Conference turris::womannotes-v3

>6. Women in the professions, especially how this was affected by the
>industrial revolution - which jobs women could go into (millworking,

At the mill Museum in Lowell (I forget what they call it; I could find out),
they have a fair amount of information on the women who worked there; exhibits,
and books in the bookstore. Might be work checking out as a resource and/or
field trip.

How long/many hours is one course?

Gosh, if I wasn't starting school full time in Sept I'd have been interested.

Another possible topic is women in religion. Seems linked to the first topic.
	Mez

    A few book suggestions, but since my library is still in cartons, I'm a
    bit flakey on the titles/authors.
    
    History of Everyday Life has a lot of women stuff in it.
    Antonia Fraser's The Weaker Vessel is great  (But then, one of the
    historical women she talks about is Margaret Russell)
    
    There are two books published about 1981 and 1983 respectively about
    women in the american west.  Written by an RPI professor, a woman.  For
    fictional records: Willa Cather  (I'll see if I can give better clues
    about the west books, its been some years since I read 'em. Check this
    file again Monday.)  Ah! One is called "The Lay of the Land" (pun very
    much intentional) find that in the card catalog and you're in business.
    
    There is a history book about women in the wobblies and another about
    the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire which took the lives of over 100
    women working in a sweatshop in NYC about 1870.
    
    I think you could do a fair amount of anecdotal teaching and provide a
    huge reading list broken into categories.  Then have students kind of
    Chinese menu their readings. (eg: must read one book from each category) 
    
    Also, how about a list of women's biographies?  I just finished one
    about Mary Wolstonecroft Shelley and it was great. What a protrait of a
    woman and a life in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Most of the books you list I haven't read and/or no nothing about, so I
can't say, but in this particular topic

>7. Women as men's sexual property - marriage laws; international traffic in
>women; the pornography debate; women behind the veil; women and the media.
>Read Susan Brownmiller, Against Our Will and Femininity; Dworkin; Lederer,
>Take Back the Night; Barry, Female Sexual Slavery.

your selection of books is clearly biased.  While I recognize *your* feelings
on the subject, I think it is only fair to your students that if they are
going to read multiple books on the topic, that they should present both
sides of the issue.

You say it's a course in women's *history* - seems to me that history is
a matter of (mostly!) fact, and so a book that simply says "this is what
happened" is fine.  A book on pornography, etc isn't just fact, it's
opinion, and therefore it seems important to give both sides a fair shake.

If nothing else, include books on the other side in your bibliography
(I assume you will give the students a "suggested reading" list in addition
to the books required for the course.)  One suggestion is "Caught looking"
a feminist perspective on pornography.  (You couldn't actually require
reading it because it has *pictures* which are contraversial.)

On a different note, perhaps a look at the future is in order?  Maybe
a section on sociologists or philosophers predictions for how women;s
lives will be changing in the near and far future.  A science fiction
book, even, for discussion?  (A book I have been meaning to read but
havn't yet is Native Tongue...as I understand it, it is about the results
of women developping their own language and teaching it to their 
children.)

On a general note, I have found classes of this sort work best when they
are very discussion oriented rather than a lecture.  (By courses of
"this sort" I mean non-technical special interest social science and
liberal arts type of courses, like one I took was "The History of
Science and Technology".)  I find I learn a lot more from reading if
I discuss the book with others who have read it.  

D!

    For your topic about women in the West, I would start with Women's
    Diaries of the Journey Westward  (I think, exact title tonight after a
    check at home).  Also consider the entire "Little House" series by
    Laura Ingalls Wilder, which while fiction paints a very accurate (and
    moving when read as an adult) picture of what life was like on the
    western plains.
    
    Any of these topics can be an entire course all by itself.  (I wish I
    still had access to the titles I used when doing a college research
    paper on harem life in Ottoman Turkey, but the stuff was fascinating.)
    If all of these topics are to be covered in a single offering, (for
    night classes, I'd assume one 3-hour lecture per topic approximately)
    your best bet is probably to structure as a broad overview of the
    issues of the day/subject, and suggestions for further reading and
    study.
    
    You might want to consider contacting the research librarians at Olde
    Sturbridge Village for suggestions.  Because they are trying to depict
    normal, day-to-day living they have a lot of information on "women's
    history" oriented subjects.
    
    Alison

    
    re:.0
    sounds exciting!!
    
    re:.3 (nit)
    including 'opinion' is never inappropriate in the study of history
    

    There is an excellant new book out about Cleopatra that I got through
    interlibrary loan recently.
    
    The author is a woman H<mumble something like utton or attan) and the
    title of the book is Cleopatra, History, Dreams and Deceptions.
    
    It was reviewd on NPR about a month ago.
    
