Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Without (sex+love+affection) I *survive*, but as an unfulfilled
    person. I'd call it a need.

    Tricky question.  Some people are happily celibate, some people
    are unhappily celibate, and some people go to great lengths to avoid
    celibacy.  Sex is necessary for the survival of the species but
    not the survival of the individual.
    
    I guess it all depends.  (How's that for a conclusive answer?)

    Sex is a desire. Love and affection are needs. At least that's
    how it is for me.
    
    		Alfred

    Sex is a need in the sense that having pet cats, books to read,
    and music to listen to are needs - needed in order to have a happy
    life.  I might be able to survive without it, but I don't ever want
    to find out.
    
    Lorna
    

    Both or neither depending on the person.

    Also depending on the "time of life" of a particular person:
    I've had times when it was a real basic, fundamental need,
    and times when I enjoyed it but didn't need it, and times
    when I was actively celibate because I wanted to concentrate
    on other things in my life.

    -- Linda

    Need: n. 1. A lack of something required or desirable. 2. Necessity;
             obligation.  3.Something required or wanted; requisite.
             4. Poverty
    
    I agree that 1 and 3 are true for sex.  It's obviously wanted or
    desired.  2  is a little unclear.  I don't think it's a Necessity
    and definately not an obligation.  (4 don't apply)   But seeing
    that Need and Desire are so close in meaning couldn't the desire
    be so strong that it would become a necessity?  I think so, but
    I'd survive without it even if the desire was that strong. (Love
    on the other hand is a proven nessesity of life!!!).
    
    Bill
    

    My vote goes to desire, but simple physical contact (done in affection,
    not a punch in the nose :-> ) for me, is a need.
    
    K.C.

    Re .6, I agree that an individual person can go thru phases of how
    they feel about sex.  For example, when I was in my teens I had
    no need or desire for sex (although I know a lot of people seem
    to at that age-I really didn't), in my 20's sex was a desire that
    occurred only when I met someone in particular whom I desired (if
    nobody desirable was around I didn't seem to miss sex), but ever
    since I turned 30 it has seemed like more of a need (like something
    I'd want to find somebody to do it with-even if I wasn't in a happy
    relationship-which I am now).  I do think people are different.
     Some people appear to be able to live happily without sex for years.
     But, to others (me included) that would seem like a dismal prospect.
    
   Lorna
    

    fwiw,  the TV section of the Globe says that Morton Downey's topic
    tonight is "sexual addiction."  Let the games begin!
    
    	bruce

    well, since we've had fun with the dictionary, let's play with the
    thesaurus...(partial listing of those synonyms which pertain)
    
    NEED:  requirement, demand, want, exigency, necessity, hunger, pine,
    long, thirst, yearn, covet, crave, desire, wish.
    
    DESIRE: long for, choose, covet, crave, desiderate, want, wish,
    hunger, pine, thirst, yearn, fancy, like, aim, aspire, pant
    
    They sound pretty similar to me...and I like how ANIMAL it all
    gets...hunger, thirst, yearn, crave, pant!
    
    -Jody
        

Re .11
    
    fwiw?
    
    K.C.

    short digression
    
    fwiw = For What It's Worth
    
    and fwiw, here's another:
    
    imho = In My Humble Opinion
    
    hope this helps.
    liz

    This is what I put in the Mennotes conference for the same topic.
    Seems to agree very much with Re: 2 here which not many people
    seem to have understood.  May be my note will give a better picture.
    
    
    
    This is interesting just the other day I was thinking 
    about the fact that Humans are one of the few animals
    for whom sex is used as a form of reproduction (necessity)
    and as a form of pleasure (desire).
    
    With this in mind sex is a desire for the existing
    humans but is a necessity for the species in order
    to procreate for survival.  Also this has become more
    complicated by the fact that now articifical methods
    exist in which we can create without sex.
    
    (RUMI) (c).
    P.S. I have not yet introduced myself so don't go looking
        for it :-). 

    RE: -1
    
    	How do we know that animals don't desire or enjoy it?  
    
