Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    Me.
    
    REK

    The perfect man isn't threatened by what others think of him, or of
    themselves ;)
    
    

    sounds like me, it does...
    
    Ad :-)

    Here, I'll try to off set those percentages.  ;)  
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    The perfect man will always vary, just like milage.
    
    Perfection is not made up in looks.  The package may be pretty,
    but the contents may not.
    
    Perfection is not made up in intelligence.  Smarts doesn't mean
    anything until the intelligence is applied in an intelligent manner.
    
    A perfect man is one who realizes and overcomes (or overshadows)
    his imperfections, who values his partner as much as he values himself,
    who is a complete human being, with feelings, thoughts, emotions
    and humor all his own and still compatible.  He can been strikingly 
    good looking, or he can be plain, but the perfect man will always 
    be attractive in the eyes of his beholder.  
    
    Then again, maybe not.  :)
    
    ---kim
                                                                        

    The long unrecognized and legendary "domestic partner"
    
    imagine! a domesticated man! no dental floss uggies on the mirror,
    white wine always in stock in the 'fridge, no huge sneakers in the
    middle of the living room.
    
    ...and he turns into a Bel Canto artichoke pizza at 3:00 am.   ;^)
    
         Margaret 

	atlant (shh, don't tell him, just let him think he has to work on it!)

	=Debi

    To me, the perfect man, is someone who is open with ideas and emotions. 
    Who is able to understand all the responsibilities of the home and
    manage their share (without asking).  He is responsible in whatever 
    lifestyle/job he chooses (he cares and does the best he can).  He is 
    sensitive enough to understand a situation and rise to the occasion 
    (whatever that is).  He takes pride in himself.  He is able to discuss
    a problem and willing to come to an agreeable decision.  He is a giving 
    sexual partner.  
    
    I guess thats it for me!   Judy
    
    
      

    The PERFECT MAN????  Let's see.....
    
    Brains....= Einstein
    Face....= Kevin Costner or Tom Selleck or Tom Cruise or....or...or...
    Body.... = Sly Stallone
    Personality... = Robin Williams
    Money.... = Donald Trump
    
    Anyone else care to add to this PERFECT male?
                                     #;-)
    
    -Dotti.   

    May need to revise the "money" category.  Looks as if old Donnie may
    not be among the fabulously wealthy much longer.  Is it just a
    coincidence that the financial bubble started to burst right after his
    wife sued for divorce??????
    
    The perfect man is consummately secure, intelligent, financially
    stable,looks great in (and out of) jeans and looks like Sam Elliott.
    
    Polly
                          

I don't know all the specifics, but I do know...


He's got a 6 inch long prehensile tongue.

    Ooooh, you macho slut!  ;-)

	For those that know me and for those that don't, my response
	follows the form feed.


	


	The perfect man is a woman 

	
	


	with different plumbing.


	_peggy

		(-)
		 |
			She made me do it.

    Re:13 mine is only 4 1/2.... 
    
    Re:15 Now that made me chuckle.......
    
    REK

    RE: .13
                Can it have a "fork" in it?????
    
    Dave

    Since this is "lite" --
    
    Keeps house like Mom
    Cooks like Julia Child
    Gives marvelous backrubs -- for as long as I'm interested
    Brings me flowers and chocolates frequently
    Knows all the interesting, out-of-the-way, romantic spots
    Packs a gourmet picnic basket
    Enjoys the same flicks, musical groups, and plays as I do
    Is a fascinating conversationalist -- on any topic
    Thinks I'm wonderful
    And knows how and when to arouse my passion.
    
    Karen
         

    Looks = Is tall, dark, muscular, handsome, has great a smile
    that makes me melt.
    
    Personality = funny, witty, talkative, sharing, caring, imaginative,
    adventurous,
    
    MISC = cooks and cleans!!!!!! 
    
    Isn't it fun to DREAM?  

    
    I do windows. Does that count?
    
    
    						Hank

    My husband!!!
    
    Sandie

    Peggy, you're incorrigible.
    
    Never lose it! ;-)
    
    DougO
                                                > She made me do it.
                                                    I know she did.

the perfect man is pretty self-centered; i never have to worry that 
   he will decline to yelp if i step on his toes.
he's grown up and takes care of himself.
he assumes that i'm grown up and take care of myself.
he knows we all make our own choices, and that taking advice is a 
   choice, as are sharing and accommodating a loved one.
he lends a hand when asked, and leaves me alone when i don't want 
   help.
he doesn't lend a hand without letting me know whether or not it's a 
   gargantuan chore (ie. if i'll "owe points" for the favor, i know in
   advance).
he has his own "rules", understands my "rules" and understands 
   negotiation over "rules".
he has a (very) few absolutes.
he lets me know which of his "rules" are absolutes.
he doesn't like sex without some feeling of connection with his 
   partner.
he loses his temper.
he talks quietly and moves slowly when he loses his temper.
he notices that i cry when i'm mad and i stop eating when i'm sad.
he would be sad at losing his loved one but could go on without her.
his confidence in himself is only slightly stronger than his 
   confidence in me; both are very, very high.
he is impulsive, occasionally flighty, demonstrative.
he is comfortable in his body, likes his own moles, enjoys sensation, 
   knows he looks good, and has no discomfort when dealing with the 
   normal burps, farts, secretions, aromas that come with being human.
physically, he has those bulky muscles that are so different than
   women's muscles, big veins, big hands. 
he can dance - ballroom, contra, rock, everything - and he gives a 
   lead i can follow.
he is not lost in "higher society", and never wonders which fork to 
   use.

