Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    
    
    I go to the Rochester Institute of Technology.  It costs about $15,000
    a year, including everything.  I pay for it by agreeing to be an Air
    Force officer for at least 4 years after graduation.  The ratio is
    about 3:2  guys:girls.  It is great because it has a co-op program. 
    You learn, you get experience, and you make money.  WHo could ask for
    anything more?
    
    I just am not looking forward to putting anyone through college.
    
    NICK
    

    First pass [1971+]
    
     Where?  Texas A&M University
     Cost?   ~ $2,000/year exclusive of room & board
     Payment?  Scholarship
    	       [room and board on me, I cooked for +/- 20 people in the
    	 	house I lived in]
     Gender ratio? Then 28M:1F, now ~1:1
     Recommendation?  sure.  a lot of weird traditions, but a great
                      engineering school.  used to have a fabulous History
    		      department as well, don't know about now.
    
    Second Pass [1988-1990]:
    
     Where?  Franklin Pierce College
     Cost?   $318/sem hr
     Payment?  Digital Equipment Corp
     Gender ratio? not a clue
     Recommendation?  not for anything technical; but Continuing Ed great
                      in Business disciplines if you can stand the
    		      accelarated schedule

    
    How interesting that reply #1 is where I went 10 years ago
    - me and edp ;-) and reply #2 is where my husband went
    (yup, he's an Aggie).
    
    

    Where did you go to school?  
    Worcester Polytechnic Institute
    
    How much did it cost?
    I estimate about $60,000 for the whole shebang
    
    How did you pay for it?
    I made $36,000 while attending there in a combination of co-ops,
    work-study, and part-time jobs.  I worked *real* hard.  My parents
    helped where they could.  The rest was guaranteed student loans.  I
    really didn't get much scholarship help except for awards I got during
    graduation from my technical high school - they said I wasn't qualified
    for most of the scholarship/financial aid help they offered....
    
    
    What was the gender ratio? 
    When I started it was 7:1 (12:1 in my intended major).  When I finished
    it was 5:1 at the school.
    
    Would you suggest anyone else going there?
    No.  And Due to DEC's policies on negative recommendation if you wish
    to find out why please contact me by mail.
    
    
    -Jody
    

    [But most of the "Cowboys", as in scholarship athletes, came from
    Chicago; wonder why that was? ;-)]
    
    Where did you go to school?  	University of Wyoming (Laramie, WY)
    					'69-'73
    
    How much did it cost?		In-state tuition ~ $150/semester,
    					r&b on campus ~ $500/semester
    					[Those were the good old days; even
    					then, out-of-state tuition was
    					fairly steep, and all prices have
    					risen muchly since then...]
    
    How did you pay for it?		Got a $2K scholarship from my dad's
    					company's academic-award program;
    					split the rest with my folks,
    					paying my share out of savings
    					from summer jobs.
    
    What was the gender ratio?		Dunno - student body was about
    					8,000; ratio probably 2:1
    					(men:women) or thereabouts.
    					Higher in the Ag. college,
    					lower in Liberal Arts. ;-)
    
    Would you suggest anyone else going there?
    
    Sure, if they're looking for a relatively inexpensive way to find out
    what life-after-high-school is about. I had no specific educational or
    professional goals and relatively little life-experience after
    graduating high school, so a low-key (and cheap!) college was fine for
    me. If I'd discovered, after the first year or two, that I wanted
    something that wasn't available at UW, there'd still have been time to
    find a place that had it. (UW does have extremely good programs in some
    areas, such as geology.)
    
    I honestly have no idea how much difference there is between typical
    undergraduate courses at a state university (or even a junior college)
    and those at the more prestigious schools. It may be that if my
    family'd sprung for M.I.T., I'd be a completely different person [and
    how much *more* different, she wonders, if I'd gone to Bryn Mawr? ;-)],
    but at the time it seemed totally unreasonable to spend that kind of
    money when I didn't even know what I wanted to do with myself. [For
    that matter, it still seems totally unreasonable to me - unless you
    have the money to burn, of course, and/or have a burning desire to
    take advantage of something that's only available at one of the ritzier
    schools.]
    
    -b

    Northeastern University for my BA. It probably cost about $80,000 for 
    the whole thing (NU is a 5 year school if you do co-op).
    
