Conference turris::womannotes-v2

>>> Maybe I should let her find out the details from one of the kids.
>>> Who knows they may never tell her.

I don't think so.  Children have a special way of exxagerating and turning 
a simple fact (not that this is simple) into the "Nightmare on Elm Street."
If/when she asks you questions, be straightforward with your daughter and 
answer her questions as best you can.  

And impress upon her the importance of letting both you and her daycare 
mom know when there's a stranger around that's she's not sure about!

>>> I will continue to support her as will my new husband.

She's special to have such a caring friend as you!
 
>>> My problem is with the father of my three year old. He does not believe
>>> that her home is safe. 

Just my opinion, but her new home is no less safe than anyone else's.  And, 
because of what has happened, she's probably made double extra measures to 
ensure the safety of her home.  Impress this upon him.  If he still is not 
convinced, encourage him to visit her home and see for himself.  And ask 
him what else may need to be done to further ensure the safety of  her home.  
It's worth a shot, but it's up to you to decide.  She needs support, but 
your three year old's father can't be faulted for thinking of the safety of 
his child.

>>> Another problem I am having diffuculty thinking about for any lenght
>>> of time is that If I had followed through with having one of my
>>> husbands family stay with her as was originally planned This would
>>> not have happened (At least not on the eve of a wedding).
>>> She had offered to put up some of the out-of-town guests. With
>>> all those people in the house he would have left her alone.

He might have, but hind-sight is 20/20.  You really couldn't have prevented
what had happened.  At best, you might have postponed it.  Maybe.  Sounds 
like the guy knew what he was doing.  He knew when she would be alone.  He
picked his time to strike very carefully.

This isn't your fault.  Nor is it hers.

>>> I feel so angry and sad and quilty and happy and how do I let all
>>> this settle. 

I'm going to sing the old "EAP" song.  Please get counseling, if you haven't
already.  You need more help to sort all of these feelings out.  And a 
counselor may also help you with regard to how to deal with this subject 
with your children.

I hope I've been able to help.  Hang in there!

Carol

Besides the excellent advice to get EAP to help you, I recommend reading
Getting To Yes by Roger Fisher and William Ury (it's _real_ short; about 150
small, easy to read pages). It sounds like _both_ you and the father of the
child in question have very real concerns. It sounds like you're thinking
win/lose. The book I'm recommending helps people think of ways that both sides
of a negotiation can be satisfied. Get him to read it too! :-)

And take care.
	Mez

    My gut reaction, and I will not defend this opinion because it is
    my initial reaction, is that if she wants to feel any safer and
    more protected than she could be with detectors and alarms and locks
    and so forth, then she should get a gun and learn how to use it.
     If this sicko wants to find her, he will.  He will go to the market
    where he has seen her go, and follow her home.  He *will* find her
    given time, if he is persistent enough.
    
    As for the children, he doesn't seem to have borne the children
    any ill will in the past, so I wouldn't worry more about them now.  Were
    the assaults at night?  If so, I definitely wouldn't worry about
    the children as much - as you say, with the new security measures,
    it should help.....and taking care of children is probably her work
    and something she enjoys, so it is probably a good thing for her
    that your child stay there (i.e. you trust her and know her house
    is safe so you don't transfer the child somewhere else - gives her
    a vote of confidence in the safety of the house, too).  

    -Jody
    

>    My gut reaction, and I will not defend this opinion because it is
>    my initial reaction, is that if she wants to feel any safer and
>    more protected than she could be with detectors and alarms and locks
>    and so forth, then she should get a gun and learn how to use it.
    
    Why won't you defend it? There's nothing to defend. It is sound advice.
    
    Unfortunately, since a gun is unknown, mysterious, and scary to so many
    women, she may be afraid of guns. Perhaps the repeated nature of the
    assaults will convince her to overcome any fears she may have.
    
    Problems with this advice dependent on the principals involved are the
    following: she may be unwilling to use deadly force, the parents of
    children in her care may balk at the idea of her having "a gun around."
    
    Still, I think it is good advice, and if she genuinely wants to prevent
    further assaults, she should follow it. It might also be helpful for
    her to obtain a watchdog.
    
    The Doctah

I second the Doctah,

 BUT! no one needs to know she owns/depends on a gun(except the police, she'll
need an FID in Mass) 
She must get competent instruction in the use of(see Bill Dolls' discussions
in 210) and needs to be convinced it is "right" for her.

