Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    I'd like to follow up on that basenoter's question with a question:
    
    Is it more the fantasy or the science fiction that seems to be attracting 
    more women these days? I agree there seems to be an up-swing in SF 
    participation/readership among women, and am also curious as to why?
    

    Lots of  sub-genres, my impression is that the 'fantasy' tends to 
    draw more women, the 'hard' SF tends to draw more men. (Don't hit 
    me Ann, I know there are lots of exceptions too.)
    
    Favorite author - Poul (sic) Anderson

    
    more SF is being written with strong female characters.  That's what
    attracts me more to it.  And more SF/fantasy is being written that
    takes energy and intelligence to read - they don't give all the pieces
    of the plot to you you must winnow them out for yourself.  I enjoy Guy
    Gavriel Kay, Ann McCaffery, Louise L? Cooper, Jennifer Roberson, Harry
    Harrison, Robert Heinlein, Orson Scott Card, Kate Forrester.....
    
    etc.
    
    -Jody
    

    
    see also:
    
    womannotes-V1
    391 - feminist science fiction and fantasy
    
    SF
    805 - a galaxy of females
    819 - female sci-fi
    
    
    -Jody
    

    One of my favourite authors is Greg Bear. I _really_ liked his
    character of Patricia in the book "Eon". She was not strong, as such,
    but very realistic and I felt I could relate to her.
    
    At the moment I'm reading Anne Rice's "The Vampire Lestat" on the
    recommendation of 'gail and others. I don't know if anyone will agree,
    but I find Lestat's mother *extremely* strong. (But that's beside the
    point!)
    
    Another book with an admirable female character, which was both science
    fiction _and_ fantasy, was Brian Aldiss' "Heliconia Summer" (part of
    his "Helliconia" trilogy). The character I'm thinking of was a queen,
    whose husband was divorcing her, so that he could marry someone else
    for political reasons. She's what I would call a graceful character,
    almost enviably so.
    
    Anyway, _I_ like SF/fantasy... for escapism (cliche, I know!) and
    relaxation. Greg Bear's books I like because I'm just so amazed at the
    man's incredible imagination! I like Terry Pratchett, Harry Harrison,
    Douglas Adams for hilarity!! (I like the laurels especially)
    
    Alice T.
    Helliconia

   I have been attracted to SF in all forms for the alternate realities
   that many presented rather than the distored versions of current.
   The technology was secondary to the interactions in society.  Needless
   to say I read for escapest reasons it gave me a place where the current
   realities are not questioned as they would be in society as we accept
   it now.  My reading list included all the classics and I rarely pass
   anything up except the most obvious pulp.  I will admit that Asimov is
   a favorite as he brought me to the association of psychology and 
   programming, you have to read The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress to
   appreciate that.  He was amoung the first to have his characters 
   interacting with society as outcasts/members.  There have been more
   and better since but I read his first and the association sticks after
   twenty plus years.

   Allison

Disclaimer:  This is *my* opinion, and your mileage may vary.

One great advantage science fiction has over bestseller fiction is its
ability to make serious social commentary without appearing to preach.
If a bestseller author wrote a book that illustrated in no uncertain
terms the dangers of humanity's "need" to propagate without restraint,
that author wouldn't have a best-selling book.  Critics might like it,
but the general readership wouldn't buy it because they would rather not
be told things that hit so close to home.  In science fiction, these
ideas have free rein.  _The Mote in God's Eye_ by Larry Niven and
Jerry Pournelle (1973) is such a book.  It's a good read anyway, but
if the reader sees below the obvious exciting story, it becomes a
parable of tremendous power.  Niven and Pournelle wrote another book
called _Footfall_ that deals with the herd instinct - why people follow
blindly and what happens when they do.

-d

    re .6:  "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" was written by Robert A.
            Heinlein, not Isaac Asimov.
    
    					andrew

    
    Yes, I did a 6-term project in college on science fiction and its uses
    of various devices (time dislocation, distance, difference
    races/creatures, etc.) as forms of cognitive estrangement.  It's a
    vital way to communicate messages to us, now, in a way that is not only
    entertaining, but our regular "filtering" to these messages won't get
    in the way because we do not perceive the "moral of the story" until
    we're finished.  It plants the seed, and we cogitate over time.
    