    How about I leave the doggie door open this weekend and report back on
    any findings this Monday?  If I don't report back, wish me luck in my
    new galaxy.
    
    Jeff Goldblum, maybe?
    
       Margaret (a very spaced Earth Girl)

    re .11
    
    Will you settle for 4 out of 5 if he can give a GREAT massage??
    (;^)
    
    fred();

    The perfect man can get me hot just thinking about him. *Everything*
    else is negotiable. And as the supreme court says "I'll know it when I
    see it". ;*) liesl

    and I thought the primary requirement was that he leave the toilet seat
    down....
    
    %^).
    
    -roger
    

    The perfect man?  The man my mom married!...

    The perfect man for me?

    Tall, slender, but not too slender, at least a masters degree,
    preferably a doctorates, independently wealthy, loving, tender, and
    understanding, one who drives a corvette in the summer, a BMW in the
    winter, someone who will let me win on the racquetball court on
    occasion, deep blue/green eyes, that say "I love you", one that can be
    a father, but prefers to not have anymore kids...  knows how to handle
    a twin engine plane... can argue law in and out with me, one with a
    religious background, a southern gentleman who insists on ALWAYS
    paying for dates... someone who can listen to jazz, classical or rock
    and have an understanding of all three, someone who owns his own Tux,
    and has a place in society to wear it - knows a good play from a
    mediocre one, and can recite Shakespeare with me... has excellent
    hands, is an accomplished piano player, and knows how to use those
    hands on something BESIDES the piano :-)... one that knows how
    to commit, and one that ALWAYS follows up on his word, no matter how
    trivial it may seem to be...

    Know what - its a good thing the world isn't perfect..  I don't think I
    could EVER find "THE" perfect man - its a good thing I'm not looking
    for him :-)

    
    I own a tux t-shirt, know classical music when I hear it 
    (sounds like a fiddle, played slow, right?), and enjoy cutting
    off Beemers at high speed on Hwy 17...
    

    re. several lengthy lists - I have the answer to your dreams -
    
    polygamy!

>    re. several lengthy lists - I have the answer to your dreams -
>    
>    polygamy!


More specifically, polyandry.


(I had thought that "polygamy" specifically meant multiple wives, and 
 "polyandry" multiple husbands, but a trip to the dictionary shows the 
 latter true but the former false; "polygamy" can mean either. Learn 
 something new every day.)

    No, no, no, Mike!  You've confused two kinds of men.  Men like
    Priapus, and men like <name withheld> who can breathe through
    their ears.
    
    						Ann B.

    re:  .11 CSC31::HADDOCK
    
    	you betcha!!
    
    -Dotti.

    
    Hmm.
    
    Body of a 17 year old.
    Endurance of a 20 year old.
    Patience of a 70 year old.
    Wisdom of a 70 year old.
    Exuberance of an 8 year old.
    Intelligence equivalent to mine.
    Loyalty of my cat.
    Poor eyesight.  (ha ha)
    Makes no more money than I do.
    Pays for 1/2 of everything.
    Doesn't want children.
    DOESN'T HAVE SOME SORT OF A FIXATION WITH THE REMOTE CONTROL!!!
    Doesn't mind if I fix things around the house.
    Doesn't mind if I mow the lawn or chop trees.
    Loves me more than his job.
    Loves himself.
    Fights, verbally.  (doesn't sit and steam)
    And 
    has the flexiblity of an 8 year old
    the creativity of an artist
    

    RE: .31
    
    Mike, 
    
    Why do you think some women prefer men who have long hair?
    
       :^)
    
         Margaret

His body is lean,
Around the house he is handy.
He has sexual confidence,
And is always randy.

He's got fabulous legs,
Cuz I like to look,
And when I'm not in the mood,
He's willing to cook.

He's learned and deep,
He'll wish on a star,
He's steady and strong,
And he drives a nice car.

Genuine love,
He never would feign,
And his fridge is well stocked
With lots of champagne.

He's very well traveled,
Has seen many lands.
He's a consummate user,
Of his sensuous hands.

Lighthearted by day,
And serious by night,
He's totally absorbing,
When he turns out the light.

He says I'm too skinny,
Whenver we dine,
And he's happy to know,
That I know that he's mine!
    

    a guy with a sense of humour,
    smiling eyes,
    a quick wit,
    
    
    and  who doesn't nag.
        

    to keep it lite...
    
    Kevin Costner or any of his lookalikes...
    
    ..dale

    The perfect man?
    
    Not me.
    
    Charles

    
    
    	My hubby... =)
    
    	

    6'3"
    gray/blue eyes
    blond/brown thick soft straight hair (that you can mess up)
    slender but with well-defined muscles in all the right places (I love
    strong arms)
    solid but not bulky
    a little soft around the middle which is good for cuddling
    warm (temperature wise and personality)
    idiotic
    ticklish
    confident
    sense of humour
    likes the silly side of life but can be serious when necessary
    not toooo perfect so I don't get bored, I like a good fight.
    
    		Holly
    		with the beating heart and trembling fingers
    

    
    P.S. Forgot something.............hairy legs and a fuzz on the chest!

