| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 874.1 | counsellors don't place blame | TLE::DBANG::carroll | dyke about town | Wed Jun 12 1991 16:59 | 37 |
| Dear Anon:
Your name wouldn't be Michael Carroll, would it? If I didn't know better,
I would *swear* you were my father. He is in very much a similar situation
to yours, with his new wife and her two kids and his son (my brother).
Joanne sounds like the absolutely typical teenager. Ihaven't parented
a teenager (or anyone, for that matter) but my best advise would be, don't
worry about it, she'll grow out of it and she'll be out of the house soon
anyway. I know that is extremely unuseful. However, I feel teenagers are
supposed to be rebellious, although it is little comfort to you to know what
she is doing is normal. Sounds a lot like my step-sister Trina. And Eric
sounds a lot like my brother Daniel (who is also hyper-active.)
Basically, I have no words of wisdom, just wanted to tell you you aren't
alone, and these things can be worked out. (My Dad did it.)
Also...
> Vanessa has convinced me to seek counseling. I dread it.
> I know I'll be made out to be the oppressive ogre of the household.
No you won't. If you *are*, you have a bad therapist. A good therapist does
not attempt to place blame, but will instead work to achieve compromise and
understanding within the family. There are *no* villains in the family
game - everyone gets sucked into the cycle, and everyone is equally
responsible for breaking out of the cycle. That is what family counselling is
about - not placing blame, but allowing people to break out of the vicious
cycles the families can get into.
As a step-parent, you are definitely damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't.
A counsellor will understand that. It is difficult to have to live with a
teenager who percieves you as trying to take her father's place, and yet
not have any sort of parental control over her. I think counselling sounds
like a very good idea.
D!
|
| 874.2 | | SA1794::CHARBONND | | Wed Jun 12 1991 17:02 | 5 |
| re.0 last paragraph - it is you *as a family* that needs
counseling. *Not* you as an individual.
As a member of the family you have certain rights, which are
clearly not being respected by either your wife or her daughter.
|
| 874.3 | | FDCV07::HSCOTT | Lynn Hanley-Scott | Wed Jun 12 1991 17:04 | 10 |
| Dear Anon--
There is an excellent support group - Stepfamilies Assoc of America --
which might offer you some comfort and support. I can get you info for
central Mass., and point you to leads for other areas, if you are
interested. Just let me know through one of the mods.
It's helped me alot, in how I view myself as a stepparent....
and in what battles I'm willing to take on.
|
| 874.4 | | TALLIS::TORNELL | | Wed Jun 12 1991 17:25 | 51 |
| You say you seldom do things just to make Joanne happy. Why?
Do you perhaps have little interest in her? You're the adult - take
the lead. But I also agree with D! that she sounds pretty normal.
Don't all teenagers retreat to their rooms to live? I did. And every
one I ever knew then considered their rooms a special haven from
"them".
You say you didn't apply the concepts you'd learned at various counseling
sessions. Why not? Vanessa is certainly the pivotal character in
this, being your wife and their mother. Didn't she want to? Didn't you
two discuss the various concepts after the session(s) and make decisions
on how to apply them? Why not? Why not do it now?
I suspect the heart of the problem is not the kids, but a real lack of
communication between you and Vanessa. She and/or you are avoiding
something. What? Fear of losing each other? My guess is that if you
straighten things out with Vanessa, and that includes written down,
reasonable household rules that the children will follow whether Vanessa
is home or not, complete with the "payment" required for infractions,
things will calm down to a dull roar, the normal noise level for a
house with teenagers! Let the kids know up front about the list of
rules and their attendant penalties and then the responsibility for their
behavior will be on them and won't get all muddled in with your re-
lationship with Vanessa. By agreeing on things like, "If Joanne
entertains her boyfriend in her room with the door closed, she gets no
allowance", you put the responsibility on Joanne to monitor her own
behavior or pay the price, and that's where it belongs. You need to
come up with rule/penalty pairs that are realistic, representative of
what you want and motivating enough.
Then if/when an infraction occurs, you need only to calmly point to the
list and that's that. No screaming, no wailing, no ifs ands or buts.
Even better would be to draw up the list together with rule/penalty
pairs for everyone. You guys run out of soda, you relinquish the tv
for a night or something. They will feel a part of the household and
fairly treated if everyone has clearly communicated responsibilities.
