Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    
    Before AIDS, I would have agreed with you.  However when a person
    makes an attempt to cheat on their mate, they may as well be pointing
    a partially-loaded, revolver at their head to play Russia Roulette.
    This man, in asking your friend to come over to his house while his
    wife was out, has made an attempt to cheat on her.  If he was this
    careless with someone, (he had to know that you might find out), who
    knows how many other women he's propositioned and how many have
    accepted.  I understand wanting to stay out.  If I were your sister,
    I'd want to know.  I'd want to live.  If I were you, I'd want my
    sister to live or at least be aware of the risks she may bne taking
    in sleeping with her husband.
    
    Even if, worst case, you sister gets so mad at you that she stops
    talking with you for years, that's worth possibly saving her life,
    I would think.
    
    Rachael
    
    

    If this happens when he gets drunk and he socializes and drinks
    fairly regularly I'd say she already knows.  She may not *want*
    to know.
    
    If I were you I'd tell her...even if she hated me for it.  And
    she may just need the real confirmation to do something about it.
    
    
    
                                     L.J.

    If I were you I would go to your sister and tell her. Maybe she would
    suprise you for not being not SO surprised as you think she would. Maybe
    those facts would just add to others she already knows and keeps to
    herself. Maybe she is aware of what is going on but lacks the
    courage to face the situation, talk about it. Go, help your sister. If she
    refuses to accept your help, fine... You've done what's expected for a
    sister/friend to do. Should the situation end up hurting your sister
    very badly I don't think she would ever be able to forgive for knowing
    everything that was going on and not telling her. If you are not
    telling her the truth because you're afraid of her getting mad at you
    you are being selfish, you are worried about YOU first place, not
    about her. Help HER decide what to do and if it would be living this
    way with your brother-in-law, THEN it is not of your business.

    If I were in your shoes, I would tell.  In my mind, my loyalty would
    lie with my sister.  If it were me, I'd want to know.  On the other
    hand, I wouldn't want to issue pressed on me.  So if I were you, I
    would just tell her the facts, and let her decide how he wants to
    handle it (and support her in whatever decision she makes.)
    
    D!

This issues goes to my heart.  My father has been a philanderer for as
long as he has been married to my mother.  He flaunts it more or
less openly.  My mother ignores it, as that is the path she has chosen
in order for their marriage to last.  It was always the "family secret"
that no one talked about but everybody knew.

In some ways I wish that someone had intervened years ago and "made
this better" because it has caused me endless grief as I come to
grips with how his sickness has affected me.  However, I believe that
intervention would have worked only if both my parents were willing to
allow it to change their behavior.  I've seen no evidence of them
wanting to change.

My advice is to make yourself available to your sister if there's
anything she wants to talk about.  I believe confrontation wouldn't
work, but I've always been non-confrontational (a by-product of
"keeping the secret").  I would talk to her regularly and let her
know that you are in her corner.  But the situation can only change
if she wants it to.  This is not your problem.  Maintaining your
relationship with your sister is your issue, and, I believe, is
the angle at which you should approach this situation.

Ben

    Maybe, if you don't feel comfortable coming right out to tell your
    sister, you could decide to make and keep some boundaries around this.
    Like, if he touches you, he *is* invading your space, tell him so, in
    NO UNCERTAIN TERMS and LOUDLY! Otherwise, you choose to 'keep the
    secret'. IF he is flirting with your friend, you might want to remind
    your friend, in front of him that he is married, and that YOU would
    appreciate if your friend not behave that way (I'm assuming that she
    was your guest, that you brought her).
    
    One *bad* thing about alcohol abuse is that so many times the excuse is
    'I can't beleive it happened either honey, but I was drinking at the
    time'. Like somehow, everything is OK when you drink, you
    immediately leave all responsibility behind!
    His behavior is disrespectful and rude, with or without the excuse of
    alcohol. Don't keep his secret over your own conscious-- what I am
    trying to say is take care of you first, and don't let him walk all
    over your boundaries just because others in the family choose to look
    the other way.
    
    Hannah

    Tell her. Not only because of the AIDS danger in today's world, but she
    might need the "alarm clock" to wake her up. She may hate you for it,
    but if you love her, you won't let it go on.
    
