Conference tecrus::mormonism

    Thanks for starting this discussion, Kevin!
    
    We make a point in our family to strictly avoid going to the store on
    Sunday. The only exception to this is if we need to travel, and need to
    buy necessities for the journey. Even with this, we try to gas up on
    Saturday and get whatever other things we may need ahead of time.
    
    We don't go to shows or other commercial entertainment on Sunday.
    One thing I have been struggling with a bit in our family is TV.
    I used to have a good friend in the church, who has since moved
    away, that did not permit his family to watch television on Sunday.
    I used to think that was a bit extreme. Now I have begun to think
    that maybe it's not such a bad idea. 
    
    We have had a few Sundays where we have said, 'Today there will be no
    TV. If there is something you want to see, then record it and watch it
    later.' Sure the kids grumbled, but then we used that time to read
    together from the scriptures and I spent that time meeting one-on-one
    with each of my children in a personal 'interview'. Afterwards my wife
    and I agreed that it had been nice. We haven't implemented this
    practice each Sunday, but I would like to move in that direction. 
    
    We also avoid yard work on Sundays. Sundays are a popular day for
    mowing the lawn and weeding the garden, but we try to avoid these
    'labors', and to occupy the day in some other way. We do enjoy a nap
    often on Sunday, resting from our 'labors'. We often do church related
    service, such as hometeaching, or fulfilling the duties of our other
    callings. 
    
    Keeping the Sabbath day holy is a challenge, and we don't always do it
    as well as we should, but I believe it is like a lot other commandments
    - it is a principle with a promise. I don't have my scriptures with me
    right now, but I believe the Bible has several places where the people
    are promised greater prosperity and blessings if they will keep the
    sabbath day holy. 
    
    Your brother in Christ,
    Rich
                     

    I am not a Mormon, as will become shortly apparent...just an ordinary
    person with a vaguely academic interest in comparative religion.
    
    I have several questions.
    
    Since Sabbath is the Hebrew word for seventh, the Sabbath Day is
    Saturday, not Sunday.  Is there a Mormon-specific calendar on which
    Monday is the first day of the week?
    
    Do professional athletes such as Danny Ainge, Bruce Hurst and many
    others have some sort of special dispensation from the church
    hierarchy, since their work obviously requires frequent s
    Sunday activity?
    
    If you work MTWThF and cannot shop or do any kind of home maintenance
    on Sunday, your Saturdays must be very busy indeed.  I guess you
    can't go hunting or fishing on Sunday either, or play golf and tennis.
    
    Please do not feel that I'm being sarcastic or critical.  I just
    would like to know if the requirements of the Mormon faith are
    really as severe as they seem.   I must say that I have known a
    number of devout Mormons in my lifetime, and they have almost
    invariably been fine human beings.

  I try to do things that I feel are appropriate.  Much that has been
  mentioned is similar to what I believe.  In the past, I know that our
  family has done 'family sports' on Sunday, but not 'neighborhood' sports,
  etc.  For example, we had a picnic once and we tossed a frisbee afterwards
  in a quiet, non-competitive way.  Or perhaps croquet together. Etc.
  I am not condoning the previous thoughts, nor am I condemning them.  I don't
  know exactly what I feel about such things (throwing a frisbee as a family,
  etc.)  I do feel however that such activities as neighborhood football games,
  etc. are not compatible.

  I guess I would say that activities that give praise to God and bring his
  work forward and that are within the principles of the Gospel are OK.  Does
  that mean no TV?  In my mind it doesn't mean that.  If there is a good
  family show on, that might be OK in my mind.  Of course, most TV today
  is not OK on any day...


	CHad

    Re: Note 147.2 by CLT::GEYER 

    Welcome to the conference!
    
>   Since Sabbath is the Hebrew word for seventh, the Sabbath Day is
>   Saturday, not Sunday.  Is there a Mormon-specific calendar on which
>   Monday is the first day of the week?
    
    There's no Mormon-specific calendar. My understanding of the Sunday
    observance is that it is in remembrance of the resurrection of the Lord
    on the first day of the week. Also, if I'm not mistaken, there is also
    a Biblical usage of other Sabbath days besides the 'seventh' day,
    giving the term an additional meaning of 'holy day' as opposed to just
    'seventh day'. 
    
    I have heard of Mormons living in some countries where Saturday is
    legally designated as the Sabbath day, and they observe it on that day.
    I suppose it is more important that one sanctifies one day in seven for
    the Lord than exactly which day it might be. However, it is the normal
    practice of the LDS church to observe it on Sunday. 
    