    For instance, 2001 by Arthur C. Clarke tells us of the dangers of
    too much technology controlling our lives.  Ursula K LeGuin's "Left
    hand of Darkness" handles gender/race difference issues.  Stanislaw
    Lem's "Solaris" undertakes the philosophical concept that there are
    some things we simply cannot *know*.  Alien is alien is alien, in that
    case.  Although often the alien-ness is merely anthropomorphized by the
    author to present facets of ourselves or our culture we may not
    otherwise readily see or "hear" clearly, due to our own internal static
    and our preconceptions.
    
    -Jody
    

    I like SF because is challenges our most basic assumptions.  When
    stories are constrained by reality, it's hard to attack fundamental
    principles.
    
    for instance, if you set a book in current society, then it is hard to
    explore the issue of how much of "human nature" is really society
    based.  If you postulate an entirely different society, then you can
    explore which traits exist through all societies and which are
    societally dependent.
    
    My favorite sort of science fiction is that which postulates societies
    vastly different from our own, that make sense given the physical
    make-up of the people in the society, which in turn must make sense
    given the environmental constraints of their environment.  For
    instance, what sort of race would evolve on a planet with no water, and
    how would their societies differ from ours?  What about a race with no
    individual consciousness but instead a group conciousness?  The more
    conhesive and logical the society and people, the more i like the
    story.
    
    Good examples are Dune, Left Hand of Darkness and The Mote in God's
    Eye.
    
    These days it is hard to seperate SF from fantasy. I don't believe the
    categories are distinct, but rather something of a spectrum.  On one
    end you have classic medeivel fantasies, with dragons and knights and
    sorcerers, and on the other side you have classic "sf-with-rivets" as
    one friend describes it, like Niven or early Clarke.  But most recent
    SF has elements of both - it isn't strictly a story about technology of
    the future (classif sf-with-rivets) nor is it a totally unexplained
    non-scientific acceptance of magic (classic fantasy.)  Some books mix
    them quite well, such as On_A_Pale_Horse.  I like the term "science
    fantasy".
    
    D!

    
    I particularly enjoy the "what-if" projections of science fiction and
    fantasy which extend current trends in society into the future.  In
    fact, one of the genres I most enjoy is cyberpunk, which is a logical
    extension of the technological development society is undergoing.  
    
    I not only enjoy the wordworks of the cyberpunk authors (using a
    shocking juxtaposition of unexpected descriptives to denote what it's
    like to be within a computer, or working with one, and creating a whole
    new *sense* or sensory experience related to this), but I enjoy their
    creativity, the way they can create new and unexpected plot twists by
    engendering a whole new series of possibilities and realities.
    
    Yes, science fiction and fantasy are escapist, but by presenting the
    potential of today brought to its logically beautiful or horrendous
    fruition, with the utopias and dystopias, we can think seriously about
    now and at the same time realize what our true value systems are, and
    become aware of what potentials we would LIKE to see in the future.
    
    -Jody
    

    
    Scifi/Fantasy favorites:
    
    Asimov's foundation series (until he tied it back to the 'robots'
    series)
    
    Marion Zimmer Bradley - ALL of her books
    
    Robert Jordan -The Eye of the World (can't wait for #2!)  
    
    Lucifer's Hammer (I THINK by Poul Anderson and Silverburg??)
    
    Childhood's End by Arthur Clark 
    
    CatMagic by Whitley Streiber
    
    
    Scifi takes human situations and explores them in ways that regular
    life could never do.  They're parables without preaching. 
    
    And, I admit, I'm in awe of the story-telling abilities of my favorite
    authors.  I'd like to write like that.
    
    Jamd

    Naturally, there's a conference devoted to Science Fiction (and
    Fantasy).  It's located at NOTED::SF. (KP7, etc.)
    
    					andrew

    >Lucifer's Hammer (I THINK by Poul Anderson and Silverburg??)
    
