Conference turris::womannotes-v1

Will they do it with athletic supporters?  That would be a good trick
-- worthy of a dollar donation if you see it at Harvard Square.
(In case you have had a sheltered life, and encounter one at the
end if a lovely evening, athletic supporters do not have snaps.)

Not all commercials are demeaning to women.  One I saw a few weeks
ago on a Sunday morning showed a woman driving up to a gas station
in a business suit, pumping gas, checking the oil, paying and going
on with her business.  (The ad was a generic "gasahol is good for
America" public-affairs spot.)

Martin.

    the tv ad that really irks me is the nynex yellow pages ad, in which
    the family is sitting around asking "dad" questions (which he answers
    in a condesending manner) while "mom" is just sitting there looking
    like a dumb bunny.
    
    just my opinion...
    
    		--tracey

    re .3
    
    Well, the "dad" comes off looking like a twerp in that one as
    well ("The moon is made of molecules" indeed - so is cheese).
    
    I saw a truly aggravating commercial this weekend: couple having
    argument in new house (he wants to start family, she's just got
    where she wants in her career) - she takes a painkiller (Anacin
    or Bayer or something - really made an impression with me) because
    the argument gave her a headache. After the break to push the
    product, fade back to couple, she admitting "well, this room
    COULD make a good nursery". 

    I saw an article in the Worcester (Mass) Sunday Telegram about a
    woman that was opening a modeling agency in Washington DC.  Her
    models aren't the stereotypical cosmetically perfect men or women,
    but rather REAL people (professional types that don't have perfect
    noses or smiles) ;^)
    She seems to think her agency will be successful because intelligent
    professional people don't want to be swayed by a pretty face with
    not-much-for-brains.  She feels that her models will be in demand
    because they portray genuine people with intelligence.
    The investment in her agency has paid off.  Her models get paid
    top dollar for their work.
    
    
    
    nmw

    
    Re: .5  Super idea! I sure hope it catches on.
    
    The "ads" on the tube that burn me are the news teasers. 
    Things like "Stock market drops 50 points, will this cause another
    Depression? details later." or "OPEC raises price of oil, will
    gas lines return?" Someday I imagine I'll hear "Russia attacks America,
    news at eleven".
    

    re: .3
    
    
    NYNEX certainly does a poor job well with sexist and " tacky " ads.
    
    Note also the one in which the 'dad' is scanning the 'phone bill
    for long distance charges ...... focusing on the kids... finally
    being told of his calling ' your mother '...........
    
    .......
    
    
    For additional insight [?] into TV ads, see today's Wall Street
    Journal, Section 2 for an article on what is not to be done on
    TV adwise .....
    
    
    

re .4

	I agree. Various ads in which drugs are presented as they way to
cope with conflicted or hectic situations are giving a bad message. And
the person so often depicted in these ads is the overbusy career-wife-mother
trying to be all things to everyone.

    
    
    My favorite is Chronicle, on Ch 5 I believe.  The ad for this
    show states its slogan as "Stories of our times" or something
    to that effect.  But look at the ad itself.
    
    The camera zooms in on:
    
      1.  A woman pregnant
      2.  A man with a rifle
      3.  A woman praying in church
      4.  A MALE gymnist
      5.  A FEMALE ballet dancer
      6.  A woman holding a baby
          etc etc
    
    I think their caption should be:  "Stories of PAST times."
    
    I find the ad is out of tune with its slogan and obviously sexist.
    I've wanted to write them a letter and maybe I should find the time.
    I think I could identify with this ad if the camera shots actually
    reflected stories of our times. 
    
    The ad seems to be saying that women are still held to be in the
    traditional roles of the fifties and portrayed as gentle creatures,
    barefoot and pregnant, praying in church (how ladylike! another
    role that women are encouraged to play and men are not), holding
    their babies (as if they don't have jobs to go to or anyting ELSE
    to do).  A female gymnist!  Forget it.  This ad is assuring you
    that woman are still better suited to the role of ballet dancer,
    not gymnist.  Of course, the men are portrayed as very macho,
    with their guys, as gymnists, etc.
    
    Cute!  I think the ad is a big laugh.
    
    

    How about the new ad about lite beer. The "famous" swimsuit modle
    Macpherson (sp) walks around with a big smile and a very tight fitting
    swinsuit, all the guys there are deeply in love with her of course.
    She says" Haven't these men seen a women with a lite beer before?"
    
                          REK
    
    ANd women wonder where young kids get there ideas from???????

   
    
     One of my favorites - Cathy Rigby endorsing sanitary napkins (I
    forget the brand) - Another is the commercial for a similar product
    - all I remember is the slogan - "You gotta see it!"

    re .11  Yea, the girl goes, 'You haven't seen it - Ya gotta see
    it!"   and previously, "IT's got wings!"      sooo stupid.
    
    I hate all the ones with the lady endorsing cleaning or detergent
    type products!  When are they going to put up a house-husband telling
    us the joys of seeing our sister-in-law's baby crawl on their kitchen
    floor?
    
    McDonalds had a good one - with the elderly gentleman starting work
    there and coming home telling his wife, 'Don't see how they did
    without me!'
    
    And the California raisin adds are the best!!!
    
    Theresa.

    Those California raisin ads boosted sales something like 47% ! 
    How's that for effective advertising?  (I heard it through the
    grapevine... 8')   )
    
    I wonder how well (if at all) the other aforementioned ads worked?
    
    Lynne
                            

    My favorite's are the Domino Pizza "Avoid the Noid".
    It always bring's a smile when I see them.
    
    Debbi

    The NY Times Magazine had a couple of classics in the 9 Sep issue. One
    was a picture of a woman's lower body. Her skirt was raised so that all
    that was visible was her pantyhose, which was cut way up in the leg (to
    wear with bathing suits?). The caption was "Pantyhose for men." That
    wasn't even subtle.

    The other was an ad for a clothing store in NY City. There were 3 or 4
    pages in the ad, but the best was this: a woman in a running pose,
    dressed with an old-fashioned leather football or avaitor's helmet, a
    tight tutu, tight jeans and boots. Apparently they're selling this as
    an ensemble. Apparently they expect women to buy it. Apparently they
    exepct women to *wear* it.

    re: raisin ad
    
    I remember reading recently (in Yankee Magazine, I think) that the
    woman who posed for the raisin ad years and years ago got $50 (or
    some similar trivial amount).  I think when she got older the raisin
    company offered her a copy of the original oil portrait.
    
    She was fairly poor but her picture sold millions of raisins...sigh.
    
    Holly 

Well, my favorite commercial is the Steak-umms one with the little boy
and very big dawg. I love it at the end when the boy beeps the dawg on
the nose and they go trotting off together.

Jenna

    My most favorite recent ad is the wine cooler ad, where (I've
    forgotten) their names ("This is my brother, Ed) - are standing
    on the corner of Hollywood and Vine waiting for an "average person"
    to go by so they can ask an opinion. I laugh out loud every time.
    