    I paid for it with a few scholarships (about $8000), student loans
    (about $18,000), and my parents paid the rest (thanks Mom and Dad).

    I thought it was a great school, especially the co-op program....thats
    how I came to DEC.
    
    Ratio of F:M, who knows....too many students.
        
    Lesley College for my MS. Cost about $8000 - 9000, but I can't be
    sure. DEC paid for the whole thing.

    Right now I'm going to BU (about $25,000) for another Master's degree
    and DEC is paying once again!  

    Virginia Polytechnic Institute (82-86).  Tuition begins around $1200 a
    year and went up to around $2200 a year.  Have no idea how much I paid
    in total.  All I knew then was I gotta pay, so why bother to add 'em
    up?  Got two degrees there (Math and Electrical Engineering), so took 17
    to 18 credits each quarter on average.  As to how I paid, I was a
    foreign student, so I couldn't get any money from the government (loan
    or grant).  Neither was I qualified for 90% of the scholarships.  But I
    did get a merit scholarship from the Math department ($2000 total) and 
    $500 senior award in the EE dept.  The rest I made by working on campus 
    (not allowed to work off campus) with a maximum limit of 20 hrs/week.  
    I cut about 30-40% of the classes to do that.  My relatives chipped in 
    a few bucks here and there.
    
    Went to University of Illinois for grad school with a TA/RA, a salary 
    of around $8000 a year not including summer, and a tuition waive, so I 
    don't know exactly how much it costs to go to U of I either.  Got an
    M.S. in CS there.  Boy I felt rich then.  Imaging 8000 bucks a year and 
    no tuition payment, and I could work in summer too.
    
    Eugene

University of Connecticut ('83-'88)

Out of state tuition, R&B, fees, etc. came to about $8000 - $9000 per year. My 
folks paid the bills, and I paid them whatever I could (summer jobs, programming
jobs at school, co-op, worked in a bar [that was the *fun* job!] ).  The deal
was, when I got out of school I paid them back 50% of the total cost.  I'm still
chipping away at that....

UConn is a pretty big school: 20,000 - 25,000 students.  I'd say the overall
student body was about 50(f) - 50(m).  However, in the engineering school the 
ratio was probably more like 25(f) - 75(m).  Within the school, the ratios 
differed even more depending on one's major.  In my major, CS, it was probably
33(f) - 67(m). In majors such as EE or ME, the ratio was more skewed; maybe 
20(f) - 80(m).

I'd highly recommend the school.  I never really ran into any sexism there.  I
was well known among my professors and the head of the CS department.  Two of
them hired me to program for them, allowing me to make ~ $6,000.  The program
was very challenging and prepared me well for my work at DEC.  The co-op was
*invaluable*.  I have a brother studying engineering at Syracuse and I've 
stressed to him that co-ops are practically *required* to get your first job out
of school.

Sue

    Where: MIT
    
    When: 84-88
    
    Price: At least $80000 for the four years.
    	   I took out $7500 in loans each year, worked on a research
    	   project during the year for money, and worked at DEC during the
    	   summers. I got about $7000 in grants per year (amazingly
           generous.) My parents paid about $5000 per year which was all
    	   they could afford at the time.
    
    Would I recommend it:  I don't know.  The work was hell when I was
    there, but I loved Boston so when I had some free time I had a ball.
    You are free to change majors when you want, and you don't declare a
    major until your sophomore year, so you can use your freshman year to
    try lots of things.  Great job placement office, which is EXTREMELY
    helpful for graduates.
    
    But would I recommend it.....well only if you wanted to go into science
    or engineering.  There are some other good places to check out for
    science/engineering, unfortunately the ones I can think of are all
    private schools.....except for UC Berkeley, which is still big bucks.
    
    Lisa

    Where:  Worcester Polytechnic Institute (class of 1980)
    
    How much:  About $28k for the whole 4 years which was tuition and room
    and board.
    
    How it was paid for:  I got a bunch of scholarships (RI has a 4-year
    renewable one which was quite nice), and I took out about $5000 worth
    of student loans.  My folks paid for the rest,  but I think that
    amounted to about $8000 for the whole 4 years because I was so
    fortunate to get scholarships.
    