    Larry Niven and Poul Anderson, I believe.
    
    ----
    
    I'll also second what others have said about SF being able to present
    "morals" without being too threatening, because it isn't really about
    "us" (until you think about it carefully.)
    
    One of *the* best works I have ever seen address that issue is "Venus
    Plus X" by T. Sturgeon.  It's wonderful because there is a character in
    it who represents "our" viewpoint, meaning that of current American
    society.  He is presented with a seemingly perfect but extremely alien
    culture and questioned about his reaction to it.  Because it is so
    alien, he is able to by-pass his knee-jerk biases.  The incredibly
    twist at the end really makes us (as identifying with this character)
    question our *own* knee-jerk biases.  (It also addresses gender issues
    from a totally different standpoint than I have ever seen any other
    book do, so it might be of interest to people in this file.)
    
    Star Trek was on of the first shows on TV to have an inter-racial team
    working together portrayed.  It also showed the first inter-racial
    (well, inter-species) kiss.  I think the only reason they could get
    away with that in the 60's was by being "science fiction" people were a
    lot more tolerant of "deviances", since it didn't reflect on them.
    
    D!

    English teachers typically despise SF, because they think it is all
    pulp with no literary or societal value.  We who read SF know that this
    couldn't be further from the truth.  I understood this as early as 9th
    grade, so I took on the mission of demonstrating to my high school
    English teachers that SF had worth.
    
    Every year we had to do one really big literary research paper.  Every
    year I chose a science fiction book, and a classic theme to explore,
    much to the shock of my teachers.  Invariably they were hesitant to let
    me do the paper on that book, but I would present a rough outline of
    what I planned to do with it, and they *had* to let me.
    
    One year I did "[hu]man's fear of technology and progress" through
    Asimov's robot series/short stories.  One year I did a paper on the
    concept of the "noble savage" using Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World." 
    One year I used Clarke's "2001" (but I can't remember what my theme was
    that year.)  I never got to do the other ones I had planned, including
    exploring the concept of "human metamorphosis through spiritual
    transcendence" using Clarke's "Childhood's End", exploring gender roles
    in society using "The Left Hand of Darkness" (Ursula K. LeGuin) and
    alternate family structures in society using the colleceted works of
    Heinlein, esp. "Time Enough for Love" and the short stories in "The
    Past Through Tomorrow".
    
    D!

    Nope, the epic tale of the Hamner-Brown comet strike is the standard
    Niven&Pournelle team effort.
    
    I'd also like to mention David Brin and Lois McMasters Bujold.  (Her
    _The_Vor_Game_ won the Hugo this year.  Someone will have to produce
    something terrific to beat out her _Barrayar_ next year.)
    
    						Ann B.

    (I admit it - I liked writing papers in high school!  Should this go in
    "true confessions"?  My most exciting moment, academically speaking,
    was when my Junior year English teacher was so impressed with my
    analysis of Freud's personality types using Shakespeare's Julius Ceasar
    that she Xeroxed it and handed it out to the rest of the class.)
    
    D!

    
    I got a kick out of that in college, D!, when the teacher, after giving
    us an essay exam, would hand out "examples" of what a good essay would
    be.  Sans names, of course.  
    
    One of the problems I currently have with science-fiction/fantasy is
    that women are often stereotyped much the same way as they are in
    romance novels.  I admit, I have a read a variety of these books, and
    they often have some literary redeeming features, but the repetition of
    the "woman as victim" and "woman as chattel" really grates on me after
    a time.  Marion Zimmer Bradley was editor for a series of books called
    "Sword and Sorceress" (I think she did that one, else she did the
    "Amazons!" series), and these bring forth new authors (female and male)
    with strong female protagonists who are NOT masculine by action, but
    are certainly not the fluffernutter I have so often seen in earlier SF
    pulp.  These women can think for themselves, and I think it's
    intriguing and exciting that, very much like Thelma and Louise, they
    often empathize with their opposition, sometimes to the point of
    capitulating or working out some sort of truce, but often only to the
    point of seeing the opposition's side after the blood has been shed and
    the battle is over.
    
