Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    comments?
    
    > the waterbed has to go
    
    weird prescription. Rick's doctor recommended a waterbed for his back
    problems, and it seems to have done wonders.  does this mean that the
    pendulum is swinging back?
    
    > (the concept of separate beds)
    
    at our house we have yours, mine and ours -- the default being ours as
    neither one of us is likely to grant sole custody of the waterbed in
    the room with the A/C, VCR and colour TV to the other person in
    residence.  then we both also have beds in our _own_ space in the
    house.
    
    this might be tough to get out right, so please ask me to clarify I it
    seems ponderous:  if one of us had to leave "our" space due to medical
    reasons it would cease to be ours.  this wouldn't preclude visiting
    privs between the parties involved.
    
    _maybe_ your husband is reacting on an emotional level to feelings of
    'banishment.' an alternative solution would be to swap the rooms that
    the beds are currently in and you move with the waterbed.
    
    there's no 'right' solution -- it all depends upon what each of your
    needs are.
    
      Annie

>    Separate Beds?  The idea blew his mind.....

Well... I've noticed that to a lot of people "separate beds" is the 
first step towards "separate addresses".  It's more an emotional reaction 
than anything else.  Logically, it doesn't matter whether a married 
couple sleeps in the same bed, the same room, or even the same HOUSE.  
Emotionally, though, a lot of folks equate the stability of the marriage
with the ability of the couple to sleep together...

Also, in these busy times, often sleepytime is the ONLY time that couples
spend together... Tam and I went through phases like that early in our
marriage.  These days, we're with each other enough that the occasional
night of sleeping apart doesn't bother us at all (we're both given to
the occasional restless night; when that happens, the OTHER person
also has a hard time getting sleep!)

Re: .1

Different people have different kinds of back trouble... while some
people are helped by waterbeds, others aren't.  My own back feels
much better after sleeping on a hard surface than after sleeping on
a water or air mattress.  Sometimes if my back bothers me for a while,
I'll just spread out a blanket on the floor and sleep there!

--jim

    I know couples who have separate rooms...they are very happy.
    They each have their own space in the house than neither violates
    without asking...the rest is communal.
    
    It's worked out very well for all the people I know.
    
    
    
                                        L.J.

Re: .3

My in-laws kept separate bedrooms for nearly thirty years.  They cooked
together and lived in the same house, but otherwise led completely
separate lives.  I don't think they were happy.  My wife spent much time
and money trying to unscrew the damage done to her by a very messed-up
home-life. 

I guess my point is that keeping separate bedrooms is only a symptom,
and that the strength/weakness of the relationship can't be judged on
this basis alone.

Ben

Maybe it's the type of waterbed that's the problem.  Both my boyfriend and I 
have waterbeds.  His is firm with baffles and a regular mattress type quilting
covering the bed.  Mine is a regular free-form matress that moves with every 
blink of an eye.  He can sleep on his...but not on mine.  Mine hurts his back
because it's too soft.  He also has trouble getting to sleep so he tosses and
turns and fidgits quite a bit.  He gets so self-conscious about keeping me awake
when he turns over in my bed (creating a tidal wave) that he tries not to move a
and ends up not sleeping.  I sleep like the dead practically anywhere so it's 
not an issue to me.  Maybe you could try a firmer waterbed matress.

Nanci

    
    What follows is strictly a personal opinion and probably
    does not have any relevance at all to your own individual
    relationship:
    
    Personally, I would not stand for separate beds in my
    relationship as a regular, default occurrence.  And if
    that meant giving up sleeping in a waterbed (or any type
    of bed) for some other type of bed because of my husband's
    medical problems, I would do it.  And I would *damn* well
    expect him to do the same for me!
    

I would be *very* unhappy about separate beds. Half the fun of a relationship is
the soft, warm moments spent lying next to each other. I would feel deprived and
left out. 