A large dog is a good warning device but unless thouroughly trained is not an
attack dog. and a "just plain mean" dog is unsafe around kids(junkyards yes
daycare centers no :-} )

to expand on No one needs to know, Parents of children in the daycare center
also have no need to know about any alarms or protective devices. A secret 
is *NOT* a secret if told to *ANYONE* else. 

An alarm/device known about is one disabled easily. that includes knowledge 
that a firearm is present.
Amos

PS. Thanks Jodi for saying it first :-}

    My first thought was so paranoid that I took some time to admire
    it before finishing the basenote.  It is wondrously paranoid, but
    it doesn't contradict any facts.  Here it is:
    
    Suppose your ex-husband is the rapist?
    
    With the facts *I* have, the only argument against this idea is
    that this is real life, with probabilities very different than those
    the entertainment media believe in.  In a book or movie, *of course*
    a dear friend of the victim would inadvertantly show the rapist
    where her new house was, and what all the safety precautions were.
    *Naturally* no one would notice that this man is the same height
    and build as that man.  (I'm assuming the rapist was wearing a
    mask of some sort, since you didn't speak of your friend going to
    view mug shots.)
    
    Well, it makes a nicely irrational reason for not listening to him.
    
    						Ann B.
    
    P.S.  On a practical (but still paranoid) note, she might prefer
    the idea of tucking sheath knives here and there around the house.
    They never jam, they're always loaded, they don't require a permit,
    they can be hidden in lots of places, and kids know that they are
    not toys (but they'll play with them anyhow).

Re: .6, one of my first thoughts as I was reading the basenote was that the
attacker might very well be your child's father.  It seems pretty logical to me.

					Larry
					  ~

    
    re:last two
    this is really weird, but the same thought crossed my mind!
    

>        <<< Note 812.8 by DECWET::JWHITE "I'm pro-choice and I vote" >>>
>                  -< only 3 replies to get to guns; typical >-

I realize your anti-gun stance(you have expressed it often enough). in a 
perfect world there would be no need for guns for defense,
 I agree on that point, however please wake up, there are mean 
predators/canibals/deranged-people and until the world gets perfect,
a gun is an extremely logical answer. This person has perpetrated the greatest
evil, that of initiating violence against another human, under those
circumstances(IMHO) they(the attacker) forfits all right to life/liberty
*DURING* the attacks only, I am not preaching vigilantism.

To the person who suggested a hidden knife.
*PLEASE* do not do that, the degree of training(skill level) required for
a knife is far higher than for a gun, and, unless the woman has tremendous
muscular development cannot use it effectively.
Someone said "god made people, Sam Colt made 'em equal".

Also if kids see knives clubs etc they are no longer a secret.
a defense is best if hidden from knowledge until needed then used swiftly and
effectively.                    ^ 
                              other peoples

Amos

>        <<< Note 812.8 by DECWET::JWHITE "I'm pro-choice and I vote" >>>
>                  -< only 3 replies to get to guns; typical >-
    
    I could say "only 5 more replies to get knee-jerk backlash," but then
    I'd be reducing myself to your level. :-P
    
    The Doctah

Stop the insensitive tit-for-tat in a note that is _obviously_ a difficult
topic, since it is anonymous.
	Mez

    Given the fact that this has happened twice the idea of a trained
    dog is not bad. The rapist can't turn your dog on you and the dog is
    also an extra protection for the children. The dog is also (and
    maybe most importantly) someone your friend can hold and talk to on
    those nights when nothing is happening but the memories of terror.

    My youngest dog has no attack training, just the basic obedience,
    but he has taken to protecting me. If a man approches me on the
    street when we are walking (frequently after dark) he growls and
    places himself between me and the man. He only does this to women if
    they run up on me. This same dog has had a child rush up and grab
    him and just wagged his tail. He knows the difference.

    As for how you should realate to your friend. Stand by her, wouldn't
    you want the same if the conditions were reversed? liesl

          re: .0 (anonymous basenoter)

          > I have a good friend who has done daycare for me for 9 or more
          > years.(multiple kids). She has been assulted in her home by a
          > stranger, twice.

          Now she must learn how to cope with the consequences of sexual
          violence.  How long and to what extent her life is affected by
          the assault will result from a complex interaction between the
          assault(s) itself, whether the perpetrator is caught and con-
          victed, her responses and coping options, and the reactions and
          amount of support she receives from others, especially those she
          loves and respects.