    -Jody
    

    Oh yes, how could I forget Brin!  He was the other example I was trying
    (futiley) to think of as a good example of excellent developments of
    societies that make sense.  (What was the name of the emphathic race
    that was so human-like in Startide Rising?)
    
    For she *numbers* of races (is it race or species???) exlpored in a
    reasonable way, nothing beats the Well World series by Jack Chalker. 
    (Though I admit,he kind of overuses the "let's change bodies onto
    another world" theme JUST A TAD!)
    
    D!

    Yeah, Jody, lack of strong female protagonists used to really bother
    me; fortunately these days there are more and more strong female
    characters!  Sometimes I get very frustrated with the classics (Asimov,
    Heinlein, Clarke, Niven, Clement, etc) by their lack of female
    protagonists.
    
    Take Heinlein - many cite books like "Friday" as an example of a strong
    female protagonist, but I couldn't empathize with her as a woman at
    all.  Rather than being a strong human female, she was a very male
    superhuman character.
    
    For strong female characters who are really *female*, try Octavia
    Butler.  yeah, yeah!  (Her main protagonists are almost always
    half Black women.)
    
    D!

   RE: .8  Andrew

   I know that silly goose.  I noticed the error about one tick after
   lifting my finger from the return key.  It was 25 years ago that I
   read them, sheesh braindeath.  The problem is I don't remember the
   title of the Asimov story I meant, I remember is whas from one of
   his early Robot collections.  

   My SF collection before I moved the first time was 10 (TEN) Xerox
   paper boxes full, about half of which were hard cover, the local
   library had a field day when I carried them in.  

   Allison

                               

    Yes.  There were those long years when the only strong women were
    Trigger Argee (James H. Schmidt) and Jirel of Joiry (C.L. Moore).
    
    						Ann B.

    What's the attraction? For me, it's the belief that there *will* be
    a future. Since I could remember, I've lived with the idea that it
    would take just two a**holes to push the buttons and effectively end
    the world as I know it. That thought doesn't quite dominate my 'sense
    of life' but I've never been able to dismiss it, either. My early
    exposure to SF, most especially 'Star Trek' back in '66, gave me
    a sense that, hey, maybe there _will_ be a future, maybe there _is_
    hope that we'll survive our stupidity. I've clung to that hope
    for years. 
    
    Aristotle pointed out that fiction was more important than history,
    because history showed what _is_, but fiction showed what _might be_
    and what _should be_. Science fiction most consistently lives up to
    that standard.
    
    Dana

yeah, Dana, I'm weird enough that, when I lived 1/4 mile downhill from the 
long-range tracking station, if I heard a sonic boom my first thought was...
and then a few seconds would pass, and I'd forget it.  Silly, I know; there
would be no audible warning.

Me, I like Darkover.  MZB's Darkover books are *almost* all good.  (Didn't like
_Heirs_of_Hammerfell_ much.)  D!, I really think you should try _Thendara_House_
before you give up on her altogether.

Sara

    re: Thendara_House...
    
    alright, twist my arm, I'll read it!  :-)  
    
    *After* Mists_Of_Avalon, though.
    
    D!

oh, Mists_of_Avalon is wonderful.  For a different perspective read
Once_And_Future_King too, either before or after Mists.  Then, see the Disney
cartoon!  :-)

    Happy, happy, happy camper am I to see this topic!  :-)
    
    I adore fantasy!  I always travel with a book, 'cause you never know
    when you'll get stuck in the line from Acheron at the bank, etc.
    
    I didn't mind the *lack* of strong female characters in the old days,
    but I mightily dislike the portrayal of all females as helpless.  
    
    I like Jennifer Roberson, Chris Claremont (relatively new), Mercedes
    Lackey (a tad childish, but I like it).  And a veritable host of other
    authors that I will think of as soon as I hit control z.  ;^)
    
    My collection is huge!  I just packed them all up for the eventual
    move and ended up with  about 10 Xerox boxes of paperbacks and 8
    boxes of hard backs.  Working in a book store tends to do that to ya.
    