>   Do professional athletes such as Danny Ainge, Bruce Hurst and many
>   others have some sort of special dispensation from the church
>   hierarchy, since their work obviously requires frequent s
>   Sunday activity?
    
    There are many members of the church who have employment that requires
    them to work on Sunday. This is a matter of personal choice and
    necessity. They are free to make these choices for themselves. The
    church encourages us to keep the Sabbath day holy to the best of our
    abilities and circumstances to do so. I do know that many of the LDS
    athletes make a point of doing everything they can outside of their
    actual involvement in a Sunday game to observe the Sabbath. Since they
    cannot choose the days the games are played, their chosen work requires
    them to work on those days. 
    
>   If you work MTWThF and cannot shop or do any kind of home maintenance
>   on Sunday, your Saturdays must be very busy indeed.  I guess you
>   can't go hunting or fishing on Sunday either, or play golf and tennis.
    
    Yes Saturdays are busy. Some Mormons do hunt and fish on Sunday, again
    it is a matter of personal choice. The church discourages such things,
    but leaves it up to the individual to decide and reconcile their own
    choices with the Lord. 
    
>   Please do not feel that I'm being sarcastic or critical.  I just
>   would like to know if the requirements of the Mormon faith are
>   really as severe as they seem.   I must say that I have known a
>   number of devout Mormons in my lifetime, and they have almost
>   invariably been fine human beings.
    
    No offense taken by me, at least. The Mormon faith requires a great
    deal from its adherents. Are these requirements *severe*? Probably they
    seem so to an outsider. We consider them opportunities for blessings.
    I, for one, honestly believe that I have been blessed by God for
    keeping his commandments, including keeping the Sabbath day holy. Those
    who don't simply miss out on some of the available blessings that God
    otherwise would give to them. 
    
    We believe that all of God's laws have attendant blessings for keeping
    them and consequences for not keeping them. We are free to choose, and
    the result will be dependant upon the choices we make.
    
    Hope this helps. 
    
    Your brother in Christ,
    Rich            

    In our home we try to keep the sabbath day holy by not going to
    stores and things like that.  We do try to do things that are family
    oriented and strengthen our family relationships.  We usually go
    over to my in-laws for sunday dinner after church and relax after
    that and visit.  We have one daughter who is 19 months old and is
    the only grandchild on this side of the family.  She usually entertains
    all of us on Sunday afternoon after we eat.
    
    I have talked with members of the church who have lived in other
    countries where the Sabbath day was observed on Thursday.  They
    were in Saudi Arabia for two years.  They explained that they felt
    like it was not necessarily what specific day it was, but that one
    day of the week was set aside to worship the Lord.  I guess, the
    members of the church sort of adapted to observe some of the customs
    that were prevalent in the country they lived in.
    
    As was mentioned earlier, we are free to choose, or in other words,
    we have our free agency to make our own decisions.  The church does
    counsel us to keep the sabbath day holy, but, as in most things,
    they leave the choice of how to do it up to us.
    
    To me, it is real important that I take a day off from my secular
    pursuits and concentrate on my church assignments.
    
    scott

    Keeping the Sabbath Day holy is almost unique to the individual.
     While we do have general guidelines on what keeing it holy means,
    i.e. worshipping at Church and other "spiritual activities" such
    as scripture reading, Family Home evenings, visiting the sick, etc.,
    each person defines his or her own Sabbath practices.
    
    In my family rather than trying to fill the Sabbath (Sunday) with
    a lot of "we can't do that" messages, we have tried it give
    positive messages that the Sabbath is a special day made just for
    us.  Jesus said that "The Sabbath was made for man
    and not man for the Sabbath" (paraphased).  To me this statement
    implies that the Sabbath is a gift from God for mankind.  So in
    my family we see the Sabbath as a gift and try to cherish it in
    that light.
    
    The outcome is my family sees the Sabbath as a day filled with things
    we can do that are different from the rest of the week which is
    filled with things we have to do.
    
    Some examples:
    
    We play as a family, including walks in the country, visit quite
    and peaceful spots like favorite parks, garden spots, nature walks.
    We play board games, or yard games as a family.  We visit friends,
    relatives, or sick persons.  We invite new families or single persons
    for Sunday dinner.  We watch special video movies that are uplifting.
    We also do only necessary work on that day, i.e. cooking, cleaning
    up, etc.  WE go bike riding.  We take naps, catch up on our reading
    or letter writing or journals.
    
