Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    California's higher. I think New York's close. And it probably all
    has to do with the sheer density of autos in a given area. I'd
    love to know what to do about it, but I think the insurance co's
    quite frankly have us by the short-and-curlies.
    
    --DE_who_moved_from_Mass_to_Cal_and_is_poorer
    

    Actually, I think New York is higher than Mass.  My boyfriend's
    brother lives in New York but has his car registered and insured
    in Massachusetts because it's cheaper for him to do it that way.
    
    Lori B.

    there is very considerable variation in the insurance rates in Mass.
    depending on where the car is garaged.
    
    e.g. much more expensive in Boston than in -say- North Adams -a
    rural town near the Vt-NY border
    

    Go to a local glass shop and ask about auto etching. The insurance
    companies have lead folks to believe that the only way you can qualify
    for the discount is with a LoJack, but it you have your glass etched
    with a registered, tracable number you will still get the discount. I
    had it done during my lunch hour. It cost $25 and took less than 10
    minutes. 
    
    Deb

    The only cars that need the anti-theft device are those on a certain
    list that the auto insurers have.  All the cars on the list are  worth
    more than $17000.  If your car isn't worth that much it won't be on the
    list.
    
    And BTW, when I moved from Newton (pop. 90000) to where I live now
    (pop. <3500) my insurance went down by $11 (about 1%).  My renters
    insurance went UP by $70.  Something about the fire hydrants being too
    far apart.  Now, there's a scam.
    
    Lisa

    your experience surprised me Lisa (at first)
    Then I wondered whether perhaps -in spite of size- that Newton is
    considered much more of a 'bedroom community' than say Cambridge and
    that the rates are already fairly low?

Taken from the net.. REK

That if you own a car newer than model year 1986 (i.e. 1987 or newer) and
you do not presently have any sort of anti-theft device on it AND your car
is registered in Massachusetts, AND the car is on the insurance companies'
"secret list", then you will be hit with a 50% surcharge on your
comprehensive insurance rate come Jan. 1st. I call it a secret list because
I just went down to find our if our cars were on this list and while
they were seemingly happy to check it for me, they would not let me
make a copy of it so I could share it with all of you.

To avoid this 50% surcharge now and forever more, you must one of the following:
1. Before Dec. 31st, if you get ANY sort of anti-theft device (including    
simply getting your VIN inscribed on your windshield which costs about $25, 
let the insurance company know and you will avoid the surcharge.            

2. If you wait until AFTER that date, you must get a much more expensive       
anti-theft device to avoid the surcharge. The woman at METPAY I spoke to       
said ones like "Z-lok, Chapman, or LOJACK, which generally cost $300 or more". 
This will be true of all new cars bought after Jan 1st as well so if you intend
to buy one that is on the list, include this in the final cost of your car.    

I don't know much about what specific devices will be required after Jan 1.
I suspect that the insurance companies intend to keep this list quiet until
then so that it will become much more expensive to avoid this surcharge on
existing vehicles and they will make heaps of money.

I do have an ad on my desk from the Globe for one of the companies that
does windshield inscriptions for $25 for those interested. This ad initially
alerted me to this scam, but all the info in this message has been confirmed
with Metpay.

Once more,  Mikey D. and the Mass. Auto Insurance Monopoly can
stick it to you...

Mitch

    
>1. Before Dec. 31st, if you get ANY sort of anti-theft device (including    
>simply getting your VIN inscribed on your windshield which costs about $25, 
>let the insurance company know and you will avoid the surcharge.            
    
    Do you know if this *must* be done by an "authorized' company or is the
    mere presence of the VIN inscribed on your windshield acceptable?  IE;
    I own engraving equipment and have the necessary skills to do this
    myself - do you know if the insurance companies find this acceptable?
    Or do I really have to find a company and waste $25??
    
    /Rita_who's_car_is_*STILL*_in_the_shop_and_may_not_be_*BACK*_by_Dec31!
    