    I got the idiotic, ticklish and hairy legs. Settle for 15 % ?

- be able to pitch a tent and cook over an open flame
- idea of camping is *not* going to a Holiday Inn
- must like sunsets
- leaves me alone when I wanna be left alone
- doesn't tell me what he *thinks* I wanna hear
- sense of humor
- beard and hairy chest
- likes to snuggle
- likes to travel
- knows how to make coffee
- likes the Celtics, Red Sox, NY Giants and beer
- looks like Bubba (Alan Autry) on "In the Heat of the Night"
- knows how to load a dishwasher
- able to leap tall buildings in a single bound :-)

Jenna

    
    He's pretty good looking, 5'10" - 6' tall, with a wiry sort of
    strength.  His skin is a bit swarthy, but not too dark.  He is
    intelligent, creative, generally draws/paints or writes some sort of
    prose/poetic/interactive fiction, plays some sort of instrument or has
    a strong interest in music, is fairly athletic in at least one
    individual sport, has a good sense of humor and knows the appropriate
    delivery of puns, is interested in science or engineering or computers
    to some degree, and loves to hack life.  He has eyes that would melt your
    soul at 20', he isn't compulsive about anything, he's honest,
    trustworthy, reliable, and can support himself financially with enough
    money left over to allow him to give a little.  He knows how to
    enjoy life and really get in there and PLAY sometimes - even if it
    means looking silly.  He is aware of what I enjoy, and takes that into
    account as much as I take into account his wishes.  He is not
    high-strung, stuck or stuffy, and he knows where his strengths 
    and weaknesses are. 
    
    -Jody
    

    re .50 Jody:
    
    So your idea of the perfect man is my husband?!  Hmmph.  Stay away,
    he's mine.  Your description fits him almost perfectly - except the
    drawing & painting part.  :-)
    

    Operating on the assumption that the antithesis of what comedians
    claim men don't do represents the attributes of the ideal man...
    
    One comedienne said that men don't replace the empty toilet roll.
    ("All you have to do is put the stick in the hole.  I know you can
    do it; I've seen you.")
    
    The ideal man replaces the toilet roll.  Even if there are as many
    as two squares left on the roll.
    
    Many comedians say that men won't ask for directions.  ("A man will
    drive across the entire state of Kansas rather than...")
    
    The ideal man will stop to ask for directions.  He may try to
    persuade you, his passanger, to ask the actual questions, but if
    he does that, he will be frank with you.  "I'd feel like such an
    idiot."/"I just don't want to do it myself."
    
    The ideal man can also read a map.  Or, if he can't read maps,
    he will clearly and unambiguously state that he has trouble reading
    maps.  "I can't make head or tail of this."/"I never could make heads
    or tails of any map."
    
    							Ann B.

    Lite or not, I think it's time for a rerun of one of my better poems...
    
                              On Becoming a Man

    A man is not measured by feet and inches
    But by the greatness of his heart.
    He is not measured by strength of force
    But by strength of character.
    He cannot be weighed in pounds and ounces
    But by the love and compassion he holds for others.
    His might is not by force of arms;
    Rather, his power lies in his laughter and tears.
    His bravery is not in overwhelming others with violence-
    Crushing all obstacles, real or imagined.
    His courage is in the realization of his manhood
    And of not fearing for others to see him as he really is.
    
    Barb (2/79)
    
    To me, this is still the perfect man.

    Barb -
    
    That's beautiful.  I like it.
    
    
    For myself -
    
    I keep hearing the strains of "My White Knight" from The Music Man -
    "not a Lancelot, or an angel with wings, just someone to love me who is
    not afraid of a few nice things........more interested in me, than in
    himself, and more interested in *us*, than in me."
    
    And interested in some of the things that I am interested in, and in
    some things that he wants to share with me that I *don't* enjoy yet.
    
    And somewhere over 6', with broad, muscular shoulders..... :-)
    
    Alison

    A number of previous notes claimed that their husbands were perfect.
    
    What is perfect about them, or why are they perfect to you?
    
    Thanks, Judy 
    
    

    
    	re: .55
    	He's really the only man (other than relatives of course)
    	who loves me exactly the way I am.  I had gone out with too
    	many men who wanted to 'mold' me into their perfect woman.
    
    	That's the biggest reason.
    
    	Physically he isn't perfect.  He's almost the same height as
    	me which means I can very seldom wear heels when we're out,
    	he has a bit of a belly (at 23 that's not good!  =)  ).  
    	
    	The perfect man for me physically is Jon Bon Jovi.... =) 
    	Or Mel Gibson or.....
    

    I hate to say this, but there *is* and never will be :-} 
    ... a perfect man!
    
    :-)
    
    Tammi
    

I find this whole concept of perfect person scary!  What does that
mean?  Maybe folks aren't really serious about this?

In my view, none of us are perfect nor will we ever be.  We'll all at
different places and have different characteristics.

In terms of finding a mate, I'm trying to not carry around a lot of
ideas of what I want.  What does it mean to have a set of
characteristics.  If I meet someone who is not blond or not XXX, then
I have already predecided that I'm not going to be involved with that
person.  I wonder how many wonderful people I have missing this way?
If I do this, then I am no longer free to really be with that person.

Even evaluating people as potential romances (which I do all the
time) scares me a bit.  You know, the best times, the ones that I
really remember don't seem to involve too much list comparing and
evaluating.  It really seems to kill something for me I've noticed.

