Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    
    I'm feeling extremely distressed over how hopeless it seems,
    and how helpless I feel, sometimes.
    
    This shit just never stops, does it.
    
    Carla
    

This story is on page 14 of today's Boston Globe. It seems
the man was raping his 3 year old niece, in rush hour, in front
of lots of traffic on the FDR highway in NYC and NO ONE did 
anything except for the tow truck driver who caught the man!

    It's Kitty Genovese all over again.  People are unwilling to become
    involved -- "Hey, I could get hurt, and anyway it's not *my* problem, I
    don't even know the kid.  And if I do something, it'll be no end of
    hassle with the cops and all."
    
    How sick are we, anyway?
    
    -d

thank god for that man, the tow-truck driver.

Sara

    re. Why do people just watch?
    
    I don't believe that can all be written off to desensitisation. I
    believe that a much larger contributing factor is a growing sense of
    helplessness and distance.
    
    People are bombarded with images of war casualties, teen suicide,
    murders, arson, the S&L fiasco, drug trafficking, starving children,
    the homeless, AIDS ... the list goes on.
    
    I know quite a few people that see governments and 'The Powerful'
    continually fail at assuaging the horror, that look at their small
    selves and feel despair and impotence in the face of overwhelming
    issues and events.
    
    Some escape these small feelings by avoiding or denying the problem.
    When something like this is played out in your face, it's hard to
    deny; but there's still the numbing inertia of helplessness -- and then
    later guilt.
    
    Then sometimes there's disbelief.  Living in denial, slows the
    processing speed when one comes face to face with the unthinkable.
    
    I know this first hand from an experience I had some years ago.  I was
    sitting talking with Rick and another couple in a grove late one night
    when a man and woman came into view [about 100 ft away] apparently
    arguing and pushing each other.  It took me a full minute to grasp that
    she was being assaulted, _despite_ having lived through something very
    similar just three months earlier. And no one with me believed me -- it
    was too horrible to face what was happening in front of them -- until I
    started screaming and running at the man, none of them moved.  Not
    because they didn't care, but because they couldn't comprehend.
    
    Annie

    Why don't people get involved?
    
    Maybe they're afraid of a lawsuit.
    Like giving someone CPR and having them die anyway, family of deceased
    sues you for negligence in the death.
    
    Lisa

    
    Ever since Kitty Genovese (for those who don't know, I believe it is an
    incident in which a woman was beaten to death, possibly in broad
    daylight, in an area where there were plenty of observers but no one
    reported it or tried to save her), I have assumed that if something
    happened to me in New York City, I could expect NO assistance. I've met
    a LOT of New Yorkers, and by and large, they do seem desensitized.
    Perhaps in part from feeling helpless, in part from feeling
    overwhelmed, but also it seems that each individual act is a drop in
    the bucket. AND NYC is an area where you do run a high risk of
    retaliation if you interfere with a "disciplining process".
    
    In such a setting, crime becomes a virtual spectator sport.

nit to .6 --

If you have a current certification in CPR, and you do CPR on a person who is
injured by it or who dies (you can hurt or even kill someone even doing CPR 
correctly, depending on age & physical condition & injuries), the organization
that certified you will back you in court if you are sued.  I believe no one
in such a position has ever been successfully sued.

That's what the Amer.RedCross &/or HeartAssoc have always told me in CPR
courses.

Sara

    Kitty Genovese, a pretty young woman, was stabbed to death by a lone
    assailant late one evening while returning from her job as a nurse. 
    The incident occurred on a public street in her own neighborhood, in
    full view of at least 43 witnesses, none of whom did anything to
    prevent or stop the attack.  The number of withesses was fixed by a
    subsequent police investigation; it is quoted in the report as "at
    least" because only 43 of the people interviewed admitted to having
    seen anything.
    
    Desensitization is clearly not limited to New York, 'ren; it's just
    acknowledged more freely when New York is the topic of conversation.
    
    -d

    
    How horrible.  I can't even describe how sickened and hopeless I feel.
    I would think that especially because the victim was a child, people would
    intervene.  When witnesses were questioned in the Kitty Genovese
    murder, many said that they thought it was her husband.  She was
    stabbed dozens of times but no major artery was severed -- she could
    have been saved.  I don't know if we can chalk this up to the jadedness
    of the people of NYC, though I'm sure they are more desensitized to
    violence and crime than others.  I've never been one to pray, but if I
    were, I would pray that if I'm ever witness to such a horrible crime, I
    do something to help.  
    