    
    

        <<< UPSAR::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MASSACHUSETTS.NOTE;2 >>>
                  -< Welcome to the MASSACHUSETTS Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 703.13             Imminent Auto Insurance Rip-Off?                13 of 21
CARTUN::DWESSELS "Today is the 1st day of the rest" 153 lines  29-AUG-1990 16:55
                         -< List received from METPAY >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here's a longer version, copied from the hardcopy article.  I noticed
    that many time, '89 models are excluded from the list - don't know if 
    they are less a target, or if the list is incomplete...
    
    dlw
    
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
              The state's list of high-priced cars prone to theft
                           as published in the Globe

Alfa Romeo Milano Gold - 1987, '88, '89;  Platinum - '87, '88, '89;  Verde - 
'88, '89; 

Austin Rover Sterling 825S - '87, '88; 825SL - '87, '88

BMW 325 - '87, '88; 528e - '87, '88; 635csi - '87, '88, '89; 325i - '87, '88, 
'89, '90, '91; 325is - '87, '88; 325ix (?-blurred copy) - '88, '89, '90, '91; 
535i - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; 525i - '90, '91; 735i - '87, '88, '90, '91; 
750il - '88, '90, '91; 735il - '90, '91

Chrysler LeBaron CPE - '87, '88; (135 Turbo, 153 CID) - '87, '88; Conv. (153 
CID) - '87, '88; Conv. (153 CID, Turbo) - '87, '88, '90, '91; LeBaron Premium 
CPE - '90, '91; Conv. - '89, '90, '91; LeBaron GT CPE - '90, '91; Conv. - '90, 
'91; LeBaron GTC CPE - '89, '90, '91; Conv. - '89, '90, '91; 
Conquest Lft 2 Dr. - '87, '88; New Yorker Sed. 4 Dr. - '88; Fifth Avenue Sed. 4 
Dr. - '88; TC Conv. - '89, '90, '91; CPE - '90, '91; Conquest TSI Lft 2Dr. - 
'89; Imperial Sed. 4 Dr. - '90, '91; Imperial Sed. 4 Dr. - '90, '91; Town & 
Country Wagon - '90, '91; New Yorker Fifth Avenue Sed. 4 Dr. - '90, '91; 

Dodge Daytona Pacifica Hchbk 2 Dr. - '88; Lancer ES Spt Sed 5 Dr. Turbo - '88; 

Ferrari Mondial - '87, '88, '90, '91; 328 - '87; 328 - '88; 328GTB - '88; 
328GTS - '88; 328GTB - '89; 328GTS - '88; 328GTB Conv. - '89

Ford Mustang LX Conv. - '90, '91; Conv (302 CID) - '87, '88, '89; Mustang GT 
Conv. - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; 
Thunderbird Cpe (Turbo 140 CID) - '87; Thunderbird Sport Sed. 2 Dr. - '87, '88; 
Thunderbird LX Sed. 2 Dr. - '87, '88, '90, '91; Thunderbird Turbo Cpe CPE - 
'88; Thunderbird Super Cpe CPE - '89, '90, '91;
Probe GT Hchbk 2 Dr. - '90, '91;
Ford-Mercury Cougar XR-7 CPE - '87, '88; Sed. 2 Dr. - '89, '90, '91; Cougar LS 
CPE (302 CID) - '88; Sed. 2 Dr. - '90, '91;

Lincoln Continental - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; Lincoln Continental Givenchy - 
'87; Lincoln Continental Executive - '90, '91; Lincoln Continental Signature - 
'88, '89, '90, '91; 
Lincoln Mark VII - '87; Lincoln Mark VII Blass - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; 
Lincoln Mark VII LSC - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; 
Lincoln Town Car - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; Lincoln Town Car Signature - '87, 
'88, '89, '90, '91; Lincoln Town Car Cartier - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91;

Mercury/Merker XR4Ti - '87, '88, '89; Mercury/Merker Scorpio - '88, '89; 

General Motors Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale Brougham CPE - '87, '88; SED 4 Dr. - 
'87; Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale CPE - '88; 
Oldsmobile 98 Regency - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; Oldsmobile 98 Regency Brougham 
CPE - '87; SED 4 Dr. - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; 
Oldsmobile Toronado Brougham - '87; Oldsmobile Toronado - '88, '89, '90, '91; 
Oldsmobile Toronado Troleo - '88, '89, '90, '91; 

Pontiac Bonneville LE - '87, '90, '91; Pontiac Bonneville SE - '88, '90, '91; 
Pontiac Bonneville SSE - '88, '89, '90, '91; 
Pontiac Grand Prix CPE (305 CID) - '87; Pontiac Grand Prix LE - '87; Pontiac 
Grand Prix Brougham - '87; Pontiac Grand Prix SE - '88; Pontiac Grand Prix Se 
CPE (191 CID Turbo) - '89; CPE - '90, '91; Pontiac Grand Prix Ste - '90, '91; 
Pontiac Grand Prix Turbo - '90, '91; 
Pontiac Firebird Trans AM CPE (350 CID) - '87, '88, '89; Coupe - '88; CPE (305 
CID) - '88, '89; Pontiac Firebird Formula Hchbk 2 Dr. - '90, '91;