Have you ever been on date when what's really going on is that you are
comparing your lists of what you expect in the other person?  So all
the questions get sneakily asked like:  what college did you go to,
what do you like to do, etc.  I don't know, this type of situation has
never worked out for me.  Something seems to get killed in the
process.  I think it's my self-centeredness in just looked for someone
to match my list that kills it.  I think maybe a computer could do
this list matching for us.  Probally I wouldn't even have to be there.

But I wonder what really draws us to others?

I'd like to be open to everyone and see if my affection becomes
sexual if that is appropriate.  I have a long way to go.  I find it
difficult especially when my sexual needs block out my intuition,
feelings, and common sense and I end up with someone just to satisy
physical things.  I always feel lousy after such situations like I've
used the other person (even if it's a mutual using).  I find it very
difficult lately not to chase after my desires.  Rarely have I found
it rewarding.  What I have found rewarding and energizing is making a
deep connection and trying to help support someone else's life.

I wonder if true love can ever be present if my needs are foremost.  I
suppose you can have businessman's love.  I'll meet your needs if you
meet my needs.  But it seems like conflicts will eventually arise and
then I really see just what this love is.  It's not a part of myself I
feel that comfortable being with - just seeing how I am really
interesting in my needs in being with someone else.  Oh well, you have
to start with where you are at.  I think seeing it is 95% of the
battle.

I thought the response's were terrific the woman that said her husband
was perfect becuase he accepted her for what she was!!! ;-)

I do think there are some meta-charactertics that are helpful.

  o  Willingness to work things out when problems arise
  o  A basic outlook of supporting each other's lives and
     not just getting each other's needs met
  o  Honestly and a willingness to look at things in oneself
  o  To be a similar place in a developmental and spiritual sense (for
     a deep involvement anyway)

See, I am starting to make up a list.  I better stop now!!! ;-)

john

    
    is this the place to post "long pig" recipes?

    RE: -2 -  Maybe people aren't really serious about this question...
    
    I wasn't when I did .28 - this is a "lite" topic...  thats how I
    answered it...
    
    
    Gale

    re .59
    Remember the Curtis-Travolta movie, "Perfect" ? Where all
    the people were expending enormous amounts of time, energy,
    and money trying to be 'perfect'. Plastic surgery, breast implants,
    exercise, sexercise, anything to be 'perfect'. 'Cause if you weren't
    'perfect' nobody would love you. Seems to me this topic, though 
    intended to be 'lite', helps to reinforce the notion.
    

    This is a lite topic............................................
    
    
    So pleeeeeease "LIGHTEN Upp!!!!!!!!
    
    Me...Kate......Basenoter of this LITE string!
    
    Merci
    

	re: .59 (John Heffernan)         -< perfect? >-

	Thanks, John.  Interesting concepts presented:

	(businessman's love)  or 

	love through (supporting each other's lives) 

	Yes, this is a =lite= topic, but the serious spinoffs
	of =lite= topics can be very thought-provoking!!

						nancy b.

    There are lots of perfect men out there, but everyones idea of perfect
    is different.  No one, so far, has discribed my idea of a perfect man
    yet. To me the perfect man would be someone to share my life with,
    someone to walk beside me and not ahead of or behind me. He will think
    that I am perfect as I am and love me for who I am.  He will have a
    great sense of humor, be a non smoker, love to travel and be able to
    afford to do so. He will be intelligent and a good conversationalist.
    He will be willing to clean the house or cook a meal just because it
    has to be done.  He will love Christmas as much as I do, enjoy family
    get togethers and entertaining at home. Looks are not as important as
    good health and clean habits. Height--oh at least 5' but not more than
    6'8".  I would rather you have a little extra weight, I am positively
    turned off by 'skinny' or even just thin. I like "love handles".
    
    +pat+   

	"I guess I'm just doomed to spending my life looking for Mr. Right."

	"No, you meet Mr. Right about twice a month, you're doomed to spending
	your life looking for Mr. Perfect."

	"<various obscenities>"


	:-)

	-- Charles

    re .66, if she meets Mr. Right about twice a month, she must be
    about 18.  :-(
    
    Lorna
    

    There's a difference between what people consider perfect and what
    they're actually willing to settle for... :-) .... or even what
    they consider perfect and what they might fall in love with in the
    real world where nobody's perfect.
    
    A perfect man would:
    
    Look like either Matthew Broderick or like the 22 yr. old twin sons
    of the late Rick Nelson (Gunnar and Matthew who are about the most
    gorgeous examples of humanity I've ever seen)   (of course, they
    look absolutely *nothing* like Matthew Broderick, and in general
    Matthew Broderick looks nothing like what I say I like in men, which
    is long hair, beards, moustaches and an earring, and skinny, yet
    I think Matthew Broderick is the sexiest looking man in the world
    today...so it gets confusing)
    
    Sense of humor would be a combination of Woody Allen, Robin Williams
    and Billy Crystal all rolled into one.  (if I could have that I
    almost wouldn't care what he looked like, but it would be nice if
    he looked like Matthew Broderick)
    
    Brains and creativity of Woody Allen and Spike Lee combined.  
    
    Sharp dresser - sort of like Mick Jagger, or Rod Stewart.  (although
    it is unfortunate that it is not always appropriate to dress as
    tho doing a rock concert)
    
    The perfect man would not be fat and would not have hair on his
    back.
    
