Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    What an idea....
    
    Wouldn't it be nice to come home, find the house clean, the lights
    dimmed, with the table set beautifully for two, chilled wine, slow
    music and a great meal !! with your husband/SO waiting to cater to
    cater to your every wish !! and then after dinner, while you relax
    on the couch with the rest of your wine, he clears the table and
    does the dishes, then he is there to cater to you and only you with
    105%.....
    
    It would be nice to have this happen once in a while and to also
    be the one catering too !!  Just a once in a while chance to relax
    with each other would be great !!!!

    
    Well, if I were to seriously think about this I could probably come
    up with some more meaningful overall answers, but this is what came
    to mind ...
    
    A couple of months ago I was shopping in a New Hampshire Mall with
    one of my best women friends (who is happily married).  We were
    in Karten's jewelers and we saw a 14K gold bracelet that had "I
    Love You" engraved around the bracelet in small letters, and then
    it repeated the "I Love You" all around the bracelet.  One of us
    said, "Isn't that beautiful?" and the other one said, "Yes, but
    it just isn't something you buy for yourself."  Then, we both agreed
    that *someday* we would like a man we love to give us something
    like that for a gift - and it doesn't count if you had to show it
    to him first and ask for it!
    
    I really don't think most men are aware (or do they even care?)
    how important small gestures of romance and caring are to most women.
     Not just in the first stages of romantic love, but 5 or 6 years
    down the road, too.  I would have loved it when I was married if
    just once in awhile it would have occurred to my ex-husband to bring
    home a bunch of flowers for no occasion, or to buy me my favorite
    cologne (to even *know* my favorite cologne would have been something).
    
    Lorna
    

    RE: .0
    
    Would you care to clarify your question somewhat. It seems to imply
    that the man has absolutely nothing to do, and the woman is working
    her fingers to the bone.
    
    RE: .1
    
    Have you ever considered writing romance novels???????????
    
    
    SDS

    re: .3
    Oh come on. Of course we're all working hard, 24 hours a day (or
    does it only seem like that :-)?). That makes these gestures all
    the more special. Although, as I was considering extracting .1 and
    sending it to my SO (hint hint honey!), I thought "People learn
    by example!" (gosh I'm smart). This has happened in my relationships
    before. I want something to happen, I start it. I'll get my brand
    of romance 1st (ala .1), and his brand 2nd (and who knows what that
    might be :-}!).
    	Mez

    Before I hear from Lynn, I will appologize for .3. My response was
    directed to one statement, and not the whole question. However
    "I" didn't clarify that.
    
    The statement I'm refering to, which by the way appeared in all
    the other reply's except for .4, was;
    
    Why can't men take the initiative (sp?) to do something without
    being asked.
    
    Another one, concerning a gold bracelet said, I would like him to
    buy it for me, but it DOESN'T COUNT if I have to tell him.
    
    Considering ALL the possibilities there are, will someone PLEASE
    tell me why women think men should have ESP???????? This is in
    reference more to the bracelet, or any other "surprise" gift, 
    more than helping around the house. Also, how many of you women
    out there will say something like that, and then when he does do
    it (gift), you end up returning it. I, for one, will NOT buy my
    SO a piece of jewelry without her first having seen it. That
    also goes for most clothes items.
    
    As for helping around the house, it sounds like .0 has taken on
    (by default or otherwise) the sole responsibility for doing the
    dishes. The solution, if having that sole responsibility bothers
    you, is to come to an understanding with your husband that you
    will share the responsibility. NOT say that he has a fault in
    not voluntering his services. 
    
    I personaly think that I am being VERY resonable when I say, Honey,
    If you ever need help with anything, all you have to do is ask.
    Keeping in mind of course that the household duties are shared.
    When you set ground rules like that (sharing duties), you have
    yours, and she has hers. If I need help, I ask. If she needs help,
    she can ask.
    
    I still say, regarding the statements made in .0, .1, and .2 that
    we should not be expected to have ESP.
    
    
    Steve

I don't think it's really ESP that's expected/hoped for/whatever.

I am  fortunate  to  have  someone  I  am  "involved  with"  who can be very
thoughtful -- part of it might be that we live about 600 miles apart though,
so we seem to plan ahead a little on what to do while we're together -- last
time  I  was  out there, we went to a jazz club one night and a bar that had
folk  music  the  next -- his idea -- we both enjoy both types of music, but
his preference is jazz and mine is folk.