It *could* even become an enjoyable little family game.
And then rethink doing things "just to make her happy". I suspect you
and Joane have a little dominance game going with you refusing to "be
manipulated" by her. You have to balance your rules with love and genuine
caring. All that adds up to a lot more attention being paid to those in
your household - a plus in itself.
Also, before you spend another dollar on yet more counseling, spend an
hour with Vanessa and *write down* what each of you hopes to gain from
it. That in itself may deflect the need for more counseling.
Good luck,
Sandy
|
| 874.5 | Discipline does wonders... | MR4DEC::MAHONEY | | Wed Jun 12 1991 17:53 | 62 |
| Teen-agers are not necesarily rebelious... they're rebelious only when
they're not happy or not understand certain situations in life... I
know that she must resent a step father, but what she needs most, right
now is a bit of discipline and rules within the house. I have two
daughters (25 and 23) and they had to comply with out rules... one of
them is to keep their ROOMS within my standards... that means fairly
neat. Of course they rebelled saying it was their room and they needed
their privacy, of course I said yes to that, but it happens that
"their" room was within MY house and I WAS PAYING the bills... I
respected their privacy, but they had to respect mine too, and that was
to have a standard type of cleanness and order throughout the house.
Telephone... if they need special phone let them have one line and let
her pay for it... with her own savings! let's see HOW MUCH time she
spends on the line if it COSTS savings to her.
Boyfriends... they ARE NOT, and WERE NOT allowed in dormitories as a
general rule! they are welcome in any living room within the house, are
invited in for dinner, etc, but they ARE NOT ALLOWED anywhere else,
that still goes up to this day... when we have parties I refuse to let
them drive back home late at night so I let them stay overnight in our
house - they sleep in the basement's pull out bed, or, when more than
one, in the family room couch -
My parents had those rules at home and were always respected. It gave
such good results that I have them at home and were never a problem,
but just the opposite, I never had any conflicts with either girl
because of that, rules were always clear and explained to them to show
them the benefits of it... even now, then either one is a bit late
returning home they always phone me to let me know... not because I
demand it, but to let me know why they'll be late so I don't worry
thinking they had an accident or whatever... (it is a sign of respect
and I feel very confortable with it). When we are late I also let them
know so they don't worry.
You're under a delicate situation, rather difficult, but when there are
rules, and are clearly explained and followed by all, the whole
situation gets a lot easier... your step daughter might not love you
and (she doesn't have to, either) but she MUST respect you, if she
cares just one bit for her mother... if her mother choose you to share
her life, she must respect it and give you YOUR place within the
family...
I don't know if this will be much use to you, because every household
is different, but I tell you, it did work great in ours. We've gone
through 27 years of marriage and quite a handful of overseas
relocations, which is no easy task with three teenagers... the three
kids enjoyed all those changes quite a lot, they are, at present time,
very grown-up, very social, with a great understanding of cultures and
quite a few years ahead of their peers in maturity...
I know that we brought them up with a few rules, but... oh boy were
they handy! I wish you lots of luck, you should have a honest talk
with your wife, if she took her daughter's upbringing into her own
hands she is the one to start clarifying roles and rules within the
house. Whatever she does you need her total support, and once you or
her, set some rules... you BOTH must stick by them... we must teach
with examples... remember the saying? "do as I say, not as I do"!
that doesn't work anymore....
Lots of luck and please, keep on trying.
|
| 874.6 | | TOMK::KRUPINSKI | C, where it started. | Wed Jun 12 1991 18:57 | 14 |
| A couple of times you referenced your own lack of self-discipline.
Without a parental example to follow, it is sometimes difficult
for a child to develop self-discipline, which appears to be at the
root of some of the faults you see in Joanne.
I disagree with the previous respondents - Joanne appears from
your description to be overly demanding. Of course, I am only
able to form an opinion from being given your side of the story.
Maybe you need to talk to Joanne. Listen to what she has to say.
Ask her to see things from your perspective. Especially about
your feelings that she does not respect you.
Tom_K
|
| 874.7 | | USWRSL::SHORTT_LA | Total Eclipse of the Heart | Wed Jun 12 1991 19:02 | 34 |
| Warning: This will not be a supportive response.
