Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    I have heard of similar sexual situations happening with men of *any* 
    age...most notably those with physical impairments of one kind or another.
     
    What I have heard "recommended" is that fellatio or some other form of 
    foreplay be *e x t e n d e d*  to a climax for the man, then wait a period 
    of five to ten minutes, then proceed with a *mutual* satisfying of one 
    another.
    
    There is nothing wrong with this "procedure", and I believe that only a 
    person's ego would consider it "unfair" that one partner gets to be
    "satisfied" twice. It may not be you that's the problem, but you are in
    the best position to resolve it. Good luck ;')
    

    in re .2
    
    Kevin, 
    
    I would have presumed that men with this sort of problem would not
    be able to 'function' twice in such a short period of time.
    
    Bonnie

    I'm sure it does vary with the individual male, but it has been known to 
    occur within that timespan. Maybe a few minutes more or less, again,
    depending upon the individual. This is just what I recall hearing...
    "mileage" may vary :-) :-) Patience and understanding is what's called for
     in these kinds of situations. Additional pressure upon the male to
    'function' isn't going to make things better...in fact, it probably will 
    lead to far worse "scenarios" between the couple involved.

    From what I recall of the reading I have done on this subject, men who
    suffer from premature ejaculation are often only premature on the
    *first* ejaculate.  There is no reason they would not be able to be
    stimulated to erection again within a fairly short time; the second
    time, ejaculation should take longer to occur.
    
    E Grace

    .1 What I find interesting is if I lost the ability to perform a bodily 
       function I would not accept it I would see if I could get it fixed.
    
       It sounds as if the common attitude might be that it is inevitable
       and yet there are stories and evidence of men having the ability
       to performinto their eighties.

Ummm...Joyce, knowing men as I do, I reallyreally doubt that most men
who find themselves suffering from impotency simply accept it as
incurable and don't worry about it.  The mere thought is enough to make
me fall off my chair laughing.

D!

Anyway, it doesn't sound like the basenoter's issue is really how to
deal with the various sexual dysfunctions, but rather whether the
sexual aspect of her relationships is *worth* dealing with it. After
all, she (I'm assuming female) did say that if someone she already
loved developed such a problem, that would be different.

Anon, I think I see where you are coming from.  If a long-term lover of
mine developed a problem, I would work with hir to find a resolution.
But if at the very start of a relationship s/he had a problem, I might
be pretty inclined to just say "forget it, it isn't worth it."  That
might seem cruel - people with sexual dysfunctions are still people,
still deserving of love, etc.  But I have a tendency to be involved
with people that need "fixing", either of the emotional, spiritual or
physical variety, and until they are fixed, the relationship doesn't
give me what I need.  I often go in to these relationships gung-ho on
fixing them, but it is unhealthy because many times I *can't* fixed
them, and in addition to feeling unsatisfied, I also feel guilty for
failure.

D!

> Ummm...Joyce, knowing men as I do, I reallyreally doubt that most men
> who find themselves suffering from impotency simply accept it as
> incurable and don't worry about it
    
    Well, knowing men as *I* do 8-)  I'd have to say that you're half
    right.  Most men wouldn't "not worry about" impotence, but that doesn't
    necessarily mean they'll DO anything about it either!
    
    A lot of men have a *lot* of self-image tied up in sexual prowess. 
    Couple that with the fact that it's *verboten* for most men to admit
    any kind of vulnerability.  The result is that while a man may be
    keenly *aware* of a sexual problem, many men can't bring themselves to 
    talk about it to a doctor or therapist.  They ignore it and hope it'll
    go away... [the problem that is... not the sex drive!].
    