    He would love cats, be interested in collecting antiques, and would
    have an interest or talent in music, painting (art in general) or
    writing.  He would definitely like to read and discuss the same
    books as me (including poetry).  He would have a job that he enjoyed
    and earned enough money to live comfortably on, but would not be rich
    or ever want to be (since I don't believe in unlimited personal
    wealth).  He would have liberal political views and would support
    feminists views.  He would have no interest in guns or team sports.
     He would be interested in a long-term monogamous relationship with
    me.  He would have a lot of compassion for other people and animals.
     He would be very intelligent but not interested in computers. 
    He would be an interesting and witty conversationalist.  He would
    love sex and be crazy about me.   He would radiate the sex appeal
    of Bruce Springsteen in concert.  He would almost never lose his
    temper, and then only at other people.
    
    Lorna
    

    The perfect man would think of me often during the day.
    
    He would pick up little things to show me and/or give me that he knew I 
    was interested in or wanted.
    
    He would let me read the Sunday Globe to him.
    
    He would hike with me.
    
    He would like my family and friends.
    
    He would be interested in good nutrition and living a healthy life
    style, hopefully with more consistency then myself.
    
    He would like Monhegan Island.
    
    He would be a daydreamer.
    
    He would respect my faith.
    
    He would respect my politics.
    
    

    re .69 Umm, Joyce, is that 'Sunday Globe' part negotiable ?

    re .70 How about a compromise ... every other week? 
    
           I would not read the Herald to Howard Hessemen who I love 
           dearly and also lust for (blush).

    
    The perfect man...does not exist. But a man I would love...
    
    Is sure enough of himself and his identity, whether that is sexual or
    political or religious, to not be worried about mine.
    
    Is not afraid to cry or to rage and knows which times are appropraite
    for either.
    
    Is fully capable of existing without me, but chooses to make
    adjustments because he does not want to.
    
    Is not shy about expecting me to carry my 'half' of all family
    responsibilities, and to likewise shoulder his half.
    
    Is sensitive to silence, listens to the tales it tells and remembers
    what they meant.
    
    Is non-judgemental, stating his opposition in terms only of his
    opionion and not in terms of right and wrong.
    
    Is capable of liking me, even when he does not love me.
    
    Is, in the end, as imperfect as all the rest of us; but embraces that
    imperfection as prerequisite for humanity.
    
    I don't usually do maudlin...but 20 years ago I moved in with a man
    who actually *is* this a good 90% of the time. I am continually amazed
    at my own good fortune and his devotion.
    
    I tend to be a cynical bitch, but I would not change a hair on his
    head. I would be afraid that in trying to make him perfect, I would
    somehow break the spell; that he would realise that I am *not*, and
    leave to find someone who was.
    
    There was a note a bit ago...someone with a concern about 'perfect'.
    
    I agree this is a =lite= note. But, I do have a concern that if we harbor
    the remnants of sexism or elitism in our humor, that we have not truly
    escaped its bondage...And if we make =lite= of the all too prevalent
    notion in our society that to *be* beautiful one must meet *someone's*
    notion of what beautiful is [this week? your qualifications or mine?]
    we are in effect, stripping credance from our objection to it.
    
    I know [and have read with amusement and smiles] that the replies here
    are in no way meant to infer serious acceptance that one must meet
    someone else's requirements to be 'prefect', but I am enough of a bitch
    to at least point out the danger and agree with john...perfect is
    scary.
    
    hugs
    
    Melinda
    

    Re: .66 & .67
    
    > re .66, if she meets Mr. Right about twice a month, she must be
    > about 18.  :-(
    
    Umm, Lorna, it was a dirty trick and I did it on purpose. The quote is
    the punch line from a cartoon in "Bay Windows" (the speakers are gay
    men...) I was wondering if anyone would spot the reference. :-) In any
    case I had some fun. Check out the cartoon, it's pretty funny
    especially in the context of this note. I almost died laughing when I
    read it.
    
    	-- Charles
   

    re .73, oh, Charles, I don't get it.  Why is that funnier in relation
    to gay men?  What's Bay Windows?  Is that a gay magazine or something?
    
    Lorna
    

    It's a Boston-local lesbian and gay newspaper, pretty mainstream
    politically.  It can be picked up free (eg) in Harvard Square and the
    Center for Adult Ed.   It's quite different to GCN, imo.
    
    						=maggie

    Oh gee, the humor goes away when you have to explain it. It's something
    like this. The note is "describe the perfect man" and is lite. The
    notes seem to be all women describing what they like in men (not too
    surprising given the context after all) Taken together the notes set a
    sort of tone. So here I am reading Bay Windows and I'm laughing
    hysterically at this cartoon when I realize that it's EXACTLY
    appropriate to this topic. That makes it even funnier. I decided to
    enter the note, but keep it "closeted", and see if anyone caught the
    reference and thought it was funny, or whether anyone would assume it
    was a heterosexual context, which would be funny too.
    
    I just thought it was funny that I could enter a joke I'd seen in a gay
    context into a heterosexual context, and have people still think it was
    funny. Our similarities are much larger than our differences if we only
    let them be.
    
    	-- Charles

    re .76, I think it's funny, too, and I agree there are probably
    more similarities than differences.
    
