Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    It may well be that she wants to do this, but 'working through 
    it' on her own is too difficult for her. You and she should seek
    professional help to deal with this. (And, btw, please don't 
    assume that it will 'cure' her lack of interest. It may
    well be that _for her_ zero is simply the appropriate level.
    If it is, you will have to decide between your own needs -
    marriage to her, or a relationship with sex.)
    
    

    re .0, If I were in your situation I would tell my spouse that I could
    not live a happy life without sex, and that if I couldn't get it at
    home I would seek it elsewhere, and I would.  I don't think that anyone
    should be expected to remain faithful to someone who won't have sex.
    
    I would explain that I'm very sorry if she/he is hurt by this, but that
    when I got married I never bargained for having to live a celibate
    life.
    
    Lorna
    

    Well, once you have ascertained that there is no physical (painful
    intercourse) or obvious mental reason for her lack of interest (former
    rape, incest, etc.) then I would ask her to go with you to counseling,
    and then set up an appointment.  A medical referral service can give
    you the name of a qualified therapist.  If she will not enter
    counseling with you, then I would consider divorce.  Situations like
    this do not get better by themself. 
    
    My assumption here is that you take care of yourself physically, that
    you bathe regularly and practice good hygiene, in other words, are not
    repulsive.  If there is a concern in that area, fix it immediately.
    
    mdh 

    Gee Lorna (.2) that seems rather a bit of a threat.  I think
    that professional counseling is a better route to travel,
    to find out why this man's wife is not interested in sex.
    It may be that she has some psychologial issues to deal
    with,and his going out to find sex isn't going to help
    her deal with them.  
    
    I suppose an open marriage could work, if both agreed to it.
    I think it would be very difficult to manage, and it's not what
    the base noter requested.  He's looking for ways to find out
    why his wife is no longer interested in sex.  I don't know that
    we can answer that here.
    
    One comment though: counseling won't work if the patient isn't willing 
    to let it.  If she agrees to counseling, either individually or
    as a couple, it has to be because she wants to save the marriage,
    which does sound like it's in danger.
    
    One question for the base noter: how long have you been married?
    You mentioned a period of six years,and I was wondering if
    that's how long you've been together, or how long the problem
    has existed.
    
    Richard

    re .4, I was just saying what I would do.  It's not a problem that I
    would have a lot of patience with.  Still, I don't see it as a threat
    as much as I see it as just putting my cards on the table and being
    honest.  (I think refusing to have sex with somebody that you're
    supposed to be married to and supposed to be in love with is a terrible 
    thing to do to somebody, and I think that people who do this should be
    aware of the possible consequences.)
    
    Of course, I agree with the suggestions of counseling and I think Marge
    made a very good point about hygiene.
    
    Lorna
    

    It sounds like she and you need counseling, not necessarily joint at
    the beginning.  You both need to find out what is going on inside at
    the moment.  Could she have some hidden trauma, that you don't know
    about, and she may have blocked?  Did you both come into this
    relationship with prior experience?
    
    This isn't something that looks like it can be resolved by working it
    out on your or her own.  It may also involve some painful revelations
    for both of you.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Meg

    re.0
    
    Both need to:
      - know what you expect of yourself          |
      - know what you expect of the other	  | < note the absence
      - know what the other expects of you	  |   of 'demand' or
      - know what the other expects of herself	  |   require
    
    _before_ it gets to be a shouting match.
    
    'I just don't know why' and 'I need to work this out for myself' are
    pretty blank wall statements when the problem effects you both.
    
    If the root cause of her aversion or lack of interest is _not_ you, then
    she really _does_ have to work it out for herself.  However, you are
    still entitled to some sort of window on the process.
    
    If she could express to you some of the self-exploration she is engaged
    in it would also you a long way toward mitigating your feelings of
    anger, betrayal, and distrust.
    
    I heartily endorse the previous suggestions that both of you get
    counselling, both separately and together.
    
      Annie

    
    
    Just out of curiosity....
    