    Justine
    
    There is a kind of shock that sets in when you see something like this
    happening -- it can't be.  I must be wrong.  Is anyone else doing
    anything?  Once when my sweetie and I were in San Francisco, we saw a
    man getting beat up (robbed?) by a group of men (on a Sunday morning!).
    We were across the street, and we stood there a while watching --
    what's happening?  Finally, (after a minute or so) we found a phone and
    called the police -- it certainly didn't seem safe to intervene when we
    were so outnumbered..  It's possible to be safe and still do something.
    
                     

    I hope I never turn my back on a 3 year old who needs help.  the pain
    from this whole situation is just unreal to me.
    
    I hope those who stood by and watched had a good nights sleep.

    You know, there are people who think I am terrible for not wanting
    children.  But I would NEVER stand by and watch that!  I am terrified
    of physical confrontation, but I would NEVER stand by and watch that!
    
    gack
    
    E Grace

    The song goes:  "All's quiet on West 23rd.  Nobody saw her, nobody
    heard".  It came out shortly after the Genovese stabbing.  The incident
    was shocking and it made news because this kind of thing was *new*.  It's
    fitting that such jadedness began in NYC, but that was over 20 years
    ago and it's now spread.  To Montreal, to Boston, to Kenya, the
    Phillipines, and it's continuing to spread.  So much so that it's no 
    longer new enough to be news anymore.  Just another day in the life.
    
    "Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world and everywhere the blood-dimmed
    tide is loosed.  The best lack all conviction while the worst are full
    of passionate intensity."
    
    Read Yeat's "The Second Coming".  Maybe you'll begin to understand.
    
    I reiterate - We've lost it, folks.  And as the world slides into the 
    sewer...
                                                                       
    S.

    To read what E Grace just said, knowing her nonviolence religious
    beliefs and knowing how strong they are, truly gives me hope. Even in
    the face of what we just read in the base note, it still gives me hope.
    If a nonviolent member of a pacifist religion can make that statement,
    then in the long run we will win. It is a dirty crying abomination that
    these acts still must occur to get us to peace.
    
    Maybe we could take out a full page add in the paper where this
    happened, expressing our dismay and shock, not only at the act, but at
    the apathy of the witnesses. If it only shames one into acting next
    time, then it will be worth it. I'll donate to that.
    
    PJ
    

  Ah, look outside the window there's a woman being grabbed
  they've dragged her to the bushes and now she's being stabbed
  maybe we should call the cops and try to stop the pain
  but we've got to move and mighty soon
  'cause it looks like its gonna rain

  And I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody
  outside a small circle of friends..




 Phil Ochs ~1965

    Social psychologists say that part of the reason for our lack of social
    conscience -- our general madness, if you please -- is population
    pressure.
    
    Experiments with rats showed that when the population in a given space
    exceeds a certain density the rats go off their trolleys.  The
    experimenters noted in their paper that it was necessary to create the
    conditions artificially; rats do not willingly breed themselves into
    overpopulation.  In fact, their birthrate is adjusted by conditions;
    when the population declines, females have larger litters, and when the
    population rises, litter size decreases.
    
    $ set note/mode=slightly_sarcastic
    
    We humans do not appear to have such restraint...
    
    -d

For some reason, I have always been skeptical about applying studies done
on rat sociology to humans.

D!

    me too, rats don't hold a candle to humans in the visciousness dept.

    PJ, 
    
    my non-violence would not be an issue.  I would just have to find some
    way to stop it without harming the man...because, no matter what, I
    believe there is that of God in *him* also.  But calling the police
    would not be so onerous an action, trying to restrain the man....
    
    		*SOMETHING*
    
    I just couldn't stand by.
    
    This is not at all contradictory with my belief in pacifistic action. 
    You see, that is the crux; it is not passivism, it is pacifism.  There
    is a difference.
    
    E Grace, Li.C.H.T.

    
    At this point, I am so disappointed in our society.  Remember
    a year or two ago when people burned to death in their car at
    a MASS toll booth while many people watched?  This isn't just
    New York.  
    