I don't  think  that's  ESP  --  we each share a part of ourselves and enjoy
experiencing things that the other likes. It's learning about each other and
communicating  enough  in  general  to  get  ideas  about  what to initiate.
(Granted  though,  he did ask me if his idea appealed to me -- he also knows
I strongly dislike getting told what I have to do.)

- Linda

    re .5
    
    It has been my experience that ESP is not what men need but the
    ability to listen to and understand what pleases a woman, this
    is something enhances a relationship.
    
    Flame on ***
    
    	All relationships need this element.  It is not just men
    	who are sometimes lacking.
    
    Flame off ***
    
    _peggy
    

    Steve,
    
    I started this note just to find out what women would enjoy having
    a man do for them.  I could have started a note such as "What would
    MEN/WOMEN enjoy having their partners do for them".  You are more
    than welcome to put your two cents in here regarding what you want
    your wife/girlfriend do for you.  I am just as curious to find out
    what special things you would enjoy from a woman.
    
    As far as having someone write a romance novel, (.02) what is wrong with
    having a little romance "initiated" by the man?  My husband has
    made dinner numerous times (providing I LEAVE A NOTE).  What I would
    love to come home to is Flowers, Candles, Dinner without me having
    to do the planning.  However, I do appreciate the fact that he is
    willing to help me with dinner regardless of who planned it.
    
    I did make a statment that we all ASSUME we know what the other
    person wants.  I am not picking sides.  I am not stating my husband
    doesn't help with the dishes.  He does - every day.  My husband
    is very helpful, I just used that as an example.  What I meant by
    NOT HAVING TO ASK was even though it is "NOT HIS JOB" to make me
    a cup of tea or bring me breakfast in bed, it would be awfully nice
    if he would do that on occasion.  That's all.  I try to think of
    him as often as possible.  If he is working on his car or building
    the garage, I will bring him out lunch or a beer.  If I am shopping
    I will try to bring him home something - a candy apple, a nice card,
    etc.  That is where alot of men do not fully understand how nice
    it feels to receive a "little" sign of attention.  I call those
    little gestures "JUST BECAUSE" gifts.  I am sure that alot of women
    who do not show their partners how special they are to them.  (God,
    I feel like I have to justify my every statement to include both
    sexes or else someone will "Pick me apart").  All I want to know
    from ANYONE is "WHAT special thing would you like your partner to
    do for you".  How is that?  Does that make everyone happy.
    
            
        
    
    

    Talk about not having ESP, I wrote another reply to the WRONG note.
    Now, after reading .8, I'm not sure I should repeat it. However,
    for those that might have been interested, I will.
    
    RE: .6 and .7
    
    I agree with both of you whole hartedly. I was taking for granted
    (not a good phrase to use here) that we understand the likes and
    dislikes of our partners etc..However, this doesn't generaly seem
    to be the problem. Rather, it's something that the guy usually ends
    up saying something like "Gee, I never knew". Plus, when the old
    man DOES give you something (gift), who many times do you end up
    taking it back???? I, for one, will NOT buy my SO any piece of
    jewelry without her first having seen it. This also applies to some
    items of clothes. Going back to the gold bracelet example, if the
    husband/loved one "should buy it for you without having to be told",
    then there's nothing for him to listen to is there.
    
    BTW, Lynn didn't ask for any male input here, so if any of you want
    me to but out, please feel free to say so.
    
    Now, after reading .8, I have to say that I agree with you also.
    The only thing I can offer, is what I feel human nature/male/female
    upbringing. The man is brought up to be businesslike/unemotional.
    After all, he has to be the bread winner and support his family.
    The female is brought up to be ladylike/homemaker/emotional.
    Just like woman have to LEARN to be business woman, like wise
    men have to LEARN to be more sensitive to womens needs.
    
    The best thing the woman can do is to gently help TEACH, rather
    than PREACH for not having the sensitivity/common sense to do it
    in the first place.
    
    I know this STILL doesn't go along with your original question,
    but the responses indicate a common theme among women. Namely,
    "why can't men do it without being asked".

    This is a great subject.  I like the little everyday things that
    show me that my SO is thinking of me.  Like when he leaves me the
    closest parking space to the house.  Or when he does the dishes
    before I get home and start dinner (I'm generally the cook.)  Or
    when he shows up with flowers for no reason.  Or he cuts something
    out of the paper that he knows I'd want to read.  Or he goes home
    with me for Thanksgiving and is perfectly charming even though my
    parent's home is chaotic and stressful.  (Too many people in too
    little space.  Hard for an only child like him to take.)
    
    It is true that sometimes I have to remind him but I find that if
    I make a big enough fuss to thank him, that he does it again.
    