    The bottom line for me and my family is approaching the Sabbath
    positively rather than building a list of "thou shalt not do because
    it is Sunday" activities.  I love the Sabbath because it is the
    one day of the week when lawn movers, paint brushes, hammers, etc.
    lay quiet, while the hammock, couch, scriptures, and my wife and
    children get extra attention. I also love it because I feel spiritually
    refreshed and renewed for another week of challenges which comes
    from our Church services.
    
    Paul
                            

RE: < Note 147.2 by CLT::GEYER >


First off, welcome to the conference! Ask anything you want, and don't 
worry how it's phrased. Any honest inquiry is certainly welcomed.

>    Since Sabbath is the Hebrew word for seventh, the Sabbath Day is
>    Saturday, not Sunday.  

I have some material that explains how Christianity in general came to 
accept Sunday - also known as The Lord's Day - as the proper day of 
worship each week. If you want, I'll enter it for you.

>    Do professional athletes such as Danny Ainge, Bruce Hurst and many
>    others have some sort of special dispensation from the church
>    hierarchy, since their work obviously requires frequent
>    Sunday activity?
    
The church hierarchy does not give out 'dispensations.' It is the
Lord, not the hierarchy, who passes judgment on such things. As such, 
if one has a conflict between work and Sunday observance, then one is 
expected to go to the Lord in prayer and ask how the conflict can be 
resolved.

Trevor Matich (NE Patriots center) observed once that we are also 
commanded by the Lord to provide for our families. Sometimes this
requires us to work on Sundays in order for us to meet this
commitment. Some members make it clear to their superiors that they
will not work on Sunday. Some members do not have this freedom. Sunday
observance is not totally absolute, otherwise no Mormon could ever
become, for example, a doctor or nurse, since all doctors and nurses
must, at some point in their careers, work on Sunday. 

As for the specific cases you mentioned, Danny Ainge has said that
when he has a game on Sunday, and cannot be with his family, they
choose another day of that week and spend it together and observe it
much like they would a Sunday. Bruce must be at the ballpark by either
10:30 or 11:00 for Sunday homegames, so he goes to Sacrament meeting
(at 9:00) and then dashes into Boston. He also attends the nearest
Sunday service while on road trips. Both Bruce and Danny sacrifice 
portions of whatever free time they may have and give it to the Lord 
and to their families. In these and many other ways, both Bruce and
Danny are strongly exemplary of the principle of keeping God and
family ahead of fame, fortune, and worldly pursuits. 

>    If you work MTWThF and cannot shop or do any kind of home maintenance
>    on Sunday, your Saturdays must be very busy indeed.  

You can say that again. It should be pointed out, though, that we have 
been counseled that if we knock ourselves out on Saturday in order to
be more observant of Sunday, then we are kind of defeating the
purpose. 

>    I just
>    would like to know if the requirements of the Mormon faith are
>    really as severe as they seem.

Well, it may seem severe, but understand that Mormons do these things
on an entirely voluntary basis. It is a sacrifice, but as is the case
with so much in this Church, sacrifice is defined as giving up
something good for something better. We have found that observing the
Sabbath as the Lord has commanded brings blessings, and I for one look
forward to Sunday much more eagerly than any other day of the week.
Even Friday. ;-) 

Brother Kevin

>I have some material that explains how Christianity in general came to 
>accept Sunday - also known as The Lord's Day - as the PROPER DAY OF
>WORSHIP EACH WEEK. If you want, I'll enter it for you.  
    
   I would agree that Sunday is the proper day to come to the storehouse
    of the LORD.  For on this first day the disciples came together
    to break bread.  The Bible also says that the first day is the day
    to bring the tithes and offerings.  I believe that God makes
    a distinction between 'a sabboth day' and ' THE SABBOTH'.  And like
    a previous note stated -- THE SABBOTH is the seventh day.   If we
    are to be like God who rested on the seventh day -- how can we assume
    that it is okay to rest on the first day.

    
    
    	I seem to remember hearing that the PASSOVER was also considered
    as The Sabbath.
    
    Tom

    
    Having been involved in this type of discussion over the years in
    other conferences I've become somewhat of a reluctant 'authority'
    ;). As such......
    
    First, sabbath or 'shabbath' in Hebrew does _not_ mean seventh,
    but rather 'rest' or 'intermission'. The reason for it being
    traditionally observed on the seventh day, or what we now call
    Saturday, was simply because of the scriptures in Genesis 2:2,3:
    
         "And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made;
          and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He
          had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified
          it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which
          God created and made."
    
    Then, later in the giving of the Law at Mt. Sinai, this passage
    is quoted in the fourth Commandment as a requirement for all to
    observe the same rest on the seventh day. This was part of the
    Covenant of Law between the nation of Israel and God.
    