    I only wish that someone had told me that my wife (now ex) was
    cheatinng on me. I didn't suspect for over a year and it was 2 more
    years before I had any concrete evidence. If I had known, then perhaps
    we could have done something to save the marriage or perhaps we could
    have ended it somewhat more amicably. Right now, after 7.5 years apart,
    we still are barely sociable to each other, and that only for the kids'
    sake.
    
    PJ

    
>        My brother-in-law, when drinking, tends to be very, very flirtateous
>    and touchy/feely as well.  To the point where he has touched me in
>    private areas.   I did not tell my sister for the simple reason that I...

	Your brother-in-law is acting shameless, clearly having lost
    any healthy sense of his *limitations* when drinking. Your observation
    is actually diagnostic - this man probably has a myriad of problems
    associated with it, including the possibility of alcoholism. I would 
    tell your sister exactly what happened, buy her the Bradshaw book on 
    Shame, and let her give this guy good reason to want to make some
    changes for himself.
	
    	Joe

My great aunt has cut off all contact with me because of this type of issue.

Last summer when Shellie and Evan and I went to visit her in Arkansas, her
husband of 5 years (age 75) was very foul with us.  We had come out to them
both in the previous visit, before Evan was born, and they both had reacted
well.  On this visit, any time that this man had any time with us, even
*seconds*, he would say something sexual or do something sexual with his
mouth as he was telling us disgusting stories.  The worst of it was done to
each of us when we were "alone" (a few feet away from the others, but out
of earshot).

When we discussed it that night (after being there for 2 days, I think), we
found out how bad he had gotten with the other, and decided to do something
about it.  The next morning, our last day with them, we joined them for
breakfast at their home (which was ready when we got there).  After breakfast,
we told him in front of her that we weren't comfortable with what he was doing
and we would like for him to stop.  Actually, I did almost all of the talking
because Evan was in tears and Shellie had to take him outside to calm him down.
I was very careful with how I phrased things, so as not to be "too" accusatory.

My great aunt (age 85) told me that I obviously didn't love her, that I should
pretend that I had never heard of her before.  She locked me out of the house,
and I have not heard from her since (she has not in any way replied to anything
I have sent her, including pictures of Evan).

Prior to this, I had been the closest person to her in our small family.
I was her main heir.  I could talk with her about anything, and she would
talk with me about things that she had *never* discussed with anyone else.
I miss her terribly.

If I had it to do over again, I would have confronted him without her being
there.  However, the disadvantages in this are that a) I would have felt in
danger (being with him alone), and b) he could then have poisoned her against
me (which he probably has done anyway).  If he had *not* changed, *then* I
would confront him in front of her, or tell her alone (I don't know which;
I've not thought it out completely since the point is moot for me).

We included her because we felt it was important that she know that if we 
didn't see her again, it would not be because we were avoiding *her*.

Once again, I feel like the victim is being punished.  I am angry and terribly
sad, and I feel betrayed and I also feel sorry for her.  She had put up with
an alcoholic, abusive husband until he died, and she lives by what I call
"one of the codes of the South:" stand by your man no matter what kind of an
a**hole he is.

Good luck in your decision.  Think well about it, because regardless of what
you decide, you are going to have to live with the consequences, both good
and bad.

      Carol

    I would not tell my sister if this was happening.  It sounds to me as
    if she probably already knows what his behaviour is like and accepts it
    for whatever reason.  Telling her could cause a rift between the two of
    you - could you cope with that.
    
    I would confront the husband, tell him in no uncertain terms what you
    think of him and keep away from him as much as possible i.e. avoid
    meeting him at places where he has been drinking.
    
    Support your sister - listen if she wants to talk, but be careful
    about running her husband down too much to her, sometimes people are
    not thanked for such 'interference'.
    
    Just my opinion!
    
    Take care,
    
    Brenda

    If I were in your position, I would tell her.  As someone's already
    said, I think I'd worry more about how she'd react if she found out
    later that I knew and _didn't_ tell her.
    
    Sometimes, when I've had to tell someone something, and I thought they
    might blame me, I've started by saying,
    
    "There's something important that we need to talk about.  You probably
    won't like it.  Do you want to hear about it?"
    
    This gives the other person a chance to postpone hearing about it until
    some later time, if they really can't deal with it.  But most people
    will say, "Yes," and won't be as likely to "kill the messenger".
    
    You may find this too manipulative for you, but it's made things easier
    for me.
    
    Bob
    
    (By the way... the idea came out of an autobiography:
    Turner Catledge's "My Life and _The_Times_".)