    One of my friends received the greatest, most romantic, birthday
    present that I've ever heard of.  She is a Jane Austin freak and
    anyone who knows her knows this.  Her SO made a huge effort to find
    her an original series of Jane Austin novels.  They were the most
    perfect present and told her everything she could ever want to know
    about his feelings for her.
    
    I think that is the most impressive present I've ever heard about.

    Of course, I still want more from my SO.  Like a perfect present
    like the Jane Austin novels.  I also wish he would do more things
    without my asking.  But we are working on it.
    
    Judy 

    
    Re .5, and .10, I don't think it takes ESP or even much imagination
    for a man who is shopping for a gift for a woman he is in love with
    to see a gold bracelet with "I Love You" engraved on it, and buy
    it.  Ask your SO if she thinks she would like it?
    
    I don't think the point is that women espect men to have ESP, the
    point is women would like men to have a little romance, and that
    one small gesture can mean so much to women.  I will actually go
    so far as to say (Oh God-WHY am I saying this??) that women *need*
    more romance in their lives than men do.  In general, that is. 
    There may be the odd woman here or there who doesn't need romance
    and the odd man here or there who's dying for it.
    
    Lorna
    

    Now, you see what I mean? Look at .11.
    
    Judy starts off with her entire first paragraph raving about all
    the things her SO does for her that shows her he cares, then,
    ends by saying that "she still wants more from her SO" and further
    implys that he has yet to give her the PERFECT present.
    
    What does it take ladies. Now here's a guy that from the sound
    of it, intentionally does things for his SO to show her he
    cares. He probably thinks he's doing pretty well. But, Judy still
    has to have more. Remember now, I'm assuming that he does these
    sorts of things regularly, and not each one once a year.
    
    Could it be that the husbands/SO'S that DO these things regularly
    end up spoiling their wives? That after a time, these sweet little
    things become the norm, and NEW sweet little things need to
    happen?
    
    Before you stone me, I'm not saying it isn't nice to spoil that
    special someone every now and again, but here you have someone
    who appears to have what others of you want, and she still
    isn't totally satisfied.
    
    ?????????????
    
    
    
    
    Steve

    Dear Steve !!!
    
    Re: .3 & .5 and other numerous ones
    
    Write romance novels !!  ??
    
    That description of what I would like in .1 has happened once or
    twice in my life and hopefully happen again, it isn't some fantasy
    out of a Romance Novel and I also said, In case you weren't reading
    closely enough that I also like to be the one catering, I think
    I stated clearly that I would like  it to be a 50/50 thing, nowhere
    did I say I expected to have my husband/SO to have ESP !!  All I
    want is an evening of unspoiled Romance, Is there a problem with
    that ??
    
    
    Tammy

    Thankyou Steve, I think you said that very well.
    
    I definitely know what Lorna means about the romanic gestures.
    It doesn't have to be anything big but flowers, or a card,
    or a nice phone call are greatly appreciated. An effort to
    let her/him know that you were thinking about them and wanted
    to please them.
    
    If indeed women do want this more than men then we should teach
    the men in our lives how important it is. I know it did take
    a while when we were first married for my husband to understand
    just how important brithdays, etc. were to me, since they didn't
    matter to him any way nearly as much. 
    
    Bonnie
     

    OK PEOPLE,
    
    I think we are getting off track here.  All I really wanted to know is
    "WHAT SPECIAL THINGS YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE DONE FOR YOU TO FEEL LIKE
    YOU ARE A SPECIAL PERSON", not how often it gets done nor how much it
    costs.
    
    Perhaps if I state some of the things I like we can take it from
    here:
    
    Open car doors
    Flowers for no occasion
    Taking walks in the woods
    Having my husband tell me "I am the best thing that ever happened
    			       to him"
    Inviting me to join him at a Patriots game (even if he is going with
    			       the BOYS)
    When I am "down" and feeling crummmy, try to help me get in a good
    			       mood.
    Bringing me a cup of tea at night when we are watching TV
    Comment on my hair or clothes if I look nice
    Come home with a bottle of wine.
    Surprise me when  get home with an invitation to dinner (even if
    			       it's only Papa Gino's pizza).
    
    
    Now, does that sound so hard to do.  Not really.  I also do things
    for my husband like bring him a dish of ice cream when he is watching
    TV.  I'll buy him a sweater if I see something I think he might
    like.
    