    --jim
    

> Ummm...Joyce, knowing men as I do, I reallyreally doubt that most men
> who find themselves suffering from impotency simply accept it as
> incurable and don't worry about it
    
    Well, knowing men as *I* do 8-)  I'd have to say that you're half
    right.  Most men wouldn't "not worry about" impotence, but that doesn't
    necessarily mean they'll DO anything about it either!
 
yeah, Jim, I realized after I hit the "enter note" button that I
had forgotten half of what I wanted to write, which is that I except
most men wouldn't "easily accept" a problem like impotency, they might
also not seek help, because of so much shame in admitting it (either
to themselves, to doctors or shrinks or to their lovers.)

D!

[PS: Hey you men reading this!  sexual problems of this sort of very
  common among men!  You may think you are the only one but you 
  aren't!  Every man I've been with who had a "problem" [and there have 
  been quite a few] were deeply shamed and thought they were the
  only one. Actually, base on my [admitadly not statistically significant]
  sample, I'd say it is more like 1/3.]

    re.0 First, he should see a doctor to find out if the problem
    is o ris not physical. Stress from many sources can, umm, take
    a man out of the game. Insecurity in a relationship can come
    from past history, feeling that the relationship is going 
    'too fast, too soon', not being sure one is loved (with its'
    terrible corrollary, not feeling worthy of being love.) 
    
    Lots of guys remember the good old days when they got an erection every
    time the wind blew, and they could get it on with anything in a 
    skirt. As you get older your subconscious gets stronger as your
    sex drive gets weaker. No more hopping into bed on first or second date.
    
    ("What do you mean, sex? I hardly know you." Wierd hearing yourself
    using lines you used to *hate* hearing from women ;-) )
    

    
    >>Basically my question is, Is it me?  Or is this a common unspoken problem?
    
    	Yes, this is a *very* common problem among us guys.  No, it is
    (most probably) not you.  Possible causes often include:
    
        a.  Being just too damned tired.  One of the most common.  Simply a
    case of "Spirit willing, flesh weak".  Adequate rest cures it.
    
    	b.  Drugs of all types, especially blood pressure medications, 
    tricyclic antidepressants, Prozac. major tranquilizers (Mellaril or
    Thorazine), and of course alcohol.
    
    	c.  Physical problems of many sorts, including prostate troubles,
    diabetes, very high *or* low blood pressure, hypoglycemia, kidney
    stones, urinary tract problems, et al. . . .  If such impotence (i.e.
    impaired erectile capacity) occurs chronically, a complete physical is 
    *most* definitely in order.  Quite often, impotence can be one of the
    only symptoms of a more serious health problem.
    
    	d.  Feeling under pressure to "perform".  Let's say that an episode
    of impotence has occurred.  The next time, imagine how it must feel to
    be the guy, waiting and wanting for certain bodily parts to do their
    assigned tasks, and . . . . .they just don't.  You would be scared,
    actually.  Scared that, well, your parnter is disappointed in you. 
    Scared that you'll never get to chance to try this again with this
    person.  Scared that your own body is somehow betraying you, denying 
    you the chance to give and receive one of life's more special
    pleasures.  The fear and anxiety carries over to the next time, and the 
    time after that.  Finally, it can get so bad (I'm speaking from experience
    here) that, during the onset of lovemaking the principal thoughts are
    not ones of joyful anticipation and pleasure, but rather, "Oh please
    God, let this work, don't let me fail, please don't let me be impotent
    this time !  Please, please . . . . "         ;-(
    
    
   >> Also if you are a man and you were single and had this problem how
   >> would you want a potential partner to treat you?
    
	With great love, compassion and patience.  When I was having these
    kind of problems, I was lucky enough to find a partner who showed me
    these things, as well as the fact that, well, sex is not limited to 
    "straight" intercourse.  Two creative people can certainly find a wide
    spectrum of things to do that are mutually pleasing and satisfying.  Once 
    a partner is reassured that, yes, they are still "viable", still able
    to give and receive physical satisfaction to their partner,  then quite 
    often the original problem goes away. . . at least, it did for me   ;-)
    
        				-rob
    	                                    

    There is not a lot of treatment available for impotence, and what
    there is doesn't always work.
    