    ...is the basenoter's wife on The Pill?  
    
    
    (I know of women who, while they were on it, had ABSOLUTELY no interest
    in sex whatsoever, yet when they went off the Pill, they regained
    sensitivity and began to enjoy it.....)
    
    
    While people ARE suggesting counselling, please don't disregard the
    fact that there might be a simple medical reason behind it (as opposed
    to psychological).
    
    
    kath

    
    	You beat me to it Kath.  That was my first thought
    	when I read the basenote.
    
    	My gyn said the biggest complaint she gets from women on
    	the Pill is the lack of sex drive.  
    
    	I really hope your wife's problem is as simple as this but
    	if not I wish you and she the best of luck in working things
    	out.
    
    	JJ
    

    I think the first order of the day is to have your wife get a thorough
    physical (as opposed to the listen-to-the-heart, take-the
    blood-pressure-and-you're-done kind).  Once her physical health is
    established, it's time to move on to the emotional health.
    
    There is little doubt in my mind that counseling--individually at
    first, is in order IF your wife is amenable to the idea.  People who
    end up "dragged" into counseling rarely cooperate long enough to
    benefit, so your wife will need to make that choice for herself.  In
    the interim, you may consider being encouraging and supportive of her
    feelings and fears, and start counseling yourself.  By showing your
    willingness to explore your feelings and concerns, she may feel more
    interested in touching her own.
    
    I think the real key here is to be supportive but not pressuring.  If
    you still care for her as a person (i.e. you haven't let your
    frustrations build up to the point of no return), be gentle and caring
    in your handling of the situation, while making every effort to start
    resolving it today.
    
    Wishing you both the happiness you hope for,
    Barb

    Please, folks, the basenoter made one additional request; I don't think
    anybody has done this yet:
    
    > Can you offer any advice for my wife and I?  In closing, I would 
    > like to ask permission of those who reply to let my wife see what
    > you wrote.
    
    DougO

    re .11 re .1 please feel free to share my reply with your wife

      I agree with what Lorna said...although I realize this is not
    the best course to take.  It's what I would do.
    
      If she won't go to counseling I'd suggest you go to a lawyer
    and get a divorce.
      It won't get better on it's own.  Don't waste your time realizing
    this the long way.  Do it now.
    
      Do *not* under any circumstances let her use the, "If you really
    loved me you'd understand".  Because you can use it back.  Besides
    it's childish and will get you nowhere.
    
      Take care and I wish you the best in whatever happens.
    
    
                                       L.J.
    
    p.s. I give my permission.

    re: .10
    
    This reply is "sharable."  Another thought occurred to me as I re-read
    your basenote...is your wife suffering from depression?  Many times
    people who are depressed have little or no interest in what many of us
    consider crucial to our well-being.  For some reason, her comment about
    not understanding why she has no interest in sex, struck a chord.  It
    came across as bland and neutral.  
    
    I was feeling depressed last year, and one of the first feelings that 
    disappeared was a need for sex.  The need for "disappearing" into sleep 
    replaced it.  Another thing that disappeared for me was the flavor and 
    savoring of life.  Left untreated, depression can continue for years
    and possibly worsen.  You may want to ask your doctor about this if any
    of this sounds plausible.  Again, you are welcome to share anything
    I've written.
    
    If I can help further, feel free to write.
    
    Hugs and Support,
    Barb

    Another thought is that there might be a possibility that your wife was
    sexually abused as child, but had no memory of it, but that childhood
    trauma is impacting her as an adult, particularly in the area of her
    sexuality and sexual expression.
    
    It is very common for adults who were abused as children to have no
    memory, or perhaps vague memories of traumatic events.  Sometimes, when
    least expected, a situation or event will start to trigger those
    memories.
    
