Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    I think that drinking -- no stats, just based on observations -- is
    becoming less acceptable for men and women.  Are ther more women
    alcoholics today?  Maybe, but I think that would be hard to measure
    because I suspect that many of "yesterday's" women alcoholics did their
    drinking in private.

    
    
    From what I've read and heard about alcoholism, women are much more
    likely than men to drink secretly (because of the stigma around public
    drinking/drunkenness in women), and as a result, few people know of a 
    woman's drinking problem until it is quite advanced.  Also, I remember
    reading that alcoholism in women tends to escalate faster and cause
    health problems sooner than alcoholism in men.  I'm not sure if this is
    because of physiological differences or because of the secret drinking.
    
    Justine
    
    PS  Jean Killbourne (who did the film "Killing us Softly") has a film
    out and speaks about images of alcohol in the media and alcoholism in
    women.

    
    
    Does anyone know if alcoholism is hereditary?  Or is it environment?
    
    NICK
    

    <Does anyone know if alcoholism is hereditary?
    yes
    There are some very solid indications that there are some
    familial/genetic predispositions to alchoholism.
    
    <Or is it environment?>
    yes, as well
    There are lots of people with the 'genetic predisposition' who do NOT
    become alchoholics.
    
    

    Yes, Alcoholism can be inherited.  My father is an alcoholic as was his
    father before him.  So far, none of his children are, but we certainly
    do worry about it and we each have our own ways of coping with it.  My
    sister became a bartender of all things, but it is very healthy for
    her, she sees enough of what goes on in a bar situation to never put
    herself in that position.  My brother drinks very little if at all, and
    I worry about my glass of wine with dinner.  Sometimes I will sit and
    look at it, and wonder, "is this how it starts?", so I become very
    cautious and will go for extended periods with no alcohol at all, just
    to be sure I still can.  So even though none of us have become
    alcoholics in the immediate family, we are certainly all affected in
    some way.
    
    -HA

    
    
    RE:   .5
    
    Are you sure your case is genetic inheritance, or could it be
    environment.
    
    i.e. If an alcoholic father does not raise his child, does said child
    have a better chance of becoming an alcholic simply because his absent
    father was one?
    
    NICK
     

    I would have to say both....There are a number of studies (of course, I
    don't have any handy, so can't quote anything specific), that have
    shown that there really is a genetic link as far as alcoholism goes.
    There have been studies showing that children raised out of the actual
    environment (i.e. adopted, etc) have gone on to exhibit the behavior.
    
    But, you are also correct in that environment pays a very big part as
    well.  Our environment growing up was anything but healthy and I'm sure
    plays a part in who we are today.
    
    -HA

    The studies have been done in (I believe) Sweden; this country has the
    world's best computerized family records.
    
    This is how the study was done.
    
    Male twins that were born to an alcoholic parent were the base.  Then those
    twins had to have been separated at birth.  One twin had to have been
    raised in a non-alcoholic home, the other in an alcoholic home.  (I'm
    not sure if that meant the birth home or not.)
    
    These twins were compared to male twins *not* born in an alcoholic home. 
    The second set of twins were also separated at birth, one raised in an
    alcoholic home, the other not.
    
    These were the results:
    
    There was *no* significant difference in the incidence of alcoholism
    between the twins born in an alcoholic home.  Both sets - those raised
    in an alcoholic home and those that were not - had a *FOUR TIMES
    GREATER* incidence of alcoholism than the second set of twins.
    
    This study was interpreted to mean that there is little to no
    environmental basis to the *disease* of alcoholism.  That does not mean
    that children raised in "dysfunctional" homes are not more prone to problem
    drinking.  It simply means that they are not necessarily more prone to
    the physical disease of alcoholism.
    
    I do not know why only male twins were used.
    
    No, the twins were not separated for the purpose of the study.  The
    study was done using historical data.
    
    E Grace
    
  

>    I do not know why only male twins were used.

Twins were used because it is the only well to eliminate confounding
factors such as differing ages, etc.

Males were used because all studies use males, because women confound the
results because (*gasp*) women are different than men, both emotionally and
biologically.  Men are *standard* humans, women deviate from the norm in
their femaleness.