    Steve,  maybe the reason your wife returns all your gifts is because
    you just don't take the time to learn her tastes.  Either that or you
    just don't "listen" to her.  I can't tell you how often I have
    mentioned how much I like a particular cologne, a piece of jewlery, a
    sweater.  My husband will usually pick up on that.  I can't say he buys
    me anything I have mentioned but he does pay attention to my tastes.
    And I really appreciate it.  I have only returned one thing in seven
    years and that was a bathrobe - too big.  Not a bad percentage.
     
    
    

        Re .5 it's not whether you buy the right gift or not.  It's that you
        took the time to buy anything.  Certainly buying that perfect gift
        (Jane Austin Books?) adds "This person understands me" to "This
        person cares about me"  but I think any one of us, regardless of
        gender, would find receiving ONLY the last message preferable to no
        message at all.  
        
        Expecting ESP is unfair, but I don't think Lorna et.  al.  are
        asking for ESP.  Two years ago, I would not have dreamed of buying
        clothes or jewelry for Lis.  After two years of shopping with her
        (o.k.  I happen to like to shop for women's clothes which helps) I
        have a feel for her colors, textures, and styles and have actually
        picked out some of her favorite outfits.  I think what's being
        asked for is that the time and effort be taken to learn
        their/her/his individual likes and dislikes.  Did I get that
        right, Lorna? Taking that time is not something only women can do
        and it has a lot to do with romance (something I love!) 

    Some of my favorite moments:
    
    Roses every Valentine's day (the fact that I can expect them make
    them even better). 
    
    Discussion of how great our relationship is going every monthiversary.
    
    Leaving the garage for me on a snowy night.
    
    Making the fire for the evening (I failed that in Girl Scouts).
    
    Watching him cuddling the cats (they match!).
    
    Thanking me for making dinner.
    
    Making dinner. (these two mean I get a special moment almost every
    night)
    
    Giving me something practical, because I would NEVER think of buying
    myself anything that useable.
    
    Going all the way to Canada to see Shakespeare.
    
    Telling me the truth when I ask for it.

    I can see that a fatal mistake has been made.  This
    conversation needs to be moved to MENNOTES, to reach
    the appropriate audience!  I would generalize that
    the men who read WOMANNOTES are already sensitive to
    the needs of the woman (or women) in their lives.
    
    And I would bet that dozens of women will find, under
    the Christmas tree this year, a gold bracelet with
    "I love you" enscribed a zillion times.  
    
    I'll tell you what, if it looks like the man in my life
    is not going to buy one for me, I will buy one for myself,
    wrap it n the most ornate fashion possible, and sign the
    card "From someone who loves you."  

    My list:

    1. Bringing me flowers (only first 'cause he did it recently).
    2. Telling me I'm beautiful (especially when I dress up, 'cause I
	need the encouragement - I hate to dress up).
    3. Bringing in the groceries on cold or rainy nights.
    4. Scraping the ice off my car if he leaves first.
    5. Rolling over and holding me before getting up in the morning!!!

    The things he doesn't do that I wish he'd do are mostly things I
    hate to do (and he does too, so we have to share).

    By the way, I do all of the same things for him, even flowers.  I
    think men really do like to get flowers, but never ask for them
    because society has told men that they're not manly.

    ...Karen

    OK, here is what I know my wife likes. (I can tell by the grin on
    her face....)
    
    1.	Surprises. (Big or small, that doesn't matter.)
    2.  Breakfast in bed. Especially in winter, as we have no heating
    	in our kitchen. (We live in an old Parisian appartment)
    3.	She adores it when I wait for her downstairs, open the door
    	her car, and then attempt to park it for her. (Not an easy task
    	in an over-crowded parking-lot-less Paris...) I don't do it
    	every day, but when I do, she is over the moon.
    4.	Basically, all "little" things, they don't have to be expensive
    	(Like an "I LOVE YOU" gold bracelet), but if they show that
    	I made an effort to please her....
    
    By  the way, she is forever attempting to please me too... That
    is probably why we have such a good relationship.
    
    			Philippe.
                                                     
    P.S. Can someone tell me what an SO is ? I never heard the word
    before...

    I hate to do this but here I am again.
    
    Mick Jagger says it so well, "You can't always get what you want......
    but if you try sometimes, you just might find ...... you get what
    you need........
    
    One thing I have found to be universal about women...... they are
    much quicker to complain about what they, want/need/like when not
    receiving it.
    Then they are to simply ask for it up front.
    

    Another reply, with appologies to Mary Ellen.
    
    Before you ladies begin to think that I'm an insensitive clod
    (which I fear may be too late), allow me one final defense.
    
