Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    I think it is an unfair generalization to say that all women in
    business have better communication skills than all women who choose
    to stay home.  Also, where do women who work but are not "in business"
    such as waitresses, cafeteria workers, secretaries, salesclerks,
    and cleaning women, fit in?  It is probably true that women who
    are managers or instructors, for example, do have betters communication
    skills than most women in other areas of the workforce, otherwise
    they wouldn't be able to do their jobs.  However, I don't think
    that all engineers have great communication skills.  Some typing
    I've had to do for some of them would argue differently, as far
    as written communication skills anyway.
    
    Also, there are different types of communication skills - verbal
    in a small group or one-on-one, verbal speaking in front of a large
    group, and written.  Some people may be good at one but not another.
     I would agree that it takes good verbal communication skills to
    climb the ladder of success in business, but that doesn't mean that
    everyone who has chosen not to do this couldn't do it.
    
    One of my best friends used to be an instructor (and I don't think
    it would intimidate her to give a speech to a million people!),
    but at the present time she's chosen to be a housewife and mother.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Gee, I have always thought that most women have excellent communication
    skills, but that those women who are re-entering (or entering for
    the first time) the business world may need to learn the "language"
    of business.  Like how to turn nouns into verbs, e.g. impact,
    interface, to name a few ;-)  I think the presentation skills courses
    offered here at DEC help build self-confidence, and I think the
    communcations skills courses help us learn how to manage conflict
    and maybe even prevent conflict.  But these courses really teach
    techniques.  I think it's precisely because many women have such
    excellent communication skills that they are able to succeed in
    the male dominated worlds of business and high tech.
    
    Justine                                                            

    YEah....the women I taught school with had excellent communication
    skills (aspect of the job). However, teachers (especially female)
    are encouraged to believe that they can't do anything else. And
    the business community treats teachers that way, too. (If you work
    with kids, you've been in a cave for 10 years :-{ )
    
    You'd probably find that this group with excellent communication
    skills would still have a time adjusting to the business environment.
    
    BTW - I don't think engineers in general have such hot communication
    skills.
    
    Possibly interesting side-note - the "old boy network" exists in
    the public schools, as well as in business. The coaching/administration
    connection is especially strong.
    
    Dawn
    

    If you don't HAVE kids and are a buisiness woman, try this.  Borrow
    a couple of kids about the age of 4 to 7, go to the store for a
    couple of items, with the kids, that is.  Find the items, answer
    questions, pay for stuff, and, in the meantime, meet a friend you
    don't see too often while waiting in line. (please let me qualify
    this, this is a small crowded country store, not the organized grocery
    stores we are so familiar with).  I did this ONCE!
    
    Personally, I think most stay at home mothers MUST have great
    communication skills.  How do they do it?  8-0 
    
    			Kathy
    
    P.S.  I didn't do so good and the friend I met who was a mother
    couldn't help but have an amused look on her face.

    
    My seven year old is very helpful in the market. Far from
    being a problem, he carries groceries and reminds me of 
    items I may have forgotten(bubble gun, beef jerky, ice cream..)-;

    
    
    I personally fell that most adult males (over the age of about 15)
    have a definite lack in one-to-one communication skills.
    
    This is based on my three brothers, number of close male friends
    over the years, my son telling me he has problems, male co-workers
    (busdrivers to higher level managers at DEC to factory workers,
    the youth group I worked with at a community center (70 % were male)
    the young men I went to college with in the late 70's).
    
    Not all of them had serious problems but they all lacked major skills
    in one-to-one communications - how do I know - Most of them have
    asked me to help them get these skills.
    
    There is a skill that people are born with - the need to be social,
    but some people have it socialized out of them - via parents, schools,
    or whatever.  Women are usually encouraged to be social (listen
    to what the other person is saying, try not to pick arguements,
    and to be courteous) - some of this to their detriment
    
    Women who stay at home need different communication skills than
    people in business but then teachers need a different set as well
    as the "special" set that certain politicians use.
    
    
    
    _peggy
    		(-)
    		 |	Are we there yet?
    
    

    I agree with Justine -- and I think that most women tend to be
    socialized to engage in a different kind of communication than men do. 
    
    We definitely have to learn the language of business and technology,
    but I don't think that means adopting all of it unthinkingly.  We do
    have to understand it, and be able to use it appropriately. 
    
    During the 50's, if I understand it correctly, the business world was
    pretty unilaterally hard-edged.  By that I mean competitive,
    fast-moving, impersonal and agressive.  (My dad used to psych himself
    before going to work--he'd leave the house with a certain look on his
    face that always made me think of someone going hunting!) 
    
