Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

The VMS bindings to the DECwindows routines should be callable from COBOL now,
but you might have to write your own routine and data structure declarations.

--PSW

This was meant to be with 556 but I fumble-fingered, hence the 
reference to selling DECwindows to insurance companies.

>The VMS bindings to the DECwindows routines should be callable from
>COBOL now, but you might have to write your own routine and data
>structure declarations. 

Cobol doesn't need routine declarations, but the language does not 
have a "structure" type syntax, so I think the data declarations would 
be prohibitively messey.  Also, there are no "include" files currently 
distributed though .lib files could be built for the constants.  Also
Cobol can get them from global symbols, but that sounds like a mess to 
code, too.  The reason I asked is that Cobol doesn't play DECwindows 
very well and trying to sell it to insurance companies may be 
hazardous to your health!

Also, are there any plans to make it play better?

Bruce

> The reason I asked is that Cobol doesn't play DECwindows 
> very well and trying to sell it to insurance companies may be 
> hazardous to your health!

IMHO, COBOL doesn't do ANY User Interface Servicing very well...
But then, it wasn't *designed* to do UIS, it was *designed* to do file-oriented
data transfer. It does that just *fine*, thank you. Quit asking a fish to pedal
your bicycle (*THAT'S* why C*CS is such a boat anchor...)!! 8-{)

> Also, are there any plans to make it play better?

It's called ACMS/DECForms, *where* have *you* been?  8-{)  8-{)

Chuckles,

Brian

I like the ACMS/DECforms suggestion.  My own experience with customers tells
me that perhaps your customer is not yet finished with his 'mindset adjustment'.
You may have a long-term education process on your hands, here.  If they
(the customer) *really* wants to update his DP development, they should consider
going to windows - in the context of stepping back and looking afresh at their
development strategies.  Perhaps the DECW versions of our CASE tools, along
with ACMS, etc would let him revamp his outlook on development.

In other words, it may be a harder, longer sell, but if you can convince
your customer to think globally instead of attacking a point problem, you
may end up with a DEC/CASE/DECwindows showcase site.

RE: .2

You ought to contact DECwindows Product Management directly to voice this
concern (lack of INCLUDE files for COBOL).  It is a valid one.  In the meantime,
though, the problem can be worked around by rolling one's own set of
definitions.  All of the data structures and constants for the VMS interface are
documented.

--PSW

    The decision not to provide COBOL support files for DECwindows was
    made for technical not business reasons as I recall. All the
    language-specific programming definition files are produced from a
    master SDL file using various language backend processors. There 
    isn't a COBOL backend (at least we didn't know of one). 
    
    There's also the little problem that no one here knows COBOL. 

Thanks for all the comments.  I'll let it lie for now because I doubt
I could justify it to PM since I'm not on the sales end and support
doesn't feel the pressure for big new things as early.  I can see a
lot of technical difficulties, foremost of which is Cobol's lack of an
easily reusable structure construct.  It can be done, but gets even
more verbose! 

Mis shops run behind the times, anyway, so the customers probably
won't scream for a while.  It is just a little sad to cut the largest
commercial language out of the action just when DEC is beginning to
catch on in that market.  True, we have a lot of other interesting 
offerings, but there's always someone that wants to do the latest with 
what they've got.

Craig CLT::NETH told me he'd done helloworld in Cobol if anyone'd like 
to see what it looks like.

Bruce

re: .-1

> Craig CLT::NETH told me he'd done helloworld in Cobol if anyone'd like 
> to see what it looks like.

Craig has placed this example into ELKTRA::DW_EXAMPLES, note 131.0.