    I read most of it and it gives a very interesting perspective on
    how our cultur has looked at women based on how Cleopatra has been
    represented in art and literature over the ages.
    
    Well worth reading and a possible source book for your course.
    
    Bonnie

    _Firebrand_ by Marion Zimmer Bradley.  Fiction; tale of the Trojan War
    told from the point of view of Kassandra, priestess of Apollo. 
    Includes some aspects of Goddess worship.
    
    _The_Mists_Of_Avalon_ also by MZB.  Also fiction; the Arthurian legend
    told from the point of view of Morgan le Fey, a Celtic priestess.

    Theres a two volume set out called either "A History of Our Own" or "A
    History of Their Own" written by two historians (women) and it covers
    just about all the topics/eras you have listed.  
    
    I thought it was pretty well done and interesting to read.

    
    My thanks to all who've offered suggestions, and for the general
    enthusiasm for the subject - it's really heartening!
    
    Dorian.

    Dorian.

	As someone who is in the process of writing two session out of
	an eight session course - I offer my support and understanding.

	The material I am working with is "Native American Tradtions"
	and "Philosophy of India - Hinduism" with a slant to the roles
	of women and the influnece of the concept of "goddesses" as 
	part of the everyday world.

	You will probably want to be much more focused - since the
	history of man can not be taught in one course - definetly
	the herstory of woman can not be.

	_peggy

		(-)
		 |
			She walked silently through the fields
			She road proudly on the waves
			She sits atop the highest mountain and
				beside the smallest flower
			Her grandness is our oneness

    There are two books about women in history I have at home (I may
    actually remember someday to look up the authors when I'm there ;)...
    but the titles are "Women in American History" (or something equally
    blase', but it's a pretty decent book), and "Demeter's Daughters".
    
    -Jody
    

    Women and the West is fascinating history for me!  I've read a few
    books on it and have several to suggest.

    First, I second Alison's recommendation for *Women's Diaries of the
    Westward Journey*, by Lillian Schlissel.  Diary excerpts of many women
    while on the westward journey, which took several months.

    Schlissel and two coauthors have written a book that was just published
    last year, *Far From Home*.  This book is about what it was like for
    the women on the frontier once they arrived there.  It chronicles three
    (or four?) families, based mostly upon letters.

    Also: *Pioneer Women* by ???, published a few years ago.  Life for women
    on the Kansas frontier.

    Then there's *Letters of a Woman Homesteader* and *Letters on an Elk
    Hunt* by Elinore Pruitt Stewart (name?).  The movie "Heartland" was
    based upon her first book.

    

	"Woman's Body, Woman's Right."
	Linda Gordon
	published by Penguin
	ISBN 0 14 00.4683 6

This book, subtitled "A Social History of Birth Control in America" is what I
re-read any time I start getting compacent about the state of birth control in
the U.S. I haven't gotten complacent in a long time... :-( It is a scholarly
history of birth control in America and comes with a good bibliography and
is well indexed.

	-- Charles

    
    Here are the authors/specs for the books I mentioned...
    
    A History of Women in America, by Carol Hymowitz and Michaele Weissman
    - "From founding mothers to feminists - how women shaped the life and
    culture of America"
    
    The Woman in American History, by Gerda Lerner - "...we shall describe
    women's status at different points in our history, examine how and why
    it has changed, and analyze the significance of these changes...."
    
    Demeter's Daughters, by Selma R. Williams - "The women who founded
    America, 1587-1787"
    
    

    Dorian,
    
    This will be a massive undertaking. I don't see how anyone can teach 
    the history of women in one class. If you just taught the History of
    the Suffragette Movement or 20th Century Women Artists you could fill 
    13 weeks.
    
    Kate

    
    re .15
    
    Yes, I know it's a bit ambitious! And I realize that any one of the
    eight topics I listed would be good for a whole year at least. But as I
    said, I meant this particular course to be really introductory, to skim
    the surface and basically to heighten people's awareness of the (long
    neglected) subject of women's history, turn them on to it and hopefully 
    inspire them to go on and explore it (through some of the suggested
    readings) on their own. I'd also like to do a more in-depth course on a 
    single topic, but I kind of like the idea of working up a more general 
    approach first.
    
    The idea that women even *have* a history is, from what I can tell,
    somewhat radical even now in some quarters...the idea that what women
    did is worth studying. Just to get people thinking about what history
    might be like if written from women's point of view rather than men's
    would seem worth it...to get people to acknowledge that there *is* such
    a thing as a women's point of view.
    
    Gerda Lerner speaks of a "paradigm shift" that would have to occur if
    we are to have a truly human history (i.e. of women and men)..."It
    challenges the notion that civilization is that which men have created,
    defended, and advanced while women had babies and serviced families and
    to which they, occasionally and in a marginal way, 'contributed.'"
    
