels would render the goggles
    virtually useless, and Arachnotrons wouldn't show up on them at all,
    etc etc...
    
    Coo-el!
    
    Dan
    
    B-[	<--- Me modelling this latest Doom add-on.

    Gee, the best game out for years, and you guys want more!!!
    
    ;^)

    
    RE: LAST  Yes now yer gettin' it. 8^)
    
    I like the goggles idea - imagine a 'view' like the invulnerability but
    with a colour thermograph indicating baddies.
    
    While we're at it. How come bullets don't ricochet? And why can't you
    blast through walls/bars etc. between you and them?
    
    Yeah and another one. I don't like to use the combat shotgun too often
    (due to slow reload). Whenever I want the shotgun I have to hit 3
    twice - which is too slow when caught by surprise. I'd like to be able
    to set my shotgun preference. 
    
    Jason...

    Somebody in an internet newgroup suggested a jetpack of some sort.
    That'd be quite clever.
    
    Hey, let's make it so you can call up air support and have an entire
    area bombed!!!!
    
    Okay I'm getting silly now... sorry.
    
    I just don't like the sound of Quake - all axes and swords and stuff.
    Hand combat is for pansy games, I WANT PLASMA GUNS IN QUAKE!!!

    
    Anyone remeber the old days of the VMS doom? (A maze type adventure
    game played on a character cell terminal?) If so, this may ring a bell!
    
    The developer used to read the notes conference, make notes of all the
    abilities/objects we wanted added, then add them for the players, and
    the baddies!
    
    ...imagine, you've stopped to collect your thoughts, when suddenly an
    baddie sees you through the wall, and shoots. The wall collapses, and
    you die, shot to pieces and crushed in the debris...
    
    I think DOOM is fine just the way it is!
    
    Steve.        

    VMS doom ?!?! You're having me on........
    
    <:-|

    re .-1
    
    No I'm not kidding, it's just nothing like you think it is!
    
    It's a character cell based maze game, with the whole of the layout on
    a 80x24 character cell screen.
    
    It was oriogionally called DOOM when it was only available inside
    Digital, but it has since become a proper game, under the name
    Operation Thunderbolt (?) when the author left Digital.
    
    Sorry for getting your hopes up!
    
    Steve.
    
    PS See the notes conf. 501CLB::DOOM for more info about this game. It
    used to be huge when it was first out, but has since died down.
    

    I remember VMS Doom well. Damned good game. Going back a few years
    mind... (like about 8)
    
    Laurie.

  >  How come you can't defend yourself with things? - Like the chansaw, I
  >  want to be able to wave it about and parry imps please
    
    You can use the Chainsaw on Imps.  Works quite well.
    
 >   I want to decide when I use special equiment like radiation suites,
 >   that should be simple enough.
    
    It is.  Just pick up the suit when you need it!  Simple!
    Oh, you meant you want to be able to pick up the suit "now" and use it
    at some later time?   Wouldn't that take some of the strategy out of
    the game?
    
    Ken
    
    
    

     >>Crusher - getting onto the elevator after tripping the switch
     >>             (impossible)

    I did it no probs! Is this still considered impossible?


    Hint: 


    Run straight towards it - don't go along the wall.

    Pet peeve: pick up a Bezerk health kit, and your weapon changes to
    hand thrusts.  And what good is the Bezerk mode anyhow?
    
    Doom2 would hang after loading several of the saved games made
    during level 30.  Never had a problem saving/reloading up until
    level 30.  That made this stupid level even harder.  ;-) Kratz
    

  re .31:

>And what good is the Bezerk mode anyhow?

    It lasts the whole level, not just the time on the pinked screen. Once
  you have Bezerk (sp?), it's THE most effective weapon (short of a BFG)
  against anything that doesn't shoot at you, and pretty damn devestating
  even against things that do. You can take out a Demon (pink gorillas) or
  Spectre with a single punch. It's possible to clear a whole room full of
  them without firing a shot or taking any damage. Just position yourself
  so they can only attack one at a time and keep hitting.

						John Gillings, Sydney CSC

    
    >And what good is the Bezerk mode anyhow?
    
    It lasts the whole level,
    
    
    
    Does it ???,    So me running around like a madman trying to find
    something to punch  before the screen fades out is errrmmm..  not 
    necessary ??.
    
    Well ya learn something new everyday. 
         
    thanks John Gillings Sidnee see s see

    >>It lasts the whole level,
    
    Yup, this is true... even after the red-ish hue fades out, you're still
    psyched up and ready to hurl some guts (not your own, of course).
    
    Berzerk is *great* (and a bonus you'll be glad you have) when you're
    low on ammo (or completely out!). Former humans will explode with a
    single punch every time. Imps can be done with 1, definately 2 hits.
    Spectres/demons take 1 or 2 also.
    
    The berzerker pack and the chainsaw are the 2 most underestimated and
    yet darn handy weapons in the whole of Doom. And the BFG is the most
    overrated piece of crap known to man. So there :-]
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    
    I'd be a full-fledged chainsaw Zorro if it _didn't_ explode the barrels
    when you hit then - I usually take myself out more often than not.
    
    Jason...

Re: Berzerk

Plus, don't forget that it restores you to 100% health, no matter how 
beat up you might be.  Sometimes it works well to wait until you need
more than a medkit to pick up the Berzerk pack...