    And now it's gonna get worse with me going back.  No more clothes for
    the next 2 years...it'll all be new books!  ;^)
    
    I really like what MZB has done with Sword and Sorceress.  She also
    tries to stay clear of the, "I was raped so now I'm out for revenge"
    type of stories you saw almost exclusively with female heroines.
    
    I like Tanith Lee too.
    
    
                                      L.J.
    
    p.s.  Jessica Amanda Salmonson did the Amazons series (only 2 books)

    HUmm, didn't know that Chris Claremont was publishing a lot of Science
    fiction these days.  Good for him.  But then, sigh, he's not doing Xmen
    anymore.  He's a good writer, intersting thinker.
    
    Is it more of his healer stories?
    
      Margaret

L.J., in one of the Darkover anthologies MZB mentions (paraphrasing now) that 
she gets more Renunciate stories than any other type, and that while that is 
understandable in some ways, most of the stories are both not that good, and
VERY grim reading.

    I always have two or three Science Fiction and/or Fantasy books
    in my backpack... right now I am really enjoying "The Eye of
    the World" by Robert Jordan, I have the sequel too, "The  Great
    Hunt".  I have so many favorite authors... Diana(e?) Paxson,
    *Barbara Hambly*, Ursula LeGuin, Anne McCaffney (sp), Louise
    Cooper, there are so many more... I *love* the DragonLance
    books and read them over and over... they have a new series
    out but I am so behind in my reading I just can't justify
    buying more books... who wrote "The Wandering Fire"?  I
    think Jody mentioned the name, I really enjoyed those
    books too.  I always wanted to be a warrior %-)/swordswoman.
    
    with love,
    cheyenne
    
    

    
    The Wandering Fire is one of the three books in the Fionavar Tapestry
    series by Guy Gavriel Kay.  Intensely awesome books!
    
    -Jody
    

    YEAH!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Jody!  I wanna go home and curl up with
    a book now 8-).  
    
    with love,
    cheyenne

	I find that I read SF and Fantasy for different reasons at 
	different times, including most of the reasons already mentioned.

	Mainly, I think I like it for the mental exercise of looking
	at different societies/situations from different angles.  Also, of 
	course,  I enjoy finding holes (or trying to) in the 
	author's technology/society.

	I've recently noticed that I tend to cycle from hard SF to Fantasy 
	and back again.  Currently I'm on a hard SF kick, reading Man-Kzin 
	wars.



	Re: Claremont

	He's written for the Wild Cards series, and he's got at least one 
	novel out, although names/titles elude me at the moment.



	*A*

I can't really remember a time when I did not enjoy "hard core" SF.  It's
terrific to see all the intelligence about SF in these replies, and, I
must admit, SF's dealing with issues is attractive.

Mostly, though, I have one fairly simple reason for reading SF.   

I completely admire imagination...and, I have truly been blown away by the
quality of imagination/the author's minds in the stories I've read.  I have
such respect for an author's ability to dream entire technologies, whole 
universes, etc. - and, to throw in a few surprises at the same time.  

Just a delight...

I find Arthur C. Clarke an absolute technical genius - his diagrams are
just so impressive (you know, like NASA has thanked him for a few of his
designs and all that)!  I very much like the heads of Marion Zimmer
Bradley (Firebrand was great), Ursula LeGuin, and Assimov...I have read
many, many other authors and liked much of the work.

I mostly do not tend toward fantasy - the only ones I have really liked
were Firebrand and the Tolkien trilogy.

Barb

    Stupid machine ate my reply!  HARUMPH!
    
    Chris Claremont has 2 novels out...one of which is called grounded and
    I can't remember the other title.
    
    I love Dragonlance too.  Weis and Hickman make a great team.
    