    "Thank you fer yer support"
    
    One I liked was on a while ago. Shots of a white limo cruising down
    back roads, elegantly. Cut to shots of a black motorcycle, rider
    all in blak with one of those nifty black helmets - vroom. Cut to
    limo. Cut to bike. Limo arrives on a verdant hillside. Man in tux
    begins setting out tablecloth and picnic basket (must be the butler).
    Motorcycle comes over the hill and comes to a stop. Off comes the
    helmet.  Rider is female - joins the guy in the tux for the picnic.
    
    --DE
    

    RE .19  Was the add for motorcyles?
    
    I think the ending could have been "could you pass the Grey Poupon?"
    

	In crossreference to Note 448 on Rings - ever notice how
in many ads both TV and printed, they are always careful to show the
wedding ring on the woman's hand if she's doing/advertising certain
things - for example, if she's shown with children, or in an obvious
co-habitation scene, or advertising birth control products...of course
single women don't do/need any of these things...

    RE: .22
    
    Actually, some of the more "modern day" ads, are now willing to
    show that couples who are cohabitating, are not married, as 
    evidenced by the lack of a wedding band on the woman's finger.
    Two commercials that come to mind are the "Grape Nuts" cereal ad,
    on a national level, and many of the Jordan Marsh commercials,
    on a regional level.
    
    RE: 19, 20, 21
    
    I remember that ad also. When I first saw the replies, my first
    thought was that it *was* a motorcycle commercial. After thinking
    about it some more, I think it was a beer commercial - the "guys"
    trusted her enough to make the "beer run" for them.
    
    RE: Commercials for "Women's Products"
    
    I have often thought to myself, what would Ad Agencies do if there
    were not women's products to pitch to the female viewing public?
    
    There are ads for: Tampons & sanitary napkins; douches; vaginal
    deodorant sprays; depilatories for hair in the "bikini areas";
    brassieres; "female" laxatives; home test kits to enable a woman
    to know if she is (or is not) pregnant or when she is ovulating;
    products for "bladder control" problems; underarm products for
    a "woman's special needs".
    
    All these (and more), in addition to the zillions of commercials
    for hair shampoos, hair coloring products, hair sprays, styling
    gels, jeans to "fit a woman's body" since she is not "built like
    a man" (I wonder how many years it took researchers to figure
    that fact out), special vitamins to add extra iron to a woman's
    body, iron that is lost during "those days" (and so on and so
    on....).
    
    Speaking of TV ads dealing with "those days" in a woman's life, one
    of the ones that amused me (actually, "amused" is not the word I want)
    because it sounded so banal, was the commercial for either Midol
    or Pamprin or some other similar product. The gist of the ad was
    that that the product was needed "before, during, and after THOSE
    DAYS". I used to always think that a woman, watching that ad, would
    say to herself "Oh great, I can live without Midol (or whatever)
    at least one week a month".
    
      Alan
    
                                                     

    
    Re .18
    
       Speaking of cute little kids, remember the one where this young
    gentleman is sitting on a porch and he starts to sing:
    
          "My bologna has a first name, it's O-S-C-A-R
           My bologna has a second name, it's M-A-Y-E-R
           Oh, I love to eat it every day
           And if you ask me why I'll sayyyy...
    
           'Cause Oscar Mayer has a way with B-O-L-O-G-N-A"
    
       And then to end it all off he asks
    
    
           "How's that?"
    
    
    Frank
    

    One of my all-time unfavoritest (?) ads was one where a man and
    a woman are sitting at a kitchen table.  A second woman, standing,
    is offering a second cup of coffee to the man who accepts.  The
    first woman--obviously his wife--whines, "He NEVER has a second cup of
    MY coffee!"
    
    And as if that's not bad enough...There was a copycat ad with a
    boy and a girl sitting at a child-size table and a second girl offering
    a second cup of hot chocolate to the boy who accepts.  The first
    girl whines, "He NEVER has a second cup of MY cocoa!"
    
    I can't stand it!!
    
    Tracy
     

    
    Here's one I saw last week, It's Great!!!
    
    I'll set the scene:
    
    	There's these two street people, each holding a brown paper
    bag. One guy is in his sixties, the other is around thirty-five.
    
    Older man: "You haven't been on the streets too long, have you?"
    
    Younger man: "No, it's been a couple of months."
    
    Older man: "What did you do before?"
    
    Younger man: "I used to have a job that paid $65,000 a year. Had
         my own office with my own secretary and a Cadillac for a company
         car. I had my own expense account, even wore designer underwear."
    
    Older man: "What ever happened?"
    
    Younger man: "They wanted me to work on Thursday nights! I couldn't
         miss L.A. LAW!"
    
    Older man: "Well, ya coulda taped it..."
    
    
    
    Anyone else see this?
    
    Dan
    

    
    How about the one I saw last night:
    
    A man and boy come into a house from doing something male and dirty.  
    They are talking about how dirty they are and how much fun it was
    or something.
    
    As they come in, they are greeted by a woman and a girl.
    
    The woman says: "you go hit the showers", looks at girl, "we'll
    take care of those shirts."

    I didn't know they made commercials like that any more (except for
    ring around the collar).
    
    

    ....on my all-time "Grrrrrrr" list.
    
    Dawn
    

    Re: 27 
    	I always hated the ring_around_the_collar commercial. Saw a cartoon
    about that once. The husband comes up to the wife with a shirt in
    his hands. The wife looks up and says "Wash our neck."
    
    Maybe I should put this one in misconceptions, I've always wondered
    if woman really stand around discussing which female product was better. 
    
    Then theres the deodorant thats strong enough for a man but made
    for a woman.                                                         
    
    
dave
    

    BAD:
    
    Why, oh WHY do we have to have such an avalanche of tampon and sanitary
    pad commercials???  Isn't it bad enough that we (women) have to
    rely on the stupid things every month?  Instead of beating us senseless
    via television (and radio--in case you're blind) with those DUMB
    ads, how about just making the products cheaper to buy???  Sheesh..
    
    GOOD:
    
    Anyone remember the M&M commercial that comes around every Easter
    with all the little kids with their Easter baskets and M&M's saying,
    "Thanks, Easter Bunny!"  My all-time favorite is that little boy
    at the end, dressed up in a chicken suit, who flaps his wings and
    goes, "BUK-BUK!"  Cracks me up every time..
                                                                     
    More bad than good, unfortunately..
    
    Jane

    Marc Price had a comment about the coffee commercials I thought
    you'd get a kick out of.....
     
    Have you seen the one where Justine Bateman explains how she likes
    to relax with a cup of coffee? Marc notes that having a cup of
    coffee to relax is like drinking alcohol to improve your motor skills.

    The most annoying commercial I have ever seen is Fruit Fresh.
    
    Mother: (looking at daughters peaches) "YUK!, I told you to use
    fruit fresh.  Yours are brown and yucky and mine are fresh and yummy!"
    
    If I had a mother like this I think I would probably serve her my
    brown and yucky peaches on the top of her head!
    
    My favorite commercials are Joe Piscopo's beer commercials...absolutely
    absurd...
    
                            - Sue

      I saw one in Florida that really bugs me.
    