          As a good friend who's known her for a long time, you could be
          instrumental in starting her on the road to recovery.

          You have already begun to do so in many ways you described in .0.
          Have compassion for yourself, as well, since anyone close to a
          woman who has to deal with the aftermath of rape will also have a
          difficult time.

          Now is the time for you to think clearly.  Do not let your anger
          of the situation get out of control.  At this point in time, she
          needs to be comforted, soothed, reassured, and given lots of sup-
          port.  She does _not_ need rage, tears, or some profound social,
          political, or economic explanation (though that may be useful
          _later_).  Don't try to force her to talk about it for her own
          good.  If she's somehow indicating the need to discuss it, ap-
          proach the subject in a manner on which she can either expound or
          abandon while saving face.  After experiencing a total loss of
          control during the rape(s), she needs to taste what it is like to
          be in control again.  This could be perceived from something as
          trivial as having her decide where to go out to eat and having
          her drive there.  Although she needs much support, avoid over-as-
          sisting her to the point that she could feel helpless or not in
          control of her life.

          Her most immediate need is one of safety.  She must be feeling an
          immense amount of terror at the fact that the same man was able
          to forcibly rape her twice at knifepoint and he is free to do so
          again.  She needs someone as a companion and protector for her
          short term mental and physical well-being.  She needs to decide
          on a means of protecting herself in which she's confident she
          could successfully utilize, given her first-hand knowledge of the
          reality of a physical confrontation between man and woman.  En-
          courage her to research the success rates of the various methods
          of self-defense, so that her decision is based more on facts than
          emotion.

          I hope she was given proper medical attention...  She should have
          been literally pumped full of antibiotics to prevent contraction
          of a STD, she perhaps should have been given something to prevent
          pregnancy, and she should be aware that immediately beginning AZT
          treatment could create an unhealthy environment for the AIDS
          virus if the rapist is a carrier.  Was it possible to obtain med-
          ical corroboration of the rape?  If not, were notes made of any
          physical injuries sustained during the attack?  I am not familiar
          with Mass laws regarding rape, but some states *require* physical
          corroboration or an eyewitness to the rape.

          Some negative side effects of her rape could be:

          o  distrust of men                 o affected attitude to sex
          o  flashbacks                      o dreams/nightmares
          o  cues which remind her of rape   o vulnerability/fear
          o  insecurity                      o  breakdown linked to assault
          o  negative effect on education    o  losing custody of children
          o  fear of challenging men         o  suicide attempt
          o  loss of security and safety     o  expecting coercive sex
          o  linking sex to being used       o  using sex as revenge
          o  loss of self-respect            o  self-blame
          o  confusion between love/sex/affection
          o  not being able to cope with images of violence
          o  more vulnerable to later abuse
          o  attempts to bury the memory and suppress the feelings it
             evokes;  denial
          o  difficulty in relaxing during sex
          o  having sex trigger memories of the rape
          o  becoming promiscuous or frigid/celibate (and I guess I'm using
             the male-defined connotations of 'frigid' and 'promiscuous')

          Some positive side effects of her rape could be:

          o  independent/stronger            o feminist attitudes
          o  becoming closer to women             
          o  knowledge that she has the right to control her own body
          o  aware of risks for herself and her daughters
          o  determined to avoid coercive sex


          Good luck.  She sounds lucky to have you as a friend.

                                                            nancy b.

    Thank you Nancy for a wonderful information filled note. 
    
    and I echo Mez's sentiment. Given the sensitive nature of this
    note, I was made uncomfortable by the digression.
    
    Bonnie

    I would suggest that the idea of a dog be viewed very carefully.
    If she were single, great idea for the reasons mentioned (assuming
    it is trained correctly). However, if she is keeping a guard dog,
    as opposed to Spot the poodle who barks at the slightest noise,
    and plans to run a day care with multiple children around, she could
    be risking more than she unwillingly knows by doing so. 
    	The owner has the brains, the dog is of lesser intelligence.
    The owner IS responsible for the dog and anything it does to anyone
    else. If the dog is in with the multiple children, or even a single
    child, even the nicest dog may at a minimum nip at a child who provokes
    it. As she cannot watch the children and dog all the time, she
    should either isolate the dog from the children completely and at
    all times, or not have it at all.
	My son was niped by our neighbors watch dog (collie) because
    he was pestering it (badly) while my wife was feeding her cats.