    Last tuesday, I got out of the shower to hear a woman screaming,
    "Call 911, call 911!  my baby fell out the window!"  Much to my
    husband's dismay, I shouted to her to stay with her child and not
    to move her in any way.  I phoned 911 and it rang 4 times, by that
    point the woman screamed that someone else had called them and to 
    please come help her.  I started to just run, (in my bathrobe).
    Since we live in a rotten neighborhood my husband had a fit,
    screaming at me to get dressed.  I did and ran out.  One of my other
    neighbors had just gotten there a couple of seconds before and
    had people in control.  This naked girl about 1 year old was sprawled
    on the sidewalk.  Out of the probably 12-15 people there, the only
    ones DOING anything were myself and this man.  Everyone else just
    gawked.  I found out later that it was this man's wife who'd phoned
    911 and directed to ambulance, fire truck and police to where
    the child lay on the sidewalk.  I left as soon as the ambulance
    arrived.  This incident shocked the heck out of me because my
    husband was just sitting on the bed listening. MY HUSBAND.  a
    caring loving man was just sitting there!  I asked him about this
    later and he said that the other neighbors had shouted out that
    they were calling 911.  That the mother hadn't known that cause
    she was just too upset to comprehend.  But still!  People are just
    too willing to trust that someone else took responsibility.  I
    couldn't stand to stay inside and take the chance that I was the
    most educated person.  That I could help that little girl.
    On the other hand, my husband was surprised at my ego.  Thinking
    that I can help her and no one else can.  
    
    I wonder if someone earlier was right.  People just feel too
    helpless. They don't vote cause it won't matter.  Don't help
    because who are they to assume that they can.  I was raised
    a bit strangely.  I've always had this egotistical belief
    that I can fix everything.  (This week, that's getting severly
    erroded.)  Maybe it's a self-belief thing!
    
    Rachael
    

    I understand E, I'm just glad to see such a reaction to this. I know
    you and know that even if you hadn't stated it, you would have done
    something. You are to loving and caring a person to not do something. 
    
    Now me. As I stated elsewhere in this file, I think the discussion on
    what to do about the screaming, I think I would attempt to severely
    disable this man. My own consequences be damned. In fact, back in my
    gas station employee days of 20 years ago, afellow worker was arrested,
    tried and convicted of statutory rape. His own 4 year old daughter and
    her 3 year old friend. He served less then a year. He came back looking
    to get his old job back. When we were done with him, he left town
    walking awfully funny. Never saw him again. These people disgust me to
    the point of violence. I know it makes little or no better then thay
    are, but women and child beaters and molestors and rapists just set
    something off in me.
    
    PJ

    re: .8

>If you have a current certification in CPR, and you do CPR on a person who is
>injured by it or who dies (you can hurt or even kill someone even doing CPR 
>correctly, depending on age & physical condition & injuries), the organization
>that certified you will back you in court if you are sued.  I believe no one
>in such a position has ever been successfully sued.
>
>That's what the Amer.RedCross &/or HeartAssoc have always told me in CPR
>courses.

    I'm an American Heart Association CPR Instructor.  At least as far as
    the AHA is concerned, the reply quoted above contains a number of
    errors.  (I've never been involved with ARC CPR and have no knowledge
    of their policies, so none of the statements below should be taken to
    apply to the ARC.)

    An individual who completes an AHA CPR class is not "certified" to
    perform CPR - they receive a card stating they have completed a skill
    examination at a specified level.  I'm not sure if the wording on the
    cards has changed recently (I don't have any old ones on hand to
    check), but instructors are being told to be very careful to avoid use
    of the word "certified" in connection with CPR training.

    I've never seen a statement by the AHA (or the ARC, for that matter)
    stating they will become involved in an individual's legal defense in
    a case arising from the performance of CPR.  If subpoenaed they will
    produce whatever documentation is required, but that's about it.

    Many jurisdictions in the U.S. do have so-called Good Samaritan laws
    which are intended to protect individuals who voluntarily provide first
    aid or CPR in an emergency situation.  The details vary, but these
    laws usually apply to people who:

    	(a) provide aid within and to the scope of their training,
    	(b) do not commit gross negligence in doing so,
    	(c) are not obligated to provide such aid,
    	(d) and receive no compensation for providing such aid.

    Contrary to popular belief, these laws (or most of them, anyway) do not
    prevent someone from filing a lawsuit against a Good Samaritan - they
    only dictate the outcome under the specified conditions.
    
    	- Jerry

When an accident or injury is committed or done, a person has a better
    chance of receiving help if only 1-2 persons are witnesses rather
    than a group. 

	Hard to make excuses for the folks that watched such an
	abomination, but here are a couple:

	1) Fear of assault.
		"This guy is probably deranged.  He may be armed.
		 He outweighs me by 100 lbs. 
		  I am not legally able to carry a gun in New
		  York.  What can I do ?"

