Conference turris::womannotes-v2

 This guy sounds like a bum. I'd tell him to screw if I were ye. I don't know
if you can legally do that or not, though. It's a tough situation. Good luck,
and let us know how things go.

 The Doctah

disclaimer: I have no personal experience with any sort of parenting issue.

That said, it sounds like he's not particularly trustworthy, but I don't see
that as a reason not to take his money if he offers it (unless the bouncing
checks cause you a lot of emotional or financial grief; but maybe you can
just always deposit them in savings, and forget about them...).

I don't know about letting a child visit an untrustworthy parent before the
child is old enough to voice an opinion one way or another...

And I would _certainly_ take my emotional/love interest elsewhere!
	Mez

This guy sounds like a real jerk!  You have given him not one chance, 
not two chances, but three chances to prove that he wants to be 
involved in the childs life, and he blew it every time.  Not only
that- but he took off in the first place.  In my humble opinion,
I wouldn't waste any more time or energy on this guy.  It's time
to evaluate how much positive influence someone like this could
even have on your child's life.  If he can't even pay support, and
he lets you bring the child up on your own, then what right does
he have to claim fatherhood?   If he wants to go the legal route-
that is just as well, cause he's going to have to take financial
responsibility- and it sounds like he doesn't understand what that
means.

A bit strong, but I have seen too many women be brought down in
situations like this, never mind the negative effects on the 
innocent child.

Terri

    Aside from whether or not you want this guy in your life (and your
    child's life), if you have accepted child support money from him,
    and verbally set up visitation schedules, you may have given him
    more legal rights than you think. I don't know. To protect yourself,
    I'd suggest seeking legal advice.

    My advice is to tell him off.  He does not deserve to be part of
    your child's life.  You will have to deal with the emotional problems
    he causes in the child's life.
    
    

    I wouldn't make anymore deals with this man either.  If he wants to 
    visit with his child, tell him to bring it to court.  You child doesn't
    need this on again and off again trash.  And I'd insist on supervised
    visits with his mother, which I would want the court to write into the
    agreement.  Remember, he has taken off before......
    
    Anna
    

    
    About the money... if it is convenient, cash the checks at his bank.
    Otherwise YOU will be penalized when his checks bounce. Most banks
    will cash their own checks, even if you don't have an account there.
    It won't help the disappointment any, but it will make sure that
    you don't have financial embarrassment as well.
                                      
    Best of luck with your decision.

    I cannot decide for you, but it sounds like this man will not change,
    and has no intention of being a steadfast contributor to your child's
    life (let alone yours) - he has shown little effort, and even less
    consideration.  If you and your child can live without him financially,
    I'd suggest you do so.  Starting now.  
    
    The main problem with depending on undependable people is that -
    it doesn't work.  You have given him several chances.  In return
    he has blown it.  Removing yourself, and your child, from him may
    well result in a greater feeling of security for you (fewer "if"s),
    and maybe even a sigh of relief that you can stop putting yourself
    out trying to get this man into your child's life, when it's obvious
    he doesn't want to make the effort to do it in a cooperative and
    helpful way.
    
    -Jody
    

    He has been totally unreliable and has lied to you.  Will he do no less
    for his child?
    
    Protect yourself!  Get a lawyer, ASAP.  
    
    As for me. I'd tell him he couldn't see the baby until after things were
    settled in court, *if* then.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Carol

    The suggestions that you consult a lawyer might seem a little drastic
    at this point, but I do believe that you will find it quite helpful
    in the long run.
    
    First, you need to know what, if any, obligations you have towards
    this man in relation to the child's welfare.  A lawyer could give
    you the options that you might have if you want to cut this man
    totally out of your and your child's life.  Courts are sticky
    now, and what seems to be unfair to the parent doing *all* the
    parenting sometimes doesn't translate well in court.
    
    I would consider doing this before allowing him to see the child
    again.  And I suggest that you have documented proof that his checks
    bounced.  
    
    It can be very destructive emotionally to both the parent and the
    child when faced with this on again, off again behavior of a person
    who has no sense of responsibility or decent behavior.  And as tough
    as it will be on you both, I don't see how you can do otherwise
    than get on with your lives and protect yourself against this man's
    intrusions.   And knowing where you stand legally will help you
    sort out *your* priorities and responsibilities.
    
    Good luck.  Marilyn    
    
    

    KNOWING YOUR SITUATION:::
    
     Get a lawyer to draw up visation rights, child support arrangements,
    get copies of all bounced checks, any proof at all he has deserted
    you and his child.
    
    That is what My boyfriend and I did for our child before I miscarried
    her.  The reason being I didn't want him to claim parenthood, after
    that child had been with me for x years, it really kinda sloves
    any problems that may arise in the future.
    