D!

    see also:
    
    Medical
    837 - what are the physical effects of alcohol
    
    Human_Relations
    29 - alcoholism & its devastating effectson everyone
    702 - drug addiction is not JUST a disease
    
    Womannotes-V2 (which will soon be back online)
    748 - alcoholism and chemical dependencies
    750 - alcoholism/substance abuse - the experience
    
    -Jody
    

    
    I think the heredity v. environment question is very tricky, and there
    is conflicting evidence about it.  
    
    I don't think anyone has found a physical characteristic that allows one 
    to predict (with any great certainty) whether or not a person will become 
    alcoholic.  There are different rates of alcoholism in different countries 
    and across different ethnic groups, but there again, that difference might 
    be attributed to physiological differences (not yet discovered) or 
    cultural differences.
    
    One thing that might shed some light is to look at what happens to
    people who come from countries with low rates of alcoholism and move
    to countries with higher rates and what happens to their children?
    The key here would be to have large numbers of people to study,
    common definitions and trustworthy reporting of alcoholism, and time
    to follow groups for more than one generation.
    
    I'd also like to see more studies done on women.  I think a lot of our
    data is based on studies of men, and I don't think it all applies to
    women.
    
    Justine

         <<< QUARK::NOTES_DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HUMAN_RELATIONS.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'? >-
================================================================================
Note 739.2                     Jellinek's Disease                        2 of 44
HPTS::JOVAN "pa$$ion"                                64 lines  14-APR-1989 18:02
                      -< The Biochemistry of Alcoholism >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While medical science cannot at this time assert that a particular gene, a 
particular enzyme, or a particular neurotransmitter actually causes 
alcoholism, there is much known about the biochemistry of alcohol 
addiction.

We know that the alcoholic dies not metabolize alcohol in the same manner 
that the rest of us who drink alcohol do.  We know that his liver functions 
differently from the time of that very first drink.  We know that certain 
unique developments occur in the alcoholic's brain - changes to the cells, 
between the cells, within the cells - that do not occur in the rest of us.

We know that the chemistry and biology within the body of an alcoholic 
responds abnormally to alcohol.  His body reacts by first adjusting to 
alcohol's impact, then accommodating its presence, and finally becoming 
addicted.  What is not normal for others becomes normal for him.  His body 
becomes so adjusted to alcohol that he *cannot* exist without it, much as 
a fish cannot absorb oxygen out of water.

Scientists are presently looking for biological "markers", those genes or 
enzymes or brain waves that may designate future alcoholics.  This search 
has exciting implications in the areas of education and prevention.

The entire area of alcoholism research hold great promise of unwrapping the 
secrets of the liver, of the brain,  of the cell that may one day reveal to 
us why and how seventeen million Americans have contracted Jellinek's 
disease and which of their children are marked for alcoholism.

What distinguishes Jellinek's disease from simple heavy drinking is 
physical dependence, not psychological dependence.  The psychological 
symptoms are secondary to the physical dependence and have no bearing on 
one developing Jellinek's disease.  The critical and essential Component of 
Jellinek's disease is physical dependence. 

This physical dependence is cause by an irregular body chemistry that at 
first allows greater tolerance, but, at the same time, kicks off the 
poisonous, intensely additive substances that play havoc with body and 
brain cells, rendering the will impotent.

The metabolism of the alcoholic differs from that of normal persons in three 
major ways:

1) *The levels of substance called acetaldehyde that is found in the 
bloodstream*  Although acetaldehyde is a normal by-product of alcohol 
metabolism, alcoholics product much higher levels that nonalcoholics.

2)  *The presence in the brain of a highly addictive, heroinlike substance 
called TIQ (tetrahydroisoquinoline)* which many feel is the root cause of 
alcoholic addiction.  It is found in high levels in the brains of 
alcoholics.

3)  *The thickening of the brain cell membranes*.  These membranes are 
abnormally thickened in the brains of alcoholics and require constant 
supplies of alcohol to function normally".  If alcohol is withheld, the 
membranes work badly and the body experiences intense discomfit or 
withdrawal.  The membranes do not feel "normal" until alcohol is ingested 
again.

____________________________

	Reprinted without permission from: Alcoholism, The genetic 
					   Inheritance   - 1988	
					   Kathleen W. Fitzgerald, Ph.D

    D!
    
    I knew why only male *twins* were used.  My comment was that I didn't
    know why only *male* twins were used.
    
    And I really "knew" that, also.  I just don't remember what reasoning
    was given by the group conducting the study.
    
