Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    I actually *loved* turning 30.  I felt much more adult, more worldly,
    more sophisticated being in my 30s than in my 20s.  Everything has
    its price.  What you loose in sexiness you gain in respect and that,
    for me at least, has been a definite plus, both career-wise and
    socially.  The 30s have seemed to me the absolute best of both worlds,
    the peak of life where one is young enough to still look good and
    old enough to be wise.  But then I'm not too worried about 40 or
    50, either.  Making sure I have work that supports and satisfies me is 
    all I absolutely require and wrinkles are irrelevant there.  
    
    And maybe the phone doesn't ring as much as it did before, but now that 
    I'm in my 30s, I'm not afraid to pick it up and do the calling!  ;-)

    The only pertinent topics (which I also pointed out in the Crones
    topic, but for your viewing pleasure represent in their complete
    entirety here) I found were....
    
    Womannotes-V1
    603 - growing old
    
    Human_Relations
    651 - growing older
    
    -Jody
    

    I am 9 months away from turning 30 and I agree with you. But I think 
    this is a dreaded age for both men and women. 
    Another thing I have noticed is that there seems to be a get married
    and have a baby RUSH at about the age of 30.

    Whta's all this fuss about 30. It's only the prelude to 40,where
    everybody knows LIFE BEGINS.
    
    Me thinks you take a dim view life is what you make and you are
    only as old as you think

    The big 3-0?? Thirty is a big deal? Wow, I never looked at it that
    way. 18 was a big deal because then I could vote. 21 was nothing
    as it didn't let me do anything I couldn't do before. 30 was kind of
    nice because then I started to feel I was finally old enough to consider
    myself an adult. Now (a few years latter but still a few from 40)
    I'm thinking that maybe 40 is when you become an adult. The next big
    deal birthday is 65.

    ~Cliff

    I turned 30 earlier this month.  Yes, this has been hard for me
    to adjust to.  Right before I turned 29 someone I worked with said
    "You know, you are actually in your 30th year" This sent me slidding
    down!  Then on my 29th birthday someone asked how old I was and
    when I said 29 they rolled with laughter and said ok now the truth.
    I was insulted.
    
    I can't describe why 30 bothers me, maybe because it feels like
    leaving youth behind.  Yes, all of a sudden I don't feel sexy,
    attractive, etc. (these things were never important to me before)  
    I am married with 2 children and I feel like now I have to settle 
    down to suberbia, we bough our first house this past year and it 
    all adds up!
    
    If you find the answer to this general feeling of loss, please share
    it!  It didn't help when the girl that babysits for us asked how
    old I was and when I said 30 she said "That's all?"  Help!!!!!!
    

    I think personal situation and external events can have a great impact
    on this experience. For example, a career disappointment or the death
    of a parent can make the next occuring "decade" seem especially
    oppressive, whichever it happends to be. The effect can be subtle and
    delayed, and even subconscious, so the cause may not be obvious.
    
    		- Bruce

    I just had to reply to this because 30 hit me hard and very much
    surprized me.  I thought it was going to be no big deal, but I spent
    much of the day walking around in a stupor.  Then I ran into a friend
    of a friend who said essentially "yeah, I remember 30.  That's the 
    magic age where I expected my whole life to fall into place.  You
    question everything when you turn 30 - is this the job I want to be
    working in, is this the relationship I want to continue, do I want to
    raise children, ... basically, is this the life I want to lead?"  
    
    These were the things that were haunting me, but I couldn't quite put
    my finger on.  Once I realized that these questions were always there,
    would always be there, and probably would never be totally answered,
    it made the day (and the year) go a whole lot easier.
    
    I think you have to figure out what your hidden expectations for that
    age are and resolve them in one way or another.  It is, after all,
    just another day.
    
    					Mair
    

    Try reading "Passages" by Gail Sheehy.  It may make you a little
    more gentle with yourself and the changes that occur with the decades.

    I vividly recall going through the entire year between my 29th and
    30th birthdays in a state of quiet 'Oh my God, how can I be this
    old' panic.  I wasn't looking forward to that birthday, at all.
    No specific reason, nothing but a sense that now I was *really,
    truly* going to be a grown-up.  At the time I was divorced and raising
    an 8 year old, working our way to a mutually satisfactory joint physical
    custody arrangement, owned my home, etc, etc.  I mean I really was
    an adult already.
    