    Even though you and he never married, your situation kinda reminds
    me of the divorce era, where the parents don't live togther, and
    one wants legal custody and the other wants vistatin rights.
    
    Lets be fair, although he doesn't deserve it PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS!!!
    GET A LAWYER INVOLVED NOW!!!!
    
    Lise

    Talk to a lawyer. Find out where your rights ends and his begin.  It
    varies by state.
    
    In the four states where I know [knew] the pertinent statutes, once you
    accept _any_ support money and acknowledged his paternity you have
    certain obligations to the father.
    
    The closest example to my heart is that of my sister, who cannot get
    sole rights to her daughter because the father expresses an
    _interest_ once every 7-11 months [you can't even petition until 18
    months have gone by with no contact in N.Carolina]. Oh sure, since he's
    a proven abuser of women [notably my sister while pregnant] she has
    court orders to the effect that all visits are supervised by child
    welfare professionals, etc; but she canNOT deny him access. The court
    awarded her support in compensation; however, there's that old saying
    about blood from a rock...N.Carolina is currently suing the state of
    Georgia to try and get them interested in getting three years of
    back-support from him.
    
      Ann
    
    

    Yes, you do need a lawyer.  But also . . . 
    
    Fatherhood isn't something a man does or doesn't deserve, any more
    than motherhood is.  It's just the way biology works.  Whatever
    kind of jerk this man is to you and however little you want to
    have to do with him, this man is and will always be the biological
    father of your child, regardless of whether you later find someone
    special who will be more of a "real" father to your child than
    this man ever could.  
    
    If he had walked out and stayed out, and you'd never seen him
    since, as the father of my oldest (now 15) did, you'd still have
    to deal with his presence in your child's life.  He'll want to
    know about his father, he'll be curious about his father's family,
    he'll wonder why his father left.  You may have to deal with
    feelings of abandonment or occasional charges of "My REAL father
    wouldn't treat me like that!"  
    
    No matter how you work it, it's going to be difficult to come up
    with a situation that protects your right to write this guy out of
    your life and also protects your child's right to know his
    father.  The important thing is to try to separate this man as
    jerk-of-the-year lover from this man as father, and to try to keep
    your feelings about him out of the relationship between the child 
    and his father.  
    
    I know this is brutally difficult.  It's been hard enough for me
    to be fair to Kat's father when she asks about him, and he's not
    around constantly reminding me of why it's a good thing we broke
    up before she was born.  But the child has a right to know both
    his parents, too.
    
    --bonnie

    
    
    My boyfriend is going through a similar situation right now, but
    he is a loving father who wants to be a part of his child's
    life.  The problem is that the mother wants nothing to do with him.
    
    If a child is born out of wedlock in Mass, the mother has 100% legal
    and physical custody right off the bat.  The only way this can be
    changed is if the mother agrees to a change.  In our case she does
    not want to change that so he is pursuing this through the courts.
    
    It makes me sick when I hear of these situations afterall the one
    who suffers the most in the long run is the child.  Consistency
    is key to your child's life.  You can provide her with that, but
    the father clearly can not.  I would suggest going after court
    appointed child support if you really need it and feel that is
    what you want to do.  If you do not have some type of legal agreement
    then he is going to continue to play games with you.
    
    Custody, visitation and child support are all treated as different
    issues with the court.  One does not depend on the other.
    Get yourself a competent attorney and think twice before allowing
    this man to have unsupervised visits with the child.  
    
    I wish you and your child the best of luck and a happy secure future!!
                                                                          
    Michele

    I was in the same situation at one time.  The way I dealt with it is
    even tho I did not want his money and thought I could handle it on my
    own, there were other things to consider, especially when a baby is so
    young for example:
    
    Can you support yourself should you become ill and are out of work?
    "       "        "       "      the baby  "         " "           ?
    
    It took two to tangle, it shouldn't only take one to pay.  I had the
    problem with money as well.  I contacted the local welfare office,
    explained the situation to them and we went into court.  The probate
    office acts as the third party.  They attached his check for the set
    amount, his company automatically sent it to probate and probate sent
    it to me.  I also also awarded partial medical as mine only picked up
    80%.  Regarding visitations, explain to him once what the limits are,
    if he does not abide by them, get a court order, if that is ignored you
    can always get a restraining order put on him.  Also, don't forget now
    the IRS puts an intercept stop on the refund check if he owes back
    support.  You will get it instead, but you must fill out the
    application by August 31, 1989 (here in Mass)
    
    Take care
    pat

    Hi ....
    
    Oh, I'm so sad for you.
    