    People talk a lot about guns, but think little of the responibility
    they transfer to a large, even good natured, dog when they rely
    upon them for security. You could pay a large $$ price in a court
    of law for this dog who 'is protecting you'.
    
    Good luck, but think all options through well
    
    Steve

          re: .0 (anonymous basenoter)

          I second Jody Bobbitt's .3  that learning how to use a gun for
          personal defense is an option your friend should _seriously_ con-
          sider.

          I can conceive of no other recourse which would better enable her
          to protect herself in the circumstances.  If she knew she wasn't
          going to be attacked for 2 years or so, she could enroll in a
          martial arts class so that she _might_ eventually be skilled
          enough to protect herself against the rapist, despite his inher-
          ent physical advantage of testosterone-based muscles.  But this
          skill loses value as she ages and is no longer agile or strong
          enough to execute the maneuvers effectively.

          Or, she could take a series of self-defense classes where she
          will be taught maneuvers which any rapist-not-living-in-a-vacuum
          is aware that women are taught and need only know how to counter.
          His counter will probably be successful because he is stronger.

          One positive aspect of choosing these latter options is that it
          could help her feel less vulnerable, given that she now has that
          much more knowledge of how to defend herself.  A negative conse-
          quence could be that she'd feel more secure than she actually is
          against physical violence inflicted by a man, which would make
          any future attack all the more shocking and difficult to deal
          with.

          I feel that devices such as rape whistles, mace, stun guns are
          exploitive of women's fear and vulnerability.  Statistics show
          they are simply ineffective in violent encounters.

          As Mark Levesque said earlier:

          >   Unfortunately, since a gun is unknown, mysterious, and
          >   scary to so many women, she may be afraid of guns.

          In addition, the media has successfully conditioned the public to
          salivate at the sight or mention of guns through blatant lies,
          misrepresentation, and distortion of the facts.  A person with
          minimal knowledge of firearms can just count the lies said in a
          typical network news broadcast on the issue.  Instances of a
          citizen justifiably protecting themself via a firearm are not
          covered.

          If she indeed decides to learn to use a gun for self-defense, she
          should start the process of becoming licensed to carry
          *immediately* by obtaining forms from her local police chief, an
          FID, and enrolling in a gun safety course.  She must learn how to
          responsibly and safely store any firearms in her house in light
          of the fact that there are children around her household.  Safely
          storing a gun does not mean she would not be able to access it
          quickly if needed.

          Also, given the questionable circumstances of just how much a
          stranger is her rapist (I can see it Thursday night TV now - "Ann
          Broomhead For Hire" :-), I think it would be important that she
          (and you) tell *no one* of her decision to use a firearm for self
          defense.  This is a good idea in general...One of the big advan-
          tages of using a gun for self-defense is that nobody expects a
          woman to be carrying or know how to use a gun - the element of
          surprise is hers.

          As more and more women are choosing to defend their person and
          their family through learning how to use firearms, many products
          are now available for women designed to make concealed carry more
          practical.  The company

                                   Feminine Protection
                                   10514 Shady Trail
                                   Dallas, Texas 75220
                                   (800)444-7090

          will send you a pamphlet showing 16 different kinds of leather
          and denim purses for every occasion (including one small one with
          a gold shoulder strap) with built-in holsters, men's and women's
          leather portfolios with built-in holsters, ankle holsters, thigh
          holsters, midriff holsters, and shoulder holsters.  I think their
          most innovative product was a fanny pack with a holster for con-
          cealed carry designed for joggers or bikers.    Products like
          these enable quick access while retaining the element of surprise
          by being very inconspicuous.

          A bit of comic relief needed here?  ...A friend whose feelings on
          guns are ambivalent at best saw the pamphlet above, which, on the
          back cover, shows a female mannequin with many of the holsters
          "Feminine Protection" sells on it at once.  He remarked, "And I
          bet she's just *beginning* to feel safe!"  I thought that was
          quite funny (or maybe I was just desperate for a laugh :-) :-).

                                                            nancy b.

    RE .16:  Nancy:
    
    First, I'd like to say I appreciate your input, in view of the
    possibilities of flaming.
    