    A women is talking about how her "Maidenform" bra really fits nice.
    THen she states the sales pitch. Buy 2 bras and get the third one
    free.
    
    Now some of you may think this is all right but the picture is a
    different story. She shows the two bras that she bought and unnder
    a sweater she takes of the "free" bra. My wife's son asked
    if mommy could take a bra off like that......
    
                    REK

    I don't like that ad either...actually, it's sort of surprising
    either of us has ever even seen it, since we don't watch much TV,
    but that one sticks in my mind because it is particularly silly.
    The bra she takes off is a filmy, sex-object sort of one, unlike
    the practical-looking ones she says she bought.  Oh, well, anything
    to sell merchandise, I guess.
    
    Yeah, I imagine you could contort yourself to remove a bra that
    way, although I don't think the woman in the ad is really doing
    so.  I've taken off a swimsuit out from under a T-shirt that way.

    my wife takes her bra off that way often.
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

    FYI - I saw an interview with the actress, and she said that although
    it was possible to do the contortionist routine, they opted for
    a "rigged demo" for the commercial itself; she writhed around a
    while and then produced a bra that had been tucked inside her sweater.
    The explanation for this was that the "real" method looked too awkward
    for the impression they were trying to convey...
    
    -b

    Um, I haven't seen the commercial, but I I've done the maneuver
    lots of times in the DEC parking lot when I couldn't stand wearing
    it one minute longer but still had a 45 minute drive home.
    
    I don't think anyone was watching, though.

    RE. 34 That's what started this note in the first place.
    
    RE. 37 That explains it.
    
    Another commercial that bugs me is the new Mennen Speed (Dry) for
    women.  It is a roll-on anti-perspirant with the WIDE ball.  Who
    needs it?  It's just another gimmick to get you to buy.  
    
    Another one (and more and more) is the New England telephone commerical
    where the father is reading off the bill to his family asking,
    "now who knows someone in Worcester?, and love is blooming in Beverly
    and then he says, "now who lives in Duxbury?" and the wife says,
    "your Mother" and the guy says, "oh".  What does that say about
    this man?  (not what I feel but what the commercial is implying).
    
    Good ones: Diet Coke (Manhattan Transfer), Coca Cola (sung "When
    Coca Cola's a part of your life,  can't beat the feeling)....
    
    Cathy (who will be watching "The Thorn Birds" and catching every
    sick commercial that comes my way)

    Last Xmas season, a shirt company had an ad that I really hate.
    It showed a woman wearing a guy's shirt - floppy, long, sleeves
    rolled up several times, etc. - and (insinuated) nothing else. She
    ranted on about how she was wearing (I'll call him) Harry's shirt
    and he'd have a hard time getting it back.
    
    Next scene. Little girl, same deal. Wearing Daddy's shirt - floppy,
    dragging on the floor, etc.. Coming out of...daddy's bedroom. 
    
    Preceeding this scene with the sexy "Harry's shirt" scene was most
    suggestive of incest, and I believe, was created to play on those
    fantasies. The ad certainly was not aimed at women.
    
    Dawn
    

        I'll have to admit that though I've seen the "Harry's shirt" /
        "Daddy's shirt" add a number of times it never occurred to me
        that there was any suggestion at all of incest. I figured it for
        (and in fact still suspect that it was intended as) the very
        standard habbit our children have of wearing and oft times
        appropriatinbg our clothes. Many a man has lost a favorite old
        shirt to a child or to a wife or lover and this experience of
        having our things appropriated is what I saw the add refering
        to.
        
        It is, I suppose, quite possible that the success or lack
        thereof of the add could be based on men or women seeing the
        implication in it that you have. It certainly is a lesson in
        taking care as to the conotations of what one says or does.
        
        JimB. 

    re .40:
    
    seems to me "daddy's bedroom" would be the natural place to find
    daddy's shirts.
    
    But that reminded me of the current commercial for Brut (I believe)
    that shows a woman at home alone dressing up in her husband's clothes
    while the narrator talks about how much she loves the smell of "a
    man". At the end, he calls, and she blushes, and says "I was just
    thinking of you".
    
    Think of the commercial as if the wife were away instead...
    
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

    I actually got an ad in the mail that I *like*.
    
    It was for an investment oriented newsletter, that comes with a
    hotline service.  In the place that they are talking about all the
    wonderful things the hotline service does for you, they show a woman,
    nicely but distinctly femininely dressed (not a power suit), with
    a lot of papers and books in front of her, on the phone, presumably
    using the hotline to help her plan her investments.  Certainly a
    welcome change from the usual.
    
    Elizabeth

re: .40 (I think).

Excuse me, but I find it extremely offensive in that you STRONGLY imply that
men have incest fantasies (eg, it hinted at incest, was building on fantasy,
and certainly was not directed towards women).  Perhaps you could phrase it in
a non derogatory way.

-Joe

    re .44:
    
    It has been stated by some well respected psychologists (including
    Freud and those who have followed him in some respects) that all PEOPLE
    have sexual fantasies involving their parents and children.  Most
    of them remain at a subconscious level, and are certainly not acted
    out.  But, they are still there, exploitable by Madison Avenue.
    
    Elizabeth

>    Freud and those who have followed him in some respects) that all PEOPLE

1) the note in question specifically said this was related/directed to MEN
   with the implicit assumption that they are the ones having these 'fantasies'.
   
2) Not everyone in the world subscribes to the theories of Freud.  As such,
   this is NOT a valid reason for saying what was said.

3) Untilevery person on earth is examined by the 'respected' people, I do
   NOT accept the premise that evryone has such fantasies.  I know of one
   person that does not.

I would like to see the note in question either reworded (my real preference)
or deleted (as objectionable and derogatory of men as a class).

-Joe

    
    In response to 446.46 (Alien::Melvin)
    
    
    From 446.40 (Vino::Evans)
    
    >   Preceeding this scene with the sexy "Harry's shirt" scene was most
    >   suggestive of incest, and I believe, was created to play on those
    >   fantasies. The ad certainly was not aimed at women.
    
 
I don't think that this is really derogatory toward men as a class.  (It 
certainly could have been worse.)  Lots of people don't believe in the
sexuality theories proposed by Freud, and if you don't, I suspect you will
ignore those kinds of statements.  But why ask Dawn to rephrase her 
interpretation of the commercial?   The only part of Dawn's analysis that I 
take issue with is that the ad was not aimed at women because sadly, I think 
it was.  Women are the ones most likely to buy clothes for both men and
women.  I think the commercial was aimed not only at men (and their 
fantasies) but also at women.. many of whom have been sexually victimized
by their fathers.  But remember: that kind of victimization often involves
seduction rather than physical force, and for many women the 
relationship they had with Daddy remains ambiguous because they may never 
have come to acknowledge that what they experienced was abuse.  It sounds
like that commercial exploits all of those ambiguities pretty well.

I really don't think it's appropriate for men to ask the women in this file 
to rephrase something that seems offensive to men.  If you ask us to 
monitor (and modify per your specifications) our responses to the world 
around us, you won't learn what women think; you'll only learn what they 
say when you're in the room.  As much as I had hoped that men would not 
participate in this file, I think it's even more important that we women 
learn to create a "safe space" for ourselves especially when we find 
that we don't have much room in which to do it.