    Lorna
    

    "The perfect man" is an oxymoron!!!  ;-)  (So is "the perfect woman!")
    
    RE: .19 - I know men who fit that description - they're not perfect,
    though.  And that's good.  Perfect is boring!  If we all had perfect
    personalities, faces, bodies, what would there be to hold interest?
    
    Tuesday night Arsenio Hall raised the topic of "romantic gestures" by
    men toward women.  He'd read a poll that said most women find weekend
    get-aways, long-stem red roses, and candle-lit dinners in expensive
    restaurants to be the most romantic gestures.  He came up with a few of
    his own, including (note this .37) not hogging the remote control, and
    picking all the little hairs off the soap after a shower!  These two
    would certainly add to "perfection," don't you think?
    
    Susan
    
    PS: A good friend once told me that if I was waiting for the perfect
    man, I'd be waiting for the rest of my life.  I told her that I'm not
    waiting for the perfect man, but waiting for the man who can make me
    *not* care that he's not perfect!  :-)

[Reprinted with permission.]
    
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (DON MULLEN)
Newsgroups: clari.news.interest.people,clari.news.group.women,clari.news.group
Subject: Survey on ideal love match: It's sex over money
Keywords: people, human interest, women, special interest, men
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 90 13:04:57 EDT
ACategory: usa
Slugword: mates
Priority: regular
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 319; Id: a1367; Sel: na--a; Adate: 7-13-1ped
Codes: ynhprxx., ynjwrxx., ynjmrxx., xxxxxxxx

	NEW YORK (UPI) -- Given a choice between sex and money for an ideal
love match, most young adults would pick sex, a survey reported Friday.
	However, the poll of 10,900 readers of USA Weekend showed a wide
difference between the sexes, with 80 percent of the men and 58 percent
of the women picking sex over money.
	Mr. Right would have brown hair, be of average weight, ``30
something,'' and 5-foot-10 to 6-foot-1 in height, the survey showed.
	Ms. Right would be brunette, of average weight, in her 20s or 30s,
and 5-foot-5 to 5-foot-9.
	The survey also found most of those questioned down to earth in
their expectations.
	``Nerdy guys are usually more honest and friendlier and easier to
talk to,'' said one reader.
	Seventy-four percent of the men said they would like to be treated
to a homemade meal, but 52 percent of the women said they like a
candlelight dinner at a fancy restlaurant.
	Fifty-two percent questioned said they would want their ideal mate
to attend plays and concerts, 25 percent said sporting events, and 23
percent would want to spend quiet evenings at home.
	On Sunday mornings, 39 percent said they would like to make it a
twosome for church, 23 percent voted for staying in bed, and 18 percent
would rather read the paper.
	Forty-four percent said they would want their ideal ``to point out
foul-ups,'' and 33 percent said they wouldn't mind a little nagging.
Twenty-three percent said, however, they never want to hear complaints.
	And who would they like to hear sing ``their'' song, they were
asked? Thirty-three percent said Barbra Streisand, 24 percent said Randy
Travis and 20 percent picked Smokey Robinson.

<	Ms. Right would be brunette, of average weight, in her 20s or 30s,
<and 5-foot-5 to 5-foot-9.
    
        At least now I know why I'm sitting at home on Saturday night. I'm,
    5'4", blond, a bit over average weight, and 40 years old. Geez, I never
    had a chance! ;*) liesl

    dead
    

    erect!

    re .84, in that case, guess I've known a lot more perfect men than I
    thought!
    

    re .83  PRETTY SICK!!!!!

    re .83, I was very upset that day.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    
    This seems appropriate for this topic, :-) (and of course, we can
    subsitute 'nerdettes' for nerds... since there are probably just
    as many women out there as men who are 'over looked'. :-)
    
    Bonnie

[lifted from USENET]
    
Confessions of a Nerd
	By Ben Stein
 
Taken without consent from Cosmopolitan Magazine January 1991
 
	Think of this as the report of a geologist announcing a major new oil 
find. Or of a securities analyst discovering a highly undervalued stock that's 
 bound to go up and make money for the investor. Only this report is avout nerds
 -- and why they are worth you attention. And it's by someone who ought to
know, since I make a good part of my living playing one on TV (most recently on
the sitcom The Wonder Years) and play the role from life experience.
    
	Every young woman knows that there is a gigantic shortage of
interesting men. Masses are married. Other masses are nasty and cruel. Still
othersa have sexual preferences that render them unavailable. But -- and this
is a but -- big there is one large pool of men whou are habitually passed over
as boyfriend material. These are your basic nerds, the kind of men whose mere
mention makes many women's lips cure with disdain.
    
	Now, to define my terms, a nerd -- for the purposes of this
investigative report -- is a guy who is shy, bookish, not cool, not cooly
dressed, tends to lack certain social graces, and maybe carries a white plastic
pocket protector in his shirt pocket to shield the cotton-Dacron mix from the
blue ink of his six ballpoint pens. (I do not include men who are repellently
fat, pick their noses in public or private, have terrifyingly bad acne, or chew
beef jerky. Someone else will have to defend them.)
    
	As I said, the normal woman (who is not herself a nerd) has nothing but
contempt for the kind of men I'm pitching here. How vividly I recally the
female friend who told me about a date with a nerd from her history class at
UCLA: "On our first date, I thought that if he tried to kiss me, I'd throw up."
    