    I'd like to put a vote in for Model Mugging.  I know there was quite a
    bit in V. 1 on this, but I don't know about V. 2.  I don't think that
    rapists have any idea of the training model muggers get, and the 
    possibilities for causing major pain, followed by unconsciousness, of
    users of these techniques.  
    
    The major advantage is that the moves, including a rapid fingers-
    together peck [is there something more descriptive than "peck?] in the
    eyes, are practiced full out, with padded and protected "muggers."  
    
    I personally have bloodied my fingers by hitting the netted eye holes
    of the mugger's padded helmet with all my force.  The women in my class
    really varied a great deal in physical, and emotional, competence.  One
    woman had rheumatoid arthritis, but she could kick with more
    thoughtfulness and accuracy than any one else in the class.
    
    The basic technique consists of teaching women to use where we are most
    powerful, in our hips, for kicking from a lying-down position.
    
    I thought it was wonderful - and about half my classmates were
    recovering from various kinds of assaults, and they found the process
    to hasten their recovery, because it is empowering.
    
    Briana

    The best system that protects you is, in fact, a system.  A dog
    alone will not do it.  Alarms alone will not do it.  Contact defense
    weapons and deterrents won't do it.  Calling 911 may get action
    too late.  A gun does not make you invincible.  A planned *system*
    of defensive tactics, safety rescue equipment (including a gun if
    you choose), and the development of skills with the rescue equipment
    is what you should be striving for.
    
    Understand what you are dealing with.  Contrary to the popular wisdom
    that most home intruders commit their crimes unarmed, some 70-80%
    of them in fact *are* armed -- with guns, knives, razors, clubs,
    and other things that can put you in a morgue or turn you into a
    vegetable for the rest of your life.  This is not some game that
    yuppies play.  You are dealing with human predators -- feral man
    who has gone wild and preys on his own kind.  Do not expect mercy
    or understanding.  Do not expect threats that are not backed up
    by the authority of lethal force to work in a confrontation.  You,
    as a woman, to begin with, are ordinarily at a great disadvantage
    due to your physical size and strength against a male attacker.
    In addition, the ego of the typical street scumbag is not going
    to allow him to be intimidated by you, your rape whistle, your dog,
    your Mace, your stun-gun, or your Cap-Stun spray.  He considers you
    his rightful prey.  Your life is worth nothing to him.  It is said
    that the typical human predator views a woman as nothing more than
    a life support system for a vagina.  I don't mean to shock or offend
    any of you by this statement, but I think you deserve to know the
    reality of what you are dealing with.
    
    A dog can be neutralized quite easily by an intruder.  If your life
    is worth nothing to him, what do you suppose an animal's life is
    worth?  Your telephone and thus your ability to call for help can
    be rendered unusable by a person who simply takes any extension
    set anywhere in your home off the hook; you won't even know it's
    been done until it's too late.  Yes, knives don't jam and you don't
    need permits for them, but you also have to come into contact with
    your attacker to use them.  Knife/counter-knife tactics and skills
    are taught in prisons, in street gangs, and now even at an "academy"
    for outlaw bikers located in Kentucky and staffed with ex-Special
    Forces people and rogue cops.
    
    Please give some serious consideration to some of this before you
    decide on your solution to home defense and how you feel about the
    role of guns within that solution.
    
    	Bill

    
    
    
    I took Model Mugging, too, and I second Briana in saying that it
    offers women a way of protecting themselves.  I also want to say
    that while I'm personally opposed to handguns and wouldn't want
    one in my home, I think that whatever a woman needs to do to feel
    safe, she should do.  
    
    I think that once a woman has experienced total terror, that is
    to say that once she has had an experience where she felt that she
    had no control over her own body, over whether she lived or died;
    it is very difficult to feel safe again.  If buying a handgun makes
    a woman feel safer, lets her sleep at night, then I guess she should
    do it, but if she were in my life, I might try to suggest other
    things.  I'd also like to suggest that even if a woman decides to buy
    a gun or a dog or whatever for protection, taking some kind of
    self defense class (and I can't endorse Model Mugging strongly enough)
    can really help a woman heal from the psychic pain that an assault
    causes.  A course like Model Mugging lets a woman regain a sense of 
    control in the very place in which she lost it.... her own body.
                                 
    Justine

    Model Mugging is discussed in topic 284 of this notesfile.  
    
    There is also topic 237 - titled Southern NH rape - self defense
    which may have additional self defense information.
    