    Sexual abuse of children has a broad definition.  A child can be
    traumatized by the threat or potential that 'something' might happen,
    even if the child was never directly touched by an adult.  Showing
    children pornography is abuse.  Sexual child abuse is a violation of a
    child's sexual boundaries by someone who is more powerful or who has
    authority over that child.  Parents, teachers, repair-people, older
    siblings, older cousins, etc., can fall into this category.  
    
    Please feel free to share this response with your wife.
    
    If you want information on resources available, please contact me
    off-line.
    
    Regards,
    
    Laura
    

    There are MANY possible reasons why a woman may not be interested in
    sex.  Like many of the other noters said it could be the Pill,
    depression, or it may be stress.
    
    Is your wife under a great deal of stress?  Is her life filled with
    things to do, work, children, sports, or hobbies?  One thing that I
    recall reading once was that to be interested in sex, you have to THINK
    about sex.  What I mean is, during the day, you have to have thoughts,
    perhaps fantasies, however brief, about sex.  Whether it's glancing at
    a stranger and wondering, or actually thinking about the sex act, or
    imagining your husband getting home and jumping on the sofa with him,
    or whatever.  And you have to have the time to think about it, which is
    why I asked the question does she ever think about sex.
    
    Sex is usually the act of intimacy in a marriage.  Does she feel
    intimate toward you?  Not you toward her, but she toward you?  Is she
    otherwise open with you, expressive with you?  Does she think about
    other men and sex?
    
    When a spouse is very angry, the first thing to go is sex.  If she is
    feeling angry about your relationship, it's possible she would have no
    interest in sex.  Obviously, these are all what-if's.  I too would
    suggest getting counselling, she might learn something about herself
    that would truly help her better understand herself.
    
    Of course, she may just have very little interest is sex, period. 
    There are many people out there who don't.  And for this, she shouldn't
    be condemned, even though she married.  That is something one would
    only learn about AFTER they were married, wouldn't it?  I must say that
    I believe people's sex drives are as varied as the wind, further one's
    sex drive varies with age.  To head for divorce court and subsequently
    "condemn" someone for having little interest in sex is rather unfeeling
    I think.
    

    re .16, it may be "unfeeling" to head for the divorce court because a
    spouse has no sex drive, but I don't think the one with a sex drive
    should be expected to go without either.  I really think that's too
    much to ask of a person who does like sex.
    
    I think totally mismatched sex drives is a good example of
    irreconcilable differences.  I couldn't be happy with someone who never
    wanted to have sex.
    
    Lorna
    

    re: .17
       Got there before me again Lorna.  :^)
    
    
                                 L.J.
    

    RE: basenote
    
                    Got *NO* answers....got the *same* problem.  I'm living
    with it but not for much longer!
    
    Dave

    Lots of things can cause a lack of interest in sex, already mentioned
    were the pill, depression, sexual abuse, anger at spouse.
    
    A word about anger.  Unexpressed anger can often be the cause and your
    wife may not even know that she is angry or what she is angry about and
    it may not even be you.  And if she was abused as a child, she may not
    remember it.
    
    I can really identify with the loss of sexual interest during times of
    depresssion and stress.  Depression can be long term and low grade and
    again, she may not even know she is depressed.
    
    Other drugs besides the pill can also be responsible, some
    antidepressants, notably Prozac, can suppress the ability to achieve
    orgasm which can take the fun out of sex.
    
    I know others have said this, but I'd like to add my support too.
    You have patiently given it time.  It will not go away on its own.
    Counseling is the next step.  If that doesn't work out.  You need to
    take care of yourself.  You must either accept the problem as permanent
    and go on living with and loving her or you must leave.  Give
    counseling a chance, though.
    
    Mary
    

    
    I haven't read all of this string, but this is my 2c...
    
    I stayed in a similar relationship for a long time i.e. I didn't
    want sex. My boyfriend suffered frustration very similar to yours.
    
    Why?
    Well, I had to get out of the relationship before I could see it.
    Maybe counselling - not just for sexual stuff but more general -
    would produce the same insights....
    