	But consider these few facts about nerds. . . .
    
	First, by definition nerds lack many of the most unfortunate 
characteristics of cool guys. According to the basic laws of dating, gool guys
are mean guys. Gool guys are guys who take you to a party and spend the whole
time talking about the newest-model Porsche with their pals. Cool guys are guys
who have sex with you and don't ever call you. Or who sleep with your best
friend while you're home in Oak Park visiting Mom and Dad.
    
	Now, some women ( all to many women, but then that's another story)
like mean guys. But if your're sick of being treated that way, consider the
nerd. 
    
	As a matter of necessity, he's scared of women. (That's part of what
makes him a nerd.) He's also convinced that women think he's a hopeless geek. 
( I assure you, this is so. I've felt it. I lived it until I was was about 
twenty years old.)
    
	Therfore, the nerd will be incredibly grateful for a date with you. If
your are even a little bit nice to him, he will be wildly happy. If you have
sex with him, he will remember you in his will. There's added value here. 
There's somehting to be said for being treated like a queeen instead of like a
punching bag.
    
	Second, the nerd will need not always be a nerd. And if you are the one
who brings out the cool part of your nerd, he will always be at your feet.
    
	I volunteer myself as an example. For all of my high-school life. I was
a nerd -- if not to everyone, then certainly to enough people. But in college, 
by a miracle, I met a wonderful girl named Mary. She treated me with love and
respect and even valued my brain-o nerdy qualities. (Her father was a
world-famous scientist-nerd, and this obviosuly had something to do with it.)
    
	She treated me so wonderfully, in fact, that for about fifteen years I
stoped being a nerd altogether. True, during a bout of terror in law school, I
treated her badly. But for the ensuing twenty years, I have been permanently
grateful and have her on a good-sized pedestal in my little mind.
    
	In her worshiping eyes, those twenty-five years ago, I was James Dean,
JFK, Carl Perkins, and Roy Orbison all rolled into one. The result was a
permanent change in my self-esteem. This is what a woman earns for treating a
nerd well -- and it's a lot better for the nonmasochist than the kick in the
teeth that the guy with the shiny smile, the quatrterback's assurance and
Daddy's Beemer is likely to give you.
    
	Third -- and this truly crucial -- today's nerd is tomorrow's 
superstar. The guy you spot today who is hammering out programs on his
Macintosh is the same guy that who is going to give you a twenty-room mansion
tomorrow. The guy who stammers when he asks you if you want to have coffee
after class is the you who is going to clutch an Oscar in his breast someday.
    
	This is not just a hypothesis or hope. This is fact, and I have seen it
with my own eyes.
    
	In high school, there was a guy who was funny and amusing and could
play the guitar. But he was goofy-looking and had dirt under his nails 
sometimes and was always talking about obscure books on political subjects that
were taboo for most of us. I knew him well, and in our little circle we used to
wonder what park bench we would see him sleeping on when we all grew up.
    
	Instead, he became Carl Bernstein, multiprize-winning journalist, 
legendary lothario of the beautiful people, and the exact opposite of the nerd
he once was. (Although, like Napoleon's soldiers, who each carried the field
marshall's baton in his knapsack Carl carried the big winner's easy smile and
assured slouch even in high school, as every nerd carries some hint of future
hip inside.)
    
	In junior high shcool, there was a boy who was scrawny, withdrawn, and
perpetually sad-looking. I used to see him at the neighborhood pizza place, 
where both of us ate our solitary slices. By this time, you've probably seen
him too. His name is Sylvester Stallone. Of course, he no longer qualifies as a
nerd, although he still has the slightly bewildered, slightly frightened look
on his face that made him a superstar in Rocky.
    
	There were also nerd girls in my high school who went on to bigger and
better things. One was a skinny, definitely not quite-cool girl who was always
trying to please and who succeded. Her name is Goldie Hawn. Another was an
almost unbelieveably shy Chinese-American girl who hardly spoke, although she's
certainly made up for it lately. Her name is Connie Chung.
    
	Look at Woody Allen, Steven Seielberg, Rick Moranis, or any one of a
million ex-nerds who have gone on to fame and fortune. Nerds have to work
harder. They have to study. They have to put in long hours. That's why they're
called nerds. If they didn't do that, they would be cool guys.
    
	Which brings us to the big catch-22 for the cool guys, at least those
who are cool in high school or college. There peronal qualities that make a
young man cool -- comtempt for school, obsession with appearance, a studied
surliness -- do absolutely nothing at all to produce income, fame or presttige
in later life. But the things that nerds do -- study, work hard, think
creativly -- do produce the goodies of life.
    
	Fourth, nerd is a as nerd does. Or, don't assume that because a guy
looks like a nerd even when he's grown up, he'll be a nerd for all eternity -- 
or even that he really is a nerd right now.
    
	A man can look like a nerd and still be totally cool and hip and 
famous. Here in Malibu, where I am writing this, I often eat at a nearby
Italian restaurant. A few months ago, I walked in behind a an unimaginably 
weird-looking man with a head much too big for his body, a wildly outsized chin
and strange-looking sideburns. "What kind of people are you letting in these
days?" I demanded of the headwaiter. "Who is that goofball?"
    
	"Are you referring to Bruce Sringsteen?" the captain asked.
    
