Conference turris::womannotes-v2

 I can't think of any particular issues on which I've had a complete reversal
in thinking offhand, but I have definitely been affected by the various 
discussions. I would say that I have certainly had some opinions modified as
a direct result of some of the arguments put forth in this forum. I've even
had some people comment on the change I've undergone. ;^)

 I'll try to think of some concrete examples (and I imagine I'll get some mail
reminders. :-)

 The Doctah

	Well, Herb, I replied to 943.0 with a converse answer prior to
	seeing this topic.  So I've deleted 943.1 and re-posted it here.

	My opinions and perceptions have been greatly affected by certain
	members of this conference on a very positive basis.  Because of
	WOMANNOTES, I have become aware of society's treatment of women,
	I understand what the ERA is all about, I've learned what women
	in the previous generation have gone through to ensure my rights
	as a woman today, and I have realized that "feminist" is _not_ a
	dirty word.

	A lot of it is my own blossoming maturity and awareness, but a 
	lot of it has also been catalyzed by discussions here in WN by 
	strong, marvelous, intelligent, don't-walk-on-me women.

	Thank you, all.

	Carla

    Prior to reading some of Nancy Bittle's responses to the gun protection
    topics, I was pro-gun control.  Now I'm anti-gun control, though still
    uncomfortable with the thought of all the potential crazies in the
    world owning guns and certainly not going to own one myself.  Guess I
    modified my opinion just enough to allow some one else the right to
    their own opinion on the topic.  And, no, I don't feel strongly enough
    about it to lobby against gun control.  But I would vote against it.
    
    Karen

Opops, I responded to 943 before I saw this, and as I said there, yes, my
opinions have changed due to information, arguments and individual view-
points presented here.

No, I have never *reversed* a strong view because of something someone said
here.  But I have often come to greater understanding for/empathy with the
opposing view.  And on issues where I am sitting on the fence, discussions
here have often promted me to lean to one side or the other, or perhaps even
get *off* the fence to some degree, even if I was leaning to the other side
at the start of the discussion.

Case in point.  When Rachel McCaffrey started the Women in Combat topic a
year ago, I was sort of opposed to the idea, but didn't have much information.
Through the public conversation and private conversation I had with her, I 
changed my opinion, and find I am defending *her* position in the new Women
in Combat discussion.

Another example is the guns note.  Before I was on the fence, leaning slightly
toward the "gun control side".  Now I am still on the fence, leaning slightly
to the other side.  (Don't bother trying to get me off the fence...the 
subject is not of enough interest to me to get down.)

I think people are often slow to *admit* they are wrong, or that their views
have changed, but argument can be effective, because over time, the arguments
you present to them can help shape their views as they evolve.

D!

    Wow, Herb, I don't know if I can even begin to say all the ways that
    people's notes in here and a few other conferences have affected my
    opinions, or changed the way I thought about things.
                          
    From V1 of the conference (no, I wasn't around then, but I read it
    during the summer of '88) I learned amazing things.  The note on Fear.
    The endless discussions on 'invalidating someone's opinion', which
    finally registered.  The meaning of the word 'feminist' which one very
    prominent member here used to argue quite forcefully the other way (she
    used to reject using that word to describe herself, and now very
    forcefully argues for it.)  Pornography.  Objectification.  'space' for
    expressing oneself.  Dealing with rape.  And this version has continued 
    to explore important ground.
    
    I was fortunate in that I was engaged in the process already of
    examining my own attitudes, after finally having left the Air Force; I
    was already consciously trying to figure out how I had been formed and
    how I might have been distorted by that experience, and trying to
    understand my prejudices and overcome them.  Womannotes (and a few
    other files) provided an excellent forum to stimulate my own thinking
    on these matters.  My own approach to emotional health and
    understanding (and remaking) who I am has been enormously enhanced by
    my participation here, my exposure to varied opinions in open dialogue.
    
    If you want specific exchanges...perhaps I can refer you to the last
    few notes in the first dialogue I ever joined.  I asked Sandy C (oh,
    death-defyingly) if her words implied that she hated men.  She showed
    me that if my professed goal was understanding women, I'd get a lot
    further if I tried to put myself in women's shoes to understand their
    words, than by asking if they hated men.  It was around 109.88-.89.
    She was right.  I have consciously tried, ever since, to understand
    what people meant by attempting empathy, *before* I asked challenging
    or ridiculing or leading questions.  (in most cases ;-).
    
    DougO

    I feel my views on gun-control have changed in large part due to
    Nancy Bittle's defense of the subject. Certainly my views of men
    have changed as I've watched them in various discussions in this
    file.

    The discussions of anger and how it is percieved when expressed by a
    woman has had a great affect on me and my views about the anger I
    feel over certain issues. I'm learning it's OK to get mad when
    someone has mistreated me emotionally and that I have as much right
    as a man to be angry in some situations.

    But most of all, the support and affrimation that I have recieved
    from the members of this file, both male and female, has helped me
    along the road to accepting myself and feeling valued. After 15
    years of marriage where I was shown numereous times that I was not
    of value and nothing I ever did was good enough the people here have
    helped me change my opinion about myself. liesl

    I hope I'm wrong, but the almost identical questions in two adjacent
    basenotes seemed quite hostile, both in general, and in respect to the
    dialogues in =wn=, and I will stick my neck out and say that (hmmmm,
    this sounds like a familiar theme. Why do I feel alone?)
    
    
    HERB: 
    What is your problem? What is your concern? Why should people "sign in"
    to you?
    
    	- Bruce

    Bruce, if we must pick over people's motivations, lets do it in the
    processing topic, where Herb already mentioned (15.770) his agenda.
    
    DougO

    Ren Foster's 75.20 changed my outlook on Valuing Differences
    considerably.
    
    Marge

    I guess this counts for a change of opinion. Between this note and
    my SO, I decided that searching for my birthmother would be a good
    idea. For all my life I never wanted to look, I felt that it was
    an impossible task and didn't want to waste my time trying. Reading
    the Adoption note here did change my opinion on the ease of finding
    my natural parents. 
 
    With the help received from Laura Ervin I conducted the search
    and found my birth mother. I'm glad I changed my mind about
    the importance of doing a search.

    Gail

    I don't know if it's been changed so much as broadened and tempered. 
    When I first joined Digital, I checked out Womannotes and quickly left
    because it seemed so -- stereotypical.  Not that people were
    stereotyping, but that people were behaving just like stereotypes.  So
    I fled to Soapbox, where people are wildly unpredictable....  But
    Bonnie coaxed me back and it's much better the second time around.
    
    Mostly I think it was that I hadn't been around people outside of my
    own generation.  It's *very* informative for a "youngster" to be around
    some "battle-weary veterans."  Now, though I don't have a lot of
    "history" myself, I'm at least a lot more understanding of the history
    of others.
    
    Oh, yeah.  I used to use he/him for third person singular pronouns 
    because that was "proper grammar" and I tend to have this thing about
    tradition and propriety (who'da thunk it?).  Now I just avoid third
    person singular like the plague.  I even use her/his instead of
    his/her.  (As I explained to someone, I'm tired of always getting
    second billing....)

    I haven't so much changed my opinions as become aware of how
    much I take them for granted, and how many people do not/can
    not. 
    
    ("Of course everybody is free and has equal rights .
     What's the big deal ?") 
    
    I now know that a great many people haven't that 'of course' 
    sense-of-the-world I'm lucky enough to have. And I see that 
    my luck stems from an 'accident of birth', being born 
    white and male. Hopefully we'll all be able to say someday,
    "Of course we're all free and have equal rights. How else could 
    it be ?"
    
    Dana