    For me, I was just so *ANGRY* with him about a whole load of other
    issues - without becoming conscious of it, I was withholding sex
    because it was the only way I had of expressing my anger.
    I was angry about things that had happened right back at the start
    of our relationship that I felt it was too "silly" or "vindictive"
    to bring up ten years later....
    
    I found it extremely difficult to be honest about this, even when
    questioned directly about why I wasn't interested in sex. It took
    years before I even *realised* that this was why - until then, I
    just "didn't know" why I'd gone off the idea.                   
    It took a lot of self-work to get in touch with my anger, and even
    longer to get up the nerve to express it as equitably as I could.
    It was the response that I got that eventually broke up the
    relationship.
    
    You can only work on yourself. You can ask yourself if there's
    anything you've done, or are doing, to turn her off. You can
    show her that you're truly open to taking feedback without
    biting her head off. You can explain that it's OK to talk about
    all those scary subjects like infidelity, orientation, fantasies,
    divorce, frustration, anger....AND MEAN IT. If you *even once*
    attack her in response to her honesty you'll have blown it....
    
    Otherwise, get divorced.
    .13 is right. It won't get better on it's own.
    I did - it's just that I was was the one with the strength to walk the
    talk...
    
    Just my take.
    'gail
    

    Ref: 55.24  

    I guess one thing to look at is the history of how she's felt about
    sex.  I've been in relationships where his impression of what sex meant
    was VERY different from mine.  One man didn't attach any intimacy to
    it, and really wasn't all that interested in it.  Is this a drastic
    change in her attitude?  Or has she always seemed somewhat
    disinterested?
    
    I second the notion that you and/or she get counseling.
    
    -Jody
    

    One other thing I forgot, and I don't know how to put this delicately
    but... uh, are you a good lover?  Have the two of you ever discussed
    your love making, or given each other any feedback?
    
    Something to consider...
    

    I don't understand the problem? I've been married, quite happily,
    for over a dozen years to a woman with little interest in sex. I
    have quite a bit of interest in it. On the other hand it's such a
    small part of a healthy relationship that I see no need to let it
    cause a break up. Would I like sex more often? Sure, am I going to
    push my wife into treatment she neither wants nor believes she needs?
    Obviously not. That would seem to be the moral equivalent of rape. If
    she wants help to change I'll do what ever she asks but it's her body
    and her attitude not mine.

    Sure, going long periods without sex is often frustrating but never
    unbearable. Being unable to go with out sex for a few months or longer
    would seem to be a problem that *I* would suggest counseling for.

    In short, what is a marriage built on? Sex or other things? Sex is fun
    but not all that big a deal compared to spiritual and mental
    compatibility. Comfort and support are quite satisfying with the right
    person without sex. There is so much in life for a loving couple to
    share that the pure sex part of it seems to be highly over considered
    in western society.

    ~Cliff

    re .25, the thing is, people who would find it unbearable to go more
    than a few months without sex don't need counseling as long as they can
    keep getting the sex!
    
    Lorna
    

    
    
    This is a reply from the basenote author...
    
    Bonnie J
    =wn= comod
    
    ________________________________________________________________
    
    
Thanks so much for all the inputs...your comments, insights, and suggestions
are much appreciated.  Let me give you a little more information about the
situation as I feel it may help to clarify some of the issues that have been
raised thus far.  

First, we are both in counseling and have been for quite some time 
(2 years).  At the current time, it is individual counseling with separate 
counselors.  However, in the past we have tried couples counseling but to no 
avail.  We both have realized that we have our own personal issues to work 
out before we can start working the marital issues.  

Here are some direct answers to your aforementioned questions...

Is your wife on the pill?  Yes...for the last 7 years  (age 26)

Is your wife depressed?  I would say mildly depressed and working the
                         issues in counseling.

Was your wife sexually abused?  Not to her knowledge  (This does
                                not mean that it is out of the 
                                question; i.e. "blocking")

Is your wife angry?  VERY angry and working the issues is counseling.


IS hygiene a problem?  No.