    I will also openly admit to loving a Conan novel...hack, slash, burn,
    tear, rip, sunder.....chaos...chaos.  Gotta love it!  ;^)
    
    
    
                                   L.J.

    did I put this in True Confessions once?  I love Edgar Rice Burroughs.
    Esp the Martian series, but also Tarzan, and even Pellucidar and the
    Venutian one (forget his name for that).  I sort of feel like every
    house should have its copy of _Jungle_Tales_of_Tarzan_.  And... yes...
    I even like even those dumb Conan books.  I have one or two laying about
    somewhere.
    
    I *do* feel a bit guilty about this, kind of like how some people must
    feel about porn.  I cannot defend the horrid racism and sexism in
    these books.  They are written in a, well, a lurid style.  They are not
    good.  I can't take them seriously.  I like them anyway.

Yeah, his stuff is great -- I particularly like Thuvia, Maid of Mars.
Ah, the hurtling moons of Barsoom...!  Escapism at its best.

Burroughs also wrote a non-SF romance novel titled _The Mad King_ that
is basically a pastiche of Anthony Hope's _The Prisoner of Zenda_ with
the mistaken identities and everything.  Lovely book, long out of print,
I have a cherished falling-apart paperback.

Now back to the topic at hand...

-d

I *love* space opera. I've been reading SF since the early 60's when practically
*all* the lead characters were white males. Being a horse riding tomboy anyway
I just ignored that and imagined myself in the stories. I'm happier now that
we have women to read about. Especially since sex has made it into SF. 

MZB was my fav for years until LMB showed up. I prefer stories where the
technology is just taken for granted. Give me character development and a plot.
I burn out fast on typical male "hard SF". Who cares how a Bussard ram jet
works, just take me to the stars and be quick about it. 

One fall out of this was that when the first man walked on the moon it seemed
like an anti-climax. I had been living all over the galaxy for years. 

And hey, I admit it, the depiction of telepath sex in Joan D'Vinge's CATSPAW
was a total turn on. I've wanted to experience it ever since. liesl

    liesl
    
    I did the same thing in re imagining my self in the stories. :-)
    
    I'm also a fan of MZB and LMB! I *love* the stories set in her
    universe.
    
    Bonnie
    
    p.s I also like Heinlein (early stuff) Niven, Pournelle, Azimov,
    Bova, Brin, etc etc

I've been a Science Fiction reader for years -- and I generally do 
appreciate the Science Fiction more than the fantasy...primarily because 
the fantasy tends towards the "princes in distress requires big
strong hero and his adorable elve companions to rescue her" plots.  In my
opinion, that's just another variation of "bodice ripper".   I have always
appreciated Science Fiction that attempts to re-define social structures/
interactions or to explore possible alien cultures and their effects on the
humans who encounter them...and the effect our culture would have on 
intelligent alien life.  My list of "preferred" authors is actually quite
long - there are quite a few competent writers running around in the
genre now - but, I can always depend on a few old regulars for a good
and challenging read:

	1) Isaac Asimov - he is a scientist and his science holds together
	   pretty well.  I've enjoyed his ruminations on the advent of
	   android/robotic creations and the potential for havoc their
	   arrival may portend.  In his heart of hearts, old Isaac is a
	   prude, a gently chauvinistic man - just a little protective,
	   and an optimist on the human condition.  But, whether I agree
	   with him or not, he delivers IDEAS in capital letters.

	2) Frank Herbert - the Dune series was a tour de force in any
	   genre.  He created a totally alien culture comprised of
	   vaguely Moslem, evangelical Christianity, and feud overtones.
	   The very fact that he could make the worlds he created SO
	   real far overrides whether I, as the reader, share his views
	   of what is desirable or inevitable in the human condition.
	   He also wrote some wonderfully strong/terrifying/mean/kind
	   and REAL women into his DUNE series.

	3) Harlan Ellison - yes, I am a fan of the 'tiny terrorist' of
	   Science Fiction.  Sometimes he makes me so mad I am ready to
	   march down to his digs in s. california and slap him around...
	   but he also makes me think, he makes me SEE things from
	   different prospectives...and he makes me laugh.  The fact
	   that his current wife cannot trust him to go 3 floors in an
	   elevator with a 20 year old blond and keep his pants on is
	   HER problem, not mine.