    -Jody
    

          re: .0 (anonymous basenoter)

          > ... We may never know. No detective in the police department
          > has been assigned to the case yet(I understand that none will
          > be until they get a decrease in known assailants because it
          > takes all there time to take care of them they dont even bother
          > with the unknowns.)

          Today I spoke on the phone with a District Attorney who has pros-
          ecuted at least 20 rape cases (not in Mass though).  I remembered
          being very bothered by the reasoning used above for your friend
          not having a detective assigned to her case.  While I had him on
          the phone, I opened =wn=, summarized your note, and read your ex-
          planation above to him verbatim.

          He said that your friend's case sounded unquestionably "founded"
          and should be under _active_ investigation, especially if: there
          was no prior consentual relationship between her and the perpe-
          trator, if he used force (preferably physical), if she could
          identify the assailant on sight, and if all interactions between
          her and the perp had been without her consent...against her
          will(but he conditioned that with a highly publicized case that
          made it to the state supreme court where it was ruled that only
          verbal statements made by the victim to the assailant are *not*
          sufficient proof of non-consent; generally, that it is seen as a
          more credible case where a woman has fought to protect her virtue
          with 'utmost resistance').

          He said it sounded like the rape occurred in an area where per-
          haps rape could be looked upon by the local (largely male con-
          trolled) institutions as not important enough to devote resources
          ("after all, rape is just a women's issue, right Nancy?"  he
          teased), which is not an uncommon phenomena or rationale, even in
          1989.

          His advice was for your friend to take the issue to the DA of her
          jurisdiction.

          I was horrified to discover that a state supreme court has ruled
          that "verbal statements are not sufficient proof of non-consent".
          In other words - saying "no", screaming "no", does NOT prove non-
          consent ?!?   From what mentality do people making those kind of
          decisions speak?

                                                       nancy b.

The following is a reply from the basenote author
    
    ______________________________________________________________


I wanted to thank all of you for your replies! I have tried to get this ready
for a timely posting and it still is not complete. Please forgive my 
grammatical and spelling errors. I am grateful for the suggestions and 
helpful hints. I am sorry this got so long. After I put it together
it dawned on me that you as a community would have liked several
notes in a shorted format.  The moderator is probably the only one 
grateful for one posting instead of five or more.
Thank you so much for the inputs!!

re. me
 <   Maybe I should let her find out the details from one of the kids.
 <   Who knows they may never tell her.

Well my ten year old asked the 11 year old daughter how were things and
the child replied "My mother was raped". My child being already well 
informed about life replied "oh I'm so sorry, Is she going to be 
all right?" My middle son (3yrs old) proudly told his sister"****** was raped.
I haven't touched that yet but I will need to talk to him soon. I am just 
biding my time to decide how much should I verify.  I think he has heard the 
word so many times and the kids talk about it sometimes(All her family
were in professional counseling the day of the incident and several
times since.) AND she is going to be all right.

re.1
  <Just my opinion, but her new home is no less safe than anyone else's.  And, 
  <because of what has happened, she's probably made double extra measures to 
  <ensure the safety of her home.  Impress this upon him.  If he still is not 
  <convinced, encourage him to visit her home and see for himself.  And ask 
  <him what else may need to be done to further ensure the safety of  her home.  
  <It's worth a shot, but it's up to you to decide.  She needs support, but 
  <your three year old's father can't be faulted for thinking of the safety of 
  <his child.

I think my biggest problem is that he is a good friend of my day-care
providers (she is one of those special people who tries not to take sides
and has tried very hard to be friends with both of us as individuals and 
has been a major instrument in getting him to visit his son by letting her
day-care home be that neutral ground. By doing this we were able to be 
distant and let the dust settle on the angry feelings and finally make 
arrangements that would not be so hurtful to our son.) In my opinion
he is so fickle that when you have problems he wants to back out instead of
stick it out. He knows the provider and should talk to her about how he feels.
I think it would do him good. I feel he has taken the chickens way out by
talking to me about it.(believe me she would listen to his concerns and 
try to make compensations and let him know what they did do to make the home
safer.) After talking about those concerns she would address the personal
issue of why he really wants to do this.

THank you for your reply Carol I needed to hear that there really wasn't/isn't
anything we could do in hindsight and now she has a wonderful new home that
just amazes me. The children have settled in real well and as she reminds both
of us her children are devoted to her And they are. All my children just adore
her and my oldest who is no longer in her care still calls her for advice and
comfort and just to talk.