Why do I feel that this is a control issue?  That makes me real angry!!!


I hope this gives you all a better perspective.  Please keep the 
inputs flowing...this has been a super exercise for me.


Take care,

      Well, based on the information in .28 all I can say is good
    luck.
      I could never and would never hold out in *any* relationship for
    that long that I was unhappy in.  I'm of the type to change my
    situation if I don't like it.  Not hold on 'til I'm miserable hoping
    for a change.
    
                  Take care,
    
                               L.J.
      

    I think the bottom line here lies in the answer to ""How much do I want
    this relationship to continue?"  You may need to ask yourself how much
    time you are willing to invest in holding on and what "payoff" you
    expect in return for hanging in there.  Ask yourself if you feel
    whether the investment is worth the risk of losing the relationship
    after all your effort; then balance your answers out against what
    happens if the relationship does a turnaround and you both end up
    "winning" a stronger better relationship.
    
    Another thought triggered by the man who talked about cuddling.  Is
    there a reason why your wife and you couldn't "pleasure" each other
    through touching, stroking, etc.?  If she does not choose to perform
    the act itself, she might possibly feel less threatened and stressed if
    she was at least contributing to your pleasure and well-being. It
    might also help you to feel less on-the-edge.

    Allow me to recommend a book (Just what you what to hear, right?)
    with the funny name of:
    
    "ESO - Extended Sexual Orgasm"
    
    Besides the obvious, the book gives solid exercises for building
    communication skills along with nuggets of powerful information.
    
    Richard

    Forgive me for being nosy, but: what are you getting out of your
    marriage? If, as you've said there is not only a lack of sex, but there is
    also anger present, I'm beginning to really wonder why you're staying
    with this, and whether she wants to stay with this, and whether you're
    staying married because one of you or both of you believe that divorce
    is wrong, as opposed to loving each other and feeling great commitment
    toward each other, and a strong bond of friendship.
    
    Sometimes, trying to stay in a no-win situation is not the best option.
    And I'm assuming if your wife is on the Pill, that you have no children
    that you're staying married for. (my folks stayed married for us, so we
    just grew up knewing that they couldn't stand each other. It wasn't
    fun!)
    
    Are you still in love with her? Is she still in love with you?

    Well, my reading of the base noter's follow-on indicated that
    anger was present, but not what the anger was about. His wife
    could be working on anger which is unrelated to the marriage (job,
    relatives, Yugo dealerships, whatever).

    I'm frankly uncomfortable with the ease with which some people
    (not directed at any specific responses; there were several which
    together contributed to this feeling) can advise somebody they
    don't know in a situation they have minimal information about to
    leave his marriage. I certainly wouldn't want to own the
    responsibility for that kind of advice unless I knew a whole lot
    more about the situation and individuals (and probably not then).

    To paraphrase some generals recently - this is life, it's not Nintendo.

    re .33,
    
    No, this ain't Nintendo, but it ain't real life either.  This is notes.
    
    Other than that, I agree with you whole heartedly.
    
    Eugene

    Short and sweet... Try making love and not having "sex"... You would be
    surprised of the results..
    
    REK  

    re .33:
    
    Paul, speaking for mself, my advice was based on my personal
    experience.  I stayed in a marriage similar to that for too long.
    I wish someone had told me to bail.
    
    mdh

    My feeling is that if you are still in love, then it's worth it to work
    it out...looks like you're already doing this.  But if there is no
    love, then the counseling/therapy may just be a waste of your time.
    If it were me and I was still in love, I'd try anything/everything to
    save the marriage.            ^^^^^^^^
    
    I hope it all works out happily for you both!
    
    -Dotti

    One thing I was wondering about:  Why is she on the pill?  Abstinance
    is certainly the healthiest form of contraception.  My advice would be
    to acknowledge that there will be abstinance anyway, drop the pill. and 
    see how she feels in a few months.  Could be the pill is not good for
    her.  There's lots of us who can't take it for various reasons.
    