    I truly love to make my SO happy. I get a great deal of pleasure
    from seeing her happy. I sometimes wish I could do more. But,
    being the human being that I am, I some times fall short of that
    goal. Also, being the human beings that we ALL are, I think we
    tend to shy away from doing things that we feel are not
    appreciated.
    
    EXAMPLE...My x-wife always used to ask me, after she got dressed
    in the morning how she looked. Having good taste in clothes she
    always looked good, and I told her so. I always said I liked the
    outfit, or she looked really good. Then she would promptly say,
    "Na, I don't like it", and go change her clothes. After awhile,
    I stopped saying anything. Why, because I feel that If you don't
    value (or appreciate) my opinion, don't ask for it. Ofcourse,
    you all know what happened next. After a couple of months, I started
    getting "You never tell me I look nice anymore". Which, brings
    me to the ONLY point I was trying to make here.
    
    If you feel you want more from your relationship, are you allowing
    the atmosphere to exist for that to happen, or are you PREACHING
    instead of TEACHING.
    
    
    Steve

    re: snickr::ssmith
    
    wanna see my nice guy certificate
    
    

    
    Well, needless to say, I'm certainly sorry I ever mentioned the
    gold bracelet with "I Love You" inscribed on it!!!  I only meant
    that to me it's my idea of a perfect gift, and something I would
    be delighted with.  But, maybe I have very singular taste in braclets.
     I thought it was very pretty (only $125.) but please don't rush
    out and buy it for anyone you love, since my taste seldom reflects
    that of the majority.  
    
    I do consider myself to be someone to whom small, romantic gestures
    mean a lot.  Reading over the lists other people made, I can't help
    but reflect that my  mother has done more "romantic" things for
    me than any of the men I've ever known - sending me flowers, scraping
    ice off my car, bringing me breakfast in bed.  Why can't I meet
    a man like my Mom, only not as fat as her?
    
    Lorna
    

    re .23 SO means significant other (see some of the answers to 112
    from about .15 on) it is used instead of boyfriend/girlfriend,
    lover, roommate, fiancee etc. to describe a person of the opposite sex
    that one is very involved with but (usually) not married to. Personally
    I always liked Poosslq but it never caught on. 
    
    re .24 Perhaps what you are talking about is the Prince charming
    syndrome. That we sometimes have an "agenda" that isn't shared with
    our partner. Communications have got to be a part of any successful
    relationship. If we find ourselves on the giving or receiveing end
    of failed expectations then it is our responsibility to improve
    communications to prevent it from happening again.

    re .25 To me "how do I look" also means, is my slip showing, do
    these colors match, do I look ok in this out fit, etc." so an answer
    of nice means that I have no obvious flaws in my appearance. This
    is one area where asking a person what they expect you to comment
    on when they ask how they look, and frankly complaining when they
    go change after you've said "nice" could improve the imformation
    flow and the mutual expectations.
    
    Bonnie

Being ever-thankful for REPLY/LAST and quick-thinking (be still my pounding
heart!!), I'd like to share some love with you...

Two of the things I "need" most from my fiance (Bill, for short :-)) are to
know I'm special to him, and for us to share our lives.

From the start, Bill has made me feel special.  On our first date, we knocked
off a couple of the previously mentioned items: we walked in the woods for a
couple of hours and he made me dinner.  A month later, for Valentine's day,
he gave me a dozen roses (they're beautiful even if you *are* allergic to
them!) and a pair of earrings that I couldn't have chosen better myself (it
shows he was very aware of my tastes and what I like even then).

Skipping ahead a few months :-), I think *I* received the "perfect birthday
present", and I didn't even have to ask for it!  It started out with Bill
taking the time to have lunch with me down in Marlboro (he works at ZKO, so
it's about a 45-minute drive one way).  He personally delivered flowers to
me at work that afternoon (he dropped them off at the receptionist because
the florist didn't deliver after 1pm, and then disappeared).  When I got
home from work, he had lined the driveway (about 500 ft) with balloons, which
of course I had to remove in order to drive up!  After we finished our candle-
lit dinner, he gave me a pair of diamond earrings, built me a fire, and
asked me to marry him.  Although we had discussed the possibility, and knew it
would happen soon, I never told him my dream was for him to propose on my
birthday by the fire.  So, my best birthday present was Bill :-), with the
rest being a wonderful prelude.  And I felt really special because of all the
effort he had put into the choreography of the entire day.