    Then the birthday actually got there, and I wasn't any different
    than I had been the day before.  Presto, all the panic, worry and
    doubt was gone.  
    
    Alison

    Hmmm.  I just turned 28 3 weeks ago and already I am dreading the
    big 3 0.  I kid my sister about it because she is going to turn
    30 in 4 months.  Then she kindly reminds me that I'm only 15 months
    behind her.  I don't feel like I am going to be 30 in the not too
    distant future.  I feel great but still dread it.  I feel and look
    better than I did when I was 18 (been working out for the past 3
    years, non stop).  Don't have any grays.  I feel 23, not 28.  One
    girl at my gym, 19 years old, said to me one day "Wow, I can't believe
    how you dress, you dress like me!".  I just laughed.  I said "Well
    how should I dress, like an old lady, I'm OOOOONNNNLLYYYY 27 3/4's.
    I was the exact same way.  When I was 21, most of my friends that
    I worked with were 25 and I gave them a lot of crap.  Now, I'm past
    the age they were when I was making fun of them.  I guess I deserve
    the kidding that I get now.  One thing that makes me feel good,
    is my younger brother, just turned 26, is about 40% gray, I have
    none.  I am really dreading turning 30 but just keep reminding myself
    that you are as young as you feel.  
    
    Pam

    No big deal--no real difference between 30 and 29 or 26 or 31 or 22
    or...  I think the hype is purely media-made.  Have you noticed the
    number of birthday cards that refer to getting old (as if that's a
    horrible thing to have happen to you).
    
    The old (no pun intended) ageism again.
    
    Really, it can be fun to be celebrated on your birthday.  And it's one
    of those days of reflection like New Year's Day.  When 30 was coming, I
    said to myself, "No giving in to feeling like an old bag at this age." 
    Ok, so maybe I had those thoughts, but probably for no more than ten
    minutes total throughout that year.  And when 31 came, my skin dried
    out.  That's it--a prune--never to be smooth and silky again (was I
    ever?).  BAH!  My birthday happens to be at the end of Oct., when the
    air also dries out.  The dry skin just got a little more severe this
    time and I had to change moisturizers.  And I think before going out
    into the summer sun without major sunblock.  Not much of a change.
    
    <flame on>  I WILL NOT GIVE IN TO THIS (AMERICAN) IDEAL THAT YOUTH IS
    EVERYTHING.  I NEVER WANT TO BE A TEENAGER AGAIN--WHO NEEDS THAT MUCH
    TENSION?  I RESENT THE MEDIA'S ATTEMPT TO MAKE ME FEEL BAD ABOUT BEING
    FEMALE, OVER 30, HAVING BODY HAIR, NOT PLUCKING MY EYEBROWS (they're
    genetically scheduled to fall out anyway), BEING ATTRACTED TO MEN AND
    WOMEN, HAVING A BRAIN, BEING A FEMALE INTERESTED IN CARS AND OTHER
    MACHINES (not appliances), LOOKING FORWARD TO BEING A CRONE, ETC.  AND
    I SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT I WILL PICK ROLE MODELS BASED ON BRAINS, COURAGE
    AND ATYPICAL BEAUTY (God, wasn't Amelia Earhart a knockout?!) AND THAT
    I WILL RAISE CHILDREN AND TREAT OTHERS AS INDIVIDUAL PERSONS AND NOT
    ON HOW THEY COMPARE WITH GENDER-ROLE-IDEALS. <flame off>
    
    Thanks, I needed that.  And I need you folks if I'm going to live up to
    this.
    
    Nancy
     

    Well I'm looking 40 in the face and 30 don't look so bad from here!
    :*) I just don't feel that old and keep wondering when I'll grow up.
    Inside in a lot of ways I still fell like a school girl, more
    cynical but still romantic and hoping.

    I've noticed a lot of mention of gray hair, I LOVE mine. It changed
    my mousey dark blonde to silver and gets me lots of compliments. I
    wouldn't wash it away for the world - yeah, gray power! liesl

	I've already explained (in a rather firm voice in at least one case)
that I do not want a big deal made out of my 30th birthday, and I will walk
out of any surprise party anyone attempts to throw.

	It has exactly nothing to do with turning thirty.  It has to do with
other people thinking that 30 is a big deal.