    
    

    The high pecentage of homosexuality in the animal kingdom leads
    me to believe that animals *do* enjoy sex.

    Ren, having raised chickens and ducks I'm sure that the
    drakes and roosters do, but I'm not sure about the ducks
    and hens! :-)  Bonnie

    When my female cats are "in heat" (interesting euphemism?)
    they are extremely vocal about their desires.  And in case I
    don't understand, their posturing leaves little to the
    imagination about what they want!
    
    I call them my "brazen hussies"  ;-)  ;-)  ;-)
    
    	Pennie

    
    	I believe sexual desire is something everyone comes with - I
    mean, is *born* with as part of the human makeup.
    
    	The desire takes on the characteristics of a "need" when someone
    makes a bond or connection to "sex" that allows them to feel good
    about themselves, i.e. they get some and they can feel good - if they 
    dont...they feel rotten.
    
    	Joe Jas

    Re: 18, 19 etc.
    
>>        about the fact that Humans are one of the few animals
>>    for whom sex is used as a form of reproduction (necessity)
>>    and as a form of pleasure (desire).

    As you will notice again no where did I say Humans are 
    the *only* animals that don't have sex just for reproduction.
    So ...

    According to Woody Allen the need for Love/Sex is a dichotomy; love
    causes tension and sex releases it....so if your in love you may
    need sex.... 

        And Harlan Ellison has a book entitled "Love Ain't Nothing But
    Sex Misspelled"
    
    ASP

    I believe that all relationships at times need sex, but for that
    union to mean anything love must be their desire. In other words,
    sex=need & love=desire. The act of "making love" may be a result
    of need or desire. It (in my mind) is hard grinding sex(need) or
    the truest expression of love (desire). Both result in the same
    "act" but the differance between the two is like night & day.
    
    Being 36 (and male) need ,in my mind, is less the issue and
    desire the goal. How many of you have truely "made LOVE" and 
    then later had sex? Which did you enjoy more? For me it is making
    love that I enjoy more.

    
    I would classify sex as a desire than can turn into need.. I feel
    more confident, self-reliant, happy, loved when I have sex often..
    when I don't have sex enough, I feel kinda down, self-conscious,
    and just don't have my normal giddy happy personality...
    
    It is a desire and not a need, but in order to be happy, and most
    of all happy about myself, I would consider it a kind of need..
    i think it's just the psychological fact of knowing that you can
    make someone feel so good... and they make you feel the same.. 
    
    My answer, I guess.. is both, then... a desire, but a desire that
    can burn into a need.
    
    

    Sex?  If you never had it, you don't miss it.  Once you've had it,
    who wants to live without it?
    
    Personnally, I think about sex rarely, but once a month for a week's
    time, it's all I think about!
    
    I'm in my sexual peak (38) and my husband decides to get a divorce.
    What's a woman to do?
    
    Babies die if they are not touched (from studies done during WWII),
    and I believe adults do, too.  Maybe not in the literal sense, but
    I think we do shrivel up and die if not touched and loved.  Look
    around you.  I see people every day who walk, talk, maybe even laugh;
    if you look closer into their eyes, you will see that they do not
    exist as loving human beings and you see that they have no life
    left in them.
    
    Did they die from lack of sex?  Perhaps.  After all, what is sex
    than another form of communication - initimate communication.
    
    Debbie

    
    Sounds pretty rare to me!  ;^)
    
    Roberta

    Re: 159.29
    
    The average (whatever that is) married couple has sex 2.5 times
    per week.  So, for me to only think about sex 1 week in the month
    is rare - for me.
    