Justine     

> I don't think that this is really derogatory toward men as a class. 

The point is, I do.  Whether you do or not is a side issue.

> (It certainly could have been worse.)  

That is no justification for it.  It could have been better also.  It is still
offensive and derogatory.

> But why ask Dawn to rephrase her interpretation of the commercial?   

I am not asking her to rephrase her interpretation, I am asking that the
derogatory statement be removed.  

>I really don't think it's appropriate for men to ask the women in this file 
>to rephrase something that seems offensive to men.  

Seems is not the word.  It  IS offensive and as such I consider it to fall
under the harrassment policies.  It can be rephrased or deleted.  I will be
directing this issue to the moderator.

>If you ask us to monitor (and modify per your specifications) our responses
> to the world around us, you won't learn what women think; you'll only learn 
> what they say when you're in the room.  

Wrong.  I have been reading this conference for quite a long time and I have
just run into something I find offensive.  I have every right to complain about
it.  As far as self monitoring, that has been necessary for everyone in EVERY
conference since the days of SEXCETERA.  As I recall, it was a woman that 
complained about something in there and got the ENTIRE FILE deleted, not just 
one note rephrased.

>As much as I had hoped that men would not participate in this file, I think 
>it's even more important that we women learn to create a "safe space" for 
>ourselves especially when we find that we don't have much room in which to 
>do it.

A safe place does not mean a place where derogatory remarks can be made freely.
And if you do lock yourself off, then the same will occur to you as you typed
above: "you won't learn what xxxx think; you'll only learn what they say when
        you're in the room" (this is not a direct quote; substitute men/women
        for the xxxx; both are equally applicable).


-Joe

    re 446.48
    
    Joe,
    
    I think your reaction is somewhat excessive, given the stimulus.
    
    Whether or not you buy the Freudian interpretation of our psyche,
    it seems to me that men and women are probably equally prone to
    incest fantasies.  Thus, if the implacation that the commercial
    works by aiming at incestuous fantasies is insulting and derogatory,
    it is to _all_ of us.
    
    Lee

    Ref 446.48
    Monsieur Joe Melvin
    @Alien
    
    I am flabbergasted at your use of terms like "harassment" and "deroga-
    tory" in this context. You cannot really believe that you (you, person-
    nally or you, as a man) are being harassed because YOU disagree
    with some of the statements of modern psychology ???
                                                                   
    Everybody is allowed to disagree with everybody else, but going
    as far as asking for re-phrasings, deletions, apologies,
    re-statements... It sounds awfully medieval: "Sir, you will apologize
    immediately or I will send you my witnesses and we shall meet at
    6 a.m. behind the little chapel. The choice of arms is yours."
    
    Your technique here really borders ... this harassment you are complai-
    ning about!
    
    With a bow and a flourish, I remain, yours etc.
    
    Joana
         

>    I think your reaction is somewhat excessive, given the stimulus.

My reactions are just that, my reactions.
    
>    incest fantasies.  Thus, if the implacation that the commercial
>    works by aiming at incestuous fantasies is insulting and derogatory,
>    it is to _all_ of us.

My entire complaint with the initial note was the fact that this was limited
to MEN ONLY.  If the note is rephrased to say ALL MEN AND ALL WOMEN, then fine.
Until then, it is an issue.

-Joe

    
    As far as I'm concerned, if we let men monitor and edit what is
    said in Womannotes {does anyone else find the very notion absolutely
    incredible???) when it does not involve a direct, personal attack,
    we may as let the file go away.
                                   
    Perhaps this is the kind of dilemma faced by members of the press
    in totalitarian states.  Do you let the state intervene and approve
    every word, or do you take a stand and take your chances?  
    
    Justine

>    Monsieur Joe Melvin

Insults, now :-)

    
>    I am flabbergasted at your use of terms like "harassment" and "deroga-
>    tory" in this context. 

Harrassement may be a bit far off from what I mean.  However derogatory is not.
It is not a question of modern psychology, since I sincerely doubt the author
at the time had psychology in mind.  But this is only second guessing the 
author.

>    Everybody is allowed to disagree with everybody else, but going
>    as far as asking for re-phrasings, deletions, apologies,
>    re-statements... It sounds awfully medieval: "Sir, you will apologize
>    immediately or I will send you my witnesses and we shall meet at
>    6 a.m. behind the little chapel. The choice of arms is yours."

Kindly go back and look at the track record of hidden notes in this file as
well as others.  While my intent is NOT medieval in nature, it is in the
nature of company policy.
    
>    Your technique here really borders ... this harassment you are complai-
>    ning about!

Fine.  We will meet on the field of battle.  :-)  As to choice of arms, I
choose the right one. :-)

By the way, I would sincerely like to see you explain how this is harrassment 
on MY part.  I have asked something be rephrased because the intent conveyed
may not be the intent of the author.  

-Joe

    	RE:  .48 (I think)
    
    	SEXETERA was not deleted just because "some woman" complained
    	about its contents.
    
    	"Some woman" complained about the fact that a VERY EXPLICIT
    	SEXUALLY DESCRIPTIVE NOTE was extracted from Sexetera and was
    	put on her desk.  She complained about the note, and DEC
    	"decked" the whole conference when they saw what it said.
    
    	That is a BIG distinction from someone just "complaining"
    	about a conference.
    
    	And yes, the person who put the extract on her desk was a man.
    
    							Suzanne...

    	<---- .54
    
    	Make that "she complained about the extract on her desk" not
    	the note's existence in the conference.
    
    

>    As far as I'm concerned, if we let men monitor and edit what is
>    said in Womannotes {does anyone else find the very notion absolutely
>    incredible???) when it does not involve a direct, personal attack,
>    we may as let the file go away.

Fine.  So if a someone came into this conference and said something like
"All women are <derogatory remark> in their base nature", you would let that
stand?  No, nor should you.  So why is it any different than when a
man makes a similar complaint?  Isn't that a double standard being
applied?  

>    Perhaps this is the kind of dilemma faced by members of the press
>    in totalitarian states.  Do you let the state intervene and approve
>    every word, or do you take a stand and take your chances?  

Excuse me, but I have been reading this conference for a very long time and
the minute I object to something and ask it be rephrased to show the author's
real intent, it becomes censorship, state intervention.  Isn't that a bit
extreme, even for this conference?  There were many other notes in this
conference that have been hidden etc.  Did you complain about those? Not
that I rcall seeing.  Strange, isn't it?  And by the way, the press is not
able to print ANYTHING they want.  They can print it but they are accountable
for it (namely, they can be sued for defamation of character for example).

[I will be deleting this entry from my notebook, so do not expect any further
 responses from me on the subject.  I have overwritten replies as it is :-).
 I came to learn, and that I did...  I will be dropping the issue as well
 with the moderators (as soon as I can contact them).  You want an all woman
 notesfile? Fine.  Have at it.]