    There are certainly people and enivronments which haven't changed
    much from those days, but DEC has prided itself on having a very
    forward thinking environment.  I think women's style of communicating
    has slowly made inroads into the corporate culture.  I think that
    the culture we see today is a synthesis.  It's valued here to be
    able to say "I made a mistake", to be able to be compassionnate,
    to be a manager who develops his or her people rather than pressures
    them  solely for the sake of productivity.  I think that represents
    a change from 30 years ago.
    
    (I admit to generalizing somewhat--there are lots of exceptions,
    but I'm trying to discuss what I see as a trend.)
                                          
    It's not clear to me whether most women feel more drawn to the business
    world because the climate now is different, or whether the climate
    is different because of women's involvement.  I suspect some of
    each, but especially the latter.
    
    Holly 
    

    I have a friend who's a really good business person, but nobody
    pays her money for it.  She's always been active in pre-school and
    alternative schooling in Seattle, and she has developed expertise
    in a variety of areas such as fund-raising, organizing a large diverse
    project (a calendar, for example), hiring and firing teachers, and
    desktop publishing, not to mention all the sorts of things like
    communicating with kids and providing them with activities to stretch
    their skills.
    
    She beats us all at "Scruples" (the game) too.  Maybe this comes
    of majoring in philosophy and not a useless technical field?  :-)

re 441.0 by MARCIE::JLAMOTTE 
    
>    I have observed that those of us in business have different
>    personalities than those women who choose to stay home.  
>    I attribute this to communication skills.
    
One of Jack Kennedy's aides in the book 'A Thousand Days" said something 
like this:  "Those of us who went off to the war were jealous of those 
who stayed home.  We felt they were surpassing us in careers, in education, 
....  Years later I realized that those of us who survived the war had 
learned something priceless. We learned to build bridges from scrap wood, 
to make boots from anything, to stay warm at 20 below ... we found we were 
far more able than we had ever known.  We learned how to get things done."

I think working ... anywhere ... does the same thing. And also builds a
greater sense of confidence and autonomy.  By default, a new environment
makes you stretch, while people who stay home have to stretch themselves. 
Not always easy. 

>    ... maybe the first thing a woman should do is concentrate on 
>    communication skills maybe even before technical expertise.
    
Confidence is one of the ingredients of communication. (See note 304.*)
If technical expertise contributes to confidence, grab it. 

It's hard to predict what builds confidence. Here are five of my triumphs:
Make world class gravy, drive a car extremely well, very good editor, 
terrific listener when I concentrate, feel capable of tackling almost 
anything. Four of these skills evolved from working in the computer field.
                                            Meigs

    re .9
    This sounds like a testimonial for Outward Bound or one of those
    similar confidence-building courses.  The point of them is usually
    that most "ordinary" people are much more capable than they think;
    they just haven't been in a position to see how capable they are
    before, and so don't give themselves enough credit.

re: 441.0
>   In my case I did not have a college background and spent the 
>    first fifteen years at home doing fun things like raising
>    children, etc.  I took a few courses like Communicating Skills,
>    Presentation Skills and Face to Face and things started changing
>    at home and at work.  
    
If it's not too personal, how and why did things change?     Meigs

	I would not want to say my case was typical.  But I tended to
    	be defensive all the time.  I had a lot of difficulty around
    	managing relationships with people...getting things done. 
    
        In the area of communication skills I learned to listen to the
        other person and use the techniques suggested in the courses
        and I found I was able to get action on my requests or needs
        without any dissent.  For instance....traffic tickets...instead
        of being on the defensive and insisting on my innocence I took
        responsibility for my action and in two cases have received
        warnings instead of tickets.
    
        This is why I titled the note skills vs. personality.  It is
        a fine line....being defensive for example can be a personality
        trait...but good communication skills (which can be taught)
        can overcome the handicap.

> re 441.12   a fine line....being defensive for example can be a 
>        personality trait...but good communication skills (which can 
>        be taught) can overcome the handicap.

Yeah!  I smiled reading your note because I saw myself.  I've got a number 
of 'communication templates' stored in my head and often pipe my message 
through them:

Raw     ......\   Template   ......\   Actual
Impulse       /                    /   Communication

I like the 'templates' for a bunch of reasons, like these:
  o They help me express my thoughts in non-irritating ways.
  o They help me focus on just what I want to accomplish.
  o They also help me notice other communication patterns.  

Very small example:  I used to come home late at night, looking tired,
which upset my mom. Then I noticed if I walked in smiling, she smiled.
Zero upset.

That sounds almost silly, written out like that, but since my natural state 
is to be lost in my own head and dwell on my own reactions, these templates 
are extremely helpful ...

... the come home late template  : )
... the let's go out to dinner template
... the disagreement template (I like that! and could we also ....)
... the ABSOLUTELY NOT ---> I DON'T THINK SO

>        In the area of communication skills I learned to listen to the
>        other person and use the techniques suggested in the courses

Did you come across a term for 'the techniques'?  I'd like to browse around 
the library and see what other people have stored in their head.     Meigs