Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    I know what a "doule bagger" is (an I have always hated that term) but
    I don't know what you mean when you say it's a "double bagger" night? 
    What night?  Who is the double bagger?  What?
    
    D!

    The same as a "pull a pig night" ?
    
    
    Jerome.

For one of my bachelorette parties, we all dressed up and a group
of women took me to the Ritz for afternoon tea (the somber air
was livened up by a present that one person brought -- a chocolate
penis in a paper bag -- oy!!). Tea was fun and possibly a once in
a lifetime experience. From there, we proceeded to Faneuil Hall.
They took me lingerie shopping (<blush>) and we had great hilarity.
We also went out to eat and stopped at Serendipity for their frozen
hot chocolate drink. 

Can't recommend any of the type of entertainment you thought of,
though you might consider renting a movie, fixing up lots of popcorn
and getting rowdy, possibly as an extension to some other adventure.



liz

    "pull a pig"?  Sounds like something better done alone.
    
    D!

    Never heard of pull a pig, but I like the tea idea.  I'm not
    into looking at a guy in underwear, gee I can watch my husband 
    walk around for that matter.
    
    Double bagger means you're too embarrassed to be seen so you 
    put a bag over your head!
    
    b

    "Pull a pig" is where a group of men/women all have a competition
    (usually in a pub or nightclub) to see who can "pull" the ugliest
    member of the opposite sex. I'm suprised you needed that explaining
    D! - is it the Brit slang that threw you ?   How about grab-a-grot, 
    is that easier to understand?  }*)
    
    > "pull a pig"?  Sounds like something better done alone.
    
    I can't imagine what you were thinking of !!!
    
    
    Jerome who couldn't pull anything if I tried. At least I've never been
    the pig being pulled! I think.

        to see who can "pull" the ugliest
        member of the opposite sex. I'm suprised you needed that explaining
        D!
    
    Must be the Brit slang, yeah, cuz I *still* don't understand you.  What
    does it mean to "pull" a member of the opposite sex?  And what do you
    mean that the night is a "double bag" night?  That the woman getting
    married is ugly?  That the man she's getting married to is ugly?  That
    the men you are going to watch undress are ugly?  that *you* are ugly? 
    *who* is the "double bagger"?  And, more importantly, if you feel the
    person is so incredibly ugly, why are you hanging out with hir?
    
    D!

    
    wait a minute.
    
    a double bagger as *I* know it is someone you probably wouldn't go to
    bed with unless they had a bag on their head *and* YOU had a bag on
    YOUR head in case theirs fell off because they are SO ugly you can't
    stand to look at them.
    
    A double bagger from what I'm hearing as mentioned before means you're
    so embarassed you want to have two bags over YOUR head incase one falls
    off - so nobody recognizes you.
    
    I've not heard of "pulling a pig" or whatever, although by "pulling"
    I'd guess you mean "lead on" or "attract" or "hook up with".   Sounds
    like a game that's gonna leave someone depressed by the end of the
    night!
    
    The only bachelorette party I've been to was a woman-only
    Undercoverwear lingerie party, where we showed the videotape
    "Bachelorette Party" (where dancing men *almost* take it all off), ate
    luscious desserts, and chomped on naughty chocolates (like those sold
    at Sweet and Nasty, two doors toward the Charles River from Tower
    Records in Boston).
    
    I don't think it matters so much what you do, but there must be a
    conspiratorial atmosphere of fun and "last ditch live-now" attitude.
    
    -Jody

    To "pull" is to manage to get a member of the opposite sex (or same
    if preferred) to kiss'n'cuddle, dance with you etc. or to get their
    phone number maybe. I can't think what the US equivalent word/phrase
    is.
    
    
    Jerome. 

    That's disgusting!  You play a game where you decide someone is ugly,
    then "pretend" to be interested in them to lead them on?  
    
    What, did it never occur to you that the person you "pull" might
    actually have *feelings*?!?
    
    I'm sorry, I think I'm going to be sick to my stomach.
    
    D!

    And I *still* don't understand the reference in the base-note to how
    the night out with the bride-to-be is going to be a "double bag"
    party...
    
    D!

 D!

 I knew a group of guys whose idea of fun included a contest to see who could
have sex with the ugliest girl; the winner would get a bottle of liquor.
Of course, to "win," someone had to see you do it. Some of these guys were
proud of their "accomplishments."

 The double bagger in the base-note almost certainly refers to the fact that
these women are planning on doing stuff they wouldn't actually want to get
their pictures in the paper for doing, so they want to have an extra bag so
they are not recignized if the first one breaks...

