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Conference bulova::decw_jan-89_to_nov-90

Title:DECWINDOWS 26-JAN-89 to 29-NOV-90
Notice:See 1639.0 for VMS V5.3 kit; 2043.0 for 5.4 IFT kit
Moderator:STAR::VATNE
Created:Mon Oct 30 1989
Last Modified:Mon Dec 31 1990
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3726
Total number of notes:19516

1510.0. "Application Split between Client/Server" by BREAKR::UDICK (See ya in the NOTES files) Mon Oct 02 1989 02:58

    One of my customers indicated that he felt that DEC was just trying to
    turn his 7000 dollar PC into a fancy terminal when running DECwindows. 
    
    What part of the application runs on the Server vs the Client. Someone
    said that it was also 50/50. What is your feeling. How do I show him
    the split.
    
    Thanks
    
    Steve

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1510.1CASEE::LACROIXObject oriented dog food? No, sorryMon Oct 02 1989 06:357
>    One of my customers indicated that he felt that DEC was just trying to
>    turn his 7000 dollar PC into a fancy terminal when running DECwindows. 

    The bad news is that your customer is probably right.

    Denis.

1510.2SITBUL::KLEINSORGESo sue me.Mon Oct 02 1989 14:1718
    
    It's true and false.  Because of the increased resource demands, DEC
    has been pushing exactly this as a "solution" for those 6mb VS2000
    owners (and there are thousands of them).  When seen from the viewpoint
    of the guy who already has the VAXstation 2000 -- he's not too far off
    the mark.
    
    Now on the otherhand, the vision is that the application can now run
    where most appropriate... this might be the workstation itself, a Cray,
    a VAX 6120, or a Unix hot-box.  Viewed this way, it simply expands the
    possibilities of one aspect of high-speed local area networks.  It does
    *not* solve the problem of distributed computing -- it's more akin to an
    interactive terminal than to a distributed application environment.  It
    does provide the lowest-common-denominator solution of providing input
    and output across hardware and software boundries.
    
    

1510.3Just the facts Mam'SURFLA::UDICKPSee ya in the NOTES filesTue Oct 03 1989 01:5016
    What I am looking for is some demonstratable facts. 
    
    Is there anyway to run DECwrite on a single workstation and see the
    split between the Display process and the Client Application process.
    
    Should the performance be .25 percent faster running it on two
    machines.
    
    Has any testing been done. Pointer to the refs please.
    
    How do I set up my own benchmark.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Steve

1510.4In general, avoid generalizations...VMSDEV::BUFORDLet sleeping children lieTue Oct 03 1989 13:3964
    > Is there anyway to run DECwrite on a single workstation and see the
    > split between the Display process and the Client Application process.
    
    What is the purpose of determining this "split"?  Why would a 50/50
    split be better or worse that a 90/10 split or a 10/90 split?  (If I
    had my druthers, I would like to see the application apply the biggest
    portion of the load since I can choose whether I run the application
    locally or remotely.  With the server, I don't have that option...)
    
    A simple answer is probably an incorrect one because there are lots of
    caveats and gotchas.  For example, have you considered the "split" with
    the window manager process?  Have you considered the amount of
    processing that other clients may be doing as you occlude and expose
    their windows while using the client you think you are testing?
    
    Also, have you considered which system resources to study?  The obvious
    one is CPU time, but there is also memory utilization, I/O (both
    buffered and direct), page faults (hard and soft), and so on.
    
    Even if CPU time was the "right" resource to study, are all CPU cycles
    created equal?  For example, if you study CPU usage using the MONITOR
    utility, you may find that your average CPU usage is around 20% but
    there are brief periods in which CPU usage shoots up to 100%.  During
    these critical periods, which process is using how much CPU?  Which one
    has the highest priority?
    
    But if you are still determined, read up on using MONITOR PROCESS to
    record data to a file, then analyze *all* data on *all* of the processes.
    
    > Should the performance be .25 percent faster running it on two
    > machines.
    
    Be very *very* careful here.  What are the two machines?  Are they the
    same or different?  Which one is running the server and which one is
    running the client?  What else are they doing?
    
    For example, suppose you had a VS2000 w/ 6 megs of memory and a VS3100
    w/ 16 megs.  If your server is on the VS3100 and it is not doing
    anything else, why would you want to run DECwrite on the VS2000 which
    has a CPU that is ~3 times slower?  
    
    But if you have a VS2000 with 6 megs of memory that is maxed out in
    terms of memory and CPU usage, and you have a 6210 that is just sitting
    there idle, DECWindows gives you the option of running some or all of
    your applications remotely.  Yes, in that case you will probably see an
    improvement in performance since the idle 6210 has a faster CPU and
    more memory than the VS2000.  But one rarely has a idle 6210 laying
    around and your milage  may vary.  Try it and see.  
    
    *In general,* you want to balance resources against needs.  You can
    study your system resource availability and process resource needs
    using MONITOR, SPM, VPA, etc. and so on.  
    
    > Has any testing been done. Pointer to the refs please.
    
    Yup.  I just happened to have an idle 6210 laying around :-)
    
    I hope the above has convinced you that the experiment methodologies are
    not trivial.  My group is discussing how to publish the results in such
    a way that the results are not misconstrued...
    
    
    John B.