Buick Electra Estate Wagon - '87, '88, '89; Buick Electra Limited - '87, '88, 
'89, '90, '91; Buick Electra Park Avenue Coupe - '87; Sedan 4 Door - '87, '88, 
'89, '90, '91; buick electra T-Type = '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; Buick Electra 
Ultra - '89; Buick Electra Park Avenue Ultra - '90, '91; Buick Estate Wagon - 
'90, '91; 
Buick Lesabre - '88, '89, '90, '91; Buick Lesabre Custom - '88, '89, '90, '91; 
Buick Lesabre Limited - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; Buick Lesabre Estate Wagon - 
'87, '88, '89; 
Buick Regal 231 CID Turbo - '87; Buick Regal Limited Coupe 231 CID Turbo - '87, 
'90, '91; Coupe 191 CID - '90, '91; Buick Regal Custom Coupe - '90, '91; 
Buick Reatta - '88, '89, '90, '91; Buick Riviera - '87; Buick riviera Luxury - 
'88, '89, '90, '91; 

Cadillac Deville Coupe - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; Sedan 4 Door - '87, '88, '89,  
'90, '91; Cadillac Eldorado - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; Cadillac Allante-Sport 
CPE - '87, '88, '89; Cadillac Allante-Conv/Hdtp - '90, '91; Cadillac 
Allante-Conv - '90, '91; Cadillac Seville - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; Cadillac 
Seville Sts. - '90, '91; 

Chevrolet Corvette Hchbk 2 Dr. - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; Conv. - '87, '88, 
'89, '90, '91; 
Chevrolet Camaro Sport Coupe Conv - '87, '88, '89; CPE - '89; Chevrolet Camaro 
Z28 Conv. - '87; Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z CPE - '88, '89; Conv. - '88, '89, '90, 
'91; Hchbk 2 Dr. - '90, '91; Chevrolet Camaro RS Conv. - '90, '91; 
Chevrolet Lumina Apv Wagon - '90, '91;

Olds Cutlass Supreme Classic Brougham - '88; Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme 
International CPE - '88, '89, '90, '91; SED 4 Dr. - '90, '91; Oldsmobile 
Cutlass Supreme CPE (191 CID) - '90, '91; Sed. 4 Dr. - '90, '91; Oldsmobile 
cutlass Supreme SL - '90, '91;

Honda Acura Legend CPE - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; SED 4 Dr. - '87, '88, '89, 
'90, '91; Acura Legend L SED 4 Dr. - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; CPE - '88, '90, 
'91; Acura Legend LC CPE - '89; SED 4 Dr. - '89; Acura Legend LL CPE - '89; SED 
4 Dr. - '89; Acura Legend LS CPE - '89, '90, '91; SED 4 Dr. - '89, '90, '91;

Isuzu Impulse Hchbk 2 Dr. - '88, '89; (122 CID Turbo) - '88, '89;

Jaguar XJ6 - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; XJ6-VDP - '87; 

Maserati Biturbo - '87; Biturbo 425 - '87; Biturbo Spyder - '87;

Mazda 929 - '88, '89, '90, '91; 929S - '90, '91; 626GT - '90, '91; RX-7 Spt Cpe 
(Turbo) - '87, '88, '89; Sport Coupe - '89, '90, '91; CPE 2 + 2 - '87, '88, 
'89, '90, '91; Conv. - '88, '89; RX-7 CV - '90, '91; RX-7 XT - '90, '91; MX-6 
CPE (Turbo) - '88; MX-6 CT - '90, '91;

Mercedes-Benz 190 - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; 260 - '87, '88, '89; 300 - '87, 
'88, '89, '90, '91; 420 - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; 500 - '90, '91; 560 - '87, 
'88, '89, '90, '91;

Mitsubishi Galant GSX - '90, '91; Galant Sigma - '88; Eclipse GSX - '90, '91; 
Starion - '87; Starion ESI-R - '89; 

Nissan Maxima - '87, '88, '90, '91; 300 ZX - '87, '88, '90, '91; 

Infiniti M30 - '90, '91; Infiniti Q45 - '90, '91; 

Peugeot 405 DL Wag. 4 Dr. - '90, '91; 405 S - '89, '90, '91; 405 Mi16 - '89, 
'90, '91;

Porsche 924S - '87, '88; 911 Carrera - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; 928 - '90, '91; 
928S - '87; 928S4 - '88, '89;

