Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    What about setting up seperate quarters.  Your and his own apartments.
     Even if it takes drastic measures.  Visit each other or set up
    dates if you like.  Perhaps seeing each other in a new or different
    light will sparke reinterest.  

Is it worth it? Sometimes. I imagine most of us who have been in long term but
failed relationships will try again. We fear the pain and crave the closeness.
"Better to have..." and all the jazz. liesl

    
    Not to sound negative....
    
    	I was married for 12 years.  Seven years into the marrage was when
    things started going bad.  I feel now that it was at this point I and
    her was not going to change.  Ya know, at first there were things that
    you didn't really like the other doing, but, figured that maybe time
    would either make things better or you would just get used to it.  It
    was at about seven years that we bought a house, maybe that would make
    things better between us....No that didn't work.  At about 10 years,
    we had a kid....No that didn't work either.  At 12 years, I had enough.
    Things got worse and we grew further apart.  I didn't want to be
    unhappy anymore.  
    
    	I guess it is really what *you* want out of life.
    
    	Hal

    Depends upon what you want/you both want.  If you are both
    heading off into different directions.....try to meet together
    farther along those roads.  Are you/both of you getting anything
    out of the therapy?  Can you both have a heart to heart talk with
    each other, in private, without anger/instigation/accusation to
    discuss your future with each other, what your needs are, etc. etc.
    
    HRH

    re .0, I think only you can decide if the good times are worth the bad
    times, or if the bad times are so awful that the good times aren't
    worth sticking around for.  I guess it depends on how good the good
    times are and how bad the bad times are.  It also depends on the
    frequency of each.  Sometimes it can take awhile to know.  It's not an
    easy decision.  Sometimes it seems to me as though the people who bring us
    the most pleasure in life are also the ones who bring us the most pain,
    and that most other people are just uninteresting.  I've never stuck
    around so I can't say if it's worth it.  But, when is anyone really
    able to come to that conclusion?  When they're 65 and their spouse has
    just died?  Is that when a person can finally know for sure...yeah, it
    was worth it?    I don't know.
    
    If I were to ask my 66 yr. old ex-mother-in-law, whose husband died
    last year, if it was worth it to stay married to him for 47 years, she
    would emphatically say, "Yes!  Of course it was.  He was a wonderful
    man!"  But, if someone had asked her that 25 yrs. ago, when I've heard,
     they were fighting like cats and dogs, I don't know what she would
    have said.  So was it really worth it to put up with the years of
    fighting just because they calmed down in their late 50's and early
    60's?  And, even if it was worth it for her, would it have been worth
    it for me?  Who knows.
    
    re .3, coincidence.  I feel my marriage started to get bad after 7
    yrs., and I left after 12 yrs, too.  I think it gets tricky to make a
    relationship seem worthwhile after 10 yrs.
    
    Lorna
     
    
    

    Everyone else bear with me.  (And by the way, I have no connection with
    the authors or publishers of this book and receive no benefit of any
    kind from it's sales.)  But, Anon, you two are the perfect candidates
    for the book called "Getting the Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix.
    I've seen it in many bookstores, including the one near Sears in
    Pheasant Lane Mall.  Now you might say, we're seeing a therapist, why
    do we need a book?  Well, maybe you don't.  There are many therapists
    of all different flavors.  If yours doesn't seem to be helping you much
    what can reading a book hurt?  This book has really helped my wife and
    me.  It was my therapist who recommended it.  Good luck.
    
    					- Vick
    
    P.S.  As to whether it's worth it:  I don't see how I could possibly
    tell you that.

I've probably posted this story before.

I met Nina when I was 23 and she was 18.  We worked at the same health-and-
beauty-aids store.  I was trying to figure out whether or not to get married.
I knew that if I did marry, I wanted to marry Bob, but I didn't know if I wanted
to get married at all.  One thing Nina and I talked about was that feeling you
get when you are first with someone new -- that exciting, exploring, discovering
time when your feelings have a special edge. I said, If I get married I'll never
have that feeling again.  Nina said, Not with different people.

How'd she get so wise so young?

I have found this to be true.