    Gender ratio:  When I started, the ratio was about 15M:1F, and it was
    down to about 10M:1F when I graduated.  I found that with such a high
    ratio, most of my close friends were men, and I still keep in touch
    with them today.  I didn't find the gender ratio to be a big deal, and
    didn't feel awkward being the only woman or one of a few women in my
    classes.  I always felt comfortable and accepted, although there were
    one or two profs who thought that women just didn't belong there.  But
    I figure there are jerks everywhere, so there were bound to be people
    like that around.
    
    Would I recommend it to other people:  Highly, and I have.  I was the
    second one from my family to go to WPI.  My cousin went before me, and
    she graduated the year after I started.  And I have another cousin
    there now.  She will be graduating next year.  It's kind of funny to
    note that of my relatives on my mother's side, all the girls (that's
    all 3 of us -- all the others were boys -- maybe that's why I was so
    comfortable and unthreatened by the high M:F ratio) went to the same
    technical school, and we are the only ones in the family with technical
    degrees.  I think I got a great education at WPI, both academically and
    socially.  I gained confidence there, and definitely came out of my
    shell and started to overcome my shyness.  I think the education that I
    received was very practical in nature, and I have always felt that I
    was well-prepared to join the work-force and have a satisfying career.

    Boston University 1959-1968 
    
    cost $30.00 a semester hour ($900.00 a year full time, tuition; it's
    14-15k now EXCLUDING tuition) 
    Lived with parents 2 years -$25 a week) 
    Lived in my own apartment across the street from B.U. for $60.00 a
    month. 2 years 
    Rest of time with various roommates. 
    How financed G.I. Bill ($100.00 a month for full time, prorated -very
    generosly- for part time, more near end)
    Elevator operator [in a girls dorm :-) 3 years] 
    Full time work (most of the time) in computer field (computer operator,
    programmer) part time some of the time. 
    Would I recommend B.U. now? If you want the Boston ambiance along with
    a _good_ education sure! 
    If you just want the best possible education there are lots better
    -perhaps more than 100. (I mean B.U. is _good_ (much better than in
    60s) but it ain't no Harvard or MIT or Oberlin or Bates or Bowdoin or
    Vassar or Mt Holyoke, or Bryn Mawr or Grinell or Dennison or Stony
    Brook or Stamford or Duke or Macalister (sp?) ... for the same money.
    Not to mention ones for a lot less -even out of state- like U of Mich,
    U.S.C, U.C.<almost everywhere>,  UNC, UMass Amherst, etc etc etc 
    
    p.s. in most of the small 'elite' schools almost ALL the faculty
    have PHDs and there ARE no grad students.
    
    
    				herb

    herb,
    
    UMASS Amherst only *seems* out-of-state!  (*8
    
    E Grace

    re .11
    EXCLUDING tuition should read EXCLUDING room and board, of course
    

    University of New Hampshire, graduated in 1974.
    
    My ex-husband and I got the first two BSCS degrees from UNH.
    I worked half time while I was in school, lived in the cheapest dorm (I
    think it is now international students' housing - Smith Hall), and had
    three different small scholarships (National Merit Scholarship, one
    from the school, and one from the college my father taught at, which
    was WPI).  I don't recall what the total cost was, but I borrowed the
    rest from my folks.  And I got the degree in three years - I didn't
    sleep much in those days!  And didn't have much spare time.  During
    semester breaks I worked both my half-time job and an additional
    full-time job, and I had a full-time job in the summers.
    
    I got by.  One reason I had to scrape so hard was that the money
    available from my father employer had a per-family maximum, and we had
    to earmark most of it for my brother's college education because he is
    legally blind, and so was not expected to be able to graduate a year
    early like I did (in fact, he never finished his degree, but that's
    another story).
    
    I got my MSCS at Boston University, at night school, one semester at a
    time, paid for by DEC reimbursements.
    
    
    /Charlotte

    
    
    I have a question--
    
    How difficult is it to get accepted at a college for graduate work
    towards a master's degree?
    
    NICK
    

>    How difficult is it to get accepted at a college for graduate work
>    towards a master's degree?

Depends on the field of study and the school.

That's like asking "How difficult is it to get hired for a job?"

D!

[PS: "college" and "graduate work" are mututall exclusive.  College means
undergraduate.  you want to go to a "graduate school", which very often are
in the same institution as colleges.  Just a nit...]

    
    
    OK I'll be more specific.
    
    
    "Would I be able to attend the academic institution of my choice for
    graduate work if I had a BS in Comp Sci with a corresponding GPA of
    2.8?"
    