    Debbie

RE: .31

    Does that require coitus interruptus every week if you're married?
    No wonder a lot of people are forsaking marriage. :-)

--David

    Well, Debbie, it didn't get censored, but it got hung
    up on the system..
    
    note rescued by moderator
    
    Bonnie :-)
    
    
               <<< RAINBO::$2$DJA6:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WOMANNOTES-V2.NOTE;1 >>>
                        -< Topics of Interest to Women >-
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Note 159.33                   SEX?  need or desire?                     33 of 34
WLDWST::DREDMONDS                                     0 lines  16-MAR-1989 17:24
                       -< This One Won't Get Censored! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    My first reply to Sex:  Need or Desire was censored for being too
    sexually explicit.  Many times I'm writing as I think so when I
    added my note it was very different from the first.  So different
    that the censorer thought I had toned it down too much.  Sex is
    one of my passions - physically, of course; but more importantly,
    mentally.  I like discussing beliefs and delving  into the mysteries
    of what makes men and women so different and alike.
    
    One of the topics in my censored note dealt with the Chinese Tao
    of Love.  The Chinese have a very different philosophy about sex
    and the male role.  Tempered explicitity:  the male reserves his
    pleasure, only receiving it once every 10 times.  It is believed
    that each time shortens his life.  Reserving his pleasure increases
    hers.  Has anyone out there read the "Ancient Tao of Love"?  Any
    opinions?
    
    Debbie

    
    I did read a book about sex and Taoism, but I can't remember the
    name. It was very interesting, and I definitely think all men should
    read it. It might have been called The Tao of Love.
    
    I dated a Taoist for a short time. Like I said, _all_ men should
    read the book. _Definitely_. 
              
    Roberta

    
    Yes I read the Tao many years ago, that and others dealing with
    the same subject.
    
    Ask my wife, she's the one with the large smile walking throught
    the halls.
    
    Cal.
    

    G'Day,
    
    	It was mentioned that each time a man 'does it' it shortens
    his life.  This is not what I read in a recent series of articles
    in 'Australian Penthouse' titled 'The Tao of Sex' (we do read it
    for the articles :-) ).  Basically what it said was that a man's
    life is supposed to be shortened each time he ejaculates.  Many
    of the Tao methods teach males to enjoy sex without ejaculation.
    This normally has the effect of heightening both his and his partners
    orgasm, probably as the process is usually much slower and done
    with more feeling.
    
    	I recommend the reading of this or other articles on this subject.
    It certainly taught me a few things - and my wife is not complaining!
    
    David.
    
    

    Where can I obtain a copy of this book???  Should make for interesting
    reading for my husband....... me too!  ;^}
    
    Em-el

  I was out book shopping this weekend and in 5 bookstores, including a pretty
avant-garde used bookstore and a public library, not one had this book in
stock.  Of course, this was in Worcester, MA and not Boston, so that might
explain it ...

    You may have more luck at a metaphysical or "New Age" bookstore.
    I know I have seen (and bought) several books on the general topic
    of Taoism and sexuality, tantric sex, etc. I know the Unicorn bookstore
    in Arlington, MA has a large section on men and sexuality.
    
    Tamzen          

re: .41:
    ...I know the Unicorn bookstore
    in Arlington, MA has a large section on men and sexuality.

Directions:  Take Rt 2 East from Rt 128 (or West from Cambridge)
to Park Avenue/Arlington Heights (at the top of the hill).  Turn
North onto Park Avenue (Left if coming from the West), and proceed
about one mile on Park Avenue until you're heading down a steep
hill.

You'll pass a stop light midway down the hill (Florence).  Turn
right at the next street (Oakland).  It goes off at an angle.
(If you miss Oakland, take the next right, which merges with
Oakland.  If you miss that, turn at the stop light (Mass Ave.).

Continue a few blocks, steadily downhill, until you come to
a church on your right and Mass. Ave. angling in from the
left.  The Unicorn bookstore is the large Victorian on your
left (the corner house).

Do note that you're only a half mile from the Chocolate box
(West on Mass. Ave, one block West of Park Ave).

Martin.

    
    
    Hi, i feel that sex is a need in order to feel good,and let the
    orgasm feel good.

    re> the book
    
    If someone, anyone, out there has the book on Taoism would you please
    look it over for the ISBN number so that the rest of us can order
    it from any bookstore.  That way we could all get a little Tao.
    
    (B-)
    bob

    
    I, too, have always been interested in sex and sexuality (and all
    things sensual, at that)....
    