    My son, for example, just finished a course in U.S. history in junior
    year high school, and it seems to have been mostly the standard stuff on
    wars and politics and treaties. What were the women doing, I'd ask
    him? They rarely touched on that...
    
    Things do seem to be getting better though; so many books in these
    areas have been coming out in recent years. I just want to help spread 
    that knowledge around a bit!
    
    Dorian
                                               

    Kate, you're right in that there is an immense amount of material, but
    I think I hear where Dorian is coming from (go to it, sister!)  By a
    superskim of all the areas mentioned so far, one can introduce the idea
    that what women have done is hugely undervalued and understudied, by
    all the traditional scholars, to anyone raised on 'normal'
    comprehensive histories which omitted women.  One can't help but
    notice the disparity.  Dorian, I hope you take all this material and
    spin with it; weave a mesmerizing web to show people what's missing
    from their current understanding of reality, whats been left out of
    their background.  {figure and ground, Mez!}
    
    DougO

    
    I'd like to thank those who recommended Women's Diaries of the Westward
    Journey by Lillian Schlissel. I came across a secondhand copy this past
    weekend and can scarcely put it down...there are other books on the
    same subject, but this one is particularly well written.
    
    D.

    There was a piece on NPR last night (to be contnued tonight) on a
    current movement to reconstruct the American west's history so that it
    is finally accurate.  One of the views they hope to change is the
    picture of "pioneer women"  Currently, our model is a dual structure
    portraying those women as either prostitutes or stoic models of virtue. 
    These historians, working out of the University of Utah, want to
    finally change that.
    
    Daniel

Additionally, there's an enlightening book entitled "Daughters of the
Earth" (sorry, I forget the author's name) which is about our Native
American sisters; their rituals, customs, achievements, and what life
was like for them before Europeans infiltrated the land.

Carla

The following passage is from the introduction to Gerda Lerner's book The 
Creation of Patriarchy (1986). I think it's useful as a summary of her 
views on how patriarchal attitudes, which affect us so powerfully even 
today, got started in ancient times, eventually becoming both "natural" and 
"invisible":


"a) The appropriation by men of women's sexual and reproductive capacity 
occurs *prior* to the formation of private property and class society. 
Its commodification lies, in fact, at the foundation of private property.

b) The archaic states were organized in the form of patriarchy; thus from 
its inception the state had an essential interest in the maintenance of the 
patriarchal family.

c) Men learned to institute dominance and hierarchy over other people by 
their earlier practice of dominance over the women of their own group. This 
found expression in the institutionalization of slavery, which began with 
the enslavement of women of conquered groups.

d) Women's sexual subordination was institutionalized in the earliest law 
codes and enforced by the full power of the state. Women's cooperation in 
the system was secured by various means: force, economic dependency on the 
male head of the family, class privileges bestowed upon conforming and 
dependent women of the upper classes, and the artificially created division 
of women into respectable and not-respectable women. 

e) Class for men was and is based on their relationship to the means of 
production: those who owned the means of production could dominate those 
who did not. For women, class is mediated through their sexual ties to a 
man, who then gives them access to material resources. The division of 
women into 'respectable' (that is, attached to one man) and 'not-
respectable' (that is, not attached to one man or free of all men) is 
institutionalized in laws pertaining to the veiling of women.

f) Long after women are sexually and economically subordinated to men, they 
still play active and respected roles in mediating between humans and gods 
as priestesses, seers, diviners, and healers. Metaphysical female power, 
especially the power to give life, is worshiped by men and women in the 
form of powerful goddesses long after women are subordinated to men in most 
aspects of their lives on earth.

g) The dethroning of the powerful goddesses and their replacement by a 
dominant male god occur in most Near Eastern societies following the 
establishment of a strong and imperialistic kingship. Gradually the 
function of controlling fertility, formerly entirely held by the 
goddesses, is symbolized through the symbolic or actual mating of the male 
god or God-King with the Goddess or her priestess. Finally, sexuality 
(eroticism) and procreativity are split in the emergence of separate 
goddesses for each function, and the Mother-Goddess is transformed into the 
wife/consort of the chief male God.

h) The emergence of Hebrew monotheism takes the form of an attack on the 
widespread cults of the various fertility goddesses. In the writing of the 
Book of Genesis, creativity and procreativity are ascribed to all powerful 
God, whose epitaphs of "Lord" and "King" establish him as a male god, and 
female sexuality other than for procreative purposes becomes associated with 
sin and evil.

i) In the establishment of the covenant community the basic symbolism and 
the actual contract between God and humanity assumes as a given the 
subordinate position of women and their exclusion from the metaphysical 
covenant and the earthly covenant community. Their only access to God and 
to the holy community is in their function as mothers.

j) This symbolic devaluing of women in relation to the divine becomes one 
of the founding metaphors of Western civilization. The other founding 
metaphor is supplied by Aristotelian philosophy, which assumes as a given 
that women are incomplete and damaged human beings of an entirely different 
order than men. It is with the creation of these two metaphorical constructs, 
which are built into the very foundations of the symbol systems of Western 
civilization, that the subordination of women comes to be seen as 
'natural,' hence it becomes invisible. It is this which finally establishes 
patriarchy firmly as an actuality and as an ideology."