						--D

    I am eternally grateful to everyone who has shared their feelings about
    this!  I certainly feel much, much better! Thank you so much! (of
    course, ask me 7 months from now and I may say differently!) I guess
    it is the pressure from family and society that if you aren't married
    by the time you are 30....forget it, there is no hope.  That all the
    "good men" are taken, and no one will want you.  Why this age has such
    a negative connotation associated with it beats me.  Thank God for
    shows like "Murphy Brown," "thirtysomething" (which I used to hate
    until the episode on video dating....boy could I relate!) where it is
    ok to be single and a professional with no steady relationship or 
    husband.   Thanks again folks!

    Geezz.. 30?  I'm counting the days until I can turn 42!!!...  
    
    I want to be 42 so bad at times, I can't stand it!!!...  
    
    30 - piece of cake... :-)

    On my thirtieth birthday I was interviewing for my current job --
    the start of my career in computer science.  This was after years
    of "pretending" to be an artist.  I consider the thirties my age
    of possibilities.
    
    And I, too, love my grey hairs.  I think they give me character.
    
    Karen.

    Personally, I am looking forward to turning 30.  I am short and very 
    young looking.  I get carded whereever I go, even though I've been
    married for almost 9 years and have a 7 yr. old child.  Of course, if I
    go WITH them, I'm not.
    
    Whenever I start a new position, people think I'm just out of high
    school.  Somehow, the thought of turning 30 sounds more mature, stable,
    and I feel that people will take me more seriously.
    
    I already FEEL 30, I'm just waiting to physically get there.
    
    Susan

    I've been looking forward to turning thirty for quite some time
    now but then again people think I'm older anyway.  The only thing
    that bothers me about turning thirty is that everybody these days
    is thirtysomething, eating oatbran (still), and listening to classic
    hits radio (how many times can you listen to HEARD IT THROUGH THE
    GRAPEVINE).  Not me I'm keeping the edge.
    
    	"NEVER TRUST ANYONE OVER THIRTY" from a guy who is 29 yrs, 6mos. 

        As I approached thirty I was worried that I might become
        very depressed on reaching it.  But the day came and went
        and nothing really happened.
        
        You will get your first "getting old" birthday card then,
        though. :-)
        
        Dan

    re.20 Don't worry, some of us over-30 types still like
    bacon-and-aggs and damn the cholesterol. Some of us listen
    to Smithereens and the Del Fuegos and (occasionally, when
    there's nobody to see) Guns & Roses :-)

    Kat still hasn't forgiven me for "blasting Megadeath" on the car
    radio . . . hey, it was a good song!  They're a good group!
    
    The point being that just because you're a certain age, you don't
    have to behave the way the media is trying to tell you people of
    that age are supposed to behave.  Do what you like, do what's
    right for you, and feel sorry for the people who think they have
    to act grown up.
    
    I figure if my grandmother can be 78 without ever growing up, I
    don't have to give up at 36!
    
    --bonnie

    re. last couple
    
    ain't that the truth! at 33, it seems a little strange turning into
    `groupie' status...but that's what i feel like after seeing the indigo
    girls in concert twice in the last 10 days. 
    
    ~robin

Actually, The big 3-0 didn't bother me all that much..it was a couple weeks
ago when I turned 32 (that's really 29 and 36 months) that I started feeling
wierd. Or it was really during the Music Awards when Guns 'n' Roses accepted
their award and slobbered all over the place. My first thought was what a
coupla jerks they were...then my second thought was that I probably would
have thought it was funny about 15 years ago..my third thought was ohmygawd
I'm getting soooo old. I occasionally get wierded out with thoughts of "what
am I doing spending my life working in this place just so I can have money
when I retire" And then I think geeeez, I'm too old to start something new
I'm stuck here...blah blah... but when I go home I discover that I'm still
not too old to crank up the stereo and play the air guitar in my living room...

I guess I'll never really grow up...

Jenna

    re Robin, wanna please send 'em out west again, please please?
    I wasn't watching the listings and missed 'em in December!
    
    But re 30, coming up in less than two years...was reminded of it
    at the Warfield Saturday night, watching the rockers all decked in
    leather and decolletage.  Most of the crowd looked younger...the
    lead singer was an absolute toohpick.  At least I got into the music!
    