Personal opinion alert - I'd think a marriage that required separate beds was
doomed to fail. It'd also be hell on the sex life. Of course, maybe a bad back
takes care of that on it's own. liesl

    
    Not all marriages fail with seperate beds, in fact I know of one
    marriage that was saved by seperate beds. He snored so loud that
    he was almost discharged from the army. The solution was to have
    some time together before he fell asleep and started that terrible
    noise......
    
    I bought my waterbed from a couple that she gave up because she liked
    sleeping with her hubby. I got a great deal!!
    
    To each their own happiness......
    
    

    	My parents had twin beds that they put together sometimes (and
    	pushed apart at other times, with a nightstand in between.)
    
    	When they bought their condo near Waikiki almost 20 years ago,
    	they each got their own bedroom and bathroom.
    
    	They both make a racket in their sleep (we kids used to say that
    	they harmonized) - so separate bedrooms seemed like a great choice.
    	
    	They're retired and they act like lovebirds (although they've
    	known each other since Dad saw Mom in a parade when she was 5 years
    	old.)
    
    	Whatever works...

	Can you get mattresses that are made-up differently on each side
	depending on the individual?

	They are advertised regularly here, however, waterbeds are not as common
	and I've not seen any that cover this. 

	Do they sell this type of mattress, either water or regular, in the US?

	Heaher

    
    re: mattresses made up differently.  I've never seen them but (this
    won't be cheap) you could get a king size frame and then two twin 
    mattresses, one of which has a water core, the other of high density 
    foam.  The only thing harder than high density foam is a futon.
    
    CQ

Yes, I have seen a kingsize waterbed made with 2 twin mattresses that could be
set up differently. It was in Big Sur waterbeds. liesl

    When I was younger I used to think that sharing a bed was a basic
    requirement of a couple relationship.  But, in the past couple of years
    I've changed my mind.  I now think the ideal arrangement is for a
    couple to each have their own bedroom and to make visits back and forth
    when in a romantic mood.  (I think visits can result in a good sex
    life, too!)  
    
    I haven't been living in a couple relationship for the past 1 1/2 yrs.
    or so and I find that I really like having my own bed to myself.  I
    like climbing into my own bed at night, with 3 or 4 of my cats snuggled
    around me, and reading for as long as I want to.  Even though I think I
    would like to be in a couple relationship again someday, I find that
    I'm not eager to give up this privacy and freedom!  It seems like one
    of the nice aspects of being single.  Even though there are some things
    I miss about having an SO, I don't look forward to once again trying
    desperately to fall asleep at 2 am, while someone snores away in my
    ear, when I know I have to get up at 5 am to go to work.  I, also,
    don't look forward to having someone complain about my nightime habits,
    either.  "Why do these damn cats have to sleep on the bed?  When are
    you gonna put out that friggin light so I can get some sleep?  How many
    times are you gonna get up and go to the bathroom tonight, anyway?" 
    And, even when people don't snore they sometimes breathe so loud after
    that fall asleep that it drives me up a wall!  So,  I think the ideal
    situation would be to each have their own bedroom, visit on the nights
    or mornings that you feel like having sex, and then each retire to the
    peace and privacy of their own room.  Of course, I don't happen to be
    in love with anybody at the moment.  If I ever fall truly,
    madly, deeply in love again, I might change my mind and be devastated
    if he decided he wanted his own bed!  Or, maybe, I'll discover that I
    can be truly, madly, deeply in love and still want my own bed.
    
    Lorna
    

    My husband not only snores, he SNORES. He used to regularly wake up the
    folks in the next *house* (we don't have any neighbors that close now,
    thank goodness).  I went through years of telling myself that "a good
    marriage meant a shared bed" (precisely because my parents *didn't*
    share bed or bedroom for lotsa years)...also not getting a lot of sleep
    along the way.  Then I decided that this was pretty silly, and we now
    have separate bedrooms (he still wakes me up, through an intervening
    space of 10' of hallway and two closed doors, just not every night). 
    Separate bedrooms isn't necessarily indicative of the health of a
    relationship, as I found out.

    re .13
    
    Lorna, I felt like you did when I was not in a relationship.  I love
    to read in bed, have my privacy, have my cat (unfortunately, only one!)
    in bed with me.  And snoring, heavy breathing, movement during the
    night all wake me up and drive me crazy because I'm a very light
    sleeper.  But, my current SO can sleep with the light on while I'm
    reading, likes sleeping with my cat, sleeps like a log making very
    little noise and never moving...all the comfort of sleeping with a warm
    body without the annoyance!
    