    NICK
    

    WHERE?
    	Boston University, 1969-1973
        University of Minnesota, 1974-1976
    
    COST?
    	I really can't remember; would guess full-time tuition,
        fees, and books averaged $1500 per year.
    
    HOW FINANCED?
    	Scholarships/grants/student loans/work study/a myriad of other
        jobs.  
    
    GENDER RATIO?
        By school--don't know, didn't care, must have been acceptable. 8*)
        By major--the first three years in the Math department => lot of
        males, very few females; the last years in Classics departments
        => more even.
    
    RECOMMENDATION?
    	Don't think I'd outright recommend any school--depends on the
        person.  Would *I* go again?  Probably no to BU, probably yes
        to U of M.
     
    nla
     
    
    
    

    
    
    RE: .17
    
    
    Uhmm, maybe not right after graduating....with a company like Digital
    supporting you after a few years, yes, you would be able to (part
    time).
    
    Graduate school is TOUGH to get into.  I know that you have to maintain
    a 3.2 gpa in order to STAY in grad school in most places.  
    
    You might get in, but I know the bottom level for giving grants and
    fellowships at my university was about a 3.4 gpa.
    
    kathy
    

    re .17
    
    No.
    
    There are Universities (perhaps varying from field to field) that might
    have as many as 100 applicants (or perhaps even more) for each
    available slot.
    
    The graduate program in Mathematics at Princeton comes to mind.
    The PHD program in Psychology at B.U. was -at least at one time,
    and maybe still- another example.
    
    

    I got into Northeastern with my 2.0 gpa undergrad.
    
    Everyone I ever knew who wanted in, got in, although not necessarily to
    the top schools. And I don't just mean engineering school, but also MBA
    programs.
    
    Oh, they'll make a fuss, they'll make you take extra courses to "prove"
    yourself, but I think this "its hard to get in" stuff is bogus.
    
    If I can do it, it must not be that hard. And I now have a 3.5+ gpa, so
    don't let the numbers intimidate you. Its not difficult to maintain a
    high gpa in grad school, higher than the one you had as an undergrad.
    At least, it hasn't been hard for me. And obviously, its not some
    bullsh*t Affirmative Action thing, either. (sorry, I just don't want
    anyone to make those assumptions. Its a hot button.) Maybe I've been
    lucky for two years. I don't know.
    
    However, I didn't say they'd give you MONEY!
                                      

>    "Would I be able to attend the academic institution of my choice for
>    graduate work if I had a BS in Comp Sci with a corresponding GPA of
>    2.8?"

Depends.  What is the "academic institution of your choice?" What do you
want to study?  What else do you have going for you?  What school did
you graduate from?

If you are looking to get into a CS program at a top-10 CS school like
Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, UMich, CMU etc...very, very unlikely.  Actually, most
of the *really* good schools don't even offer a Masters in Computer Science.
Stanford and CMU, for instance, only have doctorate programs (although
I think they both have Masters programs in something called "software
engineering" whatever that is.)  Anyway, most of the top-10 type
schools have a minimum GPA of 3.5.

On the other hand, there are things that are just as imporant as grades.
for instance, if you have really *great* recommendations from professors
that are very wellknown in the field, that counts for a *lot*.  (I can't think 
of any professors at RIT [that is where you go, right?] that are Big Names, but
I am hardly an expert.)  Work experience isn't that great but it does count 
for something.

If you want to go to a good school that isn't a top-10 school, such as
WPI, Northeastern, etc, etc, then you have a fair chance.  

If you are looking to go into something other than Comp Sci, then none of
the above applies.  In general, MBA programs are easier to get into than
CS programs.  And more schools offer them, and (this is my impression) there
is less difference between the schools than in CS.  Othe programs I know nothing
about.