    Listen, it's to your benefit to stop this nonsense and tell this
    man you want nothing from him.
    
    It seems as though guilt is motivating him, but your child will
    be affected adversely in the long run by having a part-time bum
    for a father.
    
    I know, my mother married a similar jerk, he never supported us.
    She raised us alone (3 kids, one mentally handicapped) for 11 years
    with no support at all other than family and we turned out GREAT!
    All of us have the utmost respect for mom for the sacrifices she
    made for us, none of us ever want to deal with our real father,
    we consider our stepdad to be "dad".  My real father HATES it now,
    not being a part of our lives, but, as he puts it "he made his bed,
    now he has to lay in it" -- and he's right.  We don't love him nor
    do we respect him.
    
    Good Luck, you can do it alone!  Think about it, basically you are
    doing it alone now.  It isn't worth the aggravation dogging him
    for the money when you know the checks will bounce anyway.
    
    Someday you will meet someone special and your child will grow up
    in a healthy environment -- one that you provided without some loser
    hanging around bleeding you dry financially and emotionally.
    
    Tammi
    

	Remember that just because there is a biological link there
	isn't automatically an emotional link.  The father of my
	two children was very erratic in payment and visiting when
	they were younger.  I believed that he would act as a father
	and show interest and emotional support and be there for
	his kids - I was wrong.  His actions set me off constantly
	because I could not understand how he could treat his own
	children the way he did.  The situation was bad for everyone.
	But it was especially it was bad for the kids.

	One somewhat stable parent is better than a situation where
	one parent is unstable and casues the other parent to also
	be unstable.

	_peggy

		(-)
		 |
			Procreation does not make one a 
			"mother" or a "father" beyond the
			biological link.

Randy, please think twice about using such harsh language, even for people not
inside the notesfile. There are pragmatic reasons, such as lawsuits, and
community reasons, such as keeping things as not-too-insulting as possible.
	Mez

RE: .15

    I think  this  approach  is  asking  a  bit much. If the father is
    expected  to pay child support, it doesn't strike me as reasonable
    to  deny him visitation rights. I'd really like to be able to tell
    everyone  I deal with how they have to behave, but I can't justify
    doing so. This sort of approach could cause a lot of men to try to
    avoid paying any support.

--David

    	This isn't much help, but one of the major news broadcasts
    	last night talked about the problem of fathers who do not
    	pay. One segment showed a judge (in court) sending a father
    	to jail. It was mentioned afterwards that, once the fathers
    	hit jail, money starts coming out of the woodwork. The
    	broadcast mentioned that of the 9 put into jail, 8 were now
    	out and paying. The ninth said, "I can't make any money and
    	pay for anything in here." He's still in, as far as I know.
    
    	Also had a segment wherein a mother and the (now) teenage
        children (1 girl, 1 boy) of a nonpaying father talked about
    	the hurt, etc., they went through trying to make ends meet.
    	The one child talked about all the postcards they had received
    	from Europe, etc., while the mother and children were living
    	in a small apartment.
    
    	Not much help for you, I know. But, it seems that some states
    	are getting serious about the problem.
    
    	Scott

    when my x and I split, my daughter was 6 months old.  
    I have never put a limit on his visitation. however there are periods
    of time that he disappears for months. when he finally decided to start
    visiting, he would not show up without calling. when PJ was 5, after
    her dad and promised to visit her and stood her up 4 or 5 times, he
    showed up. she promptly told him that "if he couldn't find the time to
    see her regular, don't come round no more." he looked at me for support
    and I told him that it was between the two of them.  whatever you do,
    my suggestion is to "never" bad mouth the father. no matter what.
    child will find out on their own just what a jerk daddy is without
    the moms assistance.  reality is not always fair, and the sooner
    children learn this, the easier life becomes.  If they see that mom has
    tried everything to get the dad to spend time and they don't, its not
    the moms fault its "his". put the blame where it belongs and don't try
    and take onthe responsibility for his problem. 
    all the above is from my experience only. I cannot speak for other
    women, just myself.
    vivian

	Also, a much cheaper route is available if you are from
	mass -  (They don't deal with visitation stuff though)

	The Massachusetts Department of Revenue - Child Support
	Enforcement Division    1-800-332-2733 for an application.

	This department will:

	o Locate absent parent
	o Establish paternity if child was born out of wedlock
 	o Establish child support order
	o Enforce child support order
	o Collect child support payments and forward to you

	They only cost to you is filing fees.  They always
	notify you first and give you the option of not
	doing something that costs money.  they do not 
	charge you for their time/appearances/their lawyers.

	Send VLNVAX::RWHEELER your mailstop if you want xerox's
	of the instructions that come along with the application

	/Robin