	2) Fear of getting involved.
		"If I tackle this guy, the police might arrive right
		  as I wrestle him to the ground, they might think
		  I'm an accomplice.  This crime is so horrible that
	 	  I'd be tried and convicted in the press before the
		  truth came out."

	I'm pretty much a "doer".  I ran out of my apartment one
	night when I heard a woman screaming, really screaming.

	I guess I didn't think it through, but if the guy who had been
	bugging her had been armed or had decided to stay, I'd have
	been in *real* deep ( 130 pounders don't induce a lot of
	fear in bullies ).

	Several hundred thousand times each year ordinary citizens
	stop assaults on others with their privately owned guns.  Since
	the police can't be everywhere at once, my approach to
	things has changed since that night...

	Steve H

    
    
    	I understand about the dreaded "rats in a box" syndrome.
    	They were teaching that when I took psychology in undergrad
    	school many moons ago. I guess they were right. I also never
    	cease to be amazed at the human capacity for violence and
    	absolute robotic cruelty to other humans, animals, etc.
    	I do not consider myself a pacifist and I do not consider
    	myself at the other side of the spectrum either. I prefer
    	to believe that before I create any new karma for myself
    	in this world, I would *think* about it and make it a
    	conscious act. While I would not initiate a deliberate, unprovoked
        attack on a supposedly sentient fellow being, I don't believe
    	I would hesitate to step into something like this real quick.
    	I would have a very hard time living with myself if I just
    	stood by.
    	I maintain the position that we need to look at ourselves
    	as a society and see where this kind of stuff comes from. Not
    	only the attacking but the passive response. I used to think
    	if we could just get the court system back on track that would
    	fix it. Now I am not convinced that will do it. The problem is
    	deeper than that and I think the magnitude has almost reached
    	the point that there will be no negotiable, reasonable ending
    	for us as a society. That is sad and frightening. We are supposed
    	to be possessed of the ability to reason. I think we are losing
    	that. We need to think of a way to get that back.
    
    							kim
     

    None of the people who watched were under any legal obligation
    to assist the child in any way.  As long as they did not invite
    or encourage the man to commit the crime, they have committed
    no legal wrong.  They had no legal responsability.  They had
    no legal accountability.  Since they were not legally responsable
    for that child, they could have let him kill her without being
    implicated in any way.  At worst, I wonder if the mother could
    somehow be charged with negligence of some kind, since she IS
    responsable.
    
    In the case of Kitty Genovese, I believed that she had been assaulted
    more than once on that evening.  I had heard that she did not die
    the first time, and that her assailant had heard, left, and returned
    to finish her.  The primary excuse of the individuals for why they
    did not do anything were "I thought someone else was calling 911" and
    "I did not want to become involved."
    
    My SO was grapling @2:30+ in the morning with this whole series
    of scenarios/realities.  Apparently, you do not have to help
    a drowning child if it is not related to you, or it is not your
    pool either.
    
    The problem... The law is only a reflection of morality,
    and not morality itself.  In the case of group action, they are
    still significantly separate issues.  I sometimes wonder if seeing
    and not acting were illegal, would more people act...Even when
    they were at risk with themselves.  Maybe if they feared the
    law more???  But then... how do we enforce it?
    
    Cindi
    I know this may sound cold... but concentrating on the RULES sometimes
    obscures the REAL issues enough for me so that I can stomach them.
    Otherwise, how could we get out of bed each day and face the world
    we live in?

    
    
    	re: .26
    
    	Do you think that we should legislate that people
    	should help? We already legislate that people shouldn't
    	do things to other people that would require other people
    	to help. That doesn't seem to matter anymore. 
    
    							kim
    

    
    For me, the legality of the issue is not what's important -- it's the
    rightness or wrongness (main reason why I didn't become a lawyer as
    my father wanted me to) -- those people who watched and did nothing
    were wrong, as I see it.
    
    What must that little girl have thought/felt?  Here was this trusted
    adult raping her, and off in the distance a large group of adults
    were watching -- could she see them?  Did she expect that they would
    help her?  had she given up before that man finally came to her aid?
    Will she ever be able to trust anyone again?  Should she?
    
    Justine

    Re .28
    
    Emotions:
     Of what she can remember... 
       what she will remember...
          what does not fall into a self protective void that
            she may have to build in herself in order to keep her
              sanity... It pains me to guess... and on it I do not
                think I am strong enough to speak and keep a firm
                  grip on the note or much else...
              