	4) Kim Stanley Robinson - not, as popularly believed, a woman, but
	   a man...and, of the "new crop" of writers out there, one of
	   the best character developers that we have (IMO, of course, as
	   books are like food - we all have our favorite flavors).  I
	   have always enjoyed his books although Kim uses less SCIENCE
	   in his books than most - his are books that explore the human
	   side of the equation, first, last, and foremost.  I particularly
	   like his ruminations on the evolution of music and musical
	   instruments....fascinating, and "one of a kind", stuff.

	5) Bear, Delany, Arthur C. Clark, James Tiptree, Jr. (sadly deceased
	   in recent years), etc. to many to mention...

I am like a little kid in that I want to be the first person to meet an 
alien life form and make contact....bring on the bug-people from FLARGON!

			D

    
    Oh boy!! SF!!!
    
    Well, I cut my teeth on the Tom Swift series, both Sr. and Jr., when 
    I discovered them in our town library. I had gone through most of the
    books in the children's section when I found them in the "boys" section
    of the library (we're talking *many* years ago!!).  In fact, the
    librarian gave me a funny look when I brought them to the desk to check
    out, "Are you *sure* you want to read *these* books???"  "Yes", I said
    as I plopped the pile of six books on the desk, the limit we could take
    out at one time, usually gone through in less than a week!!  That was
    the start for me, and as bad as they were, they were enough to hook me
    and pull me into the genre even farther.  
    
    	From there I discovered Heinlein's juvenile series, Asimov's short
    stories and anything else that was available in both the town library
    and the school library.  Soon after that, along came Star Trek on TV
    bringing SF into my living room each week!!  Such imagination!  Such
    forsight!  Such stimulation for the brain!  My mother of course was
    puzzled why I would read such "trash".  I informed her that if she 
    could read her "historical romances" (or as I refer to them as: "The
    Sword, the Flame, and the Passion; mix or match!) and her slasher 
    horror novels, then I could read what I darned well wanted to!  Was I
    the only child who got yelled at for reading *too much*????
    
    	Besides Asimov and Heinlein, I like MZB, Robert Asprin (the Myth
    series--hysterical reading!!, even if you don't like Fantasy!),
    Herbert, LeGuin, et all.  And most of the Star Trek books, pure 
    escapism!!  I just read the Original "Stranger in a Strange Land" put
    out by Heinlein's widow earlier this year.  It puts back in about
    60,000 words that the editors cut out because it was *too*
    controversial, for that time period anyway!!  It's an interesting read
    even if you've read the edited version.  I had read "Stranger" more 
    than 15 times before this last time, and really noticed a different
    flavor to the book.  What *really* jumped out at me was his casual
    reference to Lesbianism, the edited version *hinted* at it but seeing
    it in this version really tied things together in the story.  You
    should realize that the book was originally published in *1961*, so
    that any "devient" behavior -blatently- referred to was edited out.
    But, provacative as the book was, it was too good to *not* get
    published.  Even in it's edited state, the book was enough of an impact
    to stir up an entire generation.
    
    	My SF reading got me an "A" in -history- class in high school!  The
    teacher was looking for papers to explain the root causes for WWII; I 
    knew that WWI was one of the main causes for WWII but couldn't quite
    figure out the best way to put it to paper.  Then, I thought of a "what
    if" scenario and took it from there!  Basically I wrote a SF short
    story of what would have happened to the world if Napoleon had *won*
    and conquered all of Europe.  The peoples under his rule would have
    revolted about the time of WWI and probably succeeded in breaking away
    from France.  So the "new" countries would have been too busy to get 
    involved in a war among themselves, thereby eliminating WWI and
    consequently, WWII.  The teacher *loved* it, gave me an "A" and read it
    to the class--such a wonderful teacher!!
    
    	I also lean toward "hard" SF but occassionally will foray into
    fantasy.  I enjoy characterization more than technical perfection
    but the technology that is in the story needs to "feel" real.
    I have Three Six Foot bookcases, full of books, most of them SF!  I 
    think that we would all recognize each other's houses (on the inside!),
    and could probably find the bookshelves by radar!!  Gee, I wonder why 
    SF readers are so passionate about the books they read?!?!
    