    The hugs and cuddling advice sounds good to me too.
    
    /Wendy

    re .38, I disagree with that advice.  You never know when two people
    living together might wind-up having sex spontaneously, regardless of
    past abstinance, and then she might get pregnant which would only add
    to all the problems they already have.  
    
    Lorna
    

    I wrote "acknowledge that there would be abstinance"  I meant, make an
    agreement.  I was thinking "but get a box of condoms, just in case".  I
    should have written that too.
    
    Just tryin' ta help.
    
    /Wendy

    I too was glad to hear more from the base noter, and finding out that
    both he and his wife are being counseled.  After first reading
    some of the detailed replies, I was afraid that showing some
    of the suggestions to his wife without benefit of counseling
    would have been a bit more than she could have handled (perhaps
    that was the case anyway, but I hope not).
    
    For what it's worth, I felt that any reply here implied
    permission to pass along to his wife.
    
    What's good for one couple may not necessarily be good for
    another. It's apparent you want to save your marriage, but
    that marriage without sex is not acceptable to you.  I wish
    you and your wife luck finding some compromise or solution
    to your situation.
    
    One question: in your second reply, you mentioned a control
    issue.  Is it that you feel your wife is controlling you by
    withholding sex? If that's the case, your anger is understandable.
    She needs to find another outlet for her control, or some means 
    of letting go of control.  I would hope this is being addressed in 
    counseling.
    
    Or is it that *she* is angry, and has yet to find the cause
    in her counseling sessions?  Sorry to be confused.
    
    Richard

    
    
    RE: The Pill
    
    I just thought I'd bring another point up again about the pill.
    
    This is the kind of side-effect to the pill that many doctor's "blow
    off" as not being important.
    
    I mentioned to my doctor while I was on the pill that I was suffering
    severe depressive bouts and he said that there was "probably another
    reason."  Since I've been off the pill, they've all but vanished (and
    my sexual desire has increased tremendously).
    
    The problem is that the pill isn't something to play around with, you
    don't want to go off it then back on multiple times, but I WOULD
    consider it as a major factor.
    
    kathy

    What I see underlying all this is that this wife is choosing to "own"
    the entire problem.  She seems to refuse to recognize that her reasons
    for not wanting sex, whatever they are, may be a problem to her but
    that her not having sex is causing a problem to her husband, a man she 
    purports to love.  She cannot take this second problem "away" and work 
    it out herself and then come back all "cured".  I get the feeling a large 
    part of the basnoter's frustration is this lack of allowance of shared 
    ownership.  His wife must be willing to recognize that her husband is 
    also having a problem, (one she shares in equally), and needs sympathy, 
    understanding and a clear plan toward a solution in order for things to 
    be solved.  Neither's sex drive is the problem, not his, not hers.  The 
    imbalance is the problem.  And right now the wife appears to dismiss her 
    husband and his problem completely and expects him to allow her to hold 
    their marriage together, (or break it apart), by herself while he sits on 
    the sidelines and waits.  *This is his marriage too!*  
    
    The marriage is a third thing, separate from either one of them.  And 
    despite the history and/or emotional baggage of either of the partners, 
    the marriage itself must be tended equally, problems with it shared 
    equally and solutions found together, without blame.  Her problem may
    be an attitude toward sex that she needs to work on alone.  But
    simultaneously, the marriage has an imbalance problem from which both
    parties suffer and on which both parties must work equally.  I'm
    surprised none of the counselors have made her see that.
    