Counseling is a great idea. I need to do something along that line I feel like 
I need to talk and talk and talk and talk. I recognize the feeling as I felt
the same way when I miscarried several years ago. Amazing It's been more that
five years since then...I think I will try to find a support group as I do 
a lot better in them. One on one counseling sometimes gets me nervous because
the counselor does not share his/her own experiences and I don't like telling
a stranger how I feel.


re.2
Thank you Mez for the recommendation. I do believe it would help if he would 
read it too. I will put it on my list of books to look for.(I love books
and always forget their titles.

re.3

Thank you for your reply Jody.

My initial feelings about the children's safety were that they were not in
any danger being there during the day. And I would not leave them overnight.
A gun is a great idea and I believe it has been suggested (by a police person
that is a good friend). She will not use a gun and is firm about it.
I wont argue. The knives and gun would not be safe from her 5 yr. old son.
He does not listen nor does he obey.  I do believe that it would be possible 
for him to find her if he wants to and she is taking what I would call passive
precautions. I recall someone mentioning self-defense. I would love to see her
learn this and will suggest this sometime soon. I hope she will be more open-
minded about this form of protection.

re.4

Thank you for your reply. In my opinion I think I would get a gun If It
were me but she is a pacifist and will not get a gun nor will she
support their use in any way. It is possible that she may change
her mind but the people who know her well are not even suggesting it.
I think that's because it is wasted effort. I do believe that her son would
not leave it alone either. I have never seen a child so into guns and violence.

    
I did mention the dog idea and she said "not yet"
    
    
re.5
Thank you Amos for your reply. I don't know how much she has told the other 
clients and their relationship is much different than the one she has with me.
I was told before the wedding because they knew that I would have to make 
other arrangements or be prepared to expect a depressed and emotionally 
upset honor attendant.
I let our mutual friend decide if she was up to being in a wedding or if she 
would even want to. Weddings are special and no one should be pressed into
being in one if its going to cause a lot of grief.



in re. 6
Thank you Ann for your response. I think that the thought that my ex could
be the rapist is hilarious!!! I did get a good grin from it. 
She is 6ft 5 in and he is 5ft 1 in and about 130lbs. If she thought she could 
overpower the man I believe she would have. He was physically larger and 
she had to consider that if she was overpowered or hurt she could not 
protect her children.
He did have a knife and she did manage to talk him out of some of the stuff
he had in mind(the first time). I think he was meaner and had a bigger knife 
this last time other than that I don't know any details about the second one
and will not ask for any. I think I will let her tell me if she thinks she
needs to. If he had made a move for her children either she or he would be 
dead. 

I remember her saying that she asked him his name and he gave her one 
I don't know about a mask I believe that she spent a large amount of time 
at the police station but I didn't ask about what they did. The police still
have not assigned a detective to the case so nothing is being done about it.
They have kept her sheets. She has (angrily)mentioned to them if they were
not going to do anything about the case then she would like her sheets back.

<    Well, it makes a nicely irrational reason for not listening to him.
 You are right it does. 
re.7

Larry thank you for your reply also.


re.9
<Also if kids see knives clubs etc. they are no longer a secret.
<a defense is best if hidden from knowledge until needed then used swiftly and
<effectively.                    ^ 
<                              other peoples

I agree entirely and she is not going to get a gun. She has made it very
clear to our police person friend that it is one option that she wont consider.
I think she feels that if she is forced to get a gun to feel safer than he 
HAS beaten her.
Thanks again for your advice.


re.12
Thank you Liesl for your response and I like the idea of a dog being around
and she is not interested in it. Maybe sometime down the line but not yet.


re.13

Thank you for your reply. I was full of encouragement and reassurance
because many of the things you mentioned are things that are being
done. I (fortunately) am only a spoke in the wheel of people who have
rallied around to help her. Someone has been doing the leg work for
finding her a house. Others have done day-care for her clients at no cost 
so that she would not loose money for being out of work.(We paid 
another person who had the power-of-attorney to handle her finances and
someone else raised money to cover the expenses for the security stuff).
Many of these people are also great counselors(home spun variety)who
know how to offer praise and encouragement and nurturing. 