-Joe

    May we please bring this note back to the topic of commercial ads?
    Bonnie J

One of the most interesting features of notesfiles in general, and
WOMANNOTES in particular, is the extend of miscommunication.  Anyone
who has been to one of the get-togethers should be able to tell you
of some person who is a horrible ogre in the notesfile, but a perfectly
polite reasonable person face-to-face.

As I understand the Dec Policy and Procedures, if anyone feels that
an action (or notes submission) constitutes harrassment, it *must*
be treated as such until further investigation.  While they might
not agree with the complaint, I think the moderators are remiss
in not hiding the offending note and working out an acceptable
comprimise off-line.

If it's a minor irritant, perhaps we can all treat it as such.

Martin.

    My goodness! The things that happen when I don't check in for a
    while!
    
    OK - here's the deal. My view of the commercial was that, *AS AN
    AD FOR MEN's SHIRTS* it played on the incest fantasies of men. (Hence
    my statement that the ad wasn't meant for women - it was for *MEN'S*
    shirts. Justine, however, made an excellent point in that regard)
    
    The statement in question was only to note that *THIS PARTICULAR*
    ad was aimed at men, and therefore at male fantasy.
    
    Do women have incest fantasies? I presume so. Have I seen any ads
    which play on those fantasies? No. They would offend me as well,
    mostly because I dislike the idea of manipulation by Madison Ave.
    
    Joe, if you are still among us: I had no intention of, nor do I
    think that my statements did, insult or degrade men. I merely said
    that this particular ad played on male incest fantasies, and from
    that point of view, the ad was tacky, in my opinion. I personally
    also find it a lot *MORE* than just "tacky", but that's probably
    not a general reaction.
    
    I'll re-word the note (if I can find out how) , but I still don't
    think it was insulting...
    
    Dawn
    

    With Martin's permission I have unhidden his note, as I think it
    was relevant to the discussion.
    
    Just for the record, :-), this moderator at first hoped that
    the particpants in the discussion would work out the problems
    with out needing a moderator's intervention and I have unfortunately
    :-) :-) been rather busy working and was not keeping up with
    this discussion. 
    
    and I have just now contacted members of the discussion by mail.
    
    Remember people, :-) we moderators can't be on this conference
    every minute of the working day. :-)
    
    thankyou
    
    Bonnie J
    moderator

    having just read Martin's reply I'll say:
    
    I'll *DELETE* the ($@*%&#@* thing. I really don't have that much
    invested in it, adn am frankly surprised that it caused as much
    comment as it did.
    
    This tempest would probably not have outgrown the confines of the
    teapot had I replied sooner, but I simply have not check into Notes
    at all in the last several days.
    
    If an apology is needed here, I APOLOGIZE.
    If not, ignore the preceding sentence.
    
    Dawn
    

    To all of you wonderful concerned charming people out there....
    
    thank you for your patience and concern and willingness to try
    be sure that the right thing gets done.
    
    Now can we *please* :-) get back to the base note topic?
    
    thank you again
    
    Bonnie J
    moderator
    

    Back on track. Since my penny seemed to have de-reailed this train,
    I'll try to puch it back on the rails. *OOF*!
    
    How about the Red Sox ad? Gorgeous young woman at the beach, needs
    help applying suntan oil. *MANY* young men, EAGERLY rush over, applying
    oil, admiring the woman. She basks in the admiration. (Airsick bag
    needed at this point)
    
    A couple of feet away sits, "typical nerdy woman" - wing-shaped
    eyeglasses, hair in curlers, frumpy bathing suit, the whole deal.
    She, however, has a TV set. Turns it on. *IT'S RED SOX BASEBALL*!!!!
    
    Instantly, all the guys, leave "cutie" in a rush, and gather around
    "nerdy" to watch the game. Self-satisfied expression on "nerdy";
    daggers from "cutie".
    
    BLEECCH! Thank you, Red Sox ad agency for making EVERYBODY look
    like an idiot...
    
    Dawn
    

    Would the people who wish to continue the discussion started by
    note 446.40 please take it to the new note I have started at
    479.
    
    Thankyou
    Bonnie J
    moderator

        It probably isn't overly wise to ask questions like this in a
        note that has been full of flames recently (especially when they
        were over a completely innocent note like Dawn Evean's inference
        that there was an incest theme to the "Harry's shirt" add),
        but... 
        
        I'm not quite sure I understand why an airsick bag is needed in
        th Red Sox/Sun Tan Oil commercial. Perhaps I'm just a little
        dense or too much of an MCP to see it.
        
        Although one might readily question the need to use nubile women
        to sell baseball or to perpetuate the unflattering pictures of
        "nerds", be they male or female, I don't see what is so terrible
        about the scene as described. 
        
        It would seem that a very large fraction of the populace,
        especially the young and unattached populace would enjoy the
        oppurtunity to engage in somewhat sensual physical contact with
        an attractive member of the sex of their preference, and that a
        similarly large fraction of the populace would enjoy it being
        made clear that they are sexually attractive to a large fraction
        of the sex of their prefernce. 
        
        Thus "Gorgeous young person at the beach needs help applying
        suntan oil. Many young people with whom there is a mutal sexual
        attraction EAGERLY rush over, applying oil, admiring the person,
        who basks in the admiration", doesn't seem in and of itself to
        induce nausea. Making the young person, and the extremely vast
        majority of young people used to pitch all sorts of non-sexual
        products a woman, seems to indicate something is out of whack,
        but it would seem to me that it would inspire something more
        akin to anger or indignation than revultion.
        
        This isn't meant to be a flame, but rather a request for
        further explanation.
        
        JimB.

    Well, *my* impression of the ad was that the men were portrayed
    as mindless idiots, slathering at the mouth to put oil on the gorgeous
    female, whom presumably, they had never met.
    
    The woman was portrayed as a "I'm just *so* gorgeous. Men can't
    resist me. Come to me, boys, and do my bidding." type.
    
    Not one word of conversation takes place.
    
    My objection is that these are not portrayed as people, communicating
    with each other, but as stereotypes, being perpetuated.
    
    Does that help explain *my* perception?
    
    Dawn
    

    I think the commercial also semi-insults all involved by saying
    something like:
    
    "gorgeous women must bask in attention from any and all men in the area"
    "men are helpless and can't (nor should they want to) resist an
      invitation to touch a gorgeous woman's body"
    "ugly women are undesirable unless they have a device which can
      endow them with desirable properties"
    
    I assume none of these people have said a word - and when it comes
    right down to it, I may look at the outside of someone, but what
    really would attract/repel me is what's inside...
    
    -Jody
    
    p.s.  the above is said casually.  The airsick bag, as far as I could
    tell, was for the person observing the commercial, and the assumptions
    and stereotypes it puts across.
     
    

    re: .67
    
    EXACTLY, PRECISELY - You said it all.
    
    Dawn
    

	A longtime favorite ad series is the rather strange, animated Levis
	ads.  I also admired whoever at Levis had the nerve to ok them!  
	These are the ones that usually end with the "announcer" being drawn
	off-screen by some strange means (swinging across and crashing, being
	"sucked" into the "e" in Levis, which pops shut afterwards....)

