Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    copied form its original location
    
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                        -< Topics of Interest to Women >-
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Note 618.26                    How to talk to men                       26 of 42
TLE::D_CARROLL "get used to it!"                     26 lines   9-JAN-1991 14:56
                 -< it's tough but gets easier with practice >-
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    Asking someone out is always hard.  Asking out a stranger can be either
    harder or easier...
    
    I once met a guy briefly at a class.  Looked up his name in the
    (school) phone book and called him up and asked him out.  It was very
    hard and it is the only time I have ever done anything like that.  he
    was immensely flattered and accepted.  We actually went out a couple of
    times, though nothing ever flew.
    
    Not quite as hard but almost happened this summer.  I met a woman at a
    net.gathering, was attracted to her, and then wrote her an email
    mesage.  Email is much easier for me, but it still was tough.  She
    answered back "yes" (though i got the feeling she wasn't as flattered
    as the guy in the previous paragraph) and we have been out quite a
    number of times.
    
    It is very hard for me to ask someone out.  I get jittery everytime
    until I ask myself: what am I so afraid of?  Rejection?  No, if s/he
    said no, then I would just say thank you and not worry about it. 
    Eventually I decided my fear was unfounded so I was going to ignore it. 
    It usually works out well.
    
    (I actually had the guts to ask a woman I had never met before, not
    even spoken to, to dance at a bar.  That was the hardest yet!!)
    
    D!

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                        -< Topics of Interest to Women >-
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Note 618.27                    How to talk to men                       27 of 42
CISG16::JOHNSON "jt johnson"                         17 lines   9-JAN-1991 15:48
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    Well, I'm not sure most men find it that easy to ask a stranger for a
    date.  It's like doing a cold boot on a system when you aren't sure where
    the bootfile came from.  Risky.
    
    It seems easier to make a suggestion that sounds more like an outing
    between friends.  Lunch is good for that.  Less pressure than a full-
    blown formal dinner date.
    
    If everybody seems to be having a good time on the first get-together,
    another one can be arranged.  Either person can initiate the first or
    subsequent events without risking too terribly much, I would think. If
    the beginning is casual and friendly, a refusal at any point can be
    fairly casual, too.
    
    Just some thoughts.
    
    -jt

    
    
    No! Definitely not! & I hate the thought that I couldn't!!
    There are no logical reasons for it either, I'm just basically chicken!
    I just take the easy way out & hope that if I am interested in a
    guy he'll make the first move. So far so good!!
    
    Liz 

    I asked a fellow to a turnabout dance in high school, but he declined,
    saying he was a band member employed elsewhere that evening.  It took
    so much courage to do the asking, that I forswore to do so again when
    he turned me down.  Another promise broken. ;^)
    
    mdh 
    

    I don't think I'd ask a complete stranger out, but I might
    approach a man in a bar and offer to buy a drink, or at a meeting
    and ask if he wants to go to coffee.  Come to think of it, I have
    done that before, though since it was for making contacts rather
    than for making time I don't think that counts.  
    
    As for what I'd say?  "Hi, X, this is Bonnie from work <or
    whatever>.  I have two tickets to <event like a Red Sox game or a
    concert>.  Would you like to go with me?"
    
    --bonnie

    I have once or twice.  I've also chickened out once or twice.  Probably
    chickened out more than I did it.  
    
    Generally I would try to make them an offer they couldn't refuse, like
    typeset an invitation or write it in rhyme, inviting them to dinner, my
    treat.  Then again, I'm the type to bring men roses, that's just me....
    
    -Jody

    If there were an event that "required" an escort, back in the days when
    my permanent escort was not yet part of my life, I would ask an
    acquaintence to accompany me.   This happened to me 3 or 4 times before
    I was married.  I don't recall anything especially painful about it.  I
    somehow always thought it would be easier for people today than back in
    the dark ages when I was dating.
    
    NOTE:  Definition of "required" was office Christmas party, club dance, or
    dorm party - some such thing.
    
    
    -m

    I have....more times than I would like to remember.  I don't know if
    it's just me but it seems to me that the men in this part of the
    country are either too shy or their egos are too fragile to risk a
    "no".  So in Colorado I find if I don't do the asking I don't go out. 
    In other parts of the country it's been a different story.  I've found
    that men in New England and the Pacific northwest seem to be a bit more
    sure of themselves.  
    
    I don't mind doing the asking too mucH but I find that it sets a
    precedent for relationships that I definitely feel uncomfortable with. 
    After having asked for the first date I seem to be expected to control
    all of the other aspects of the relationship too...where to go, what we
    do.  I mean, I like leading occasionally but it gets boring as a steady
    diet!
    
    Nanci  

    
    Sure. No problem.
    
    But then, I'm only going to want to go out for the
    evening/lunch/whatever with someone when I know at least a little about
    them - enough to know that I find them interesting company. 
    So we would have talked at little at first, probably with other people
    around....
    
    I wouldn't walk up to a complete stranger in a bar and ask him out
    because I'd be acting purely off how he looked (seeing as I'd know
    nothing more about him) - and I don't specifically use looks as a dating 
    criteria. Guess it depends where you go to meet men (or wmn) :-)
    
    'gail                         
    

    I have asked men out before, sometimes it turned out well sometimes it
    didn't. I was usually very nervous about calling (it was always men I
    knew casually).  I asked a lot of my male friends how they felt about
    this, all said they approved, but a few also said that they would think
    the woman was desperate (this made me more nervous).  
    I would strongly recommend, asking men out for something casual, 
    like you just want to become better friends (like to go out in a
    group), then if it doesn't click you have less to lose, and maybe a
    friend to gain .
    Carol

I've asked quite a lot of men out.