Is it worth it?  Can you get through it?  I don't know; I suspect that if you
have enough goals in common, and basic friendship, and willingness to give-and-
take in many/most areas of disagreement, you can get through it.  I'm not sure
that's always enough; if your disagreements are in areas that at least one of
you cares about deeply and at least one of you cannot modify there, it may not
be workable.  Please believe me, I do know how scary that is.  But if you do
get through that part, I think Nina's observation might come true.

luck and hugs
Sara

    IT IS WORTH IT...
    I've been there, for 27+ years...
    Of course we get our dissagreements, but we RESPECT each other, we LOVE
    each other, and that carries us through any bad times that life puts
    into our paths...
    IS IT WORTH IT?  YOU BET it is! I could not exist without my husband
    and kids! they are my life, my present and my future.
    Ana
    

 I, too, IT'S WORTH IT!

 For 48+ years it's been worth it.

Bob    

    
    For Lynn and I, yes, it was and is worth it.
    We too had a rough time of it around the 7 year mark.
    We had to learn to communicate again and fell in love with each
    other again. One thing helped a lot, we stopped trying to
    settle anything. 
    
    Good luck, I hope it works out for the best.
    
    							Hank

    I think about this question sometimes.  Why do I want to stay with
    the same person all the rest of my life.  It was fun being single,
    in a way.  No real sacrifices to make.  But for me, to have someone
    that loves me in the morning before I wash my face and brush my
    teeth, likes to see me dressed up and down, cooks for me, just everyday
    stuff is something worthwhile.  I think about when I get old and
    rocking in my wooden chair, it'd be so nice to have this guy that's
    known me soo so long and likewise, that it was just so comfortable.
     It's nice to talk over past memories, the kids, the times when
    we first met and how far we've come.  I've been out of love and
    in love with my husband, ex-husband.  It was when after being out
    of love, that I discovered upon seeing him again, that'd I'd always
    love him, (sometimes much, sometimes not) but that I just didn't
    want to throw away the bond we had.  This is kinda hard to describe,
    but I know now, that even after some of the worse times, I'll always
    love him.  (Keeping in mind, as long as this relationship is healthy)
    
    Go have some fun though.  Be by yourselves for a while.  See if
    you miss him.  You probably won't for a while, but if later, even
    after a year, you suddenly do and so does he, you two may discover
    "real love", the good, bad and the ugly.

    re.0
    
    'Is it worth it?' I have no idea how to answer that.
    
    'Is _what_ worth it?' is my first response.
    
    If the what is the relationship, I think yes.  You've had a good run if
    nothing else.  And it may easily be worth it again.
    
    Oddly enough, I had a conversation with my sister about this only two
    [mid-]nights ago.  She's amazed that my relationship with Rick has gone
    on for 18 years -- well so am I.
    
    There have been times when either or both of us didn't think that we'd
    last out the year, 5 that come immediately to mind.  We go through
    cycles [doesn't that sound trite ...].
    
    The first valley was the hardest to get through.  We started out pretty
    far apart to begin with, so it wasn't drifting apart --- more like
    forcing ourselves together and finally one and then the other bursting
    out of self-imposed bondage with a sh*tload of anger and resentment at
    the other.  We care about one another deeply and we talk things out,
    but still the talking in the nadir-times feels pretty flaying.
    
    Early in our first crisis, we gave ourselves 'permission' to bail out.
    We felt that nothing could change that we had been happy and had loved
    even if that changed; to be happy and loved was 'success'even if it
    didn't last forever. My sister feels that this means we have been
    living on borrowed time for the past 13 years; but I disagree.  Once we
    we stopped struggling toward a goal of 'us forever' and started working
    toward being happy and fulfilled, staying together 'forever' seemed
    much more likely.
    
    I often laugh and say 'we're not joined at the hip' but it's true.  It
    was coming to the understanding that we _two_ had something worth
    cultivating that has kept us together.
    
      Annie

   Joy and I have been married almost 30 years. Recently we discovered
   that we both are amazed that we have been together that long, more
   than half our lives. It seems like a few years, and it seems like
   forever. 

   Our relationship has certainly changed over the years. I am not the
   person she married, and she is not the person I married. Our
   relationship has had its share of ups and downs. About 23 of the
   29+ years have been wonderful and marvelous, 4 of them have been
   so-so, and 2 of them have been pure hell. And these times were not
   consecutive. There were periods when one or both of us was ready to
   quit, but for most of the time it has been a fantastic, wonderous,
   and enthralling experience. 

   Love (*whatever* it is) isn't enough. We are very different in many
   ways, but similar in others. We are each other's best friend.
   We like each other, and enjoy each other. We respect each other.
   We are committed to each other. 

   I'm looking forward to the next 30 years, whatever they bring.

   Bruce