    DougO

    re .17
    
    Gale, I think 42 is definitely worth the wait! (But I've forgotten
    the question };)

    The 13th was my mildly traumatic birthday.  Most of the ones after I
    graduated from college have produced slightly weird feelings; I keep
    waiting to turn into a grown up.  It's started to feel less weird
    lately.  I'm not finding myself rapidly changing beyond all
    recognition, so I think I can handle this getting older stuff. 
    Actually, I'm one of those people who knows my age but has to stop and
    think to make sure it's right.  It's not the birthday I notice so much
    as the fact that another one is coming up.

   re: .28
   
   EXACTLY!!!!  I've given up on being a grown up.  If it happens at all,
   I'll be too old to appreciate it.  The big crossroads for me was 27,
   after which I could never be a fighter pilot.  In retrospect, I don't
   think I missed much!
   
   Jim (getting more distinguished every day - hah!)
   

    Well, I have less than three weeks to go!  I've been half dreading it. 
    Then I started thinking about things, and I wouldn't want to relive any
    age I've already been.  I can honestly say that every year has gotten
    better since I turned 20.
    
    I did say to someone, "When you're 18, you think you're so grown up. 
    Then when you turn 21, you realize how young you were at 18.  Then when
    you turn 25, you realize how young 21 was.  Then when 30 loom, you
    realize, `Sh**, I'm getting old!'"
    
    A friend turned 30 in January, and I said, "Congratulations!  You've
    just started your fourth decade!"  Then we both gagged.
    
    But I have seriously started thinking about things.  I, too, feel
    pressure about still being single.  When my niece and nephew ask if I'm
    *ever* going to get married, I say, "Maybe; maybe not."
    
    I've realize in the last month or so that I know myself better than I
    did before.  I know what I like, I know what I believe, I am capable of
    forming my own opinions and open-minded enough to listen to others'.
    
    As for all those comments about being less sexy - get out of here! 
    That's my goal for 1990 - to become much sexier!  ;-)  Seriously, I'm
    more comfortable with my looks, my attitudes, my entire self, therefore
    I *am* more attractive and sexier.  If you feel good about yourself, it
    shows in your appearance.
    
    However, I'll write again after my birthday, and we'll all find out if
    I was just appeasing myself! :-)
    
    Susan

    I never had a problem with 30.  And, its taking so darn long to get
    through the thirties, that it sneaks up gradually enough that it never
    really gets my attention and shakes me up.
    
    But it did pull me up short when I realized that I've been a programmer
    since "*** THE SEVENTIES ***" and that the first DECADE of my
    professional career ended last month.  Age itself is no big deal, but
    these metrics that "help" you put things in perspective... whew!
    
    But, it seems each day is more fun than the next.  New people to meet,
    new places to go and things to do.  If age is the price, at least I'm
    getting a good return on my investment!
    
    Jim
    

RE:        <<< Note 960.32 by HANDY::MALLETT "Barking Spider Industries" >>>

>    
>    	 I've noticed that since I turned 30 (a few years ago), I'm 
>    	 more prone to considering this kind of really important stuff.
>    	 I also find I no longer feel guilty about watching Roller Games
>    	 and old Gilligan's Island re-runs.  If this isn't maturity and
>    	 wisdom, I don't know what is.

Steve, did you really think you could get away with this one???  I
think its called senility, not maturity but I don't rememeber!  ;-)

john

    Maybe that was a freudian slip and I've discovered some fundamental
    truth.  I'll consider it tonight while watching Gilligan's Island
    (Everybody over 30 watches it, don't they.  I thought i was rite of
    passage).
    
    Jim
    

    I don't know about others, but I thoroughly enjoyed my thirties!
    I learned more about myself, and accomplished more during those
    years than at any other time of my life.  Now, at almost 43, I can
    say that each age group is uniquely and wonderfully different--the
    secret is to relax and appreciate each time in your life and learn
    from how far you've come.
    
    Best Wishes for the upcoming BEST Ten years of your life!
    
    Barb

    Well, I turn 30 next Wednesday (2/21).  Alot has happened the past
    year....I met my husband, married my husband, and am now trying
    to re-locate to Georgia and will live in a new place and have a new
    job, friends.  
    
    My 20's got me to where I am today.  When you're a kid you always
    have dates and goals set and I think that's why 30 can be so
    depressing for some people, especially when you didn't meet those
    goals.
    
    My husband is going to be 26 in March and it bothers me some but
    why be bothered with things out of my control.  He starts 8 years
    of med school next fall (gee, mom always said the 30's would be
    easier!) so I have some interesting times ahead, but I wouldn't
    give back a day...I wouldn't be who I am today.  I feel relieved
    for some reason, too.  In your teens you go through major changes
    in your life about every 6 months to a year.  In your twenties
    it's about 2 years.(By changes I mean job, friends, living
    environment, hobbies, etc.)  In your 30's they space out some....
    about every 5-6 years.  Kind of like your style of living can hold 
    your attention longer.
    