D!, there are many things in this world that pass my understanding, and this
is only one of them.  Like going out with the intent of getting fall-down-drunk,
this humiliation-party-cum-cameraderie builder is beyond me.

    >I can't think what the US equivalent word/phrase is.
    
    Fraud.

    >I can't think what the US equivalent word/phrase is.
    
    Fraud.  Sick.  Disgusting.  *UGH*!

    
    Anyway, I heard that sex toys are now being sold at in-home parties,
    much like Princess House crystal and Tupperware.  It's probably
    something that's been done for years in California but it's a new one
    to me!  I haven't been to one yet but I'm on the invite list.
    
    CQ

    I just want to make it clear that I do *not* participate in this type
    of sick game, and neither do any of my friends. I am unable to be this
    cruel to the intended victim. I have enough trouble summoning up the
    bottle to ask out someone I *am* attracted to!   My first reply was
    simply trying to ascertain what the basenoter meant by double bagger. 
    
    Could you all please direct your distaste of these "games" towards
    the lager louts who partake in them.
    
    
    Jerome.

    re : my reply .17
    
    In case it is misunderstood, in Brit slang, bottle means courage.
    
    
    Jerome.

Jerome,

Be advised that connecting "bottle" to "courage" can get you in trouble
in the USA, for an ethnic slur.  The slang term "Dutch courage" means
courage from a bottle...

-d

    To continue the minor rathole:
    
    re. 19:
    
    Why "ethnic" slur? Is there a feeling that only some ethnic groups are
    in the habit of getting thier courage from a bottle?
    
    Alice T. who wants to understand.

    Alice, you beat me to it. Why the ethnic slur.  Just for the record
    I certainly don't mean the type of courage you get from alcohol. If
    I try this method I'm normally incoherent before my courage level (wrt
    asking girls out) is high enough !
    
    Does this also mean the expression "going dutch" meaning to both
    pay your own way is also not ethnically acceptable. 
    
    
    
    Jerome who won't use the word bottle for courage again - just to be safe.
    
    PS - I think the UK expression "bottle" to mean courage came from
     an advert on the telly for milk, which over here is the most common
     container for milk. 

    Hi Jerome,
    
    Sure it's safe to come out now :-)  I, for one, didn't assume that *you*
    participated in such games and I even appreciated learning that stuff
    like that happens.  It's easier to avoid being the victim if you know
    the game.
    
    Mary

    The inference being that the Dutch are only brave if they have alcohol
    in their system, yes.

    E Grace

Jerome and Alice,

"Dutch courage" is an ethnic slur because it implies that alcoholic
courage is peculiar to the Dutch; i.e., that the Dutch have a greater
need for (or incidence of) it.  Hence, the term implies that the Dutch
are a race of drunkards.

"Going Dutch" isn't usually seen as a slur; in fact, it can be looked
upon as a compliment, in that it shows that everyone involved is
capable of supporting hirself.

-d

    Your telly is the most common container for milk?!
    Strange lot you are!
    
    N ;-)
    ahhhhhhhh, Friday.........

    re: -.1
    Not so strange.
    Haven't you noticed that in the US the telly is now a container for
    beer.

 Yeah, glad I have a 27"... :-)

    What a coincidence!  You also got reply 27.

>    What a coincidence!  You also got reply 27.

What a silly fad! :-)

Dan

    
    Geez, I wanted to give my input as far as where to take a wife to be,
    but it looks like this whole note has gone way off the original
    subject!  Soooo, if the base noter is still interested here's my input.
    What about the good ole' strip joint? (women only of course). Male
    strippers are always a big hit at bachelorette (sp?) party's. Unless
    you have morals!!!!!
    
    
    
    SM

    This is the title of a film just shown at the Boston film festival. I'm
    not sure whether it will get a general release.
    
    It starts with a competition similar to the "pull a pig" competitions
    discussed earlier in this string. I agree with .10 about such
    competitions, BTW. A group of marines award a prize for the one of
    their number who turns up at a club with the ugliest female.
    
    Later on, one of the marines and his "entrant" get to know each other
    better. I found the film less touching than it seems to try to be.
    
    Worth a look, though, if you liked the previous film - True Love - by
    this director (Nancy ??).
    
    	Andrew.