    On the subject, now that I've found someone who I can sleep with, I
    would not want to have separate beds.  I'd try to find some kind of
    compromise, like the firmer waterbed mattresses or another mattress
    that you find comfortable to sleep on together!
    
    cheryl

    Separate beds seems kind of harsh.  
    Who would you argue over the covers with?
      Who would you snuggle up to?
         Who would you discuss "My side of the bed" ethics with?
    
    .... Never mind the "I've got the soft pillows" conversation.
    
    I thought the combo was some of the little things that combined
    to keep you talking, interacting, and sharing.  But then, I am
    kind of new to the game.
    
    We went half way.  We got a firm king.  It is big enough to
    isolate yourself on, but attached enough to stay close.
    

re: separate beds

I've known several couples from different European countries who have separate
rooms and they love/lust for one another a great deal...they just make
appointments to get together in his room or her room.  The beds aren't the
issue, the respect for one another's needs is.  If the idea bothers either of
you, it probably won't work for your relationship.

re:  waterbeds for backs

well, I have a lovely queensize bed I'm trying to sell right now...bad back
problems FROM the waterbed.  My new furniture is arriving in one week and
I have no place to store this puppy.  sometimes waterbeds don't help.

    Snoring of the severity mentioned here can often be surgically
    corrected.  Of course, it requires that the snorer acknowledge
    there is a problem.
    
    I also think you might want to consider a European-style double bed.
    Two totally separate matresses, but with all the outward appearance 
    of a standard king-size.  They really are preferable.

    My husband and I have the type of water bed with the two separate
    sides.  It's called a California King.  Inside the frame are two
    separate liners-- about twin size.  Each has it's own heater and each
    is filled to the desired firmness.  There is a separator buried in the
    middle, which we never notice, so it isn't bothersome.                  
    
    This arrangement has helped us dramatically since we bought it.  I
    liked the bed warm, he liked it cool.  He'd get into bed after I was in
    and since the baffles were wearing out... whhhhhop!  I'd wind up on this
    big, uncomfortable mound of water!  It was awful!  Now, we each
    regulate our own temp.  Neither one of us disturbs the other getting
    in/out of bed, rolling over, etc.  The bed is huge and we have lotsa of
    room-- to cuddle, or to "have our own space."
                                                       
    We purchased this set from a water bed store on Route 9 in Shrewsbury,
    MA approximately three years ago.
    
    Regarding the snoring problem...  all I can say is:  thank goodness for
    spare bedrooms!  I've been known to pack up and sneak off to the spare
    room when I realize that he's snoring hard enough to saw a cord of
    wood!  Thank goodness that doesn't happen all the time.  I am another
    believer that sleeping together is important in a marriage.
    
    When he falls asleep on the couch watching t.v., I wake up in the
    middle of the night, for no other reason, other than the fact that I
    *KNOW* that he's not there, and I miss him.
    
    Rgds,
    marcia

    Let me clarify that:  The size of the bed itself is "California King." 
    The dual mattress arrangement isn't called anything in particular.

    Don't laugh, but the same week the doctor ordered no
    more wterbed, the waterbed heater failed (due to hurricane
    bob, i.e. power surge..I really think it heard us discussing its
    fate, and got mad! (-; )
    
    Re .19 But, my husband doesn't want to give up the waterbed,
     so we will be looking into the exact set-up you described!
    
    HRH

    I've seen a variation of the bed described in .19, where one
    side is a standards twin-sized water bed, and the other side
    is a futon mattress -- you might consider that as an alternative.
    
    					andrew