    Without going into a lot of detail, my position is that the Ten
    Commandments, of which the sabbath is a part, is not binding on
    the followers of Christ as the Ten Commandment law ends when one
    enters into a relationship with Christ.
    
    Those who have read me before have perhaps seen my position and
    supporting scriptures so I'll leave it at that unless there's 
    something in particular you'd like to discuss.
    
    Regards,
    Charlie

    RE:  -1
    
    One statement here is confusing to me.  
    
    If one claims exemption from the ten commandments because one is
    Christian, and uses this to explain why one need not observe the
    Sabbath, does this mean that one need not observe the other
    commandments?  
    
    If so, then where does one obtain the religious injunction against
    murder, adultry, and the other prohibited actions?  And where does one
    obtain the religious injunction to love G-d and to respect ones
    parents?
    
    Clearly these moral values are part of Christianity and of the LDS. 
    But where does one derive them, in that case?  
    
    I know it has been a few years, and the note's author may no longer be
    noting in this file.  But if other LDS followers also hold this belief,
    I would like to know more about it.
    
    Thanks,
    L

	RE: <<< Note 147.13 by TNPUBS::STEINHART "Laura" >>>

>    One statement here is confusing to me.  
>    
>    If one claims exemption from the ten commandments because one is
>    Christian, and uses this to explain why one need not observe the
>    Sabbath, does this mean that one need not observe the other
>    commandments?  
    
	This is *definitely* not an LDS stance.  Only the Law of Moses was
	fulfilled through Christ, not the commandments God.  Christ himself
	stated that all the law and prophets stood on two commandments:
	love God and love his children (paraphrased of course).  Each of
	the ten commandments can be placed in one of these two areas.  God's
	word does not change.  The Law of Moses was given to point toward
	the redemption that Christ provided.  Once it was provided (fulfilled)
	then there was no longer a need for it.


>    Clearly these moral values are part of Christianity and of the LDS. 
>    But where does one derive them, in that case?  
    
	I don't see where a Christian (one who follows Christ) can say that
	the ten commandments were fulfilled because I believe Christ said
	the same things in other words and ways during his ministry and
	through his apostles.  Christ expanded the thoughts in the ten
	commandments by adding things like don't condemn others unless you
	are without sin, etc..

	Charles

I just thought I would mention something that isn't obvious to one who might
be reading this note about the Sabbath.  The statement in 147.12 that Laura
referred to was made by a non-LDS, Charlie Johnson, and as Charles Roney
pointed out, the LDS position is that the Ten Commandments are still in effect.

Allen

Hi Laura,

>    If one claims exemption from the ten commandments because one is
>    Christian, and uses this to explain why one need not observe the
>    Sabbath, does this mean that one need not observe the other
>    commandments?  
>    
>    If so, then where does one obtain the religious injunction against
>    murder, adultry, and the other prohibited actions?  And where does one
>    obtain the religious injunction to love G-d and to respect ones
>    parents?
>    
>    Clearly these moral values are part of Christianity and of the LDS. 
>    But where does one derive them, in that case?  

One of the advantages we have as LDS is that we have other sources of the
Word of God besides the Bible.  As you are aware, we believe the Book of
Mormon to be the Word of God, and we believe that we have modern prophets who
also give us the Word of God.  Thus, the moral and ethical values espoused
by Mormons come from all those sources.  If the Bible were to disappear for
some reason, Mormonism wouldn't change, and our acceptance of Jesus Christ
as our Savior and Redeemer wouldn't change.

I don't wish to divert attention away from the discussion of the Sabbath day,
but I thought I would give a short response to your questions.  Persons wishing
to discuss this in more depth are invited to do so in note 285 or perhaps open
a new note to discuss the need (or lack of it) for scriptures in addition to
the Bible.

Allen

    During my conversion to the gospel of Jesus Christ, I too was
    profoundly interested in the question of the 6th commandment, and the
    issue of the Seventh Day. You see I had been raised in a very devout
    Seventh Day Adventist home.
    
    Through careful research with the missionaries, my friendshippers, and
    alone in careful scrpture study and prayer, I concluded that God
    revealed the meanings of the following scriptures to me.
    
    I Cor 16:1-2
    Acts 20:7
    Rom 14:1-5
    Col 2:14-17
    Rev 1:10
    
    Through prayer and an honest and true desire to know the truth of what
    I had been taught in my youth, and by the missionaries, I received
    confirmation that the doctrine we observe today is the truth. 
    
    
    Laura I hope that answers your question
    
    Mike