    Go see the "Chippendales", with as many women as you
    can get together.  The bigger the group, the more
    fun it is.......(or a reasonable imitation of them)
    
    HRH

    This note string reminded me of a kinda funny story... I was
    at a "wife to be" party %-) one night and they had hired
    a striper.. I watched him for a few minutes, he wasn't very
    good, so I went into the other room, meanwhile the striper just kept
    dancing and dancing and dancing and dancing.. everyone began showing
    sighs of becoming uncomfortable and he kept dancing and dancing
    and dancing... he like, wouldn't Stop!  Finally people began
    going into other rooms to escape his umm... antics and the
    next time I saw him he was in the kitchen in his underwear
    eating!  He wouldn't leave!!!  %-).  He was still there 
    when I left the party... it was *wierd!*  What an odd fellow.
    8-).
    
    with love,
    cheyenne

    Well what do you expect if you hire a striper to do a strippers 
    job !
    
    Sorry - I couldn't resist  :-)
    
    
    Jerome the Sarcastic.

 You wouldn't believe me if I told you how often people in FISHING write
"stripers" (as in striped bass) as "strippers." 

    8-) OOPS!!!!!!!
    
    with love,
    cheyenne

    kinda like trying to have a quiet dinner in the dinning room?

    To original base noter.  If interested in Chippendales, they will be
    performing at Worcester, Massachusetts, Marriott on September 25.
    Tickets can be purchased at Ticketmaster ($15 and $25).  Two shows.
    
    "Dutch" treat could also be considered an ethnic slur if one looks at
    the custom as one person being too cheap to pay for both people.  There
    are more than one way to look at things. :-)
    
    Linda
    

    How can referring to 'dutch' be 'racist', which as far as I know,
    'dutch' is not a race!!!
    
    D!

    Well, call it xenophobic, then!
    
    Alice T.

Re: .39

> How can referring to 'dutch' be 'racist'...?

In .38, the term "Dutch treat" is noted as a potential ETHNIC slur, not
a racist one.  The term "ethnic" can, and often does, refer to a
distinct cultural heritage, which the Dutch do indeed possess.

Subtle shades of meaning are part and parcel of natural languages.  I
should rather impute less harmful or less negative intent unless I know
in a specific case that such is not the writer's purpose.

-d

    I have used the sayings, "going dutch","dutch courage"  etc without
    any intention of slurring the Dutch. No-one here has ever pointed out
    to me before that this was in any way offensive. I used to go around
    with a Dutch bloke called Jan Mulder and he never mentioned it.  I
    think you can start to get oversensitive if you are not careful. 
    
    I would be interested to see if any Dutch people, or people working in 
    the Netherlands could tell me if the dutch think of these sayings as an 
    ethnic slur.
    
    
    Jerome.

    
    I believe the term "Dutch" in "Dutch courage" refered not to the Dutch
    as a people, but to gin (or "jenever") the most commonly available and
    cheapest hard liquor available in 18th and 19th century England. 
    
    clb

...you do in this case appear unable to read.  :-)

Just so that I can be sufficiently smartass, I have gone through this
string, and the only reference to "race" that I can find prior to .38
is this, from my .24:

> need for (or incidence of) it.  Hence, the term implies that the Dutch
> are a race of drunkards.

"Race of <whatever>" is common usage, not racist colloquy, and derives
from the following dictionary definition from W9NCD:

race n [MF, generation, fr. OIt razza] (1580)  2 a : a family, tribe,
people, or nation belonging to the same stock  b : a class or kind of
people unified by community of interests, habits, or characteristics
(the English ~ )

-d

    GEE, I put a note in looking for a place to take someone getting
    married, and it turned into a worldwide slang discussion.
    
    Ms.  Bobbit was correct when she defined what I meant by a double
    bagger:
    
    I DO NOT CARE FOR GOING TO STRIP JOINTS OR THAT TYPE OF THING.  SO...
    A DOUBLE BAGGER IS "I AM TOOOO EMBARRASSED TO BE SEEN SO I'LL WEAR
    A DOUBLE (NO I'M NOT UGLY, OR I DON'T THINK I AM ANYWAY) BAG OUT
    SO....IF THE FIRST ONE BLOWS/FALLS OFF I'LL STILL HAVE THE OTHER ONE
    SO NO ONE WILL RECOGNIZE ME AT ONE OF THOSE SHOWS!
    
    FYI:  We have decided to keep it clean and take her out for Italian
    food and we'll present her with a piece of unusually shaped chocolate,
    then off to a nice dance club for some hoppin and boppin.  I will be
    having some ladies spend the night, so I may just rent a chippendale 
    dancers tape....
    
    As the song goes...'nough said.
    
    Thanks for the variety of replies....
    
    b

    Just thought I'd contribute to the earlier rathole in this note since
    it's original purpose has been met.  
    
    RE: Pulling the pig - reminds me of a very painful experience as a
    teenager.  A very pretty girl pretended to be enamored of me in order
    to humiliate me in front of her friends.  It still hurts.