	Unfortunately, Levis don't fit me well, so my admiration hasn't
	translated in purchasing the product.  :-)

		Helen

    Another of the "Perpetuating Stereotypes" adds that I hate was for
    some credit card or travel package of some kind. (sorry, I did
    not take notes the last time I saw the add)
    
    It shows several concatenated scenes in which a woman is accepting
    several expensive drinks and other such thinks from a waiter who is
    unseen.  The waiter keeps bringing things to the woman who is
    lounging by the sea side saying something like "Your drink, Madam"
    to which she replies "Ooh". The point is being made that she is highly
    deserving of all this wonderful treatment. 
    
    I the last seen the waiter brings something else:
    
    "The bill, Madam"
    
    Does she take it and say thank you? No. Does she hand him a credit
    card with her name on it?  No.  Does she write a check? No. Does
    she even look at the bill? NO.
    
    She merely gestures toward a man on a jet ski off shore and says
    "Give that to my husband."
    
    The implication being that it is her right to showered with all
    of these valuable things as long as it is her husband that pays
    for them.  He can be out having fun too as long as he still pays.
    
    It also implies that the only thing the man is good for is the paying
    part.  It does not show him taking part in all of the other joys
    brought by the waiter.

    Heaven forbid if she had to pay part of the expense herself or even
    worse pay for her husband as well as herself.  She seems to be slightly
    put off by the fact that the waiter would even think of troubling
    her with the messy business of paying.
    
    Gag. Quick, who has got that airline sickness bag.
    
    					MJC

    re .70
    
    > Gag. Quick, who has got that airline sickness bag.
    
    Have them bring two, eh?  We can vomit in tandem :)
    
    Lee

    re: .70/.71
    
    Make it three - group barf, ho! 
    
    S.
    

    re: .70, .71, ,72
    
    So in Arlo Guthrie's eyes, we have a movement!

    re: .70, .71, .72, .73
    
    Pass the bag, this one has my vote!
    

    I saw one a couple of nights ago for American Airlines:
    
    A male reporter is complimenting a female colleague on "scooping"
    him on a story.  She thanks him.  Then he says that he was going
    to have a problem covering the next story - turns out he has been
    bumped off his flight.  She says that *she'll* have no problem
    covering the story - her ticket is with American and that he
    can "read all about it" in her column in the morning.
    
    Fade to voice "When you're someone special, people know it".
    
    I find such ads a great litmus test for testing my own levels
    of prejudice.  The way the test works is this:  I ask myself 
    what my first reaction to the ad was (in this case, I thought
    it was a neat pro-women piece).  Then I ask myself what I'd
    think if all the characters had been the same sex.  If, as
    it did for me in this case, the ad now seems "neutral" I know
    that I'm reading in meaning that isn't necessarily there.
    
    My only defense is that I'm quite sure that the ad agency 
    intended the viewer, especially the women, to put the "pro-
    women" interpretation on the ad.  No doubt that, with her
    new promo and all, Suzanne (or her mgr.) is rushing out to
    buy tix for Hawaii. . .  :-D
    

    
    Now, one hardly looks on a pizza delivery outfit as a great force
    of social change, but...
    
    There was an ad I saw on the tube for Donmino's Pizza.  It was pretty
    typical in theme -- call them up and get your pizza, but this time
    the pizza was delivered to what looked like a mother and son.  No
    father evident.
    
    Now, of course, one could place any kind of interpretation on that
    one likes, but I had never seen this sort of ad feature what looked
    like a successful single parent before.
    
    DFW

    Ad campaign designers spend a fortune researching subliminal images.

    Unfortunately for the sexually neutral image of this ad, my persecption
    is flavored by the following.
    
    Regardless of how succesful this woman is, or any other woman, a large
    majority of business tickets are not bought by the traveller but by
    a secretary, or a "travel consultant" or whatever.
    
    And it is also true that a large proportion of secretaries and travel
    consultants etc happen to be women (question: if you travel on business
    who buys your ticket? and how many male secretaries do you know in DEC?)
    
    So ads like this, though superficially aimed at the business traveller
    are actually aimed more at the ticket buyers. Promoting a pro-female
    bias is not aimed at showing succesful women in middle or upper management,
    it is aimed at making secretaries feel comfortable ordering tickets
    from American Airlines.
    
    Ads that promote frequent flier programs are different...

    /. Ian .\

>    majority of business tickets are not bought by the traveller but by
<    a secretary, or a "travel consultant" or whatever.
    
Which reminds me of an old 'ad' grump of mine.  The office mail is full of 
freebee mags for the 'professionals' such as lab techs, doctors, 
programmers, marketing peeps, video stores, etc. Why don't the secretaries 
of the world get a freebee secretary mag, like the others where the 
magazine cost is carried by ads, which explains the freebee status.  

Now that's low status ... they don't even want to sell to us.

Yo pubs and secretaries, there is an opportunity here.  Is it time to begin 
printing DEC SEC?

>    Whats a 'marketing peep' ?

peep, for people.  I like it.  It sounds friendly, silly, and it's brief
                   and I make many typos trying to commit a 'people'.

    .79 is correct for those of us who work in GIA.  I would add to
    it that many of us who travel a lot have specific airlines we will
    not use and have made this known to Am Ex (they have assumed
    responsibilty for our corp. travel program in GIA).  Unfortunatley
    there is little consensus or which airlines to avoid.  I will not
    travel United or Continental unless the second choice is VERY
    inconvenient.  The people I deal with through Am Ex are a mixture
    of women and men, though more of the former (never see them - they
    are voices on a telephone).
    
    Douglas

    Right, Bob!
    
    G
    
    P.S.  Now don't get me started on our corporate travel agency, American
    Express --  ARRGGGHHH!

    United Airlines has a new ad campaign on the tube, touting the fact
    that it is the airline of choice for business travelers.  While
    Gershwin plays in the background, various "businessy" scenes are
    shown, and upon closer inspection, all but two people in the ads
    are white males.  One woman is a flight attendant (serving a male), and
    the other is a black woman running down a flight of stairs (not
    sure of the business connection here), but she is carrying a brief
    case, so close enough, eh?  I wouldn't take exception but before
    I even see a woman in a business context, I have to see groups of
    men clinching deals, attending meetings, riding horses together
    (good old boy imagery).  Has anyone else noticed this ad?
    
    There is a second ad that is set in the plane and cuts from passenger
    to passengers and gives a glimpse of their thoughts... again, all
    white males, one black female (the same woman as the other ad..).
    
    Is it me??
    
    Paula
    
    
    

    Another favorite - the ads showing a man scratching a lottery ticket
    and reacting with no emotion - just saying a few words - I won!
    as though he was incapable of anything else.  This ad also is heard
    on the radio - along with another ad for a different product - Root
    Beer!  I think it is supposed to poke fun a New Englanders, especially
    those from Maine, but these ads merely strike me as indicating that
    these people are rather stupid!

    I nominate for the crude and tasteless ad of the yaer ...
    
    Today's Wall street Journal .... P. 13 .....  Very Bad .....
    