    There are shots, implants, and a sort of a pump that I'm aware of,
    all of which have draw backs. 
    
    I think there was a note on this topic a while back in Mennotes.
    
    Bonnie

    
    yes, see also
    
    Mennotes:
    196 - impotency, the unspoken illness
    
    
    -Jody
    

    
    I'm not in my fifties, but I know EXACTLY where you are coming from.
    
    AND the good news is; it can be worked through.  Even to getting over
    that initial uncomfortable "embarrassing" stage.  After my divroce
    I had major discomfort (read head trips) with needing, but being
    scared to, go to bed with what for all intents and purposes is a
    stranger.
    
    However, when I met a man that the lust/interest factor out weighed
    my nervousness I decided to give it a go.  (After the blood test) we
    mutually decided to continue our relationship.  Let me tell you
    though, the man involved did everything to make it a satisfying
    experience, but after the second time, I found myself scurrying 
    to the library.
    
    I skimmed everything I could on premature ejaculation and impotence.
    There were a lot of good ideas that would be easy to try without
    making a big deal of it.  If you like I can try and remember some
    of them, just send me a mail message.  Some of the ideas where just
    to in depth for a new relationship.
    
    But what I found, that after several times of just working through
    it together, both being satisfied and making sure he understood
    that I WAS NOT disappointed.  The whole problem went away. For all
    his life, he's believed that he couldn't perform "properly" in bed.
    So he's tried to make up for it with an amazing degree of foreplay
    and care for his partner.  Now that we both are comfortable, and                              
    everything said by .12 is a factor, I have a thoughtful, caring lover.
    
    And I have to disagree with .1.  My grandparents were in their eighties
    and still having occasional sex.  I believe that we just have a
    lot more going on in our minds and lives to distract us.  With effort
    and patience most new sexual relationships can get off the ground (no pun
    intended).  Even when I was in college, the first several times was
    difficult for both partners regardless of their age.
                                       
    So try to relax and help them to relax.  And give it a couple of
    tries.  Assist them and don't be afraid to discuss it.  But mostly
    make sure you both are satisfied.  What's the point if you don't
    have fun and enjoy yourself.  Just don't give up!

    
    The following reply is entered for a member who prefers to remain
    anonymous.
    
    
    Bonnie J
    
    _______________________________________________________________
    
A few comments from a long-time (~10 yr.) previously read-only follower of this
notes file.

I am a 45 year-old male who has been married for 24 years, and who has 
experienced a few occasional episodes of inability to achieve erection when 
I wanted. Not long ago, I did some research on this topic for a friend
whose husband was having this problem for a bit.

There are a couple of categories of impotence. One type is transient or 
situational, often due to stress or fatigue or fear of failure. This type is
treatable.

The comments made in .13 that suggest little can be done for it may be true
when there is an organic basis or disease causing the problem, but it 
is definitely not true of the transient variety.

There is an old saying that most men can identify with which says:
"Frustration is realizing for the first time that you cant do it a second time.
"Panic is realizing for the second time that you can't do it the first time."

A few weeks ago, I heard a bit on the radio that doctors have discovered
that in men where there is a significant buildup of deposits in their
arteries, that there may be insufficient blood pressure in the penis
to achieve an erection. It went on to say that impotence can be the
first physical symptom of arterial occlusion. It really made me wonder
if the well known side effect (impotence) of many blood pressure medications
was due to the medication itself, or whether it was due to reducing the blood
pressure of someone with just enough blood pressure before taking medication
to overcome the clogged arteries.

Another interesting cause that I found listed when doing research for my friend,
from the Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy was "spectatoring". - Being
mentally detached and preoccupied with the technical aspects when making
love may result in inability to achieve an erection.

A year ago, I was overweight and had developed high blood pressure. My doctor
told me that if it (my b.p.) was still up 12 weeks later, he wanted to
consider putting me on medication. Knowing some of the side effects, I chose
to lose weight and began a regular exercise program. not only did I lose
30 lbs and have my blood pressure drop 30 points but found that my erections
were better and more frequent than before.