    Sandy Ciccolini
                                                             

It's every individuals right to decide how much, if any, sexual activity they
want. I also think it's reasonable to expect that a marriage will include sex.
If those two rights conflict then either a compromise or a divorce will result.
Maybe the wife wouldn't mind if the husband had affairs to deal with the need
for sex. If the rest of the marriage is working, why not? It's fair to say "I
don't want sex", it's not fair to say "you can't have any either". liesl

    All this stuff brought back some painful memories. I had to live a
    similar situation and it did end in divorce. The causes for her
    withholding of sex had nothing to do with me (we had had three children by
    then); we had a reasonably happy sex life. Eleven years later, I am in a
    happy marriage, she is still single and just as unhappy as before in spite of
    many years of therapy. I'll have to tell you that therapists don't give
    a damn about the relationship, about the children, about the marriage
    as an institution. They only treat the individual. It is a monstruous
    disregard for the family. I now despise psychologists who engage in
    marriage counselling with such a callous attitude. 
    
    The most important thing you must realize is that you are not here to
    solve her problems and that you can and should pursue your own
    happiness. Nobody else will do that for you and you only get one shot
    at living. I am open to a direct contact if you want practical
    counselling instead of psycho-B.S.

The following reply is from a member of the community who wishes
to remain anonymous. I will be glad to forward mail to her if
anyone wishes to contact her directly.

Bonnie J
=wn= comod

____________________________________________________________


Up until 2 years ago, my husband and I had a very active and healthy 
sex life, which was enjoyed by both of us. But then it started to 
change, gradually I found my interested in sex started to deminish but 
I was still able to 'keep up appearances' and continue the sexual 
relationship with my husband, but that too changed until it got to the 
stage where I would freeze as soon as my husband tried to make any 
physical/sexual contact with me. Even a kiss and a cuddle became 
unbearable because I would automatically think that it meant he wanted 
sex.
Finally I could hide this no longer and we both admitted there was a 
problem. I went to my doctor and expalined the situation to him, he 
referred me to a psycho-therapist as he felt there may have been some 
deep psychological problems that I was not aware of. I was with this 
therapist for about 6 months before it was decided that there was 
nothing from my past that could be 'blamed' so then both my husband 
and I were referred to a sexual-therapist. 
This therapist did not try to determin why this has happened, he was 
there to help us 'get back to normal'. We have now been seeing him for 
18 months, it isn't easy, and it is very much a case of 2 steps 
forward and one step back. I really do wish there was an instant cure 
and I do get so angry, frustrated and desperate with my self but the 
therapist has taught some very useful things and the basic step by 
step stages needed to start getting sexually active again.

I am quite happy to talk to you about the different stages that we 
have been taught if you would like to send me a mail via the moderater 
of this conference, but mainly I want you to know that there is proper 
professional help out there if you need it, but first you and your 
wife have to be able to admit that there is a problem and that you do 
want help.

You also mention that your wife is being treated for depression, I am also 
receiving treatment for depression and this doesn't make things easy 
and I have been told that once the depression is treated then the 
sexual therapy will be easy to work with. The two really to cause me 
problems, on the one habd I am desperate to resume a healthy sex life 
with my husband, and yet at other times I couldn't care if he walked 
out on me tomorrow ! These two conflicting emotions are very 
frightening.

One word of advice/warning, when you see a sexual-therapist one of the 
first things that they stress to you is that it is not an individuals 
problem, it is 'your' problem together. At the beginning I would 
always say it was all my fault and I was to blame, but we have been 
told that it is as much my husbands problem as it is mine. I think he 
found that hard at first, after all he wanted sex and I was the one 
who wouldn't/couldn't give it, but now he does realise that it is his 
problem too. So please be prepared to shoulder some of the 'blame'

I hope this has helped, and please feel free to contact me 'off-line' 
if yuo want to talk some more.

    I can testify from personal experience that depression is hell on
    the sex drive.  
    
    It becomes a kind of vicious cycle.  You're depressed so you don't
    feel like sex, and then you don't get enough sex so you get more
    depressed, so you feel less like . . . and after a while I want to
    bite the hand that wants to stroke me. 
    
    Not that sex is a cure-all, but it sure does help sometimes.  
    
    I find that often if I go ahead, try to hold myself away from my
    reluctance, and just wait a few minutes, I can get past that
    depressed non-interest and into arousal.  But sometimes, at the
    worst, I can't even do that.  
    
    --bonnie