	Then, not long ago, while walking in the local shopping center with my
assistant, Miss Vicky, I saw a man with curly hair and funky dark glasses, 
wearing a long leather coat on an eighty-degree day. "What a loser," I said to
Vicki. "Doesn't he know that the sixties are over?"
    
	"Wait here," Vicki said. "I'll tell Bob Dylan to change his clothes."
    
	So, as I learned once again, with enough talent, hard work, and luck, 
the nerdiest-looking guy on earth can become a superstar.
    
	Finally, I can give you an example even closer to home. By a series of
very, very lucky coincidenced, I, who have never had an acting lesson, got to
play a nerdy high-school teacher in the fabled movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off
-- just because I have the nerdiest voice in history. Because I played a nerd
so well, drawing on all my experience and along family history of nerdiness, I
got to be a famous nerd, asked for my autograph almost every day. From that, I
got to play a nerd in commercials, a nerd in a wonderful sitcom called Charles
in Charge, and then a recurring nerd in The Wonder Years, the megahit ABC
sitcom. Now there is talk of a TV show starring me as a robot teacher (though
most of the talk comes from me).
    
	Because of my nerd fame, people cryout to me from cars, from across
crowded rooms, and from a lot of places where nerds ar not usually welcome, 
like nightclubs, and ask me to talk to them. And so I've discovered that a
famous nerd is no longer a nerd -- and yet retains some lingering soupcon of
nerdiness. Or, to put it another way, a nerd can be cool and a nerd at the same
time, and that is pretty hip. (By the way, if you don't want to consider me, 
think of Elvis Costello or Garry Shandling or Pat Sajak and you'll come to the
same conclusion.)
    
	Fifth, and closely related to all of th the above, nerds can make good
lovers. For one thing, there is that gratitude aspect of their relationships. 
That translates into more time spent and more attention paid. For another thing
a nerd is by definintion fairly new to women and is therfore teachable, which
is a key to happy sex. He doesn't assume that he knows everything and therefore
can absorb what a woman tells him about what she wants in romance. Best of all,
a nerd desperatly wants to please. He is not likely to be as self-absorbed. All
of this is related, and it all may add up to some nice surprises.
    
	By the way, remeber the girl who said she would throw up if the nerd
tried to kiss her? That's right. They're married, and you can send them
presents at their house in Beverly Hills. He's a big time producer -- in his
late twenties. She plays a lot of tennis and writes in a little cabana next to
the pool.
    
	So there you are. Nerds, at least teachable nerds, a are a major
undervalued male resource waiting to be tapped. The cool guys won't tell you 
because they don't want the competition. But I just did.

    re .88, cute, but I don't really think nerds have been as overlooked by
    women as he thinks they have, except for dates in high school maybe. 
    Afterall, most of the male engineers and engineering managers who work
    for DEC seem to be married!
    
    Also, I have always thought that one of the criteria for being a nerd
    is having been an A student!  Well, regardless of what they look like
    today I've read that Bruce Springsteen was an average student in high
    school who dropped out of a community college during the first semester
    of his first year, and that Bob Dylan flunked out of the Univ. of
    Minneapolis.  I really don't think that either Bruce or Dylan were
    *ever* nerds!  Besides, I've seen Bruce Springsteen in person and *I*
    think he's handsome.  :-)  (Besides, I don't think anybody who is a 
    lead singer for a rock band *ever* has trouble getting women!  It's one
    of the sexiest things a man can do!) :-)
    
    Lorna
    

I saw that article last week. I found it very amusing, but I must say,
speaking as someone who has dated nerds almost exclusively, it is quite
flawed...

for instance, nerds are more open to criticism on sexual technique than
"cool" guys? Not a chance!  Many nerds have very low self-esteem, and they
are painfully aware of their own inexperience sexually, and the merest
*hint* that they might be doing something slighty wrong is enough to cause
many nerds to simply wither and vanish (not literally, of course. ;-) I
have found the men who are most willing to take constructive criticism
are the ones who are confident of their own ability and inherent sexual
appeal, and therefore don't have delicate egos on sexual matters.

And this idea that "cool" guys will ignore a woman to talk about cars at
a party, but the nerd will always be attendent?  ha.  This guy is clearly
not talking about *computer* nerds - I have been abandoned at many a party
while "my" nerd was off discussing the relative merits of object oriented
vs. data-driven design systems.

And yes, nerds are always very *grateful* for your paying attention to them.
But *gratitude* is not am emotion I seek in my partners.  I want my partner
to love me, care for me, like me, want me, find me interesting, appeal, etc.
But I don't want him to feel *grateful*!  I hate this attitude that I am doing
him a *favor* by liking him.  ICK!

D!, a nerd-dating veteren

    I must confess I have a thing for nerds, too.  When I was dating I
    liked cool guys, but they never seemed to like me.  Nerds were the only
    ones that reciprocated, perhaps because I am a nerdette.
    
    But, I have to agree with D!  There are flaws.  Nerds are definitely
    afraid of women, in fact the nerds I dated would run away in terror at
    my slightest suggestion that we get physical.  I began to get a complex
    like there was something physically repulsive about me.
    
    Eventually, though, I found the nerd of my dreams ;-)
    
    Mary

    A new topic was started on "the perfect man".  I deleted it by mistake
    and I'm sorry I don't remember the author's name. I didn't mean to
    stifle the conversation. Please continue the conversation here.

    Thank you 
    Manisha