Then there is the matter of paying for it.  In full-time CS graduate programs
at top-notch schools, most people don't pay for it themselves.  Most grad
students get assistance-ships (either teaching or research) which gives
a tuition waiver and a stipend of between 8-12K / year.  But they are harder
to get than just getting in (except at schools like CMU which guarantee
assistanceships for all people accepted into the program.)  This is especially
true if you are a Masters student, since most assistanceships go to doctoral
students.

i really hope if you are seriously considering going to 
'ren: of *course* you got into a good program.  After all, it doesn't matter
what your GPA was - you are from RPI!!!  That right there demonstrates that
you are obviously not only intelligent and hard-working, but that you are
kind, caring, creative, witty and a good cook! :-) :-) :-)

D! who is doing the Grad School Thing herself and so is real up on this stuff

    Yep, Diana is right.  Another depressing thing about those top notch
    schools is that they essentially swap students between them and
    occassionally take a few top ten students from other schools.  This 
    usually means that the grad students of Princeton are mostly from 
    Berkeley, MIT, Harvard or Chicago; the grad students of Chicago are 
    mostly from Princeton, Berkeley, MIT and Harvard; and it goes on and on.  
    As a matter of fact, a friend of mine told me that there is an MIT club
    (or something like that) at Berkeley because there are so many MIT
    graduates at Berkeley.  Another thing about the private top notch
    schools.  They essentially don't take M.S. students.  That is if you
    tell them you want to get a M.S. from them, they will tell ya to take a
    walk.  Officially, they all have masters programs, but these are sort
    of safety nets for those who can cut it after a few years, so they give 
    them an M.S. degree as consolation.  Of course, they will never admit
    to it, but us insiders know better. :-)  Of course, occassionally, they 
    will make exceptions for people who are willing to pay outrageous amount 
    of money to eroll.  If ya daddy is willing to donate one million bucks, any
    school will take you (and perhaps graduate you if the money keeps
    coming in).  
    
    The down to earth state schools (such as UMass, U of I, Wisconsin and
    etc) will require a GPA of at least 3.0 for admission and 3.5 for
    assistantship although in the end, everything is competitive.  The best
    recommendation I can give to Nick is to try to up your GPA to at least
    3.0.  Also, many schools will also ask the GPA of the last 60-100
    credits.  They want to know how you did with the difficult stuff.
    
    Eugene
                 

    
    The main goal of getting into grad school is finding a professor who
    wants you to work for hir.
    
    If you have good recommendations from people who are known to the
    profs at the school to which you are applying, that helps alot.
    Actually knowing the professor you want to work for is definitely the
    best way to maximize your chances of being accepted to grad school.
    
    The problem with grad school in computer science os that there are
    relatively few computer science professors.  Most CS majors with
    graduate degrees go into industry, where the pay is much better. 
    Because of the lack of faculty, it is VERY competitive to get into a
    CS graduate program.
    
    From my experience with MIT CS majors, 4.8/5.0 was not sufficient for
    admission to Berkeley (#1), but could squeeze you into Stanford.
    
    Graduate schools are preoccupied with your academic endeavors.  Work
    experience is not as important as what you did your undergrad thesis
    on, who you did it for, and how much you've published.  Unfortunate,
    but true.
    
    Lisa/

    Some graduate schools, even very reputable ones, have incredible faith
    in GRE scores (the graduate school version of the SAT). I  know 
    several people from relatively unknown colleges, and people with 
    unimpressive grades, who made it to some of the best schools here
    for a graduate program. The only things they seemed to have in
    common were the 790-800 GRE scores.
    
    It makes very little sense but there it is. Doing well on these exams 
    is merely a matter of knowing the system and how to beat it. There are 
    many good reference books on the subject. 
    
    Good luck.
    
    Ganesh.

    
>    Graduate schools are preoccupied with your academic endeavors.  Work
>    experience is not as important as what you did your undergrad thesis
>    on, who you did it for, and how much you've published.  Unfortunate,
>    but true.
    
    	If you're talking about CS (or other more scientific programs), 
    I'd tend to agree.  For an MBA however, work experience is much
    more important.

    	amy

    With specific reference to CS...
    When I applied to UMass in '68 (one of the very early programs)
    I had a very low cum ~2.68 (degree in Mathematics)
    but good GRE (don't remember but something like 90th percentile)
    and 9 years experience in computer industry.
    I had to dance a pretty good tune to get accepted, they weren't very
    interested in me. 
    (i didn't do all that great in grad school either, never did my thesis;
    what I like to say is that the 1970 recession and a baby took priority!
    But in reality my undergraduate grades were a pretty good indication
    that I just wasn't a very good student)
    
    Your mileage may vary
    
    				herb

    also, some really great grad schools don't "eat their young" (accept
    undergrads from that school into the grad program in that school).  MIT
    is one example.  So if you know you want to go to MIT as a graduate
    student, go elsewhere for your undergradute degree.
    