Saab 900 - '88, '89, '90, '91; 900S - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; 900 Turbo - '87, 
'88, '89, '90, '91; 900 Turbo SPG - '89, '90, '91; 9000S - '87, '88, '89, '90, 
'91; 9000 Turbo - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; 9000 CD - '89, '90, '91;

Subaru XT CPE 72 CID and 108 CID 4WD - '87; XT6 72 CID and 108 CID 4WD - '88; 
CPE (163 CID) - '88, '89;

Toyota Celica SPT CPE GTS - '87, '88, '90, '91; Lft Bk Gts - '87, '88; Conv. - 
'87, '88, '89; Lft Bk Gte - '88, '89; Lft Bk All-Trac - '90, '91; MR2 SPT CPE - 
'88; SPT CPE (T-bar) - '87, '88, '89; Supra - '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; Cressida 
- '87, '88, '89, '90, '91; Camry Wagon 5 Dr. (DIX) - '87; Wagon 5 Dr. (LE) - 
'87, '88, '90, '91; SED 4 Dr. - '88, '90, '91; (All Trac. Sedan LE) - '88, '90, 
'91; SED 4 Dr. LE - '90, '91; 

Lexus ES 250 - '90, '91; Lexus LS400 - '90, '91; 

Volkswagon Audi Quattro - '87; Audi 5000S - '87, '88; Cabriolet - '88, '90, 
'91; Scirocco - '88; Audi 100 - '89, '90, '91; Audi 200 - '89, '90, '91; 
Corrado - '90, '91; Audi Quattro CPE - '90, '91.

re .9:

About a month ago, my insurance agent sent me a note stating that my car was 
on the theft list and that they had etching kits.  For $10, come in and
they give you an etching kit from a company called Theft Alert.  You use
acid and a template to etch the number on your car windows, and then the agent
comes out to check to see if it was done.  The number had to be on each
window.

    RE: .5
    >The only cars that need the anti-theft device are those on a certain
    >list that the auto insurers have.  All the cars on the list are  worth
    >more than $17000.  If your car isn't worth that much it won't be on the
    >list.
    
    My 87 Mustang LX (non-convertable) is on the list according to METPAY,
    and it cost "only" cost just under $10,000 brand new.
    
    It would be real nice if the insurance people could just give a whole,
    honest answer when asked a simple question. I also tries to get a copy
    of "the list" from METPAY and was told that they couldn't give it out.
    Makes me think that they are trying to hide something or pull a fast
    one (or both).
    
    As for Rita's question, the glass etching is only part of it; to get
    the discount you must have the etching registered in some database.
    (Talk about a racket).
    
    Deb

    Re .0:                    
    
    I can think of a few reasons.
    
    1. Many of our "major highways" are one lane each way. It's dangerous
       (and considered uncivilized) to drive under 10 mph over the speed limit.
       The cops don't seem to be too bothered about speeding.
    
    2. There are no laws requiring snow tires during hazardous
       winter weather. I am at a loss to understand how even native
       New Englanders seem to get by on completely bald "all-season" 
       (ha ha) tires regardless of road conditions.
    
    3. Too many of those goddamned furriners driving like
       they own the road.. :-)
    
    Ganesh.

    
    
    >Subaru XT CPE 72 CID and 108 CID 4WD - '87; XT6 72 CID and 108 CID 4WD
    >- '88;CPE (163 CID) - '88, '89;
    
    
    Can someone interpret this for me?  I called METPAY and the guy told
    me, "From what I can TELL the '87 version of your car is on the list,
    but the '88 version is not.  Are you SURE you're driving an '88?"
    
    That leaves me feeling OH SO SECURE, ya know?
    
    What is CID?  My car is an XT Coupe 4WD '88.  A 4 cylinder.  Does CID
    stand for something having to do with horsepower?  
    
    kath

    CID (I believe) is an abbreviation for cubic inch displacement;
    the various numbers stand for engine sizes.
    
    					andrew

    I believe that our insurance rates are a direct result of govt control
    of the rates and the way they regulate the industry.  In most states
    insurance companies are free to set their rates so you can shop for
    rates.  In most states insurance companies can charge people with poor
    driving records substantially more than the average driver.  In most
    states insurance companies can refuse to insure very high risk
    drivers. (In NY they are insured under a state high risk pool -- or at
    least they used to be.)  In Mass. the state sets the rates and, except
    that safe drivers get a small discount, there is no differentiation for
    driving records.  Surcharges for tickets and accidents go to the state,
    not the insurance company.  Our so-called no fault insurance is really
    a bastardized system with ample loopholes for getting around the no
    fault scheme so you can sue.  
    