To the original author, I would suggest that she ask if this is a periodic
or a continuous problem. If it is only periodic or situational, it is very
likely that it can be resolved, as they get to know each other more intimately.
It is quite common for a man to have some difficulty with erection the first
time they attempt to make love with a given partner. It has happened twice
(40% of the time) for me. It is especially likely (in my experience)
if the sexual encounter isn't quite what the man expected - i.e. a more 
passive partner than expected.

Just one man's observations.

b

This doesn't particularly help the basenoter, but if you are dealing with
someone who is having problems getting and maintaining an erection, first
check for physical causes (have him see his doctor). If there are no
physical causes, then the success rate is actually quite good with a good
sex therapist.

It's an extremely common problem - I've had "performance anxiety" before, and
as long as you don't get caught in a vicious cycle, it's no real problem.
Unfortunately for a man who's never had ANY kind of sexual problem before it
can be a really devastating blow. This leads to even more anxiety next time,
which causes problems, and the cycle begins.

	-- Charles

    Ya'll know the sure way to tell whether it's a physical problem, right?
    
    in case you don't...
    
    before you go to sleep at night, take a string of stamps (ie: still
    attached to eachother) and wrap it around your penis.  If in the
    morning the stamps are broken apart, then you had an erection at night,
    so you are *physically* capable of having an erection.  If they
    *aren't* broken, it's time to look in to physical problems.  (As in; go
    to a doctor.  They won't laugh at you, they hear the same complaint
    dozens of times a week.)
    
    Men who are capable of erection generally become erect during their
    sleep several times a night.
    
    And as was pointed out earlier, there is a high rate of success in
    being able to have future erections if your problem is not physical. 
    And, contrary to previous entries, there is also a good rate in the
    case of physical problems.
    
    D!

    The following is from a noter who would prefer to remain anonymous.

    						Ann B.
    						co-moderator
    ========================================================================

	Reading through the replies to the basenote gives me some new hope,
	although recently, through counselling and some brief medical help,
	I've made attempts to get my life on track.  I've waited for a few
	days, watching the replies, but with difficulty, felt compelled to
	reply, as now I'm beginning to be able to talk about these things.

	So very briefly, you'll see from the paragraphs below, how 
	extremely powerful these problems can be, especially to the
	uneducated and inexperienced.

	I'm male, currently married, with 3 children.  Basically, I've let
	premature ejaculation wipe out the emotional side of my life for
	the past .... well as long as I can remember.  I've only been
	involved with the one partner, but never tackled the problem;
	until now.

	The "cycle" mentioned in the replies to the basenote, not only 
	becomes strong, but guides and shapes, many areas of life, in 
	this case, to the point of marriage breakdown.  I'll backup 
	those suggestions of getting counselling and medical help, 
	early on discovery of the problem.  NO, it won't go away on its 
	own.  Eventually your partner will say the agro isn't worth it.

	From the basenote: How would you expect to be treated?

	Well, with care and love, but most of all understanding and the
	will to at least help and guide, in an attempt to try to solve 
	the problems.  What I've been through over the past years, although
	I should have tackled the problem a long time ago, statements from 
	one's partner, like "it's your problem, you solve it", do not 
	help a great deal.

    
    sex and erections are superfluous and unecessary..
    
    play backgammon instead.
    

    re .20, it's probably more difficult to find people who can play
    backgammon than it is men who can get erections.
    
    Also, nobody's ever asked me to play backgammon.
    

    re: -1
    :-) :-) :-) !!!!
    
    (I don't know how to indicate laughter with these stupid smiley
    faces but that's what I meant.)

    Re: =wn= V3, 1066.21:
    
    > Also, nobody's ever asked me to play backgammon.
    
    Care to drop by for a game sometime, then? 8-) 8-) 8-)
    
    Take care,
    
    --jim