A lot of them found it hard to say "No', (maybe this isn't so different
from women ?), they would say "er -oh I'm busy then - some other time".

Eventually I made it a rule to ask three times maximum. If they still
didn't say yes, I assumed they weren't interested. In fact I've asked
more men out than I've been asked out by men (no rude comments !). 

Usually things have turned out better when I've done the saking,
probably because I  have much better taste than them :-). And this
includes strangers met at parties......

Jane

	Yes, I've asked several men out.  It's usually worked out pretty well,
	i.e. they've accepted and we've had a good time together.  A couple 
	times I was turned down (I asked a guy to dance, not realizing I was
	in a gay bar %^}, I asked another guy to go to a concert, just as it
	was about to start and he already had plans). 

	The last time I asked a guy out for a first date was almost four 
	years ago.   We're getting married in August. %^)

	Sue

    re: .8
    
    Yeah, it gets tiring as a steady diet -- I imagine that's how a
    lot of men feel/felt about the old ways when they were expected to
    make all the advances.  
    
    So now I try to pull my share of the responsibility for getting a
    relationship going.
    
    --bonnie

    I just realized that this note is, not heterosexist exactly, but you
    get the idea. I can just see starting a note "Lesbians - do you ever
    have trouble asking a woman out?" It just doesn't mean the same
    thing...
    
    	*click*
    	-- Charles

    
    What do you mean by "It just doesn't mean the same thing"?
    

    re .16 re .15

    (I'm not Charles, nor do I play him on TV, but I'll hazard an
    answer:)

    The question of a woman asking out a man has a unique meaning
    because of the traditional roles involved (man asks woman). The
    topic deals with reversing the tradition.

    I'd guess that "not meaning the same thing" is a reference to the
    lack of heterogeneity in the case of a woman asking another woman
    out. There's no a priori definition of which is the traditional
    "asker", and thereby nothing to reverse.

    Not that it can't be an interesting question, it's just a
    different issue.

    I'd feel a lot more comfortable asking a man out on date, than I would
    a woman.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Actually, it might be interesting to hear from women who've asked other
    women out and women who've asked both men and women out to see if
    what's hard about is that it's a woman doing the asking or that it's a
    man being asked.
    
    I think that just about every romantic relationship of mine emerged
    from a friendship, so I've never really had to face that awful task of
    calling for a date -- I've had more trouble with the question: so are
    we on a date now, or is this two friends at a movie, and am I the only
    one feeling romantic?  (but I guess that's a different topic.)
    
    Justine
                                                                  

    I've asked quite a few men out, and it's always hard, but if someone
    strikes me as a person whom I'd like to get to know, I'd much rather
    take the chance of being rejected than letting him slip through my
    fingers because I'm a coward.  
    
    As far as strangers in a bar, if I spot someone whom I'm really really
    physically attracted to I normally ask the waiter/waitress to deliver
    him a drink on my tab and then let it go from there.  I've offered
    the fact that I'm interested and if he's also interested he knows where
    the drink came from.  I've found that this works very well and it
    doesn't put anyone in an ackward position.
    
    I still enjoy being asked out more though, it just kinda flatters me
    still.
    
    Kel
    

    When I asked men out, it was always someone I had been friendly
    with, and I it was to a specific event; (for example I had tix for
    a concert).  The most uncomfortable time I asked a man out was asking my
    ex-husband to go to a play with me. The woman I was supposed
    to go with was in one of her snitty moods and decided not to go;
    I knew Danny would want to see the play, so I asked.
    (He said yes BTW, I think he felt bad for me.)

    I found it much more difficult the first time I asked a woman out.
    I had met her at a party, and we said "we must get together sometimes".
    I was so nervous that I almost hung up when she answered,
    and ended up fumbling over my words. At that time, I had never asked
    anyone out I that I really didn't know (plus I had been married
    for 7 yrs and had not been in the dating mode for a while). I think
    for me, that was why I was so nervous, not knowing what to expect
    from the person.
    
    I met Yvonne, my current SO, through a personal ad.  But that's
    a whole other topic!
    
    Linda

RE:         <<< Note 633.8 by BSS::VANFLEET "closely resembling light" >>>
                      -< has anybody else run into this? >-

   > 
   > I don't mind doing the asking too mucH but I find that it sets a
   > precedent for relationships that I definitely feel uncomfortable with. 
   > After having asked for the first date I seem to be expected to control
   > all of the other aspects of the relationship too...where to go, what we
   > do.  I mean, I like leading occasionally but it gets boring as a steady
   > diet!
    
I can really relate to this (as I'm sure a lot of other men can as
well).

john

    seconded

    third...

    Having asked out both men and women...
    
    It is just as hard for me to ask a woman out as a man.  It isn't the
    role reversal I am afraid of, or being threatening to him, or whatever,
    it is fear of rejection, of being laughed at, of appearing desperate. 
    And for that fear, it doesn't matter the sex of the one being asked.
    
    However, I will say it get's easier with practice.
    
    D!