    As to the cost of comprehensive insurance -- the fact we're perenially
    the top -- or close to it -- for car theft in the nation explains a
    good deal of those rates. 
                               

    CID is cubic inches of displacement.  Since the Subaru's owner's manual
    probably state the size in liters, here are the conversions:
    
    72 = 1.2 l
    108 = 1.8 l
    163 = 2.7 l
    
    Lucky me, my car is not on the list (no matter what year).
    
    Rich

    In other states it can be determined by the area.  Miami, Fla is
    incredibly high
    
    Cathy

    In Massachusetts the town makes a difference, too. Fortunately,
    Sterling and Lancaster aren't the worst places. And I don't own
    anything anybody wants to steal.
    
    ....Bob

    Where you live and WHAT HIGHWAYS go through your town make a big 
    difference.  A friend of mine moved from Marlboro (High Rates) to
    Tyngsboro.  She foolishly assumed that her rates would go down.
    WRONG!!!  Rates were just as high.  She called her insurance company
    and was told that because Rte 3 goes through Tyngsboro, the rate
    was high.  Seems EACH TOWN that, for instance, Rte 3 goes through
    gets assessed for **ALL** the accidents that occur on that highway.
    
    To lower rates, find a small town that a major highway DOESN'T go
    through.
    
    L
    

    re .20 >find a small town
    
    Sure, but the commute from Middlefield is a (deleted) in winter :-)

    
    More of a variable than what town you live in is what type
    of coverage you choose.
    
    So you just *had* to have that fancy, schmancy, brand new $30K
    car, huh?  Well, the collision for that is *big bucks*.  (Not like
    for my $7500 car).  Oh, and what's your deductible?  The higher
    it is, the cheaper the insurance.
    
    And do you choose basic coverage (not a non-sensical option for
    someone who owns nothing, because no one will sue you for nothing)
    or the 'recommended' 100K/300K?
    
    And do you choose the uninsured/underinsured options?  Well,
    if you work for Digital (and the rest of your family is covered
    under Digital plans), you just *don't* need it, no matter what
    your insurance agent tells you!
    
    My auto insurance costs just under $500 a year (yes, *this* year).
    
    
    

    My insurance this year approaches 1/5 the value of my car.
    (The excise tax people say my car is worth about $7500).
    
    But I do have the extras, like the 100K liability or something like
    that.  I thought once about dropping this, but I figured that I've
    managed to save up a few thousand dollars, and I don't want some
    money-hungry butthead lawyer taking what is mine.  I could see dropping
    this if you have savings of less than $1000 dollars and you don't own a
    house. It makes me angry that I have to pay so much money because of
    the threat of lawsuits, but I don't feel like I have a choice in this
    day and age where someone can get $50 million dollars because some other
    person sneezed on them and gave them a cold.
    
    
    And what is the underinsured thingy?  Why would DEC take care of this?
    
    BTW, out of the $1200 a year I pay, only $300 of that is collision.
    
    Lisa
    

    
    re -1:
    
    I believe that the point of uninsured/underinsured drivers insurance
    coverage is to cover *your own* medical bills in the event that you
    are hit and injured by someone else and it is *not* your fault, but
    the other person's *and* the other person is an uninsured/underinsured
    driver.
    
    You have medical insurance through Digital (Hancock plan or an HMO), and,
    of course, are subject to whatever deductibles are required by your
    plan (and they usually won't break you).  The best uninsured/underinsured
    will do for you is pay that deductible because your medical bills are
    taken care of by your plan.
    
    I saved ~$100 a year by dropping this coverage.
    
    The only problem that might enter into it is if you are ever driving
    with a passenger in your car who does not have medical insurance and
    you are hit by someone whose fault it is *and* who is under/uninsured
    and your passenger is injured.  But in this case, it's not your fault,
    and (theoretically) that person cannot come after you.
    
    Look at your collison coverage too.  If you can increase your
    deductible, do it.  Mine is around $2000.  In essence, I am self-insuring
    myself for that amount.  Not everyone's comfortable with that, however.
    
    And skip the section about towing insurance (they still have this,
    right?).  That's a true waste of money, IMHO.
    

    In Massachusetts, your insurance covers injuries to passengers in your
    vehicle regardless of fault -- our version of no fault.  If they 
    sustain injuries which exceed some criteria in the no fualt law, then
    the passenger can sue the driver found to be at fault.