    The journal should be taken to task for putting it in !!
    
    
    Anyone draft a letter of protest ... I'll sign
    
    
                              Mike
    

RE: .86 could you describe the ad?  I'm too busy right now to go find
	a WSJ. 

	Thanks, ...Karen

    Full page ....  
    
     Picture of three women with short skirted dresses .. walking away
    from the camera....  angle is such ... looking up  ...
    
    
    Ad is for a company manufacturing fibers for hosiery ...
    
    Strictly bad taste....
    
    
    
                     Mike
    
    
    
    

    Re: .89 ..Holt ..
    
    The Advertisement begins by .." Look closely at the figures ...
    "
    
    2/3 of the picture is a closeup of legs ...  
    
    One's reaction to an ad like this is subjective ....  I find it
    demeaning and offensive ...  
    
             

    In a recent edition of Elle (as told to me)...
    
    the hair-care folks named OGGE have recently come out with a product
    I chuckled about when I went to the hair salon - it claimed
    provocatively, "We could have called it a conditioner, but it's
    so much more...that's why we called it "The Moist Penetrator"...
    
    well, now they showed an ad from OGGE, and either they renamed the
    product or they have a companion product:  The Deep Penetrator.
    
    I just hope women know what it means when their date excuses himself
    to use the facilities, and returns with a shocked look on his face
    (or an expectant one)...
    
    -Jody
    

    Yeah, they have ads in Boston magazine.  The woman they
    use in those ads is ... well ... yum.

    
    Well, the wording might be suspect, but it is a hosiery ad.
    
    You don't show earthmovers when marketing stockings...
                 

    There's one on T.V. right now for Isotoner(sp) stockings.  It show
    woman doing cartwheels, jumping over furniture etc. and always show
    the FULL lenght of the leg!!!  Really bothers me.  I know I have
    never worn stockings that made me feel like doing that!!!
    
    Another one in the "woman's magazines" (Redbook & LHJ) that REALLY
    bothers me.  It is for a cosmetic company (don't remember which
    one) and it shows Liza Minelli in several different poses all showing
    too much cleavage.  Come on now....if this is for cosmetics, all
    you need to show is her face.  
    
    
    Debbie

    Today I saw one that I really liked...it was an ad for kids
    toys and it had a little boy weilding a play vaccum cleaner
    under the raised feet of a little girl reading the WSJ.
    

    I love the current tv commercial for a particular brand of frozen
    French Fries!! A little boy with oversized eyeglasses is munching
    on the French Fries, at the kitchen table, while he is reading a 
    comic book. You can hear other children in the background, playing 
    outside. The French Fries are supposedly for the "strong silent type." 
    "Chauvinistic" maybe, but the kid is so cute I can't help liking the
    ad (cleverly designed to pull on heart strings such as mine).
    I think it's the way the little boy pushes up his glasses on his
    nose...

    re .94
    
    I actually like the Isotoner stockings ad, at least compared to
    the Hanes stockings ads.  In the Isotoner ad they sort of stick
    to the subject : our hose will make you feel good.  Like all
    advertising, it probably isn't true, but they would like you to
    believe it.  The Hanes ads, Gentlemen prefer Hanes and others,
    are trying to sell you the notion that their stockings will make
    you attractive to men.  I'd rather be sold on comfort and product
    quality, thank you.
    
    Anyone notice that nowadays not every detergent commercial has a woman
    doing the pitch?   Some of them don't have any people at all, and on
    occasion there is a competent male using the product.  TV ads are
    coming along, but slowly.
    
    			Barbara b. 

    One of the worst commercials out now can be seen on the UHF channels
    only.  It's for Nupro windows.  UGGGG!
    
    These things drive me nuts!  They are on during each commercial
    break and the woman and her husband are so bad.  I can't even think
    about it!
    
    YUCK!

    The commercial that really gets me these days are the new NISSAN
    ones where a group of about 5 yuppies are sitting around in a very
    large loft discussing the needs of their yuppie customers.
    And there is only one token Japanese in this group.
    
    First time I saw it I associated it with the myths surrounding the
    design of the Macintosh. That a buch of computer designers got together
    one day, sat down and wrote down a list of everything they ever
    thought a computer should be, and then it magically happened. 
    
                                                                 
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

>    First time I saw it I associated it with the myths surrounding the
>    design of the Macintosh. That a buch of computer designers got together
>    one day, sat down and wrote down a list of everything they ever
>    thought a computer should be, and then it magically happened. 

    You mean that's not how it happened?   8^{)

    I can't remember if anyone's entered this one yet - it seems
    inconceivable that someone hasn't - but:
    
    The "Heard it Thru the Grapevine" raisin ad. Has to be the best
    in years.
    
    Also, I used to like those surrealistic Chanel ads - the pool, the
    piano, the plane, etc..
    
    --DE
    

    Cybil Shepard is now plugging Preference Hair Color for L'Oreal,
    further evidence that Preference Blonds Have More Dumb.

    you mean Nuuuuuupro Windooooooows?  I guess they figure if you hear
    their commercial 15 times during one show you'll buy it, right?
    
    Seen the new Liza Minneli (sp?) commercials for some perfume?
    She looks like she's going out for a night in the combat zone...
    Uggh.
    
    

    STILL KILLING US SOFTLY
    
    Brattle Theater,  Sunday December 6,  1 p.m.   
    
    "examines the advertising industry's continuing promotion of distorted
    images of women... analyzes the impact of this medium on our daily
    lives and challenges us to think twice when we pass a billboard
    or turn on our televisions."                   
    
    more details 782-1056

    Yes, Cybil Shepherd does the Loreal commercials.  She also does
    an ad for beef:
    
    "Beef.  Real food for real people" (James Gardner does this too).
    
    So, what is it: everyone else in Hollywood is fake people (ahem, may be)
                                                              
    
    BTW, Cybil doesn't trust ANYONE who doesn't eat hamburgers?
    
    Cathy

    
>    BTW, Cybil doesn't trust ANYONE who doesn't eat hamburgers?
    
    And James Garner has had by-pass surgery.  A great add for beef
    if there ever was one   8^{).

    Dick

    
    Cher is doing commercials for Jack Lalaine Health Spas in the NY
    area. Didn't hear a word she said.
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

    agreed Steve. 
    
    Lee

    Digital showed some very interesting ads during the "Infinite Voyage"
    tv show last night!! I loved the one with the Twyla Tharp company
    practicing a dance routine!!

    Sheena Easton sings "STRUT" and work outs during the her commercial
    for US Swim and Fitness Health Clubs out here.  She catches the
    attention of every male who usually go to the 'frig during commercial.

    I saw the commercial for "Metropolis", the new Lauren fragrance
    for men.  Yet, they show Liza Minelli strutting her stuff all over
    the screen.  She didn't show much cleavage (to me), it was just
    the shadowy effect of the camera lens that made her look more spooky
    than glamourous.
    
    All this to sell cologne for men.

    It was selling men's cologne, not women's?  Shows you how well the
    commercial got through to me...