    -Jody
    

    Herb, you triggered my memory
    
    I got my undergrad CS degree from the grad school at UMassAmherst.  You
    read right.  When I was there, there was no undergrad CS degree
    offered, so I did BDIC, Bachelors Degree with Individual Concentration
    -- ie, make-your-own -- in CS.  Since my 1st time around at UMass
    (69-71) I had taken all the humanity-language-history-lit courses
    needed for core reqs, the 2nd time around I took 12 or 15 credits each
    semester in math and computer science.  It was, um, a challenge.
    
    Best prof there imo was Dr. Caxton C Foster.  I took three courses from
    him (Real-Time Prog, Computer Architecture, and Data Structures) and
    was a t.a. for one of his assembly language courses.  It was he who
    taught me the most important thing I learned in college:
    
    	Define the problem, then solve it.
                                       
    It didn't matter whether your answer contained 19,000 fantastic
    great bells and whistles, all of which worked and were original
    ideas.  If you answer did not contain a solution that worked for the
    problem as stated, you blew it.  (There may be a lesson here for DEC.)
    
    I do not recommend the BDIC method for CS degree.  I had no counselling
    worth a darn, took Data Structures last semester for ex.  This may have
    changed since '77 when I graduated.

    I went to Brandeis undergraduate (74-75, and 79-82) and found lots
    there to recommend it. With a little effort you never take courses
    from  TAs  (Even  my  science  labs,  I  managed  to  get into the
    professor's section), and most of the classes were small (a couple
    had 3 or 4 people, most had about 10, and the big classes had 40.)
    Of  course,  I  chose courses carefully, and generally stayed away
    from  the  huge  ones.  (I  think there were some courses with 100
    students, but I don't know in what.)

    The physics,  math,  biochemistry,  Near  Eastern  and Judaic, and
    biophysics departments are all absolutely first rate. CS is pretty
    volatile  everywhere,  when I went it was a really good department
    for  anyone  who  put  in  a  little  extra  effort.  The  physics
    department  gave  all  the second year students summer (and winter
    break) jobs, where I learned a lot about making experiments work.

    When I  graduated  tuition  was  around $8500/year, but each of my
    parents  got  up  to  $4000/year for each child in college, so the
    tuition  cost us next to nothing. My parents anted up for room and
    board, and I made some money working which tended to go for books.

    Graduate, I  went to Brown for a year, and then to Yale. Brown was
    awful.  It  seemed  that they picked the people who you would most
    want  at  a  cocktail  party, rather than good students. It was an
    amazingly dead place.

    Yale was  wonderful. Lots of very sharp students, proffessors, and
    random  people.  A  very  good seminar series which we each had to
    give a talk for, and a tremendous sense of excitement.

    Both grad  schools  provided  me  with  a  stipend  in addition to
    tuition.

--David

Another piece of advice for someone seeking admission to grad school - get 
advice from your advisor or someone similar who's familiar with graduate school
policies.

I did my undergraduate studies (electrical engineering) at Johns Hopkins Univ.
and had a respectable GPA (don't remember exactly; 3.2-3.5 range), but didn't
ask any advice. (Also decent GRE, no recollection of #) I decided to apply for
an MS in EE and then switch to Computer Science for a PhD.

My advisor would have told me (and later did!) that I could have stuck with EE
or switched immediately to CS and taken exactly the same course. But by 
proposing to switch schools between degrees, I guaranteed myself no financial
aid whatsoever (fellowships). Nobody wanted to fund someone who was dropping
out at MS, and nobody would start funding a PhD candidate in a different school.

Dumb?

The schools in question (I was accepted at all) were Johns Hopkins, Stanford,
and University of Pennsylvania (Moore School of EE). I wound up going to 
Stanford, got an MSEE in one year, and left school (in debt) to start working.
Never did get that PhD. (Never missed it all that much, truth be told.)

    Admission to  grad  programs  is wierd. I had essentially the same
    application  to grad school as I did to college, and it was a very
    strong  grad  application,  and a very weak college application. I
    had  very  high  SATs  and  GREs,  some  research  experience (and
    published papers outside my current field), and a weak GPA.

    It got  me  into very few colleges, but most of the grad schools I
    applied to (including Berkely, Yale, and a few others).