As far as sharing goes, I could go on and on.  The closeness we feel after
sharing our inner feelings is unsurpassable.  The most recent example was
sharing with a friend in the birth of her son, although it did screw up most
of our Thanksgiving weekend! :-)  We felt the afterglow for several days.
Talking for hours after saying "good night" usually results in a similar kind
of closeness, because only very emotional topics are urgent enough to discuss
that late at night.

I guess I've made my point, and then some. :-)  Feeling special and feeling
close are so important.

Jill

    RE: .29
    
    You mentioned your X. If your remarried, you husband is a very
    lucky man. If your not, some man is going to be. In either case,
    your X is a fool to have lost you.
    
    Steve

    My husband doesn't do traditional "romantic" gestures very often
    (flowers, etc.) but since I got pregnant about 8 months ago, he's
    done the Jane Fonda Pregnancy workout with me, does other pre-natal
    exercises with me, accompanies me on a walk at least once a week,
    asks more questions in childbirth class than anyone else, tries to 
    get me to relax (no mean feat) when I'm totally exhausted and grumpy, 
    and tells me I'm sexy when I'm feeling like the fattest pregnant woman 
    around.  But he doesn't treat me like I'm helpless and disabled
    like lots of people seem to treat pregnant women.  I'll take all
    this over all the flowers in New England.  I feel blessed that this
    man is the father of my child.
    
    SHL
      

    Ok. I won't stir things up anymore. There's only been one 
    or two responses all day.
    
    Things I like to do for my future wife:
    
    * Help carry in the groceries.
    * Clean off her car after a snow storm
    * It's her cat, but I clean the litter box
    * Go out of my way to be quiet if she wants to sleep in in the morning
    * Do the dishes even though it isn't my turn.
    * Run to the store late at night if she needs something
    * Snuggle in bed and watch the tube
    * Take care of HER car
    * Surprise her by picking things up she has on layaway

    Gee, SNICKR::SSMITH, ya wanna get married!!???
    
    These are exactly the kinds of things that to me show someone your
    thinking of them.
    
    They are definitely on my list of things I would like my SO to do.
    
    BTW, he does do most of them.
    
    cin
    

    re: .29:
    
    Hurrah for sharing!  
    
    I also think that the things we share are the most special, like
    when we're both home with the flu, and we do a jigsaw puzzle together,
    and laugh at red noses and mountains of kleenex...
    
    Or when I come home from work and find that he has drawn a cute
    funny picture and left it on the table...
    
    Or a silly note in the sandwich he's made for my lunch...
    
    Or when I see a model-perfect woman walking down the street, and
    he says, "too skinny!" :-)
    
    What does he like for me to do for him?  Stupid toy robots from
    the silly gumball machines in the supermarkets...bringing liverwurst
    home with the groceries (yuccho, I hate liverwurst!)...knitting
    a scale-model Dr. Who scarf for his stuffed toy lion...talking to
    his mother on the phone for half an hour, and pretending he's not
    home when I know he's not in the mood to talk to ANYONE...
    

    Women need to feel that they are interesting to their men.
    
    When a guy is chasing down a new honey he trips all over himself
    showing her how interesting she is to him.  He listens to what she
    says and when he surprises her with, say, dinner, he knows where
    she would like to go.  ESP?  No.  He really LOOKS at her and notices
    that she looks great in blue and when he surprises her with, say,
    a sweater, it's blue.  ESP?  No, INTEREST!
                                    
    When she's been with him for awhile and her favorite color has changed
    to red, she is going to be crushed when he buys her a blue sweater.
    Don't you guys see why????
    
    If you really feel, "Hell, I bought you a gift, what MORE do you
    women want?!" then I feel bad for your SO.
    
    One of the sweetest things in my memory was a trip to an ice-cream
    stand.  I love soft chocolate ice-cream dipped in chocolate, and
    one of my particular idiot-synchracies is that I love to bite the
    top off before the chocolate dip has dried and hardened.  I will
    never forget the sight of my then SO running back to the car to
    get my cone to me before it dried!  I didn't ask him to, and I cer-
    tainly didn't expect it.  That was almost 8 years ago and he has 
    since married and moved away but I will never forget his hair flying, 
    running across that parking lot because he KNEW and he CARED.
    
    In a more general vein - my mother used to tell me that if you don't
    know what to get someone for Christmas it's because you haven't
    listened to them at all that year!
    
    Sandy

    re .30:
    
    point of semantics:
    
    > SO means significant other (...) it is used instead of 
    > boyfriend/girlfriend, lover, roommate, fiancee etc. to describe 
    > a person of the opposite sex that one is very involved with but 
    > (usually) not married to. 
      