    By the way, hundreds and hundreds of twins were studied.
    
    There *ar* specific differences in the bodies of alcoholics.  A reduced
    amount -- or total lack of -- endorphins, and "abnormal" liver
    functioning.  The problem now is that they have not come up with a test
    that can discover if these things are present before alcoholism begins,
    or if they caused by the disease.
    
    E Grace

    >>There *ar* specific differences in the bodies of alcoholics.  A reduced
    
    
    Naturally, that should have read "There *are* specific ....
    
    
    Thanks for the posting, Marge.
    
    E Grace

    I read somewhere (can't remember where at all) that babies born to
    heavy alcohol users are (may be) born addicted to alcohol.  The details
    are fuzzy.  I just stored the pertinent info i.e. don't dring while
    pregnant.

    Back in 1985, The New York Times Magazine ran a lengthy article re:
    alcoholism.  Here are a few gems from that article....
    
    "Research teams are also uncovering additional biological markers they
    hope will eventually pinpoint many of those in danger of becoming
    alcoholics.  Liver researchers throughout the world have already
    determined that alcoholics do not metabolize alcohol properly, and
    preliminary research indicates that some people are born with a faulty
    hepatic (liver) enzyme system which could lead to alcohol addiction."
    
    "Only 3 percent to 5 percent of the alcoholic population ends up on
    Skid Row; most maintain homes and families, and masterful facades."
    
    "Alcohol washes through every organ, but it is nowhere more destructive
    than in the Byzantine workings of the liver and brain."
    
    "Alcoholism also leads to high blood pressure, stroke and heart attack;
    damage to the brain, pancreas and kidney (diabetes, renal failure);
    stomach and duodenal ulcers, colitis and irritable colon; birth defects
    and fetal alcohol syndrome; impotence and infertility; premature aging,
    and a host of other disorders such as muscle cramps, diminished
    immunity to disease, sleep disturbances and edema.  In fact,
    alcohol-related diseases account for 30 percent to 50 percent of all
    hospital admissions."
    
    "Another blood test is being developed that will detect changes in the
    liver that forecast cirrhosis, a deadly ailment whose risk increases in
    *anyone* who consumes four ounces or more of 86 proof liquor a day."
    
    Laura_who_is_grateful_to_have_celebrated_9_years_of_sobriety_yesterday!
    

    
    Happy Anniversary!  :-)
    
    

    Yes, Laura,
    
    9 years sober is certainly something to write home about!
    
    Kate

    Question:
    
    We are having a family celebration and want to serve champage.
    Some members of the family do not drink.  Are there any champagne-
    like non-alcoholic substances that could do for the festivities? 
    Baby Cham?  Somehow ginger ale doesn't seem right.  What we'd like
    to do is have both kinds of champagne available.  The sober members
    of the family are comfortable with being around moderate drinking.
    
    I cannot ask them about champage substitutes as the party is a
    surprize.
    
    Thank you.  I apologize in advance if this is a crashingly insensitive
    question and hope you'll educate me.
    
      Margaret

    
    Margaret,
    
    
    There are some wonderful, non-alcoholic sparkling ciders that are as
    elegant as champagne (well, at least as elegant as the champagne I can
    afford :-) and come in a champagne-style bottle with a dangerous cork
    and everything!  I don't know where you live, but the Bolton Country
    Store in Bolton, MA carries it.
    
    
    						/Rita
    

    Re .20: Suggestion: make sure that more mundane things such as club
    soda are available, too; personally, if I were drinking a non-alcoholic
    toast, I'd much prefer club soda or even plain water to
    pseudo-champagne. [I wouldn't squawk if handed a glass of sparkling
    cider, of course, Momma having raised me right, but I'd be happier if I
    had the choice. ;-)]
    
    -b

    re.20
    
    warning!! BabyCham is alcoholic -- it has precious little to do with
    champagne.
    
    

    There are some sparkling fruit drinks that have just come out on
    the market here in my part of New England. They look like wine coolers
    and are quite bubbly but are non alcoholic.
    
    Bonnie

    I looooooovvveee sparkling apple cider.  Martignetti's (sp) makes the
    one I most often buy, and it is available in most large supermarkets in
    my area (Shrewsbury, MA).
    
    And how, Margaret, could it possibly be insensitive to ask rather than
    assume?
    
    squeeqyhug
    
    E Grace

    I like sparkling white grape juice and sparkling red grape juice. 
    they're both nonalcoholic.  Welch makes good ones!
    