    You are far braver than I to be able to try in this forum-
       without tears, welling anger,
         or for me ferverent prayer. I will, however, where I can
    watch you explore that venue... should you choose... and maybe one
    day, I will be able to join you... and root out her/our anguish
    from its core... but for now it is too much.
    
    As I explained before...I result to the "Rules" because they give
    some form to the insanity, and for me, offer structure to the madness/
    cruelty that helps stave off depression or utter hopelessness... A lever
    through which we my be able to address the situation... without being
    swallowed by the Void. It is intended to be a "constructive" separation
    of self.  I know it is cold. I have had to work to make it that hard.
    
    Re: .27
    
    This I can handle.
    From the edges, or the distant fringes, from whence these people
    watched, I can only think of one equally distant edge or fringe
    that might have touched them where the obvious dire straights
    of the little girl did not.  Rousseau???(sp?) speaks of actions
    done by the "savage" for his fellow man out of empathy.  It
    has got to be something he can see in his fellow man, and feel
    it in himself.  A stage of development is supposed to have been
    built on that.  In the event that the empathetic reaction is not
    strong enough to force action, I propose that a different emotion
    might breed action.  Morality should have done it, but did not.
    Only fear was left.  Possibly a fear that the punishment for just
    watching might be as great or worse for the voyeurs as the
    peril they may have perceived in interrupting.
    
    To me, that required a law.  Granted, it would be almost impossible
    to enforce, everyone could be everyone else's alibi.  A chorus of
    hear no evils comes to mind with even the simple proposition of 
    legislation.  However, to me, it is a step...a small step... maybe
    we could stop one or two of the more obvious ones??? One or two
    people afraid enough for their own skins that they would pre-empt
    the destruction of hers??? One or two little girls taking one less
    step toward the void???
    
    Cindi

    .22, vmszoo::eckert
    (love that node name!)
    
    thanks for the clarifications; I reported what I remembered but your
    info is certainly more current and more likely to be correct!

    one...
    
    Everyone who has responded to this note in this file has said they
    *would* do something if they saw someone being attacked/raped/beaten...
    
    Are the people in =wn= more daring, more moral or more reactive than
    the cross section of the population who watched Kitty Genovese get
    killed and a little girl get raped on the highway?
    
    Or are they kidding themselves?
    
    two...
    
    I am against the idea of making a law that requires one to help in the
    case of an attack, for many reasons.  Main ones are: what, yet another
    infringement on our personal civil rights???  and Oh good, that means
    it will be even *harder* to get witnesses to come forward against the
    perpetrator, since by doing so they will have to admit to their own
    crime.  and Who gets sued when someone gets the **** beat out of him
    trying to help someone else, and he says the only reason he got
    involved was to keep himself out of jail?
    
    D!

    a well-known psychology experiment...
    
    scenario 1) put a single person in a room alone and ask hir to fill out
    a questionnaire.  During the process, let smoke enter the room from
    behind a locked door.  Most people will investigate and when they
    can't open the door, will tell someone "Hey, I think there's a fire."
    
    scenario 2)  same as above except with 3 to 4 people.  Results? 
    Apparently, they choose to burn to death.  With shared "responsibility"
    it seems that inaction is some kind of conditioned norm.
    
    \D/

    Some case histories:
    
    On a subway in Chicago, I watched an arm reach into a handbag and pull
    out a wallet.  I noisily said to the handbag owner, "That man just
    took your wallet."  There was a lot of confusion and as the train
    pulled into a station, I jumped out and raced to the conductor's
    window.  I told him what was happening.  He said "find a policeman"
    but then he closed the doors and the train pulled away.  I was pissed.
    Don't know the outcome.
    
    I was walking with a friend when we heard a woman yelling, "that man
    just stole my purse".  We took off running after the man and caught
    him.  The purse was recovered and the police took the man away.  Don't
    know the outcome.
    
    My wife and I were awakened to screams of "Help, rape!"  Looking out
    we saw a frantic woman in the opposite vestibule with her blouse torn
    off, ringing doorbells.  I was throwing on some clothes and my wife
    was calling the police when the someone let the woman in and since she
    disappeared and seemed safe and since we did not witness anything
    except her screaming, we figured it was up to her to call the police 
    and we went back to bed, though not to sleep well.
    
    I was walking along the lakefront in Chicago with a friend.  He was in
    a swimming suit.  Someone ran up to us (probably thinking my friend was
    a lifeguard) and said a woman was drowning.  We looked up in time to
    see her slip beneath the surface.  My friend dived in to get her.  He
    was a English Channel swimmer, so I stayed on shore to assist on that
    end.  There was a crowd of 20 or 25 standing around, but nobody else
    did a thing, even the woman's boyfriend.  My friend pulled her into the
    rocks and I hauled her out.  She wasn't breathing.  My friend started 
    resuscitation while I ran to a hospital a block away to get help.  She 
    survived.
    