She moved out of the house the morning of my wedding and stayed with 
friends and no one has been in the house except to finish packing and 
cleaning up and we did that in groups during the day.

I really like the idea of her doing research on methods of self-defense.

THank you so very much for the encouragement and advise.



>          I hope she was given proper medical attention...  She should have
>         been literally pumped full of antibiotics to prevent contraction
>         of a STD, she perhaps should have been given something to prevent
>         pregnancy, and she should be aware that immediately beginning AZT
>         treatment could create an unhealthy environment for the AIDS
>         virus if the rapist is a carrier.  Was it possible to obtain med-
>         ical corroboration of the rape?  If not, were notes made of any
>         physical injuries sustained during the attack?  I am not familiar
>         with Mass laws regarding rape, but some states *require* physical
>         corroboration or an eyewitness to the rape.

She has done everything the police have asked her to do so far. So If they 
don't have evidence its not because she wasn't willing to cooperate. They 
have taken the sheets off her bed each time with the idea that material
evidence is necessary. The advocate in the DA's office has not been 
to helpful yet. I cannot elaborate at this time.

re.15

Thank you for your reply Steve. She is aware of the responsibilities.
That could be what is keeping her from getting one.

re.16
Thank you for your reply and concern Nancy. I myself am pulled both
ways about guns. She has been real clear about her feelings on guns 
that are designed to kill human beings regardless of their 
practicality for protection and I just cant argue the other position
at this time. I will note the address and give it to her so she can 
get the info herself if she wants to change her mind. I'm sure that
there are many of her close friends that would like her to and would
provide her with the training necessary for handling and hiding 
guns.


re.17 
Thank you for your reply. I go along with your idea 100%.
I myself am finding ways to help her that don't infringe on her
right to decide what she wants to do. All suggestions are
just that suggestions and being there after she gets back from
the DA's office having dinner handled is more important that
one would realize. I hate seeing her start drinking again but
methods of coping are in short supply. I know that everyone 
around her is thinking about what they can do to help while she 
concentrates on doing day-care(which is healing in and of
itself for her) and being with her children. It is hoped that 
she will use those methods necessary to cope and then as time goes 
by the methods will be dropped again as she handles the lose ends of 
her life.

I cant thank you enough for the inputs and am very grateful for the
information from all of you. I will not put in another reply 
UNTIL we have caught and convicted the rapist. ...How's
that for positive thinking.  Any other replies will be read.
I just cant take this much time on a regular basis to write a reply.
Thanks So Much.


re.19 

Thank you for your concern. We are putting together a "system"
of sorts the will work for her It will meet her specific needs and 
requirements (she is firm on some points and still open to tips and 
precautions concerning security). She knows that it is very difficult 
find the "right"dog for her situation and is worried about the
resources (emotionally) that is required to find the dog for the job.
So that has been shelved for the time being and some of us loan her 
our dogs on the weekends. (Both assaults occurred on Fridays).

re.20
Thank you for the encouragement for Model Mugging. Self defense
courses have her thinking. So this idea is one that is still under
consideration. Some other things are money for the course and 
money for the counseling that her and her children are receiving)
Its not really a set sum she does not have insurance that covers
mental heath costs and the buracratic group that was paying for her
counseling no longer has funds (the victims assistance fund).
It may be possible for her to get reimbursed at a future date through
another fund and that paperwork and stuff is in the works.

re.21
Thank you for the pointers Jody!

re.22
Thank you for your reply. I do know that at knife point (knife held to her 
neck) she did not struggle much. What can I say. She did not want the children
to wake up and get into the mess. I remember her saying that she told
him that she would not fight nor would she help but if she ever saw him
in public she would hunt him down and kill him. That seemed to make
him think twice and he left shortly after. The first occurrence there
were three children in the house (13 year old girl, 11 year old girl
and a 7 or 8 year old boy). The second occurrence the boy was away
visiting his grandparents.

Under the circumstances I cant imagine what I would do but I don't
think I would fight (physically) what is the point. I do have a family 
to consider and even if I got AIDS I would (hopefully) be left alive to
take care of my children.
I cant figure what the supreme court had in its head to figure that
every woman will be able to give a fight to prevent rape. SO she fights
and the noise wakes up the kids and they get beaten, raped and otherwise
injured and know we have four people going to the hospital instead of one.
ANd the counseling involved for the children..... Weellll I think I will
quit for now as I don't need to burn about this this afternoon.