    -Jody - who-doesn't-really-drink-alcohol
    

Ariel makes a non-achoholic Champagne, but I don't particularly like it - I'm a
well known Champagne snob, though I have been known to drink good California
sparlking wines on occasion.

I usually serve Martinelli's to my guests who don't drink alcohol when I'm
serving champagne. It goes well with the same things as champagne, though it's
considerably sweeter. That's fine as long as you aren't serving it with dinner.

I too like the sparking grape juices.

	-- Charles

    Ariel makes a wonderful non-alcohol champagne.  It is sold at Bread and
    Circus.  It is pricey, about $8 per bottle, but it is worth it.  Ariel
    also makes very good non-alcohol wines.
    
    Needless to say that there are a myriad of opinions in sober circles
    about drinking or not-drinking non-alcohol beers/wines/champagnes.
    
    Personally, I wouldn't have touched the stuff during my first few years
    of sobriety, but I have found that it is not a trigger for me.  If it
    ever did spark a desire to drink in me, I would not touch the stuff. 
    Suffice it to say that I don't have these beverages as a daily or even
    regular part of my fluid intake.  I have it occasionally, for party or
    festive events.
    
    Laura
    

    Thank you everyone for the good suggestions.  I'll look for the
    Ariel as well as the various sparkling grape juices and the 
    Martinelli's.  I also promise to have plenty of club soda, seltzer,
    and other non-alcoholic beverages around.  
    
    (Charles, you'll be glad to hear that we celebrated the wedding with
     vintage Perrier Jouet, in the flower bottle, of course.) 
    
      Margaret

    There are a couple of decent non-alcoholic beers available, too.
    Clausthaler and Bucklers come to mind. Haake Beck is very good
    if you can find it. (O'Doul's from Anheuser-Busch tastes like
    watered down Bud Light, which is to say, it has no taste at all.)

    One thing to note is that dealcoholized wines and beers *DO* have
    alcohol in them.  It is a very small percentage, but if sobriety is at
    issue, the percentage probably is not.
    
    E Grace

    re .31 Non-alcoholic beers have .5% or less alcohol. By comparison
    most beers have 4% alcohol or more. The human body can process
    such a small amount of alcohol without any chance of intoxication.
    
    Put another way, with one eighth the alcohol of regular beer, one
    12 oz. bottle of NA beer is like 1.5 ounces of regular beer. Not
    enough to feel.
    
    Note: The stuff is _not_ recommended for recovered alcoholics, as 
    the taste, smell and other elements may evoke former behavior patterns. 
    (From a recent magazine article.)
    
    Dana

    Dana,
    
    >>Note: The stuff is _not_ recommended for recovered alcoholics, as 
    >>the taste, smell and other elements may evoke former behavior patterns. 
    >>(From a recent magazine article.)
    
    This was my point.  Also, the liver process in an alcoholic is not well
    enough known to know how much alcohol will set off physical reactions.
    
    E Grace

For what it's worth, and apropos of not very much, I think the Ariel non-alcohol
white wine is pretty decent. Not wonderful, but not bad. The red I have no use
for. Ariel is by far the best of the non-alcoholic wines, though I haven't
tried any of the latest reverse osmosis non-alcoholic wines that have been
made in response to Ariel's popularity.

Perrier Jouet is fine, but I prefer Veuve Cliquot or Bollinger for having
around. I like Roederer Cristal or Gosset Rose for celebrating. Cheap but
drinkable sparkling wines in the Champagne style that I like are Paul Cheneau
or Freixinet Cordon Negro. I like Ferrari Brut as well, but it's harder to find.

	-- Charles-the-snob

    I've become very partial to the Sour Cherry flavor of Sundance
    recently.

    But, then again, I mostly drink Diet Pepsi.

    Reaction to the original note - is the subject intended to be
    women versus men drinking *at all* or drinking beyond moderation?
    I know very few people of either sex who never drink alcohol at
    all. (As one who queries waiters closely about the possible
    alcoholic content of desserts in schmaltzy restaurants, I
    generally find myself a minority of [close to] one in the
    *non*-drinker category. And as discussed some time ago, a
    non-drinker couldn't even trust the entrees in the Blue Strawbery
    in Portsmouth NH.)