    I don't want to get old but I'm healthier now than when I was 22.
    I'll never understand why 30 sounds so much older than 29.  It's
    only 12 months later.
    
    Kristen

    Today's my 30th birthday (and thanks to everyone who sent
    e-mail wishing me happy birthday!), and in regards to the
    basenote, all I can say is that I haven't felt the way you
    describe yourself feeling.  (Although I don't make any
    promises about how I might feel in ten years!)  I keep
    wondering if I'm going to feel grown up sometime :), and
    knowing that at least now I don't have to worry about going
    "prematurely" gray. ;)

    Sometimes people have fears about "significant" dates because
    a parent or older sib had a bad experience about that time.
    Perhaps your (the basenoter's--sorry to be responding so
    late!) mother had a traumatic experience around 29 or 30...?
    On the more practical side, I've been making an effort to do
    things for *myself* during the last several months, like
    taking a self-defense class, and signing up for a course in
    women's spirituality.  This could be part of the reason why
    30 hasn't been bothering me. 

    -- Linda

    My major dilema is that I am the last of many, MANY cousins to be
    married.  I think our society still puts a stigma on women who are
    not married by the time they are 30.  My sister got in under the
    gun at 29 and 11 months.  My mother at 25 and 11 months.
    
    Based on the positive responses from this note, and the
    more-than-usual-self-indulgent treats I have given myself lately,
    I must admit I don't feel as panicky anymore.  It is reassuring to
    know you aren't the only one going through something and were there
    aren't as many women as men at DEC, it is even more significant that
    this note and notesfile exists.

	My SO has a wood engraving hanging on the bedroom wall which I 
    particularly like.


	Pick an age you like and stay there!

					mkowa

    Today I'm 30...hard to believe it came so fast.
    
    I woke up this morning thinking my body would hurt or something....
    had to laugh at myself.
    
    Just another day, I 'spose.....except maybe one more wrinkle or
    gray hair appeared worrying about being 30....
    
    Now that it's come and (almost) gone, I'm glad.  Now I can worry
    about real problems....like: will the Brady Bunch reruns ever be
    removed from the air? (What a frightening thought!)
    
    Kristen
    

    Dear C_MILLER-
    
    	I have the same deep and terrible fears. And I just turned
    	the big 3-1.
    
    

    
    just fixed a cup of tea...the Salada 'tag' reads:
    
    "Forty is the old age of youth;
    Fifty is the youth of old age."
    
    maybe thirty isn't so bad after all????
    
    deb
    (soon to be 35...)
    

    Re .42, thanks, just what I needed to hear, since I just turned
    40 in October! :-)
    
    I think 40 is the beginning of middle-age. :-(  It's fine to say
    you're as old as you feel, etc., but sometimes people in their 20's
    can make me feel pretty old.  I think people under 30 treat me
    different now that I'm 40, like I'm not one of them, but one of
    their parents generation or something.  (There are a couple of
    exceptions to this. Certain people who don't seem to treat others
    different because of age.)
    
    Turning 30 is nothing!  You're mere babies.  Just wait 10 yrs. and
    it gets really scary.  (For example if you're still single you find
    out most men under 60 don't date women over 40!)
    
    It's amazing how much a person can age between 30 and 40, too. 
    Ten yrs. ago I looked 23, now I look 40!
    
    Lorna
    

>    Ten yrs. ago I looked 23, now I look 40!
    
     Liar. :-)
    
    The Doctah

    Re: 43  Now isn't THAT something to look forward to!

    Lorna
    
    in re looking 40 - well when people say that I don't look over
    40 my reply is 'this is what over 40 looks like.'! But you definitely
    are a young 40 ;-)
    
    Bonnie

    RE .46

    But when you say that, you're probably denying Gloria Steinem royalty
    income on the quote (though she used it at 50).

    
    I turned 38 today.  hmmm how do I feel?  well, I have been sick for the
    last couple of days so today, I'm just glad I'm not as sick as I was. 
    before today, I kept thinking, ok, you're getting close to 40, time to
    get rid of old baggage so that when you hit 40, everything is new. 
    well, I think I'll just do that "house cleaning" starting today
    instead.  why wait?  
    
    vivian