    An SO is not ALWAYS of the "opposite" sex.
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

                                                        
    "Out of all the women in this city..."
    
    "You're the only woman in this city..."
    
    				Ed McBain
    				"Eight Black Horses"
    
    	Why do I quote a write of police procedurals?  Because I think
    he's talking about exactly what .37 is talking about, and rather
    suddenly I understand some things a little better.  I think .37
    targets the common ground very precisely...
    
    DFW

    RE: .37
    
    I have to agree with 99% of what you say. I'm sure that is the
    case most of the time. However I would like to make a couple
    of comments.
    
    Last Christmas, my sweety mentioned a dozen times if she mentioned
    it once, that she really liked a certain kind of perfume. Should
    I have taken the hint? YES. Did I take the hint? YES. I went
    considerable out of my way to buy it, because it wasn't available
    locally. Well, here we are almost a year to the day later, and
    at least 99% of the perfume still remains. Being an optimist, I
    consider this to be a REALLY good deal. At this rate, It should
    last another 10 years. On the other hand.......................
    
    This example really doesn't bother me at all. I'm just being picky
    for the sake of argument. My point, however, is that were not
    all self serving males that IGNORE, TAKE NO INTEREST IN, and DON'T
    LISTEN  to our wives/whatever's.
    
    Steve
    

    RE; .31
    
    Jill, does he have any brothers????
    
    
    ;^)  ;^)  ;^)  ;^)
    
    
    -nancy

    What do women want from their SO? Well, I would love it if he just
    once remembered my birthday. I made him read the notes here as a
    hint. But then, he's so nice sometimes that maybe I find birthdays
    not so important. 
    
    One of the nicest things Ray ever did for me was one day I had to
    drive to work with chains on my car. I hate chains and will not
    touch them. Ray put them on in the morning and then when the snow
    had melted came to work and took them off my car so I would not
    have to remove them myself. He didn't tell me he would do this,
    they were just off when I left work. This was especially nice since
    I had *crabbed* at him all morning about how I hated the chains
    and I had wanted to take my chances driving without them. 
    
    I guess what I like from a man is someone who loves me enough to
    do something nice for me even when I'm not being *nice* myself.
    
    Liesl 

    Lynn mentioned this was a topic for what you would like your SO
    to do for you whether you are male/female....so after reading this
    whole file I saw SSMITH making comments about what females want
    and even what he would do for his SO but c'mon Steve what would
    you like your SO to do FOR YOU?  I'm curious reading all the replies!
    
    i know curiousity killed the cat but satisfaction brought him back....
    
    bs

    SSMITH,
    
    Please don't fret about the slow disappearance of the perfume.
    I still have the original bottles of my two favorite perfumes.
    I only wear perfume for dress-up, and I don't always remember
    it then.  Also, perfume doses are best measured in cubic
    millimeters.  (I use a q-tip dampened in perfume as my applicator.)
    
    							Ann B.

    I knew one of these day's my big mouth was going to get me into
    trouble. Ok, here goes. What do I like to receive from my sweety.
    
    Well, first of all, if someone were to look at who does what for
    whom, I'd loose. She does far more for me than I do for her. Boy,
    do I feel like a CAD. It's always nice and it's always appreciated
    when she does little things for me. Like, if I'm being a couch potato,
    she'll ask me if I want a cup of coffee, or she'll just walk in
    with a bowl that has a warm, freshly baked brownie with whipped
    cream on it. The other day, she bought me two shirts because I
    NEED them. Of course us guys don't THINK we need them right? When
    she comes home from shopping, she always has something for me
    that she knows I like. Special deserts etc.
    
    BUT, speaking from my own point of view, the biggest thing she
    could give me is UNDERSTANDING. When I'm dealing with problems,
    I need her support, not for her to become part of the problem.
    I'm not saying she does this all the time, but it does happen.
    If I'm upset for some reason, I like to know she's there but
    at the same time, have her allowing me my space.
    
    I'll continue this later. Things are getting busy around here.
    
    Steve

Slightly off topic, but in some ways very much on.

There is  a  psychological test called the Myers-Briggs Personality Test, or
something very close to that (I could find out).  

Anyway, the  minister  at  my parents church uses it in marriage counseling,
and  to  help  the  elders  understand  each other. Both my parents are very
active,  so  our  whole  family  took it when I was in high-school. My older
brother  and I could often be good friends, but on many occassions basically
thought  the  other  was  crazy.  After  taking  this, we understood why. It
pointed out many of the differences in our personalities, etc etc.

