Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    
    I have a few thoughts for you.  It would seem to me that there are only
    2 reasons why this woman would decide not to become intimate with you.
    One being that she is simply not attracted to you and two being that
    she is attracted to you, thouroughly enjoys your company but is afraid
    to become intimate.  What I mean by #2 is that, should something happen
    between you, she would no longer be able to ignore her feelings for you
    and then if you decided NOT to leave your family, she would be left
    alone and hurt.  I would guess from the things you have done together
    that reason #1 is invalid.  Personally, I am engaged and if some man
    whom I was friendly with told me that he was in love with me, I would
    avoid him. ( Unless I was attracted to him. )  This is why I think that
    she is attracted to you.  
    Furthur support for hypothesis #2: every woman has heard over and over
    about being "the other woman".  The scenario generally goes that "the
    other woman" falls hook, line and sinker for this married man.  Then
    the married man remembers why he married his wife in the first place
    and dumps "the other woman".  Also, if this woman really likes you, she
    may feel that if anything physical were to happen the intrigue would be
    over for you and you would stop seeing her.
    
    Solution : (and this may be more advice than you bargained for)
    
    If you are so unhappy with your wife that you were able to fall for
    another woman, then you should be fairly certain that you don't want to
    spend the rest of your life with her.  Also, I've found a good rule to
    follow is 'never leave one person for another.  Leave one person
    regardless of another.'  So, if you would leave your wife "for her"
    then perhaps you should evalute if you would leave your wife "for you". 
    If you leave your wife for this woman and it doesn't work out, your
    family is still gone.
    
    Question:
    I am getting married in 4 months.  Why did you fall for another woman? 
    How can I avoid that happening?  (You can mail me a note if you'd
    rather.)  
    
    Please take this all well.  I meant to help.
    Rachael
    

    
    ADDENDUM:
    what I meant by the line "if I were attracted to him" was a sentiment
    from my single days.  In the present tense, even if I were attracted to
    someone, if they told me that they loved me, I would avoid them.  I
    don't think that sexual tension should be encouraged in a work
    environment or with people other that your spouse.  (sense some
    idealism?)
    
    That's all
    

    Re .1, interesting.  I think it's possible that she might not be
    attracted to him.  It is possible for a woman to really enjoy a
    man's company (just like a girlfriend) and still not be physically
    attracted enough to want to have sex.  It's possible that his
    friendship and companionship fulfills a need for her, but that she
    just isn't physically attracted.  Another possibility could be that
    she is using his attraction for her in order get to go on these
    weekend outings.  (I guess that might depend on her financial
    situation, and his.  If his is a lot better than hers, it's a
    possibility that she's using him for free recreation, but doesn't
    want to have to include sex.)  Of course, it's also possible that
    she is attracted but that she's afraid of getting hurt, or that
    she thinks its really a horrible thing to have sex with a married
    man.  It depends on how conventional her morals are.
    
    I think that, on the surface, it's easy to tell .0 that he shouldn't
    leave his wife for another woman.  But, I don't think life is always
    that clear cut and simple.  It could be that if he can't have this
    particular woman he's fallen in love with, that he'd just as soon
    live with his present wife forever.
    
    I do think, though, that if .0 feels he cannot control himself much
    longer, and the woman in question does not want to have sex
    with him, then he should stop inviting her on these little outings.
    Why keep creating the situation unless she changes her mind about
    sex?
    
    Lorna
    

    To echo what was said in .1, if you *would* leave your
    wife, then *do* so.
    
    For myself, I won't get involved with someone who's 
    already involved elsewhere. 'Get yourself free, then we'll
    talk.' Maybe she's waiting for you to assert yourself with
    actions and not just words. Or maybe she isn't too keen
    on a guy with a 'fallback position'.
    
    

    Lorna,
    
    I guess you're right, but I think the woman would have to be sort of
    cruel to either hang out with him for free recreation or because he
    fills some need in her.  I mean if she was really his friend and she
    wasn't attracted to him, then wouldn't she avoid him, for his benefit?
    It seems like she's encouraging him to be in love with her.  If she has
    no intensions of ever returning that emotion, that seems pretty cruel.
    
    I agree.  If .0 can't control himself anymore, then he should avoid the
    situation.  
    