    	I have a suggestion for ??? (caution: braindead alert!!) who is 
    going off to manage a bookstore.  When #3 in a series of SF/Fantasy
    books comes out...please, Please, Please, order a few sets of #1 and #2
    of that series.  Thanks, it will save a lot of time and hair pulling 
    from the SF community!!!  :-)
    
    Best Reading to All,
    
    Debbi

    	My dad got me hooked on SF pretty early on.  I think my
    brother and some friends got me into the Fantasy stuff later on.
    As I kid, I was a bookworm and would devour just about anything.
    Once the romances were all the same, and I'd gone beyond all the
    kids books, there was a whole world of different things to read in
    SF.

    	I love the alternate cultures and worlds, the different
    species, the different social situations..sometimes you get so
    grounded in today's reality, it's nice to try to imagine another
    reality.

    	BTW Alice, if you like "The Vampire Lestat", just wait till
    you get to "Queen of the Damned"!  I couldn't put it down the past
    couple days (and just finished it a few hours ago, when I should
    have been packing!! :^) )!

    	amy

    Who here likes Terry Pratchett?
    
    Alice T.

    
    Who's LMB?  ( a new author?!!, she says with anticipation!!!)
    
    Terry Pratchett is great!   What fun!
    
    Jamd

    Lois McMaster Bujold.
    
    BJ

    RE.44
    
        When I ran my other store I *always* had the other books in the
    trilogy read for sale.  Even for stand alones I brought in more of
    the authors earlier works.
    
        One day I'm going to grow up and have my own science fiction store!
    
    
    
                                      L.J.  ;^)

    Good for you!
    
    Go for it!
    
    Alice T.

    re .18
    
    Amazing.  The same thing happened to my wife.  She wrote a paper for
    a college English class analyzing Richard III's personality problems,
    and the prof tried to get her to switch to an English major.  (She
    ended up a psychologist though.)
    
    Her current wish is to find a biography of Ludwig II of Bavaria.
    She thinks he would be an interesting character to analyze.  If
    anybody knows of such a book (in English if at all possible), please
    let me know about it.

    
    I have a biography of Ludwig at home called "The Dream King".  It's
    a trade paperback divided pretty equally between text and photos of 
    his various building projects.
    
    Most biographies of Wagner will also have a fair amount of information
    on Ludwig as well.
    
    clb
    

    Ahhh, SF and Fantasy.  (OK, OK, I'll try to keep it short)
    I hate underdevelopment of any character, female or male.  I despise
    technical inaccuracy, and have discarded many a book for such crimes
    against nature.  Beyond that, I'm an eclectic reader.
    
    Favorite authors include Andre Norton who got me hooked on SF.  She is
    still writing (I think) or at least I'm still reading new things she
    wrote 8-).  Pournelle, Niven, MZB, Tolkien, Piers Anthony and
    most of all, my most favoratie author of everything from hard SF to
    Fantasy to an historical bodice ripper - Orson Scott Card (can that man
    right, or what?).

I love it all....escapism really :-)

Novels, short stories, movies, the lot !

ps...why did they cut the Kyle Reese dream scene from Terminator 2 ??????????

...s*ds :-(

	ILIW I've just finished reading Robert Jorden's new book,
			"The Dragon Reborn"

	IHIW I now have to wait another 1-2 yrs for the next one.


						/Brad

    /Brad,
    
    I'm waiting to read it!  My dad has it first then I get
    it.. I just finished "The Eye of the World" and "The
    Great Hunt" one after the other... and am chomping at the bit %-).
    
    I take it, it is a good as the others?
    
    with love,
    cheyenne

    
    /Brad - 
    
    It'a available!!??
    
    ILIW i "discover" a series in progress, and don't have to wait (very
    long) to read them.  I read the Eye of the world in March, The Graet
    Hunt in August, and it's looks like #3 is here.
    
    Was it as good as the others?!
    
    Jamd