    I asked  the  grad  advisor  at Yale (after I was there) about the
    application  process,  and how they chose among the applicants. He
    told  me  that  there was nothing he knew of which correlated with
    ability  to  do research (which is what PhD programs want), except
    earlier  research,  and many students didn't have the chance to do
    that.  They  selected  on intelligence, interest, and some sort of
    "liveliness"  ie.  did  this  person  have  the sort of curiousity
    necessary to do research?

    Recommendations are  a  very  important  part  of  the grad school
    (particularly  PhD)  application  process,  much  more so than for
    college.  Talk  to  people  in you field, talk to people you might
    want  to  work  for,  and  talk  to  people  about  the  different
    departments  and  what their strengths are. If you find one person
    you  want  to  do your thesis with, and he wants you as a student,
    you'll  almost  certainly  get in, regardless of grades, GREs, and
    everything else.

--David

    Actually MIT eats quite a few of it's young.........depending on what
    type of young they are.  If you get the bachelor's, then go for PhD,
    you can get in.  I knew quite a few "career students", who had been at
    MIT for 8-9 years getting various degrees.
    
    However, if you do a co-op program where you get a BS and MS in 5
    years, consider yourself poisoned for a PhD.  This applied in quite a
    few different departments.
    
    I personally can't understand how someone can go to school at MIT for 7
    years in a row and remain sane, but I've seen it done.
    
    Lisa

    re .33,
    
    I think most schools (and most professors) discourage students from
    staying in the same place for graduate study.  The rationale is that
    one gotta learn to do things differently and see the world in a
    different perspective.  Such tradition is the strongest in the case of 
    Ph.D. graduates.  It is usually a no-no for someone to get a Ph.D and 
    then become a faculty member in the same school although I have known 
    a few Harvard Ph.D's remaining in Harvard after graduation.  Things 
    get a bit strange when you get to the top or the bottom of the barrel.
    I mean if someone gets a Nobel prize while working on his Ph.D. thesis
    at Harvard, and wants to remain there after graduation, it is unlikely
    that Harvard will turn him down.
    
    Eugene         

       This note becomes a good source of information for graduate school.
    I have a few questions for you.  First I have a BS in Comp.Sci. and now
    try to get a master degree in French Literture, is it possible?
     
       It seems whacko, but I tried CS Grad. School, I had to drop out
    because of a major surgery, and because CS no longer intrigued me.
    Then I tried Math., but I got so bored, I to Arts ofcourse I had to 
    take few undergraduate classes.
    
       I finished all those classes, and I had good recommendations from my
    teachers, but I could not pull myself together to submit my final 
    porfolios.  I still don't know the reason for it.
    
       I then switched to French Lit.  and music.  I am doing very well in
    both fields.  I am thinking about International Management degree, but
    I don't know what school offer it?.  My GPAs in both French Lit. and
    Musique are very high, and so far I don't get bored yet.  Again, my
    teachers gave me very good recommendations to go to grad. school, but I
    don't know whether they will accept me, and any good school in this
    field.  Can I apply for leave of absence?  and how do I do it?  
    
    Merci beaucoup pour vos informations.
    
    Bisous
    
    P.S: I feel some strange feelings creeping up to my heart, maybe it is
    that boredome again. :)

    How about if me as a Hong Kong Chinese want to study MS in CS in
    US? What should I do? I'm a coop student in Hong Kong and soon get
    a BA in computing studying. I hope I can get MS and then Phd after
    graduation and have some working experience.
    
    (I remember that we have to take TOFEL and SAT if we want to study
    in US for Bachelor.)
    
    Any help?
    
    

    You have to take TOEFL even for graduate studies. Most schools also
    require you to take GRE. You have to write to a few schools and ask
    them to send you application forms and then basically follow their
    instructions. The assistanships often come from CS department and not
    graduate school. Sometimes you have to send in copies of everything to
    both the Graduate School and the department. I've heard that you have
    better chance of getting an assistantship if you're a PhD student.
    Getting admited into a Graduate program is fairly easy. Getting an
    assitantship is more difficult.
    manisha

    The GRE  is  the Graduate Record Exam, which is similar to the SAT
    (Scholastic  Aptitude  Test),  except  that  the  SAT  is used for
    admission  to  college,  and  the  GRE  is  used  for admission to
    graduate  school.  There's  a  general  section  (split into math,
    English,  and, I think, logic), and a section which is specific to
    your field of study.

--David