Basically Myers  and  Briggs  argue that all personalities fit into 16 basic
personalities  (although one person won't necessarily stay in one throughout
his/her  life). They have four categories and rank you on a scale, .... they
have  a large battery of questions they use to determine it, and from what I
know, is well-respected.

Part of  understanding a "partner" is understanding that not everyone thinks
alike. (My grandmother thinks I'm crazy because I really need to be alone at
times.  I tried to explain, but .... I guess sometimes you just have to grin
and bear it.)

Anyway, it might be something to look into if you seem to be having problems
communicating/understanding someone you'd really like to keep close.

    re: .29
    I envy the memory, it's one to remember.  It's beautiful!  I was
    chuckleing over it for so long that people around my desk were 
    asking what was up.  Thanks for sharing that!
    
    re: .44
     I agree, the hugs are the best way to show someone cares.  I love
    spontanious (sp??) hugs, hugs show that no matter what, theres that
    waiting for me.  I like conversations that could last for hours
    with cuddling in the middle.  I like getting flowers but wouldn't
    mind not getting them if I got the hug.
    Not having a present SO (boyfriend/husband) I call my daughter my
    SO, she likes to draw me special pictures and sneaks them in my
    purse so I find it sometime during the day, and once she deposited
    her favorite Barbie with a note on it that said "in case you get
    stressed today, take Barbie for a walk"  I almost hurt myself 
    laughing and crying thinking how well my little person knows me.
    Ahhh, memories.  

    Vivian
    

    I've noticed a distressing pattern in this notes file:  a woman
    starts a topic, some women and men start responding to the topic,
    then a man starts questioning the legitimacy of the topic in the
    first place (eg., how dare you expect romantic surprises from a
    man; you must not be communicating), and everyone else ends up
    defending the topic or what they meant they said.   
    
    I don't want to fan the fires.  Can't we just stick to the topic;
    if you don't think a particular topic is worthwhile, don't participate.
    There are lots of other topics.
    
    Anyway...
    
    Things my husband does for me that I appreciate...
    
    		When I was pregnant, he kept running out late at 
    		night to replenish my ice cream supply for me.
    
    		He sometimes wears ties just to look nice for me,
    		because I like him in ties, even though he hates
    		them.
    
    		He fills up the windshield washer stuff in my car
    		because I never remember to.
    
    		He brings me breakfast in bed sometimes.
    
    I could go on and on.  
    
    Things I like to do for him...
    
    		I send him flowers.  The first time I was going
    		to send them to his office, I hesitated because
    		I was afraid the guys he worked with would give
    		him "grief."  Instead, they LOVED it and now all
    		their SOs send THEM flowers sometimes.
    
    		When I go on a business trip, I leave him little
    		notes, designed to make him smile, in various 
    		places that he'll discover while I'm gone.
    
    		On trash day, I sneak out of bed without waking
    		him and bring the trash out, which he hates to do.
    		(But if hears me, he jumps out of bed and does it
    		anyway.)
    
    -Tracy
    
                
               

    Steven_D:
    
    	Who are the 'we' you reference in all your replies?  Are you
    writing for more than one person?
    
    Douglas

    Well, after reading some of these notes I can see that there's a
    lot of you out there with the same misunderstandings.  After 
    making a lot of mistakes I finally started to see the light.  I
    began doing a lot of reading and studing on subject of men and 
    women living together and the problems that come up.  It has been
    most interesting, I've been recommending a book to people who have
    problems with marriage and the response has been good.  I would
    like to recommend it you.
    The name of the book is "THE JOY OF COMMITTED LOVE" by Gary Smalley
    it is a Zondervan publication.  This book can also be found in
    paperback under the title of "IF HE ONLY KNEW" for the husband or
    SO and "FOR BETTER OR FOR BEST" for the wife or SO, both by the
    same author.
    It would be interesting to see if any of you pick this book up and
    what kind of comments it would bring, then again there might already
    be file on books?  This book will change the way you look at things...
    
    
         Bob                                                      

    Isn't Zondervan a conservative Christian publishing house?  Is the
    book representative of that perspective on things?
    
    Holly

    My SO (now ex) always used to make me feel special just by the way
    he talked to me. He would act as if I was the only person on earth.
    I don't mean that he would ignore everyone else but he knows I am
    a special......
    
    he also sent me flowers the day after we had our first major argument
    and then he proceeded to send one dozen red balloons in the shape
    of hearts!
    
    Plus he always used to hold my hand when he could and whisper things
    in my ear when his mom was around that would make me blush!
    
    Sunshine