    I guess I've witnessed my share of troubles.  I also think I know how
    I react in this kind of situation.  I also know how a lot of people in
    crowds react.  You can't count on them.
    
    						- Vick

    I know I would be to scared to intervene. But I won't stand there and
    watch. I would call the police.
    That's what I find so difficult to accept. I can understand that people
    were scared and didn't want to get involved themselves. But did noone
    call the police or 911? 
    
    manisha

D! sez:

>   Everyone who has responded to this note in this file has said they
>    *would* do something if they saw someone being attacked/raped/beaten...
>    
>    Are the people in =wn= more daring, more moral or more reactive than
>    the cross section of the population who watched Kitty Genovese get
>    killed and a little girl get raped on the highway?
>    
>    Or are they kidding themselves?
  
D!, if you're deliberately setting up a straw horse, then say so.  Otherwise
I think you're being extremely unfair.  SEVERAL people gave examples of
WHAT THEY HAVE DONE (not what they "*would*" do).  Some of those include
responses of disbelief that something was happening, and initial slowness
of response.

True Story:

One night at 10:30, I was in bed reading when I heard a woman scream
"help me" below my bedroom window.  I grabbed the phone to dial 911 and told
my current squeeze to yell out the window that we were calling the police, then
beat it down there, after having shoved myself into a pair of jeans (I wasn't
exactly dressed for the street.  By the time I hit the pavement (I live on
the 3rd floor), two patrol cars were there.  The woman wasn't.  Response
time: about 60 seconds.  I stood around talking to the cops for a while.  While
I was talking to them, two more calls came through about this _one_ scream.
In all, 7 people had picked up the phone and dialed 911 within 2 minutes of
the _one_ scream.  The woman?  Some people passing by in a car witnessed
the attack (it was a purse snatch-and-grab, with possible sexual assault)
had already taken her to the nearest hospital.

So D!, there were at least 8 people who were concerned enough to act, and
act quickly, and only one of them is a =wnoter= :-)

I'm lucky, I live in Brookline, where police response is usually that good,
and the cops *never* tell us "you just wasted our time; you shouldn't have
called" -- even when it turns out to be a false alarm (have you ever heard
teenagers shrieking for the heck of it? It makes one's blood run cold).

Which leads to my point ("Finally!" you cry :-).  If there is reinforcement for
Doing the Right Thing, most people will.  So there needs to be work on 
community reinforcement and police response (surprise, surprise!).

I'm no braver than the average bear :-), but I have faced down threatening
people successfully.  This leads me to find it easier to do the next time.  The
problem is, if when facing down a threatening person, you're more likely to
be piled on by additional threatening people, you're unlikely to act.

Bobbi "when will the deadline for scum pass?" Fox

    
    Hi.
    Perhaps this is inappropriate, but I think this topic could 
    use this.  These items appeared in Police Blotter in the
    Wednesday, 17 July Seattle Times. Typed in without permission.
    Since there's only 3 short items, I'm typing them all:
    
    Issaquah
    700 Front Street Soutn - A man was arrested for assault after he
    was reportedly seen striking a woman several times with a closed
    fist. (July 16)
    
    21 Front Street North - After a man was seen hitting his girlfriend
    in public, another man stepped in to stop the fight.  (July 14)
    
    140 West Sunset Way - During a neighbor dispute about parking on the
    roadway, one of the participants "mooned" the other.  (July 14)
    
    ***********
    So, in 2 out of the 3 items from Issaquah, witnesses *did* something
    to help.
    
    Pat
    

    
    Carla - 
    
    I empathize.  This just makes me sick, at the deepest core of my being. 
                                                       
    Jamd

    I want to reinforce the "you have to reinforce doing the right thing"
    message from a couple back.
    
    A couple of years ago, there was a grass fire on 495 between LKG and
    the next exit north.  There was a strip of flame that went for about 2
    miles, with a pretty good size piece of hillside opposite LKG burning
    merrily and a truck there.  I pulled off and called 911 to let them
    know *how far up the road* there were problems.  The dispatcher
    basically told me I had wasted his time, as they already knew about it.
    
    I'll think twice before calling in the future, unfortunately.
    