    The reference to the combat zone was not in regards to clevage but
    rather the shortness, bralessness, and cheapness of the outfit.
    
    But for all I know, that could be the current fashion ;-)
    

    I don't know if someone has already mentioned this one, but I love
    that Baby fresh commercial.  Where the baby is spinning around on
    the screen.  It goes:
    
    'I feel clean, dadadadadadada. Baby fresh clean, dadadadadadada."
     I guess you'd have to see it.
    
    I like the one with the dogs singing, "Lies, Lies, can't believe
    a word they say..."
    
    Also the one with the chiyauya (sp?) sitting on the record player
    spinning around.
    
    I used to hate the jordache commercials, where the guy and the girl
    used to stand around the car and disappear.  I always thought that
    commercial was for the car, but it was for jordache jeans!
    
    

    re. 114 That was a commerical for King Kuts dog food.  That's the
    reason for the Egyptian costumed "cartoon" dogs.  Instead of King
    Tut it is King Kuts, get it?
    
    Cat

	I like the one with the young red-haired girl who wants to be first
	string on her basketball team.  She gets her mother to make her
	more fried potatoe things so she can grow.  "Dad says I'm pretty
	smart for a jock."  

    How about the latest Izusu " Joe Slimeball" ad, in front of Buckingham
    Palace ? 

    
    Here's a switch!
    
    There is a billboard by the grocery store I go to that has Jim Palmer
    in nothing but an itty bitty pair of bikini underpants - I guess
    it's advertising Jockey underwear, but I really haven't noticed
    (-:.
    
    
    

    "The Boston premiere of Jean Kilbourne's 'Still Killing Us Softly'
    will be screened at the Brattle Theater in Cambridge [MA] at 1 p.m.
    on Sunday, December 6th.  The film will be followed by a reception
    and discussion with the filmmaker.  Admission will be $6 as a benefit
    for Boston N.O.W.
    
    This is a sequel to the film 'Killing Us Softly', which examines
    the advertising industry's continuing promotion of distorted images
    of women.  She analyzes the impact of this medium on our daily lives
    and challenges us to think twice when we pass a billboard or turn
    on our televisions."
     
    			- from The Brattle Theater program
    
    I've seen "Killing Us Softly" and am looking forward to this sequel.
    
    			- Dennis

    I got an advetisement in DEC mail from a switch company
    which featured a well built woman in little clothing saying
    buy our switches-write for more info and free calenendar.
    Give Laura a call at 1-800 etc. In small print at the bottom
    P.S. We have male calendars too.
    

Today, the Boston Globe revealed that Spuds Mackenzie was selected by
People magazine as one of the best dressed celebrities.  "One of the
judges, designer Oleg Cassini, said Spuds, the mascot for a beer company's
advertising campaign, was definitely the best-dressed man you've shown me."

Spuds, however, is female.

Martin.

    Saw a rather nice spot from the Church of Latter Day Saints (they've
    produced a lot of excellent public-service clips about family
    relationships): 
    
    In a huge, open office area full of desks and crowded with people
    dashing back and forth, answering phones, typing, etc., we close
    in on a woman who's at her desk, sniffling a little. Woman at the
    next desk asks if anything's wrong, first woman shrugs it off. Phone
    rings, first woman answers, looking harried; her response to the
    call is a frazzled "I just can't do that right now." (It is left
    to the imagination whether the call was from kids at home, someone
    else at work, whatever. I rather appreciate not having things spelled
    out for me...)

    Woman at the next desk is watching all this, as the first woman
    grows more and more overwrought. A man walks by and hands the first
    woman a stack of documents just as quitting time approaches; she
    tries to protest, and he says something casual about "You have the
    whole weekend, and it's important." 

    As most of the other workers leave, the first woman sits at her
    desk behind heaps of paperwork looking as if she's at the end of
    her rope. The woman at the next desk, after several sympathetic
    looks and some obvious indecision about what to do, comes over,
    picks up the phone, and orders a pizza, pausing to ask the (very
    surprised) woman whether she wants anchovies. 
    
    That's it; that's all. It's about the value of small gestures, and
    I found it quite - encouraging.
    
    -b

    	  I saw an ad that showed a well-dressed woman and a scruffy
    	looking guy.  He was looking over his shoulder and she was
    	holding up a placard with prices crossed out.  The prices
    	got lower and lower, I think the last one was under 2 bucks.
    	The woman was saying, "I can't even *give* him away".  The
    	ad was for laundry detergent I think (?!)

    I like the one where there is a frying pan sizzling and the voice
    over is "This is drugs" and the camera moves out and a raw egg is
    dropped on the frying pan and the voice over is "this is your brain
    on drugs, any questions?"
    
    That's it, plain and simple.  Oh, it gives a number to call for
    help.
    
    Cat (for a drug free America)

    Yeah. The frying pan one is just chock full of useful objective
    information, isn't it? Just like most commercials. Just like most
    "studies" on substance abuse.
    
    Chuck (for INFORMED individual responsibility in ALL behaviors)

    
    	Saw one the other day for carpets. This room is filled with
    fancy dressed business type folks and a couple of kids. One of
    the kids has a plate of chocolate cake. His cake falls out of
    his plate and towards the carpet. This one woman, (apparently
    the owner of the appartment) who is on the opposite side of the 
    room, quickly grabs a plate and makes a flying leap towards the
    falling cake and catches it in the plate before it hits the
    carpet. The rest of the party applauded her for such a fine catch.
    
    
    Dan
     

    
    re:  .124  
    
    	I second that one!  Even my teen-age daughters think
    that is a good ad and can't understand why anyuone would
    want to do that to their brain! 
    
    	My

    The new one for Nissan.  Again, more designers gathering around
    talking about what a car is designed for.  Break to home-movie type footage,
    with very LOUD sounds of car driving through country-side with two
    kids acting up in the back seat (if you didn't catch the Nissan
    logo at the beginning, you'd think the ad was for seatbelt contraints
    needed when screeching around hairpin turns).
    
    I didn't like this and neither do the analysts.  
                                
    Cathy

    I like the one for 4-C breadcrumbs ("The breadcrumb of the Davis
    family").....Dad says:
    
    
    "You called *GUAM*?!?!?!?!?"
    
    --DE
    

    Having worked part-time for the past year, I've had the opportunity
    to see a lot of day time ads.  They're mostly for personal injury
    lawyers and short-term schooling (machine repair, hairdressing,
    dog grooming, etc.).  There is one with a young woman going about
    her job as a medical assistant and her voice-over is talking about
    this particular school and how it prepared with for an exciting
    career with great pay helping doctors.  In the background is a
    good-looking young man, presumably a doctor (he's wearing a
    stethoscope), doing his job.  
    
    It used to end with them coming together to look at a clipboard.
    Only she's is actually looking up at him with adoration.  The
    voice-over says something (wish I could remember the exact words)
    about the "other" rewards of a medical career (i.e., you can catch
    yourselves a rich husband, girls).
    
    The good news is that it appears this ending has been edited out.
    The ad--which is the kind they show 10 times in a 20 minute span--now
    ends before that part.
    
    -T.