Get out while you can. If you've already tried certain counseling and
parenting classes and won't stick to them, what makes you think
counseling will be different?
If I were you (and I'm not) I'd cut my losses and get on with my life
and pursuit of happiness that we're all entitled to.
L.J.
|
| 874.8 | random thoughts... | GLITER::STHILAIRE | just for one day | Wed Jun 12 1991 19:19 | 47 |
| I agree with D! and the others who think that Joanne sounds like a
normal teenager. My daughter plays loud music, requests more junk
food, refuses to eat in the school cafeteria, retreats to her room,
etc, etc. She and I have had some rather severe, verbal, run-ins in
the past couple of years. But, we've also shared some really good
times, too.
My rules are not quite the same as yours. I do allow my daughter to
have both male and female friends in her room, with the door shut. I
respect her privacy and I respect her ability to make decisions, based
on discussions she and I have had regarding appropriate behavior.
(My idea of appropriate behavior probably differs from yours, but my
concern is that she comply with my standards.)
I think that the major problem in step-parenting is that step-parents
may not love their step-children in the same way that "real" parents
love their kids, and I don't really think that there's much that can be
done about it except for step-parents to try to be understanding. The
fact is that I can put up with a lot more from my daughter than I could
from anybody else because I love her and care more about her life and
her future than that of anybody else. She and I can have bad
arguments one day, only to be hugging and laughing the next, because we
love each other enough to forgive. She isn't ever just a spoiled,
bratty teenager to me. She's also still the baby, toddler and little
girl that I've loved for the past 17 yrs. We have a whole history
together that a few occasional arguments and self-centered behavior on
her part hasn't been able to destroy.
I know that I would not be as forgiving with other teenagers. In fact,
I lived with an ex-SO and his 2 teenage daughters for 2 1/2 yrs. and
most of the time I couldn't stand his girls. My honest feeling
was...they aren't my kids, I don't love them, they're a nuisance, we'd
be able to have a lot more fun if they weren't here!
I know that I would never have been able to live in a situation where
my daughter had to accept the authority of a step-father. I know that
I would go bezerk if a man other than her father tried to make her
comply with rules that I didn't agree with. At least I realize this
and never tried it.
I've discussed this with my ex-husband in the past and we've both
experienced similar feelings and situations. I think the hardest part
of forming new relationships after divorce is getting along with the
other person's kids.
Lorna
|
| 874.9 | pointer | LEZAH::BOBBITT | pools of quiet fire | Wed Jun 12 1991 19:40 | 6 |
| I think you might want to cross-post this in:
DLOACT::BLENDED_FAMILIES
-Jody
|
| 874.10 | | R2ME2::BENNISON | Victor L. Bennison DTN 381-2156 ZK2-3/R56 | Wed Jun 12 1991 19:52 | 12 |
| I'm with Lorna and D!. The kid sounds normal. And rebellion at that
age is the normal pulling away from our parents that all healthy humans
have to do at some point. Being a step-parent can't be easy. In
reading your note, the image that presented itself to me was that the
kids are okay, the adults have problems. I think you should get the
therapy, not because you're "screwed up", but because you aren't very
happy with your situation. Your wife may think that your getting
therapy is going to improve you so that she'll be happy, which is
likely to turn out not to be the case, but who cares? Go after your
own happiness. Go to EAP and talk to them. Get some recommendations
for a good therapist. Then go.
- Vick
|
| 874.11 | | CSC32::N_WALLACE | DECsupport Team CSC/CXO | Fri Jun 14 1991 12:16 | 20 |
| Your marriage is in very serious trouble. I would RUN, not walk to
the best marriage counselor I could afford (assuming you want save it).
I would agree with those who have said this is a problem with you and
Vanessa, and not the kids. The kids are doing exactly what you and
Vanessa are letting them get away with. For the most part, I think alot
of this behavior is normal for a teenager, but if there are things that
you and Vanessa don't like, then don't put up with that crap. Be a
leader, be consistant, and stand your ground. Parenting is tough work.
Check out ::PARENTING
::NON_CUSTODIAL_PARENTS
::BLENDED_FAMILIES
They deal with these issues all the time.