    Alison

    I was at Wyman's beach, in Pepperell, for a family outing.
    We had stopped off at the main office to ask where our
    section was, and were leaving the office when a man and
    another man, who was clutching a badly bleeding arm,
    came into the office for help.  Not one of the three workers
    would help, not even to give the guy a bandaid.  They just
    kept babbling about directions to the hospital.  I calmly
    asked them if they had a first aid kit.  No.  Then one remembered
    they did have some cloth pressure bandages, and would they do?
    Yes, I told them to get them for me, and I made the guy with the
    injury sit down, as he had been standing this whole time listening
    to this crap going on, and was starting to look a little shocky.
    I asked them to call the police to send a cruiser to transport
    the man to the hospital.  Then I pressure bandaged the man's
    arm, and told him not to stand until the police arrived, and
    then he said thank you, and my husband & I left.
    I saw him later that day with a bandaged arm.
    
         
    
    HRH

    something that happened on my street to a friend of mine:
    
    A young couple were walking down the street and began to argue,
    the man began to hit the woman and the woman screamed for help.
    My friend ran to help her, when he got to the couple she stopped
    screaming and the man pulled out a gun and held him while the woman
    robbed him.  According to the police this couple "work" the neighbor-
    hood this way... they wait for lone men passers by and when one
    is in hearing distance they start their act.
    
    After reading this string of notes and listening to the radio
    news yesterday I went home and cried and cried.   It all feels so 
    hopeless...
    
    I don't wanna be a human being anymore.  I want to go back to
    the reservation and stay there.  I want to help that little girl
    heal... I want to scream and rage at those people that just
    stood there...  when I was ... when I was "attacked" I screamed
    until they gagged me... as far as I know no one called the police.  
    
    with love...
    cheyenne

    Make the call.  Who cares if you get a stupid dispatcher.  They don't
    pay them much, so don't expect much.  I have a ham radio in my car
    that I can use to patch into local phone systems to dial 911 or other
    emergency numbers.  I've called in enumerable fender benders, stalled
    vehicles, etc.  No one has ever suggested I was wasting their time.
    But if they did, it wouldn't deter me from making the calls.  
    
    						- Vick

    re .40
    
    Well said cheyenne!  
    
    Karen

    In the DC area now there have been so many 911 calls that they are
    seriously considering suing people who make calls that aren't valid or
    aren't serious enough (beauracracy version of serious) to require
    emergency support.
    
    Did anyone watch Primetime live (or one of those shows) last week about
    the mother who is hiding her teenaged son because the state won't get
    this boy, a violent pedophile (who raped repeatedly his younger brother
    and others) an sort of help.  All the state did was keep him in a safe
    house with no education or any type of psycological help.
    
    Last year, my friend and I were in Salisbury England on holiday.  We
    stood in the freezing cold by a small river with a strong current.  The
    river was shallow and there was no ice around the edges.  I stood in
    disbelief as a young girl, not dressed for the cold, came crying
    towards us, bobbing up and down with the current.  All the people on
    the riverbanks (and there were about 30) froze, with the exception of
    myself and my friend.  We ran to help.  I jumped down the banking and
    didn't even care whether I got sick or wet.  I was intent on grabbing
    this small girl.  Luckily, a young man jumped into the water before me
    and dragged her out.  Where was this girls mother?  Sometimes at night,
    I still can't sleep thinking about it and wondering what would of
    happened if I hadn't been there and the young man hadn't been there. 
    The mother was no where in sight.  We brought the child (about 2 1/2
    years old) to the police station.  I don't know what happened from
    there.
    
    Another instance:  in the affluent town I am from, two prominent males
    (read: from "good" old families) in town were reprimanded ONLY after
    they had been caught molesting young children.   One of the men was our
    neighbor.  He had molested my sister and nearly all the young people
    from the neighborhood.  I didn't count myself lucky to have escaped. 
    The other man molested me -- at the age of 7, in full view of at least
    100 people.  When my mother tried to press charges, she was told,
    "don't bother, his family has power and money and it will just be
    thrown out in court".  She found out he had molested at least 30 young
    boys and girls, and had been hospitalized for mental instability.
    
    Sometimes I think hell is actually here on earth.  How could God make
    us suffer and struggle so much, otherwise.  It is difficult for me to
    bare my soul here, in a public notesfile, about something so terrible,
    but this is just another example of the dark side of human nature.  
    