    I don't understand how .0 could fall in love with another woman unless
    he was already out of love with his wife.  I mean, if he was in love
    with his wife, he should never have gone out for drinks and dancing
    with this woman.  I guess I could understand if he and his wife were no
    longer intimate with each other and he was looking for a purely
    physical relationship, but that doesn't sound like that's all he's after.
    
    Rachael
    

    
    Another thought:
    If he still loves his wife, then why did he post this problem on a
    network where anyone in digital can read it an figure out who he is?
    Maybe his wife doesn't know anyone at Digital?
    Also, how could he get away for several weekends all without his wife
    knowing?
    My point is that if he was still in love with his wife, wouldn't he be
    more worried about her finding out?
    
    Rachael
    

    
    as an extremely happy married man who falls in love with 'other
    women' all the time, i would suggest you tell her as openly and
    clearly as possible. then, don't be surprised if she says something
    like, 'but you're *married*'. this means that she probably senses
    that getting involved with you would probably be a bad idea.
    

    
    .7
    He already had told her.
    
    And what do you mean?  You are a happily married man who falls in love
    with other women all of the time.  Do you and your wife have an open
    marriage?  If not, aren't you being unfaithful to your wife by having
    affairs of the heart ( or affairs period)?
    Or do you mean that you just find lots of women attractive?
    
    Rachael
    

re .5 and a couple of others

>    I don't understand how .0 could fall in love with another woman unless
>    he was already out of love with his wife...

    I'm hypothesizing, but based on the people I know...I
    generally use "in love" or "falling in love" to mean that
    giddy, dizzy, wonderfully excited feeling you get when you're
    attracted to someone who is (usually) attracted to you.  And
    I generally use "I love <person>" to mean the act of will
    involved in having a caring, growing relationship with said
    person.  For example, I love my sister...but I'm not in love
    with her! 

    I don't see why .0 couldn't be "in love" with both his wife
    and another woman at the same time.  Some people who are "in
    love" seem never to fall "in love" with someone else at the
    same time; others of us (like me) seem to have no trouble
    having that giddy "in love" feeling about several people at
    the same time.  It doesn't necessarily mean that I pursue sex
    with whoever I am "in love" with (the feeling itself is often
    more fun and usually much less work!), nor does it
    necessarily mean that I will pursue a loving non-sexual
    friendship with such a person, although I usually do.  I
    simply don't see any conflict between the *feeling* of being
    "in love" with several people while *choosing the action* of
    monogamy with one particular person whom I both love and am
    in love with. 

    It is quite easy, in our culture, to confuse "love" and "in
    love" both with each other and with such sentiments as "want
    to have sex with" and "want to be monogamous with" and "want
    to spend the rest of my life with."

    -- Linda

    
    re:.8
    re: already telling her
    if he's already told her and she has not responded, i should think
    the whole thing would be clear.
    
    re: love
    i fall in love all the time. what i do about it is another question.
    

  I hate it when I'm sick for a day and miss an intriguing base note! :-}

 re: love

 I think it is possible to be in love with more than one person at a time, at
least for some people. 

 I think that you shouldn't leave your spouse/lover only for another. If you
are going to make a life change, it ought to be because it is the right thing
to do for you, not that it would be more convenient for your relationship with
someone else. It seems that everytime I see someone leave their spouse/lover 
for another, the situation deteriorates, and the person who left ends up out
in the cold, wondering WHY s/he left in the first place.

 The Doctah

I din't read the base note (it's gone) but I wanted to respond to this:

(Rachael)
>    fills some need in her.  I mean if she was really his friend and she
>    wasn't attracted to him, then wouldn't she avoid him, for his benefit?

I have heard this notion over and over, and thoroughly disagree with it.
I have often been in a situation where someone had feelings for me that I
didn't share.  However, I valued their friendship and they valued mine,
and I didn't think it was my right or responsibility to make a decision
to break of that relationship "for his or her own good."

If I am honest and open about my feelings for the other person, and I want
to remain friends with them, it is up to *them* to decide is they want to
continue the friendship.  How can I suggest that I know better than them
whether my friendship is more important to them than my attraction, whether
the pain of being around me is greater or less than the pleasure of my
friendship, whether my presence is healthy or harmful?  If my friend decides
that if I can't love him/her, then s/he doesn't want me around, I will
understand and abide by those wishes.

I for one would be very upset if someone who claimed to be my friend started
avoiding me against my wishes "for my own good".  :-P  While the intentions
may be good, I think they are misplaced.  Let the friend decide what is
important and healthy for him or herself.

D!