    Comments on the following?
    I get this feeling, reading some of the eager notes aroud Tao
    techniques/principles that people are largely attracted by the
    "how long can it stay up for" syndrome.
    I've yet to meet a man who didn't feel that, if he could "keep
    going" longer, he'd be a better lover.
    
    I'm not convinced that this isn't just another performance myth.
    From my viewpoint, actual length of play in situ (hope this isn't
    too tactful!) doesn't have *that* much to do with it....
    
    What do y'all think?
    
    'gail
    
    

    re .46
    
    If you are saying that length of time isn't everything, I agree,
    it is just part of "overall actions" (for lack of a better words).
    However, when "endurance" is increased, so is the time for the other
    "overall actions"
    
    I think the real issue is not keeping it up for the sake of being
    a marathoner, but rather pleasing one's partner, and if an extended
    stay pleases your partner than you are a better lover. 

    Shop & compare!  8^)

    
    Keep those phone lines ringing!
        
    Our sale was such a success we are forced to "extend" our offer!
    
    Barking Spider Industries has been deluged with calls. Please
    be patient! We will get to each and every one of you...in time.
    
    Don't hang up that phone! Our appointment secretaries will be with
    you momentarily. Please have your Master or Visa card number handy
    and your choice of color for your own personal Ginsu personal
    vibrating machine.
    
    And for a limited time only...Barking Spider is willing to provide
    start-up lessons for an introductory fee of.....
    
    [Steve, you knew I couldn't resist this....didn't you?]
    
    Melinda
                                   

    in re .48 and .49
    
    and Melinda..
    
    
    we know he could be easily gotten on fraudulent advertising
    right?
    
    :-)
    
    Bonnie
    
    
    (I'm sorry I tried to resist and be an adult...but a major
    straight line like that over came my natural resistance.)

    re:.47
    
    I agree as well. I think more often than not, the man, ah... how
    can I put this delicately...arrives at the finish line before the
    woman. So, continuation of action may be to help the woman reach
    the finish line as well. Certainly no ego in that.
    
    --- jerry

     Perhaps liberal use of foreplay would give the woman a suitable
    head start to make reaching the finish line approximately simultaneous.
    ;^)
    
    The Doctah

    re -.51 and -.52 --
    
    And, perhaps with skillful foreplay, the woman can reach the finish
    line and re-run the race again (even several times) before the
    simultaneous finish.      
    
    Think about it. 8-)
    
    Karen

    re .53
    
     Why should she have to "run the race" all by her lonesome? Maybe they
    can both run the race a few times... and then take a day off. :-)
    
    The Doctah

    Aha!!!  Now I know why they call you "The Doctah"._:-)  
    
    My congratulations to your wife (lucky girl).
    
    Mary

    re .54  taking the day off...hmmm gives me an idea for a new Personal
    Name...  

It is a need if you look at its therapeutic value.

The Indian philosophy is based on five senses which are :

smell
sight
sound
taste
touch

Re: 46 The act itself may take few seconds. The use of all these senses
make the act longer and more fulfilling.

I will be happy to discuss the Indian philosophy offline.  Send me mail.

regards,

Girish

         [sigh]
         
         The tenor of this conversation [keeping it up and
         finish lines...] reminds me of one the things I least
         like about sexual performance talks.
         
         Makes one feel like a spark plug..."ever ready" so
         to speak. Or, considering I am of the sex that is
         usually referred to as *needing more time*, perhaps
         I feel more like the wrong size speedometer cable...you
         know when the car is actually going 50mph but you
         are registering 25mph????
         
         I hate to sound altogether out of it, but I was laboring
         under the impression that mutual enjoyment was the
         ultimate intent of making love..whether that included
         or was limited to orgasm or not...or even included
         it upon occasion.
         
         As a Mom, I hope I can implant the thought that pleasure
         and a celebration of special intimacy are the major
         points of interest in sex to my young male person...not
         "RBI's" or "BLOB's"...
         
         You don't need two people to have an orgasm...but
         it sure makes it easier to feel loved and safe.
         
         Melinda