    Tammi

    I keep a list of local town police department phone numbers in my
    billfold so I can call them instead of 911 for minor fender benders.  
    			- Vick

    .36
    
    	The problem with your 2 out of 3 figure - the sampling you have
    	is of those incidents where a call was made in the first place.
    	How many incidents never got to the point of someone notifying the
    	police?
    
    	clb
    

    Ah, the wonderful world of womanhood.  Our pedestals are indeed comfy
    and warm as we pass away the hours doing our nails and watching the
    Miss America pageant, thinking of nothing more than what to wear on our
    next date to look good and make that stranger and all others smile in
    approval as we float by.  That's the world of women!
    
    This just took me about 5 minutes after reading this and the Kenya
    string.  
    
    Happily from beau to beau, that is where the beauties go.  
    Watch your language, cuz women don't know,
    The crudeness of the men they tow.
    
    Those sheltered sweets have no idea, 
    Their pampered brows not knit with fear.
    Man says he's born to her, protect,
    So harsh reality, shall never infect
    Her sensuous world of gentle delight,
    Her languid day, her soft, dreamy night.
    
    Men chuckle in private, away from the girls
    Who must never know how real life unfurls
    And if/when they betray that they've known all the while,
    And their faces are drawn, just turn and say "smile"!
    
    Cuz that isn't the life that women here live,
    It's not the idea men wanted to give.
    They're gentle and loving and forever sweet
    As long as they never set foot on the street!
                             
    Sandy
     

    re .45
    
    I wasn't giving an example of incidents that never got
    to the point of someone notifying the police, I was trying
    to give an example that *at least sometimes people do try
    to help*.  I was trying to interject a *small* but positive
    fact. 
    
    How many items were listed in yesterday's  NYC papers where someone
    helped?  maybe that was my point.
    
    Peace from the Great Northwest,
    Pat
    

    I'll never forget an incident that happened to me about 10 years ago.
    
    I had just visited my father in the hospital and on my way back to work
    took a side road that connected two main arteries of the city.  I was
    about halfway down the road when suddently in shock and disbelief I
    slammed on my brakes to avoid hitting a BABY LYING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
    STREET!!!!!  I got out of the car and a small toddler of about 3 years
    old came to retrieve her baby brother/sister.  I assited her, put them
    safely in their yard, latched the fence and went to the nearest phone
    to notify the police.
    
    Their response was "we know the address, we'll go see what we can do
    this time"!  I made a point of driving down that street for a full week
    to see if this was a common occurrence.  I had dreams for quite awhile
    about all that 'could' have happened to that poor child.
    
    Why didn't I go to the door?  The children were so dirty and badly
    clothed that I was left with the impression that the 3 year old was
    probably held 'responsible' for the baby. I was truly afraid of what would
    probably happen to her if her faux pas was revealed.
    
    What a world we live in, hugh?
    
    

    Ish!  
    
    I was an EMT years ago.  I can tell you a lot more about people who did
    not care or get involved than about people who did.  MY personal policy
    is, if an official response team is there (police, EMT, fire Dept, etc)
    just keep going, if not, stop and render assistance while sending
    someone else for help.  If it is not possible to stop and/or render
    assistance, go quickly and call for help.
    
    Most people, in my experience, just watch.  I do not know why, some of
    the earlier replies may have the answers.  All I know is that I can't
    just stand by.
    
    At least the tow truck driver did something.  That is important.
    jimc

    Does anyone have the details of the retraction of this story?

    I only heard snippets of it on the news, but apparently the original
    story about people standing around doing nothing simply wasn't true.

    This is my understanding of what happened:

    Yes, there were people, and yes, they were standing around, but only
    because the first people who actually SAW something stopped immediately
    and blocked traffic.  Except for the people in front, who saw what was
    happening (and, according to the later story) tried to stop it, the
    other drivers had no idea what was really going on.
    
    
    If you go back and read the base note, some of the flaws of the story
    begin to show:  why, for example, would twenty people stop driving on
    the FDR (a major road) at 5:15 in the afternoon to watch a felony?
    Simple --  that's not why they stopped.
    
    I realize this is futile -- the retraction will never catch the
    slander.
    
    					andrew

    What I heard on NPR was that traffic backed up on the road at about the
    same time the 2 (I think) people who saw the rapist stopped. The guy
    who was intervewed said he and another guy got down by the woods (or
    field, or whatever) in time to see the rapist pulling up his pants.
    
    He also said the only reason people were stopped was that traffic was
    heavy and he doubted that the people in their cars could've seen the
    incident from their perspective, even if they had been looking.
    
    I heard this over a month ago, so I'm fuzzy on the details...
    
    --DE