"Herstory," presented by CabarEggs dinner theater at 220 Broadway
Avenue E. (Seattle), Friday and Saturdays through September 1, 
524.4799.

"Herstory" is a program for the general public celebrating women's 
strength, humor and courage.

Director Helen Murray, in cooperation with CabarEggs artistic
director Jonathan Harris, has assembled songs, poetry and prose
excerpts tracing women's history over the last century or so.
The first half focuses principally on the outer woman, at work
and in the political sphere, closing with a clever sequence of
suffrage material.  During Act II, women's individual voices
ring out -- Maya Angelou reflects on aging, Rita Mae Brown
takes us back to "The Rubyfruit Jungle" and, in a gentle
country ballad, two sisters reflect on having always been
family, but never friends.

Wish I could take all =wn='ers to this show, especially Dorian!

Carla

"Fundamental to patriarchy is the invisibility of women, the unreal nature 
of women's experience, the absence of women as a force to be reckoned 
with. When women become visible, when they assert the validity of that 
experience and refuse to be intimidated, patriarchal values are under 
threat....

"The simple answer to my question--why didn't I know about all the women of 
the past who have protested about male power--is that patriarchy doesn't 
like it....

"Women's past is at least as rich as men's; that we do not know about it, 
that we encounter only interruptions and silence when we seek it, is part 
of our oppression. Unless and until we can reconstruct our past, draw on 
it, and *transmit it to the next generation,* our oppression persists."

			-- Dale Spender, from her book Women of Ideas and 
			What Men Have Done to Them, 1982

    Absolutely...the patriarchy can only operate if women's voices are
    silenced.
    
    Look at the myth of Lilith.  The Hebrew Bible has woman being created
    on two separate occasions.  The first was in chapter 1 when the text
    reads that God created woman and man at the same time.  The next
    chapter, however, has Eve being formed out of Adam's rib.  All of a
    sudden, women are protrayed as derivitive..what's going on here?
    
    To explain the difference, an entire mythology developed around that
    line in chapter 1.  They called that "original" woman Lilith, and the
    story reads that she was *soooo* evil and *sooo* horrible that she
    didn't want to dither around Eden all day long touting how wonderful
    God was.  She ran away to someplace in Babylon and gave birth (now
    where did she find the sperm?) to a race of (you'll love this) demons.
    
    The patriarchy assigns such dire consequences when women *dare* to find
    their ouwn voices.
    
    daniel

    There was a short segment on NPR last night by a woman who does
    marketing for women's products, or something like that.
    
    I'm paraphrasing, but she basically said that women don't seem to care
    enough to try and change things they don't like.  Or, more accurately,
    aren't willing to fight for what they want.

    Interesting juxtaposition.  Conclusions left to the reader.
    
    Current historical research is concentrating more and more on finding
    out about the daily lives of ordinary people - "women's history" if you
    will.  Source documents include demographic data on births, deaths,
    marriages and the like; economic data on goods and commodities made,
    trading routes, fairs, and such; records of court cases.  It's a way of 
    finding out about the portions of society who were illiterate.
    
    Alison

    I have inherited (from my mother, from her mother, from her mother,
    etc...) a hand written book.  It was written at the beginning of this
    century by my great, great, great, great grandmother, when she was
    quite old.  She tells about her grandparent's settling in Vermont when
    it was wilderness.  Most of the book details her youth in Vermont in
    the early 1800's.  
    
    Here is my question.  I would like to get this book published.  Is
    there a publishing house that specializes in this sort of thing?
    
    Thanks,
    /Wendy 

    try posting your request in BTOVT::VERMONT.
    or contact the Univ of Vt, or the Shelburne Museum
    
    what part of Vermont?  maybe a regional publisher or museum would be
    interested

I would also go to the local excellent bookstore (not just any bookstore)
and look up all similar books.  That will give you an idea of which 
publishers are interested in such things.  There've been several lately.
You stand a good chance!

      Carol

    .30 
    Dummerston, VT
    
    .31
    Thanks, I'll try it.
    
    Now I have to find the time to type it up, archaic spelling and all.
    
    /Wendy

    
    A friend and I will be going to the 5.October "Herstory", which
    is a celebration of women's history through song, dance, and a
    play at a local dinner theatre here in Seattle.  If any other 
    =wn='ers would like to join us, send me mail!
    
    Carla