Good Luck,
Neil
|
| 874.13 | | R2ME2::BENNISON | Victor L. Bennison DTN 381-2156 ZK2-3/R56 | Fri Jun 14 1991 17:55 | 6 |
| All the visits are free. There can be an initial conference, three
scheduled counseling periods, and then a followup after you start
getting counseling outside the company.
- Vick
|
| 874.14 | Don't waste your time | TALLIS::TORNELL | | Mon Jun 17 1991 12:44 | 11 |
| Gee, I found EAP completely useless. I made an appointment, went in
there, paced back and forth and bared my soul to her. When I was done,
she said, "I think you need to talk to somebody". I said, "Well
that's what I'm here to do!" And that's when she said that they didn't
do any counseling at all. She said EAP's role was to determine *if*
a person needed to talk to someone, that they are merely a referral
service to outside counselors who will see you at standard rates.
Basically EAP told me what I already knew and said they could do nothing
further. A telephone book will take less of your time.
Sandy
|
| 874.15 | Maybe, maybe not. | ASDG::FOSTER | Calico Cat | Mon Jun 17 1991 13:05 | 6 |
|
EAP has been pretty good to me... but yes, they do refer if its more
than they are trained to handle. I guess I assumed that they were
better than a phone book because they knew where to refer you.
I wouldn't go to a phone book for a therapist.
|
| 874.16 | | LEZAH::QUIRIY | It's the Decade of the Bob | Mon Jun 17 1991 15:55 | 16 |
|
I'm convinced that there's no best way to find a therapist. The
one therapist that EAP referred me to was, in my opinion, abusive.
I've had therapists recommend me to other therapists and I didn't
click with any of them. One thing I realised is that, very often,
a referral doesn't mean that the referring therapist KNOWS the
person to whom you are being referred; I'd always thought this was
the case, though I'm not sure where I got that idea. I found my
current therapist through an ad in Sojourner. We've had a very
productive relationship for the past year and a half (2 years and
a half?). Best therapist I ever had. I liked her ad; it said
"psychotherapy with a sense of humor".
CQ
|
| 874.17 | even a GOOD therapist may not be good for YOU... | MEIS::TILLSON | Sugar Magnolia | Mon Jun 17 1991 15:58 | 9 |
|
My advise on finding a therapist - figure out what your goals are, what
you are looking for, etc...then INTERVIEW a half a dozen, a dozen
(however many it takes) therapists, at the rate of 1-2 per week until
you find someone you are comfortable with and who wants to work with
you on *your* goals...
/Rita
|
| 874.18 | Mirror, mirror, on the wall... | DENVER::DORO | | Tue Jun 18 1991 00:26 | 47 |
|
{WARNING...non-supportive reply}
Your message gave a tremendous picture of everyone else in your
household except one key person... YOU! IF I knew how to draw pent-up
anger, though, I might be able to sketch you.
Get thineself to a counselor! WHY have you given up the activities you
like? WHY can't you put the good ideas you've learned into practice?!
WHY are you so angry at the teenager (You don't SAY you're angry,
but your words all point that way!)
You may say your actions are to 'keep the peace', or to keep your wife
happy, or whatever, but IMO, (and my experience) BULL-oney!
I feel a lot of hesitation in saying this, because it is very
non-supportive, but the only person you didn't blame was yourself.
there's a not-too-subtle message in there for you. At some point
you've gotta believe (and practice accordingly) the only person that can
guarantee your happiness (or whatever state you desire) is you.
Get a good counselor(*) Get a better feeling about yourself. The rest
will follow.
(*) I have had the best luck by referral. Perhaps if you let this
group know approximately what your location is, I/we/they could recommend.
good luck.
Jamd
|
| 874.19 | Nodes names please | MAMTS3::CHOOVER | | Tue Jun 25 1991 16:18 | 2 |
| An earlier note stated that Blended Families is on NODE DLOACT. What
node are the other two on. Parenting and Non Custodial Parents.
|
| 874.20 | pointers | LEZAH::BOBBITT | my *life* is a MAD lib! | Tue Jun 25 1991 16:37 | 8 |
|
MRDATA::PARENTING
TERZA::NON_CUSTODIAL_PARENTS
these can be found in EASYNOTES.LIS
-Jody
|
| 874.21 | Parenting has moved | NODEX::HOLMES | | Thu Jun 27 1991 11:55 | 3 |
| Parenting is now on NOTED::PARENTING.
Tracy
|